Fat Acceptance
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Obviously people don't lobby for a gay-only parking spot, however I have seen people in real life lobby for special parking accomodations because of weight despite the lack of physical disability. If the event has in fact happened, it is therefore not a fallacy.
Anecdotal evidence.
factual evidence:
http://voices.yahoo.com/1990-ada-revisited-obesity-qualify-people-for-6567792.html
The ADA has been forced to expand it's interpretation of disability. But should obesity qualify a person for ADA benefits and considerations? What benefits might an obese person qualify under the ADA? The ADA was initiated primarily to assist handicapped people to get equal rights and fair treatment compared to non-handicapped people. Handicapped accessible work environments and public facilities, special parking permits and equal opportunity employment were the primary focus of the ADA. So the consideration for obesity as a handicap would include things like handicapped parking permits, motorized cart accessibility, extra large bathroom and work site facilities and furniture. As we found with the implementation of the initial ADA requirements, these structural changes can be rather costly for employers and public institutions.
and
http://overlawyered.com/2010/02/obese-woman-wins-human-rights-fight-for-parking-spot/
Obesity-as-disability in Canada: “Marise Myrand said her condo association discriminated against her by denying her a parking spot closer to her building entrance.” She’s now won a favorable ruling from the Quebec Human Rights Tribunal and a $10,000 settlement. [The Globe and Mail, h/t reader Vicky G.]0 -
I am 100% for fat acceptance even if i don't agree with someone's lifestyle or eating habits. Who am i to judge someone else's body? In some cases being too thin is just as bad for the body, yet that lifestyle choice isn't shamed or made fun of. If someone is happy with their weight and are healthy then i applaud them, contentment takes a lot in today's society. To all the people complaining about how fat other people are.. until you buy their food or want to hire them a personal trainer, it's really no one's else's business. People can post as many links as they want about "proof and "facts", but people shouldn't be classed as numbers, we all have issues and reasons. How dare anyone presume to think a stranger is over weight due to being lazy, that is so ignorant. I know there are lazy people out there, but don't lump every over weight person together.0
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I believe in body acceptance and letting people do with their bodies what they want to do, because it's THEIR body and therefore no one else's business.0
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factual evidence:
http://voices.yahoo.com/1990-ada-revisited-obesity-qualify-people-for-6567792.html
The ADA has been forced to expand it's interpretation of disability. But should obesity qualify a person for ADA benefits and considerations? What benefits might an obese person qualify under the ADA? The ADA was initiated primarily to assist handicapped people to get equal rights and fair treatment compared to non-handicapped people. Handicapped accessible work environments and public facilities, special parking permits and equal opportunity employment were the primary focus of the ADA. So the consideration for obesity as a handicap would include things like handicapped parking permits, motorized cart accessibility, extra large bathroom and work site facilities and furniture. As we found with the implementation of the initial ADA requirements, these structural changes can be rather costly for employers and public institutions.
and
http://overlawyered.com/2010/02/obese-woman-wins-human-rights-fight-for-parking-spot/
Obesity-as-disability in Canada: “Marise Myrand said her condo association discriminated against her by denying her a parking spot closer to her building entrance.” She’s now won a favorable ruling from the Quebec Human Rights Tribunal and a $10,000 settlement. [The Globe and Mail, h/t reader Vicky G.]
And your evidence is completely unrelated to NAAFA and their legislation goals, and were not advocated for by NAAFA.0 -
I In some cases being too thin is just as bad for the body, yet that lifestyle choice isn't shamed or made fun of. .
Its called anorexia and or bulimia and its made fun of all the time.0 -
I believe in body acceptance and letting people do with their bodies what they want to do, because it's THEIR body and therefore no one else's business.
What about when they shorten their childrens lifes and pretty much ensure they will be bullied in school?0 -
I In some cases being too thin is just as bad for the body, yet that lifestyle choice isn't shamed or made fun of. .
Its called anorexia and or bulimia and its made fun of all the time.
Not everyone who is underweight is anorexic or bulimic. And these two disorders shouldn't be made fun of either. They're genuine illnesses.0 -
I don't have any first hand knowledge of the community and resources offered by NAAFP, so I will defer to you on that. I also agree with a few of your points. But I disagree on this one:As with other movements that I participate in on some level (animal rights and rescue, women's rights), groups I maintain membership to NEA (teacher's union), I DO support the overall message AND mission, while not necessarily every single objective, statement or faction. I COULD go through and copy and paste what I do and do not agree with, but some things I would have to sit and really weigh deeply (and its 2:22 a.m. here, and I am going on a 4 mile hike tomorrow).
