Fat Acceptance

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  • SweetSammie
    SweetSammie Posts: 391 Member
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    Grrr. Internet issues ate this post, so I am trying again.

    The Fat Acceptance movement is more than the NAAFA. There is a community of people, bloggers, tumblr, with various focuses, operating at various levels of extreme (as in with many communities... animal rights, environmental rights). Many of those blogs offer a community and ideas that are necessary I think valuable, whether or not you ascribe to every tenet of NAAFA. Some of the ones I frequent are:
    http://www.fatnutritionist.com/
    http://thefeedingdoctor.com/
    http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/
    http://www.lindabacon.org/
    http://ed-bites.blogspot.com/
    http://www.flickr.com/groups/1160018@N21/pool/
    http://haescommunity.org/search_registry.php
    http://www.flickr.com/groups/athletesateverysize/pool/

    AND the Fatshion movement is great. It gives resources on where to find clothing of various sizes, and affirms that you can look great even if you aren't built like a supermodel.

    www.pearlslaceandruffles.com/
    http://manolobig.com/

    Through one of those blogs, I found www.eshakti.com/default.aspx an online store where you can buy affordable custom made clothing... which is great for anyone who is hard to fit. Short? Tall? Overweight? Pear shaped? A Combination? Check it out. I intend to buy my pear-shaped self a dress there when I reach my goal. (IF I reach my goal, because if I eat, I exercise and I stop losing, I'll adjust my macros, I'll change my workouts, I'll go to the Dr., but I will not starve myself or disengage from social activities simply to lose weight).
  • becoming_a_new_me
    becoming_a_new_me Posts: 1,860 Member
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    Fat acceptance is unnacceptable.

    Ignorance and hate are unacceptable.

    You agree with what's provided in the OP? Did you even read the link?
    Yes. Umeboshi, I'd love to hear your take on the official positions of the FA movement. We can all agree that hate and ignorance are awful, but do you really agree with the official FA stance? If you haven't read the link in the OP, you should. Fat people should be accepted and treated as human beings, but the positions stated here are full of holes and bad for people on a whole:

    http://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/education/faq.html (this is the link from the OP)

    I agree with the official stance, though I'm not sure why it matters to you.

    Why do you always go on the offensive? It is a valid question, if you pose a specific stance, how about you back that up with a detailed opinion rather than snippy answers? I think you are a very intelligent young lady, but that get hidden behind your poor additude. I too am curious about which part of the FA movement you agree with, and why? Not because I want to attack you, but because I am open to your opinion.
  • Umeboshi
    Umeboshi Posts: 1,637 Member
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    Grrr. Internet issues ate this post, so I am trying again.

    The Fat Acceptance movement is more than the NAAFA. There is a community of people, bloggers, tumblr, with various focuses, operating at various levels of extreme (as in with many communities... animal rights, environmental rights). Many of those blogs offer a community and ideas that are necessary I think valuable, whether or not you ascribe to every tenet of NAAFA. Some of the ones I still frequent are:
    http://www.fatnutritionist.com/
    http://thefeedingdoctor.com/
    http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/
    http://www.lindabacon.org/
    http://ed-bites.blogspot.com/
    http://www.flickr.com/groups/1160018@N21/pool/
    http://haescommunity.org/search_registry.php
    http://www.flickr.com/groups/athletesateverysize/pool/

    AND the Fatshion movement is great. It gives resources on where to find clothing of various sizes, and affirms that you can look great even if you aren't built like a supermodel.

    www.pearlslaceandruffles.com/
    http://manolobig.com/

    Through one of those blogs, I found www.eshakti.com/default.aspx an online store where you can buy affordable custom made clothing... which is great for anyone who is hard to fit. Short? Tall? Overweight? Pear shaped? A Combination? Check it out. I intend to buy my pear-shaped self a dress there when I reach my goal. (IF I reach my goal, because if I eat, I exercise and I stop losing, I'll adjust my macros, I'll change my workouts, I'll go to the Dr., but I will not starve myself or disengage from social activities simply to lose weight).

    Gotta add http://www.cupcakesclothes.com/ to the fatshion list! Georgina is a total doll.
  • StarkLark
    StarkLark Posts: 476 Member
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    Fat acceptance is unnacceptable.

    Ignorance and hate are unacceptable.

