Vegetarianism. Seriously? (A Debate)

fteale

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LOVE THIS

I am vegetarian because I think it is morally disgusting to rear and kill other living creatures for our own warped gratification. We don't need meat, if we were carnivores and we had no choice I might feel differently, but given I have been perfectly healthy for the last 22 years on a vegetarian diet, I don't think there is any valid reason why humans should eat meat. IMO "it tastes good" is a pathetic justification. Necrophilia might feel good, but it's gross so humans don't do it. I feel the same about eating something that is dead.

*disclaimer - obviously plants don't count not having a brain or central nervous system or consciousness.

gchutson

For those concerned, be assured, I'm perfectly 'calm'.

To the OP, when you ask for a debate, it's typical to lay down the terms of your argument - that's how debate happens. One person outlines an argument, the other person lays down theirs, and evidence and rational development of those arguments proceeds...

Your basic premise remains obscure. If there's something beyond 'Meat: I like it' in your original premise, I might be able to offer some counterpoint. But it's hard to actually debate on the point of what tingles someone else's tastebuds

Sadly, I agree with you completely. However, by clearly establishing an "actual debate" pursuant your aforementioned construct, this thread would have been shutdown within approximately 5 minutes.

Trust me on this.

Thus, I opened with a lighthearted "discussion point / counter-point" protocol in an effort to get people talking.

As for the education in procedure, I am quite familiar. They taught us all the good stuff in law school.

wrevhn

Well, my entire family discusses this a lot. To me, most vegans and quite a many vegetarians just never look healthy. None of us get it. I don't buy the "not hurting living creatures" thing. A. dogs and cats eat meat and require it if you feed you cat tofu your evil. B. just because plants don't have faces or vocal cords doesn't mean your not eating them alive, killing them, or hurting them. We must eat life to live. Can't live off of rocks.

not to ruffle feathers. just one family's opinion. everyone is allowed their own.

gchutson

Meat's not the problem, it's how the living and breathing animal is treated while it has a life, brain, and feelings, and the way in which it is treated during slaughter.

Since you are obviously not going to be swayed by any postings, why start a "debate"?

As you say, you are uneducated, so I forgive you. (yes, I know, you're kidding, but I wouldn't be surprised if you really were uneducated)

Alas, we will never live in a world of vegetarians, or even one where cruelty to "farm" animals has disappeared.

Someone commented earlier that it's not "vegetarians," rather their "holier-than-thou attitude."

Eh hem. Wink wink. Nudge nudge.

nikinyx6

To the person who said "salad is what food eats," that is just about the most ridiculous thing I've heard in my life.

That was me. Just joking around, I eat salad too :P

gchutson

I don't see how this could be a debate. I eat meat and I don't give a **** whether other people choose to eat it or not. The end.

Exactly. No one should ever talk about anything, ever. Especially on a forum. Who do people think they are? Talking about stuff in place designed to talk about stuff. The nerve of some people.

Sarauk2sf

Meat's not the problem, it's how the living and breathing animal is treated while it has a life, brain, and feelings, and the way in which it is treated during slaughter.

Since you are obviously not going to be swayed by any postings, why start a "debate"?

As you say, you are uneducated, so I forgive you. (yes, I know, you're kidding, but I wouldn't be surprised if you really were uneducated)

Alas, we will never live in a world of vegetarians, or even one where cruelty to "farm" animals has disappeared.

Someone commented earlier that it's not "vegetarians," rather their "holier-than-thou attitude."

Eh hem. Wink wink. Nudge nudge.

And this is why I hate these types of posts. You end up with people taking the moral highground (which they are entitled to do, it just niggles me) and then you have others making ridiculous statements like plants have feelings. They always end up the same.

diddyk

What bothers me about that whole lot [of people that have never existed ever] (referencing other people is forbidden), is that you never see "healthy" vegetarians. By "healthy," I mean my definition of "healthy." IE, muscles, built, powerful, etc...

I'm a vegetarian, it started because I didn't like meat as a child. My parents made me eat it, and when I was old enough to prepare my own food, I became a vegetarian. That being said, now that I am older and wiser, the moral aspect is also very important to me. I also live with meat eaters and have no problem with it, it's your choice. I leave it alone and expect people to leave my choice alone.

I understand people are supposed to eat meat, for ages is was a necessity to survive. If you want to go out, kill your own meal, and use rest of the animal for various purposes, power to you, I respect that. I just don't see walking into the butcher or grocery store humane.