More than that, I think the community and resources offered are PRICELESS. I also, frankly, and personally grateful for NAAFA, since they spawned Shapely Prose, The Fat Nutritionist, Ed BItes and all of the other blogs that brought me to the place I am at today.
Shaming people makes them ashamed, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive. I think that Fat Acceptance wouldn't exist if there wasn't a problem. I think our own bodies are the one place where we should have unbridled control. To try to take that away is ... dangerous.
It all comes down to your definition of "fat". (****, why do late night debates always end up at semantics? :yawn: ) When I think of fat, I think of myself, 100+ pounds overweight. A world biased against me is called natural selection.I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive.
But when people start talking about insurance, rights and accessibility of services, the cut-off could well be the clinical definition of obese, or even overweight, it COULD be morbidly obese, but there is no way to know until it happens, which is why there is a movement to prevent such things from happening.
Canada has already considered bans on fertility treatment for obese women. As of right now, the standard measure of obesity is BMI.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/new-health/health-news/canadian-mds-consider-denying-fertility-treatments-to-obese-women/article2173941/
I started this journey 5'5, 185, BMI 30.8. www.bmicalculator.org .
No health issues except a non-weight related congenital condition (unicornuate uterus), that will affect my fertility and pregnancies. There is a high likelihood that I will need fertility services and I hope my insurance will cover some of it. Granted, I am a U.S. citizen, but that STILL hits close to home, and there are some fertility Drs., that will require you to lose weight before they will treat you.0 -
Slippery slope? Did you even read what iddreams posted? She spoke about fat discrimination and how she overcame it and you counter with a copy and pasted definition that doesn't even apply and has no meaning to anything she said...You and I seem to have very similar viewpoints. When I was 450#, I did not expect "special treatment". I did however want to be treated like a human. Even now at 260#, people who do not know my history judge me and treat me like crap. I don't let it happen for very long any more because I am confident enough to voice my opinion. Just today at the Gym, I had a guy make a snide comment about me being too fat to be there. I can tell you what, not only did he get an earful, but I reported him to the facility and he was asked to leave for the day and put on warning. No one should have to be judged harshly without knowing the circumstances, but in my opinion, this advocacy group is pushing the envelope. Next, they'll be demanding special parking spots for weight-challenged individuals.
Slippery slope fallacy.
The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:
Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.
According to NAAFA:
"Discrimination towards fat people in the workplace, education system, and healthcare system has been clearly documented and is growing rapidly. Weight discrimination was reported by 7% of US adults in 1995-96, and almost doubled to 12% by 2006.
To improve working conditions, healthcare, and overall quality of life for millions of Americans, weight must be added to the list of categories covered in anti-discrimination laws. This can be accomplished on a federal, state, or local level"
Obviously, the main issues to NAAFA are workplace discrimination, discrimination in schools, and the way fat patients are often given sub-par care by doctors. Laws protecting other groups from these same issues are already in place, but I've never seen anyone lobbying for a gay-only parking spot.
artmrn was right.0 -
factual evidence:
http://voices.yahoo.com/1990-ada-revisited-obesity-qualify-people-for-6567792.html
The ADA has been forced to expand it's interpretation of disability. But should obesity qualify a person for ADA benefits and considerations? What benefits might an obese person qualify under the ADA? The ADA was initiated primarily to assist handicapped people to get equal rights and fair treatment compared to non-handicapped people. Handicapped accessible work environments and public facilities, special parking permits and equal opportunity employment were the primary focus of the ADA. So the consideration for obesity as a handicap would include things like handicapped parking permits, motorized cart accessibility, extra large bathroom and work site facilities and furniture. As we found with the implementation of the initial ADA requirements, these structural changes can be rather costly for employers and public institutions.
and
http://overlawyered.com/2010/02/obese-woman-wins-human-rights-fight-for-parking-spot/
Obesity-as-disability in Canada: “Marise Myrand said her condo association discriminated against her by denying her a parking spot closer to her building entrance.” She’s now won a favorable ruling from the Quebec Human Rights Tribunal and a $10,000 settlement. [The Globe and Mail, h/t reader Vicky G.]
And your evidence is completely unrelated to NAAFA and their legislation goals, and were not advocated for by NAAFA.
Perhaps not, but when the door is opened to classify obesity as a protected class, more of these types of law-suits will come up. You may see it as unrelated, but it will happen. Don't get me wrong, I do think that there should be very specific guidelines that prevent employers from discriminating against weight. Read my initial post on this subject...I've experienced weight discrimination in the workplace, and it totally sucks because there is no repurcussion....especially in a right to work state, such as where I live.