    You agree with what's provided in the OP? Did you even read the link?
    Yes. Umeboshi, I'd love to hear your take on the official positions of the FA movement. We can all agree that hate and ignorance are awful, but do you really agree with the official FA stance? If you haven't read the link in the OP, you should. Fat people should be accepted and treated as human beings, but the positions stated here are full of holes and bad for people on a whole:

    http://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/education/faq.html (this is the link from the OP)

    I agree with the official stance, though I'm not sure why it matters to you.
    I was just hoping you were confused, that's all. You said that hate and ignorance are unacceptable, and I'm not sure anyone in this thread has disagreed. But to quote myself (since you ignored it the first time around):
    From what I read on the link provided by the OP the fat acceptance movement is not at all about fighting ignorance and hate. In most cases, it's about changing society to support the unhealthy choices by people who refuse to change.

    Hate and ignorance are things that we should all rally against. But it seems to me those ideals are far removed from the official FA positions.
    If you disagree please explain how the official FA position fights hate and ignorance. I'm just trying to figure out why you seem to support FA but don't actually reiterate any of the points they promote.
  • Umeboshi
    Umeboshi Posts: 1,637 Member
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    I was just hoping you were confused, that's all. You said that hate and ignorance are unacceptable, and I'm not sure anyone in this thread has disagreed. But to quote myself (since you ignored it the first time around):
    From what I read on the link provided by the OP the fat acceptance movement is not at all about fighting ignorance and hate. In most cases, it's about changing society to support the unhealthy choices by people who refuse to change.

    Hate and ignorance are things that we should all rally against. But it seems to me those ideals are far removed from the official FA positions.
    If you disagree please explain how the official FA position fights hate and ignorance. I'm just trying to figure out why you seem to support FA but don't actually reiterate any of the points they promote.

    As SSerum stated, FA is a large movement made up of many groups. NAAFA happens to focus on the importance of anti-discrimination legislation. I agree with NAAFA. I agree with many other individuals and FA groups.

    In the link you keep posting (which doesn't single-handedly represent everthing FA stands for), NAAFA states: "Weight bias contributes to negative emotional, social, economic, and physical health issues for fat people. It is a pervasive form of discrimination, being faced by people every day of their lives.". This is in reference to the everday treatment of fat people, not just legislation against workplace and other discrimination. Obviously a standpoint against the ignorance and hate thrown at fat people on a constant basis.

    I'm assuming NAAFA is focusing on legislation because that is a much more attainable and closer goal as far as getting some form of protection for fat people. Changing society's BS is a difficult process that will take a lot longer, but legislation is a very good way to start. MANY movements regarding civil rights, including LGBT movements, have focused first and foremost on legislation. That's why LGBT people are pushing so hard for the Employment Non Discrimination Act (ENDA), because legislation can provide protection until society catches up to the necessary level of basic human decency.

    To quote NAAFA, "In real world situations, education alone has never been enough to stop discrimination of any kind. It takes advocacy and legislation to create an inclusive environment where all sizes of people are respected and valued."
  • StarkLark
    StarkLark Posts: 476 Member
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    Grrr. Internet issues ate this post, so I am trying again.

    The Fat Acceptance movement is more than the NAAFA. There is a community of people, bloggers, tumblr, with various focuses, operating at various levels of extreme (as in with many communities... animal rights, environmental rights). Many of those blogs offer a community and ideas that are necessary I think valuable, whether or not you ascribe to every tenet of NAAFA. Some of the ones I frequent are:
    http://www.fatnutritionist.com/
    http://thefeedingdoctor.com/
    http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/
    http://www.lindabacon.org/
    http://ed-bites.blogspot.com/
    http://www.flickr.com/groups/1160018@N21/pool/
    http://haescommunity.org/search_registry.php
    http://www.flickr.com/groups/athletesateverysize/pool/

    AND the Fatshion movement is great. It gives resources on where to find clothing of various sizes, and affirms that you can look great even if you aren't built like a supermodel.

    www.pearlslaceandruffles.com/
    http://manolobig.com/

    Through one of those blogs, I found www.eshakti.com/default.aspx an online store where you can buy affordable custom made clothing... which is great for anyone who is hard to fit. Short? Tall? Overweight? Pear shaped? A Combination? Check it out. I intend to buy my pear-shaped self a dress there when I reach my goal. (IF I reach my goal, because if I eat, I exercise and I stop losing, I'll adjust my macros, I'll change my workouts, I'll go to the Dr., but I will not starve myself or disengage from social activities simply to lose weight).
    Fair enough. I've got absolutely no problem with consumer options that make life easier for obese people. But please hear me out on this. The FA link provided by the OP is the most visible proponent for the term and idea you are defending. This entire thread was started to discuss the views propagated on http://www.naafaonline.com. THAT'S the bottom line. I think those views are bogus, but no one who disagrees wants to defend the views on that site.