And just because you had to say it's not possible,

gchutson

LOVE THIS

I am vegetarian because I think it is morally disgusting to rear and kill other living creatures for our own warped gratification. We don't need meat, if we were carnivores and we had no choice I might feel differently, but given I have been perfectly healthy for the last 22 years on a vegetarian diet, I don't think there is any valid reason why humans should eat meat. IMO "it tastes good" is a pathetic justification. Necrophilia might feel good, but it's gross so humans don't do it. I feel the same about eating something that is dead.

*disclaimer - obviously plants don't count not having a brain or central nervous system or consciousness.
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Speaking for all my fellow gorillas, I am mildly offended by this.

deadstarsunburn

To the person who said "salad is what food eats," that is just about the most ridiculous thing I've heard in my life.

That was me. Just joking around, I eat salad too :P

Okay lol than I apologize.
I have quite a bit of annoyance associated with that because I hear that exact phrase whenever I visit my boyfriends family it drives me insane.

LazerMole

LOVE THIS

I am vegetarian because I think it is morally disgusting to rear and kill other living creatures for our own warped gratification. We don't need meat, if we were carnivores and we had no choice I might feel differently, but given I have been perfectly healthy for the last 22 years on a vegetarian diet, I don't think there is any valid reason why humans should eat meat. IMO "it tastes good" is a pathetic justification. Necrophilia might feel good, but it's gross so humans don't do it. I feel the same about eating something that is dead.

*disclaimer - obviously plants don't count not having a brain or central nervous system or consciousness.
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I'm just going to point out that while you have lived a perfectly healthy life as a vegetarian - vegetarianism is not for everyone, and not all people would be okay with a strictly vegetarian lifestyle. I'd also like to point out that unless you want to sterilize every single domesticated farm animal currently in existence, we're going to have an issue with very dumb animals with nowhere to go and no skills to survive in the wild. Even if we're not killing the livestock for food, I'm assuming you're still cool with dairy and eggs - but you have to do something with the excess of males, otherwise they end up causing damage and fighting one another for dominance.

Veganism is a horrible idea anywhere else but in the 1st world - because people who do not have access to more than a hand full of vegetables and legumes are not going to get enough fat or protein to sustain brain development that they would get if they could raise chickens and goats for eggs and milk. And I'm really stressing that goat thing. Seriously - those f***ers will eat anything.

gchutson

Meat's not the problem, it's how the living and breathing animal is treated while it has a life, brain, and feelings, and the way in which it is treated during slaughter.

Since you are obviously not going to be swayed by any postings, why start a "debate"?

As you say, you are uneducated, so I forgive you. (yes, I know, you're kidding, but I wouldn't be surprised if you really were uneducated)

Alas, we will never live in a world of vegetarians, or even one where cruelty to "farm" animals has disappeared.

Someone commented earlier that it's not "vegetarians," rather their "holier-than-thou attitude."

Eh hem. Wink wink. Nudge nudge.

And this is why I hate these types of posts. You end up with people taking the moral highground (which they are entitled to do, it just niggles me) and then you have others making ridiculous statements like plants have feelings. They always end up the same.

"Niggles." I learned a new word today. I'm sure someone will find that offensive.

sho3girl

I like meat and I like blood!

However, I do have two darling cats, they are my friends and... we DON'T eat friends! So, I'd have to qualify, "Yes, I like meat AND I like blood, however, I probably wouldn't eat it if there was any intimacy involved prior to feasting..."

Again, avoiding all jokes about "eating [cats]."

just too funny :laugh:

noweightfisherj

I do believe eating no meat or little meat significantly reduces the interior and exterior wear and tear on your body. Plus you are more likely to consume and ENJOY fruit, vegetables, and legumes. For children raised vegetarian, it sets a foundation for life for healthy eating. All of my kids love healthy food, they don't have that distaste for veggies that seems common in American children.

I would never tell anyone they SHOULD be vegetarian, but I do think most people (at least in the states) eat too much meat. You can never go wrong in reducing how much meat you eat, but eating too much meat can actually hurt you.

Scientifically, none of this is true. Vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores all have the same rates of disease and life expectancies. Also, I eat meat, and I've never not enjoyed fruit, vegetables, or legumes. Vegetarian =/= healthy eating, as there are plenty of things that are vegetarian that are not healthy. Oreo cookies, potato chips, french fries, just 3 examples off the top of my head that are considered vegetarian (well, vegan technically.)

Good habits lead to good health, no specific diet or way of eating automatically leads to good health.