One thing that also sucks, is people ASSUME that if you have a handicap permit and are overwieght that you got the permit because of it. I have a permit, but I got mine AFTER I lost the majority of the weight. I seldom use it, but when my fibromyalgia and arthritis are flaring, I absolutely use it...but that doesn't stop the snide comments about my weight being the reason. Sometimes a person can have a disability that is unseen to the naked eye. You wouldn't be able to tell that I am in excruciating pain by looking at me. When I am walking slow and limping, it is assumed it is because of weight, but really it is becase of a chronic pain condition.
I am not anti-FA, I just think that it needs more specific guidelines than what is being requested.0 -
I believe in body acceptance and letting people do with their bodies what they want to do, because it's THEIR body and therefore no one else's business.
What about when they shorten their childrens lifes and pretty much ensure they will be bullied in school?
That's not what they're doing to their body. That's what they're doing to someone else's body.0 -
I In some cases being too thin is just as bad for the body, yet that lifestyle choice isn't shamed or made fun of. .
Its called anorexia and or bulimia and its made fun of all the time.
Not everyone who is underweight is anorexic or bulimic. And these two disorders shouldn't be made fun of either. They're genuine illnesses.
You just love to argue dont you. You know what I meant. Ok, not EVERY skinny person is anorexic or bulimic but the ones who do choose that lifestyle are shamed and made fun of.0 -
Umeboshi - I have a serious question for you...genuine interest, no snark intended...
How can we, as a society, promote programs intended to curb obesity, without the effort being perceived as fat stigmatization? I mean you obviously are trying to get healthy, but also advocate fat acceptance? I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around the two different things.
I am against discrimination in all forms, period. I don't think the issue is as simple as it being a choice, and that people need to eat less and move more. I think it's really a lot more complicated than that- though those directives are probably beneficial to almost every person suffering from obesity. I just don't exactly understand how to ideologically help solve the obesity epidemic without those effort being seen as condescending or attacks on fat people, etc.0 -
I'm torn between my strong belief that everyone should be comfortable in their own skin and love themselves as they are and my equally firm belief that people should try to be healthy. Not necessarily a BMI determined weight, but an active person who makes an effort to eat more fruits and veggies and less packaged stuff.
Nobody should be discriminated against, but they also shouldn't use excuses to become complacent with an unhealthy life.
This is actually the most succinct and perfect description of fat acceptance. I 100% agree with this.0 -
Well even though no one is talking about insurance, you got me there. BMI is bull****. The insurance game is disgraceful. Unfortunately I don't know how to get around it short of winning the lottery. But I do know that advocating, protecting and legislating a lifestyle that is unhealthy for most people is not the answer.
I don't have any first hand knowledge of the community and resources offered by NAAFP, so I will defer to you on that. I also agree with a few of your points. But I disagree on this one:As with other movements that I participate in on some level (animal rights and rescue, women's rights), groups I maintain membership to NEA (teacher's union), I DO support the overall message AND mission, while not necessarily every single objective, statement or faction. I COULD go through and copy and paste what I do and do not agree with, but some things I would have to sit and really weigh deeply (and its 2:22 a.m. here, and I am going on a 4 mile hike tomorrow).
More than that, I think the community and resources offered are PRICELESS. I also, frankly, and personally grateful for NAAFA, since they spawned Shapely Prose, The Fat Nutritionist, Ed BItes and all of the other blogs that brought me to the place I am at today.
Shaming people makes them ashamed, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive. I think that Fat Acceptance wouldn't exist if there wasn't a problem. I think our own bodies are the one place where we should have unbridled control. To try to take that away is ... dangerous.
It all comes down to your definition of "fat". (****, why do late night debates always end up at semantics? :yawn: ) When I think of fat, I think of myself, 100+ pounds overweight. A world biased against me is called natural selection.I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive.
But when people start talking about insurance, rights and accessibility of services, the cut-off could well be the clinical definition of obese, or even overweight, it COULD be morbidly obese, but there is no way to know until it happens, which is why there is a movement to prevent such things from happening.
Canada has already considered bans on fertility treatment for obese women. As of right now, the standard measure of obesity is BMI.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/new-health/health-news/canadian-mds-consider-denying-fertility-treatments-to-obese-women/article2173941/
I started this journey 5'5, 185, BMI 30.8. www.bmicalculator.org .