    If you don't agree with naafaonline.com, but you want to define "fat acceptance" as a general view that overweight people should not be treated inhumanely, then SPEAK UP and do your best to take back the phrase.
  • StarkLark
    StarkLark Posts: 476 Member
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    In the link you keep posting (which doesn't single-handedly represent everthing FA stands for), NAAFA states: "Weight bias contributes to negative emotional, social, economic, and physical health issues for fat people. It is a pervasive form of discrimination, being faced by people every day of their lives.". This is in reference to the everday treatment of fat people, not just legislation against workplace and other discrimination.
    I've finally found the rub... I believe for the vast majority of people, being fat is a choice. I also think that for most people, being fat is unhealthy. I think it is wrong to protect people from a personal decision that is unhealthy. Bottom line, when it comes down to it, I side on personal choice, not legislation. NAAFA is THE most visible proponent of "your" cause. And they are full of it.
  • StarkLark
    StarkLark Posts: 476 Member
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    Fat acceptance is unnacceptable.

    Ignorance and hate are unacceptable.

    Your old posts are hilarious & I'm glad I looked cause now I know not to carry on responding to you. You are a gross troll. A bad one I might add.
    Ah, perhaps I should have saved myself the time and effort. But whatever, tomorrow is my sleep in day :drinker:
  • becoming_a_new_me
    becoming_a_new_me Posts: 1,860 Member
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    In the link you keep posting (which doesn't single-handedly represent everthing FA stands for), NAAFA states: "Weight bias contributes to negative emotional, social, economic, and physical health issues for fat people. It is a pervasive form of discrimination, being faced by people every day of their lives.". This is in reference to the everday treatment of fat people, not just legislation against workplace and other discrimination.
    I've finally found the rub... I believe for the vast majority of people, being fat is a choice. I also think that for most people, being fat is unhealthy. I think it is wrong to protect people from a personal decision that is unhealthy. Bottom line, when it comes down to it, I side on personal choice, not legislation. NAAFA is THE most visible proponent of "your" cause. And they are full of it.

    You and I seem to have very similar viewpoints. When I was 450#, I did not expect "special treatment". I did however want to be treated like a human. Even now at 260#, people who do not know my history judge me and treat me like crap. I don't let it happen for very long any more because I am confident enough to voice my opinion. Just today at the Gym, I had a guy make a snide comment about me being too fat to be there. I can tell you what, not only did he get an earful, but I reported him to the facility and he was asked to leave for the day and put on warning. No one should have to be judged harshly without knowing the circumstances, but in my opinion, this advocacy group is pushing the envelope. Next, they'll be demanding special parking spots for weight-challenged individuals.
  • SweetSammie
    SweetSammie Posts: 391 Member
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    As with other movements that I participate in on some level (animal rights and rescue, women's rights), groups I maintain membership to NEA (teacher's union), I DO support the overall message AND mission, while not necessarily every single objective, statement or faction. I COULD go through and copy and paste what I do and do not agree with, but some things I would have to sit and really weigh deeply (and its 2:22 a.m. here, and I am going on a 4 mile hike tomorrow).

    More than that, I think the community and resources offered are PRICELESS. I also, frankly, and personally grateful for NAAFA, since they spawned Shapely Prose, The Fat Nutritionist, Ed BItes and all of the other blogs that brought me to the place I am at today.

    Shaming people makes them ashamed, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive. I think that Fat Acceptance wouldn't exist if there wasn't a problem. I think our own bodies are the one place where we should have unbridled control. To try to take that away is ... dangerous.