And GC, commercial potato chips are fried in canola oil, vegetable oil, or sunflower oil. They stopped using lard decades ago. Sad really, as nutritionally, lard is actually very high in monounsaturated fat, and medium chain triglycerides, the healthy stuff people are spending crazy amounts of money on coconut oil for. :laugh:

Apparently, you've never been to the south. We fry everything in lard. Last night I had chicken-fried ice tea.

I have had chicken fried steak, chicken fried chicken, (which is just fried chicken), and chicken fried bacon, but I have yet to try chicken fried tea. I look forward to it.

gchutson

I do believe eating no meat or little meat significantly reduces the interior and exterior wear and tear on your body. Plus you are more likely to consume and ENJOY fruit, vegetables, and legumes. For children raised vegetarian, it sets a foundation for life for healthy eating. All of my kids love healthy food, they don't have that distaste for veggies that seems common in American children.

I would never tell anyone they SHOULD be vegetarian, but I do think most people (at least in the states) eat too much meat. You can never go wrong in reducing how much meat you eat, but eating too much meat can actually hurt you.

Scientifically, none of this is true. Vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores all have the same rates of disease and life expectancies. Also, I eat meat, and I've never not enjoyed fruit, vegetables, or legumes. Vegetarian =/= healthy eating, as there are plenty of things that are vegetarian that are not healthy. Oreo cookies, potato chips, french fries, just 3 examples off the top of my head that are considered vegetarian (well, vegan technically.)

Good habits lead to good health, no specific diet or way of eating automatically leads to good health.

And GC, commercial potato chips are fried in canola oil, vegetable oil, or sunflower oil. They stopped using lard decades ago. Sad really, as nutritionally, lard is actually very high in monounsaturated fat, and medium chain triglycerides, the healthy stuff people are spending crazy amounts of money on coconut oil for. :laugh:

Apparently, you've never been to the south. We fry everything in lard. Last night I had chicken-fried ice tea.

I have had chicken fried steak, chicken fried chicken, (which is just fried chicken), and chicken fried bacon, but I have yet to try chicken fried tea. I look forward to it.

It's great. Getting the fried batter up the straw is a challenge, but it's totally worth it.

gchutson

What bothers me about that whole lot [of people that have never existed ever] (referencing other people is forbidden), is that you never see "healthy" vegetarians. By "healthy," I mean my definition of "healthy." IE, muscles, built, powerful, etc...

I'm a vegetarian, it started because I didn't like meat as a child. My parents made me eat it, and when I was old enough to prepare my own food, I became a vegetarian. That being said, now that I am older and wiser, the moral aspect is also very important to me. I also live with meat eaters and have no problem with it, it's your choice. I leave it alone and expect people to leave my choice alone.

I understand people are supposed to eat meat, for ages is was a necessity to survive. If you want to go out, kill your own meal, and use rest of the animal for various purposes, power to you, I respect that. I just don't see walking into the butcher or grocery store humane.

And just because you had to say it's not possible,

Celebrity opinions regarding anything, never count, ever.

ironanimal

LOVE THIS

I am vegetarian because I think it is morally disgusting to rear and kill other living creatures for our own warped gratification. We don't need meat, if we were carnivores and we had no choice I might feel differently, but given I have been perfectly healthy for the last 22 years on a vegetarian diet, I don't think there is any valid reason why humans should eat meat. IMO "it tastes good" is a pathetic justification. Necrophilia might feel good, but it's gross so humans don't do it. I feel the same about eating something that is dead.

*disclaimer - obviously plants don't count not having a brain or central nervous system or consciousness.
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Gorillas do eat meat, as do chimpanzees and koala bears, just before they're referenced. Carry on.

_VoV

I've been a vegetarian since my teens. I think it is the KINDEST way to feed myself. I simply see no reason to make food choices which require someone to kill animals for me, if I can live well on plant-based food. After these many years, I see no point in debating this lifestyle. Live and let live.

I've been eating this way since 1973--going on 40 years. I am in prime health at age 57. Whether this is attributable to my veg*n diet, I simply can't tell you, but I doubt it has hurt me any. I don't debate the health advantages of a plant-based diet, since most of the research is epidemiological, and I think it isn't proof, per se, that one diet is superior to another. I do believe eating a rainbow of plant foods is a good thing, and I encourage anyone willing to listen to me to do so.

Veg*n food options keep getting better all the time, and I am thankful for that.

happythermia

different strokes for different blokes, my friend.

Sarauk2sf

Gorillas do eat meat, as do chimpanzees and koala bears, just before they're referenced. Carry on.

While this is actually true - it is insects they eat (usually ants). There is no conclusive proof that gorillas eat meat (other than insects) in the wild. Chimps - yes, gorillas, no.