No health issues except a non-weight related congenital condition (unicornuate uterus), that will affect my fertility and pregnancies. There is a high likelihood that I will need fertility services and I hope my insurance will cover some of it. Granted, I am a U.S. citizen, but that STILL hits close to home, and there are some fertility Drs., that will require you to lose weight before they will treat you.0 -
Slippery slope? Did you even read what iddreams posted? She spoke about fat discrimination and how she overcame it and you counter with a copy and pasted definition that doesn't even apply and has no meaning to anything she said...You and I seem to have very similar viewpoints. When I was 450#, I did not expect "special treatment". I did however want to be treated like a human. Even now at 260#, people who do not know my history judge me and treat me like crap. I don't let it happen for very long any more because I am confident enough to voice my opinion. Just today at the Gym, I had a guy make a snide comment about me being too fat to be there. I can tell you what, not only did he get an earful, but I reported him to the facility and he was asked to leave for the day and put on warning. No one should have to be judged harshly without knowing the circumstances, but in my opinion, this advocacy group is pushing the envelope. Next, they'll be demanding special parking spots for weight-challenged individuals.
Slippery slope fallacy.
The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:
Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.
According to NAAFA:
"Discrimination towards fat people in the workplace, education system, and healthcare system has been clearly documented and is growing rapidly. Weight discrimination was reported by 7% of US adults in 1995-96, and almost doubled to 12% by 2006.
To improve working conditions, healthcare, and overall quality of life for millions of Americans, weight must be added to the list of categories covered in anti-discrimination laws. This can be accomplished on a federal, state, or local level"
Obviously, the main issues to NAAFA are workplace discrimination, discrimination in schools, and the way fat patients are often given sub-par care by doctors. Laws protecting other groups from these same issues are already in place, but I've never seen anyone lobbying for a gay-only parking spot.
artmrn was right.
She is the Google master0 -
I believe in body acceptance and letting people do with their bodies what they want to do, because it's THEIR body and therefore no one else's business.
What about when they shorten their childrens lifes and pretty much ensure they will be bullied in school?
That's not what they're doing to their body. That's what they're doing to someone else's body.
Yeah but making being obese acceptable you are putting it on par Being a minority or being being disabled.
A white man cannot change the fact his kids will have his skin tone.
An obese person who is obese because ohh its not my fault who has obese children has every right to keep his kid fat because hey its not his fault.
So kids will suffer, like it or not fat kids get bullied im sure most people on here can remember school days.0 -
Arguing the merits of if Fat Acceptance is something that should be looked at more so by necessity than by wether or not it is right or not.
Why have a movement about it? That is the part that is troubling. It just seems like a continuation of our "political correctness" and "sensitive" every body is a special flower movement that seems to be taking over the U.S and Western Nations.
Why even bring attention to it ? If you are going to judge a person you are going to judge a person. Is it to lead to some sort of goal? To force people to cater to over weight people ? Larger seats ? More of those electric carts in Wal Mart ?
Obesity is a disease and there are plenty of eating disorders and other psychological conditions that as a society we are already accepting but just good old fashioned bad eating habit no exercising obesity, OF COURSE NOT ! Why condone something that is working against the very fabric of what society is, the continuation of itself. For all the medical advancements and medications we pump out on a daily basis the fast food industry and process food industry sure does their best to keep them clinging to their heart pills!
That is why a lot of people are against government ran and paid for health care because they bust their balls getting healthier and people like me come in with all the medical problems associated with obesity and will expect more work to be done.
Unless you have a classified eating disorder, you are just fat, You did it to yourself no one should be creating clubs in order to celebrate that, I am not saying any one needs to disrespect them or any thing but why do you need a special pity party to "accept" your fatness ?0 -
Umeboshi - I have a serious question for you...genuine interest, no snark intended...
How can we, as a society, promote programs intended to curb obesity, without the effort being perceived as fat stigmatization? I mean you obviously are trying to get healthy, but also advocate fat acceptance? I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around the two different things.
I am against discrimination in all forms, period. I don't think the issue is as simple as it being a choice, and that people need to eat less and move more. I think it's really a lot more complicated than that- though those directives are probably beneficial to almost every person suffering from obesity. I just don't exactly understand how to ideologically help solve the obesity epidemic without those effort being seen as condescending or attacks on fat people, etc.
We shouldn't. Society should promote programs to increase health by encouraging exercise, healthy diet, and regular doctor visits and screenings, and proper self care for mental health. One can be healthy AND fat, and earlier in the thread I posted a few things supporting that, and more studies turn up all the time supporting the fact that health is more than weight.
By focusing on obesity, society is ignoring the health of those who are thin but unhealthy.
The 'obesity epidemic' is a disgusting term and shames fat people and promotes treatment of fat people as a disease that needs to be eradicated.
For more information on weight and heath, I highly recommend reading this post by Kate Harding:
http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/0 -
My opinion on the Body-Acceptance (anti body-shame) is that there is a difference between accepting your body & LOVING/being comfortable with yourself.
Can someone overweight honestly say they're happy with themselves? The troubled movement, weakness of breathe, unhealthy lifestyle? I doubt it. That they're perfecting fine with not changing it?
But that is just me.
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