    As for the health insurance debate, I find it interesting that people always want to point out the expenses of obesity (which are debatable), but what about people who choose to have 8 children?
    Or people who work out until their knees crumble?
    Or people who drink alcohol until they have cirrhosis?
    Or people who starve until they have osteopenia?
    Drink sodas until they have Kidney stones?
    Or partake in extreme sports or ride motorcycles and end up catastrophically injured...
    ALL BY THEIR CHOICE.
    If there are to be exclusions (which I don't agree with), why wouldn't they be determined by people who actually HAVE medical problems, instead of all obese people, healthy or not? 185 lbs, I was obese by .2 or .3 points on the BMI scale.. should I really have LOST my insurance.. .or pay more than someone that eats fast food every day, is a non-compliant diabetic and has high blood pressure but is .3 points below me in BMI?
    I have no health problems (other than a rare congenital condition that causes no problems until pregnancy) (even that pesky osteopenia is reversed).
    Speaking of, how many post-partum women would edge into the obese BMI briefly and lose their insurance?
    Think.
  • Umeboshi
    Umeboshi Posts: 1,637 Member
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    You and I seem to have very similar viewpoints. When I was 450#, I did not expect "special treatment". I did however want to be treated like a human. Even now at 260#, people who do not know my history judge me and treat me like crap. I don't let it happen for very long any more because I am confident enough to voice my opinion. Just today at the Gym, I had a guy make a snide comment about me being too fat to be there. I can tell you what, not only did he get an earful, but I reported him to the facility and he was asked to leave for the day and put on warning. No one should have to be judged harshly without knowing the circumstances, but in my opinion, this advocacy group is pushing the envelope. Next, they'll be demanding special parking spots for weight-challenged individuals.

    Slippery slope fallacy.

    The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

    Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
    Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.

    This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.

    According to NAAFA:
    "Discrimination towards fat people in the workplace, education system, and healthcare system has been clearly documented and is growing rapidly. Weight discrimination was reported by 7% of US adults in 1995-96, and almost doubled to 12% by 2006.

    To improve working conditions, healthcare, and overall quality of life for millions of Americans, weight must be added to the list of categories covered in anti-discrimination laws. This can be accomplished on a federal, state, or local level"

    Obviously, the main issues to NAAFA are workplace discrimination, discrimination in schools, and the way fat patients are often given sub-par care by doctors. Laws protecting other groups from these same issues are already in place, but I've never seen anyone lobbying for a gay-only parking spot.
  • sleepytexan
    sleepytexan Posts: 3,138 Member
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    bludger acceptance.
  • becoming_a_new_me
    becoming_a_new_me Posts: 1,860 Member
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    You and I seem to have very similar viewpoints. When I was 450#, I did not expect "special treatment". I did however want to be treated like a human. Even now at 260#, people who do not know my history judge me and treat me like crap. I don't let it happen for very long any more because I am confident enough to voice my opinion. Just today at the Gym, I had a guy make a snide comment about me being too fat to be there. I can tell you what, not only did he get an earful, but I reported him to the facility and he was asked to leave for the day and put on warning. No one should have to be judged harshly without knowing the circumstances, but in my opinion, this advocacy group is pushing the envelope. Next, they'll be demanding special parking spots for weight-challenged individuals.

    Slippery slope fallacy.

    The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

    Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
    Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.

    This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.

    According to NAAFA:
    "Discrimination towards fat people in the workplace, education system, and healthcare system has been clearly documented and is growing rapidly. Weight discrimination was reported by 7% of US adults in 1995-96, and almost doubled to 12% by 2006.

    To improve working conditions, healthcare, and overall quality of life for millions of Americans, weight must be added to the list of categories covered in anti-discrimination laws. This can be accomplished on a federal, state, or local level"

    Obviously, the main issues to NAAFA are workplace discrimination, discrimination in schools, and the way fat patients are often given sub-par care by doctors. Laws protecting other groups from these same issues are already in place, but I've never seen anyone lobbying for a gay-only parking spot.

    Obviously people don't lobby for a gay-only parking spot, however I have seen people in real life lobby for special parking accomodations because of weight despite the lack of physical disability. If the event has in fact happened, it is therefore not a fallacy.
  • wackyfunster
    wackyfunster Posts: 944 Member
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    I think we should all accept each other the way we are. The problem arises when acceptance leads to laziness and gets in the way of self-improvement.

    If you start off in pursuit of a goal with the presupposition that you are 'not ok' the way you are, then you will keep chasing it forever and never be happy with yourself. If you accept yourself the way you are, you can still make yourself better in whatever way you choose, but instead of it being 'fixing' something, it can be an enjoyable adventure. By accepting other people the way they are, we can help them to do the same.

    On the other hand, this does not excuse people being destructive or harmful to themselves or others. I certainly accept that people have the right to choose that course of action, but I also have the right to choose not to associate with or support such people.

    Just my 2c.
  • Drenched_N_Motivation
    Drenched_N_Motivation Posts: 1,004 Member
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    My mother was fat most of my adult life. She would go on diets once or twice a year and then just stop. One day she basically told me that she just didnt care anymore and that she was happier that way. She died of a heart attack 3 years ago at age 59, in large part to her unhealthy eating. I remember looking at her death certificate and seeing an X marked by "obese" I knew that she was at an unhealty weight, but I never considered her obese. Sometimes I wonder if I should have pushed her harder to eat better, maybe walked with her or something, gotten her to join my gym, i dont know. Why did my mom die at 59 years young? You can accept being fat, but just remember who you might also be affecting because of it.
  • DaughterOfTheMostHighKing
    DaughterOfTheMostHighKing Posts: 1,436 Member
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    I believe that every person should be accepted as they are, but encouraged to improve themselves to be better than what they are at the time.
  • Umeboshi
    Umeboshi Posts: 1,637 Member
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    Obviously people don't lobby for a gay-only parking spot, however I have seen people in real life lobby for special parking accomodations because of weight despite the lack of physical disability. If the event has in fact happened, it is therefore not a fallacy.

    Anecdotal evidence.
  • loneworg
    loneworg Posts: 342 Member
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    My mother was fat most of my adult life. She would go on diets once or twice a year and then just stop. One day she basically told me that she just didnt care anymore and that she was happier that way. She died of a heart attack 3 years ago at age 59, in large part to her unhealthy eating. I remember looking at her death certificate and seeing an X marked by "obese" I knew that she was at an unhealty weight, but I never considered her obese. Sometimes I wonder if I should have pushed her harder to eat better, maybe walked with her or something, gotten her to join my gym, i dont know. Why did my mom die at 59 years young? You can accept being fat, but just remember who you might also be affecting because of it.
    I'm sorrry for your loss and to a point I can relate. My father is obes and have a myrid of health problems. He got a pacemaker at 46 and has battled prostate cancer. Due to more recenet health problems he been put on a strict dietso that he can have gastric bypass. I agree with everything you said. I am very big myself and I got three kids I need to be around for. I sure as hell don't want them to go thru what I went thru. So to me being fat for me is not ok and I think its horrible to teach our kids that its ok to be fat. Like I said before there should be just acceptance for all people and treat every one with respect.
  • StarkLark
    StarkLark Posts: 476 Member
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    As with other movements that I participate in on some level (animal rights and rescue, women's rights), groups I maintain membership to NEA (teacher's union), I DO support the overall message AND mission, while not necessarily every single objective, statement or faction. I COULD go through and copy and paste what I do and do not agree with, but some things I would have to sit and really weigh deeply (and its 2:22 a.m. here, and I am going on a 4 mile hike tomorrow).

    More than that, I think the community and resources offered are PRICELESS. I also, frankly, and personally grateful for NAAFA, since they spawned Shapely Prose, The Fat Nutritionist, Ed BItes and all of the other blogs that brought me to the place I am at today.

    Shaming people makes them ashamed, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive. I think that Fat Acceptance wouldn't exist if there wasn't a problem. I think our own bodies are the one place where we should have unbridled control. To try to take that away is ... dangerous.
    I don't have any first hand knowledge of the community and resources offered by NAAFP, so I will defer to you on that. I also agree with a few of your points. But I disagree on this one:
    I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive.
    It all comes down to your definition of "fat". (****, why do late night debates always end up at semantics? :yawn: ) When I think of fat, I think of myself, 100+ pounds overweight. A world biased against me is called natural selection.
  • walkner88
    walkner88 Posts: 165
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    We should never accept it. Ever. We all share the huge amount of costs our government pays out for obesity related issues. This doesn't just include health costs alone ( which are substantial) but also retrofittong to public transportation and buildings to handle the new load of people. Other costs even include the larger amount of fuel needed to transport these people. Any time someone actslike it just affects them tell them no we are all paying for your poor decisions and lack of motivation

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