Calling All REAL animal lovers!!!

Rhea30

Yes, but when you look at a pig do you imagine eating tearing it apart and eating it raw, blood, tendons, muscles, organs and all? That's what all other carnivores do. But to humans, the idea of killing an eating an animal raw on the spot is just mortifying.

Not entirely true...I have a few menfolk friends that absolutely love to take a few bites of raw steak before throwing it on the grill.

Really, it's only disgusting because that's how our society views it now. Plenty of meat was eaten raw in the past, including ritualistic purposes. If the world ends and society crumbles, and I have to chose between starving or killing an animal and consuming parts of it raw, you can bet I'll be getting my hands bloody.

Not to mention some of those crazies they find living in the wilderness and reverting back to a primal mental state...

I have a dog who doesn't kill animals, she don't seem to the have the instinct for it. When she spots something she just barks at it and hopes I'll prepare it for her while other dog is like a little hunter. So I'm unsure if all animals who eat meat are quick to pounce if they haven't been taught.

fiveohmike

But the Bible is true. I believe the bible because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eye witnesses during the life time of other eye witnesses. That reports supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies and claim to be divine rather than human in origin, like Psalm 22 which is a description of Christ crucifixion written by a man who had never seen a crucifixion because it had not been invented yet. The bible has more than 6000 manuscripts, which are all the same, proving it hasn’t been changed. The bible was written by 40+ authors in a time frame of 1600 years and three continents, and it all lines up so it must be God-breathed therefore true.

And thats your belief.. Other people surprisingly have different beliefs about god. This isnt a religious debate so why does god have to be thrown into it?

My belief is backed by many facts and I quoted a verse that related to the OP post and it was shot down so I defended it, AND because without God we would not be here.

Okay name one time that God came to earth and annouced himself to all humans... until then dont force your belief on anyone.

1. I am not religous.

2. Can you prove that god doesn't exist?

lovecrescendo

Perhaps 'convert' wasn't the right word -- his blog exposes the harsh truth of what goes on in the meat and dairy industries. People have discovered his blog and discovered the truth and have decided to go vegan. It's not like he pressured his beliefs on them, that's not what I was trying to say, but I guess it came out that way, haha.

Oh, OK, that's fine. I was pretty perturbed at the idea of some jerk going around telling people they should be vegetarian/vegan and flashing animal cruelty photos at them, haha.

You're right, many of us know what's going on and still allow it to happen -- however, every day, more and more people discover what's going on and are NOT okay with it. It's not about being hopeful -- do you think women were just 'hopeful' that one day they would have equal rights as men? No, they took a stand, they fought for what they believed in. And that's what the animal activist community is doing.

The big difference being that women's rights probably aided our economy, whereas changing how farms work could not only have a detrimental effect on the economy (in the short term, at least, but probably long term, as well) but also our food supply. It's a slippery slope.

You're right, and that's what it all comes down to -- money. If we all suddenly went vegan many jobs would be lost. But at the same time, many jobs I would think would begin to be gained in other industries. Vegans have to replace their meat intake with something else. So whatever that is, as demand goes down for meat and dairy, it goes up for those other things, like crops... fruits, veggies, etc. This is more my line of thinking than research I've done, though. HOWEVER... It IS true that over 70% of the grain and cereals that we grow are fed to farm animals, who in turn produce comparatively small amounts of meat. That means that raising animals for food is really quite insufficient.

fiveohmike

Yes, but when you look at a pig do you imagine eating tearing it apart and eating it raw, blood, tendons, muscles, organs and all? That's what all other carnivores do. But to humans, the idea of killing an eating an animal raw on the spot is just mortifying.

Not entirely true...I have a few menfolk friends that absolutely love to take a few bites of raw steak before throwing it on the grill.

Really, it's only disgusting because that's how our society views it now. Plenty of meat was eaten raw in the past, including ritualistic purposes. If the world ends and society crumbles, and I have to chose between starving or killing an animal and consuming parts of it raw, you can bet I'll be getting my hands bloody.

Not to mention some of those crazies they find living in the wilderness and reverting back to a primal mental state...

I have a dog who doesn't kill animals, she don't seem to the have the instinct for it. When she spots something she just barks at it and hopes I'll prepare it for her while other dog is like a little hunter. So I'm unsure if all animals who eat meat are quick to pounce if they haven't been taught.

My dog kills lizards like crazy...doesnt eat them...just kills them....must be something wrong with her...maybe my kid is next ./sigh

fiveohmike

CassieReannan

1. I am not religous.

2. Can you prove that god doesn't exist?

I cant prove god exists but I can prove that science exists. I look at the facts in front of me that I can SEE and know.
Until God comes down all high and almighty and theres proof of him on Earth, God doesnt exist to me. This thread has nothing in the slightest to do with religion in the first place.

smkey

ugh...
The bible also says women are subservient to their husbands and banishes them as unclean once a month. Pick a better source to argue animals being to feed or serve.
I too am an animal lover, abet a conflicted one because I love my meat proteins. I do not believe they are lessor beings than we are or that we have any right to destroy every last inch of their land or kill them just to show our superiority. Humans as a species think we are so evolved and superior, yet we are the ones destroying the planet that sustains our life... how smart is that?!

teacupowl

I have a dog who doesn't kill animals, she don't seem to the have the instinct for it. When she spots something she just barks at it and hopes I'll prepare it for her while other dog is like a little hunter. So I'm unsure if all animals who eat meat are quick to pounce if they haven't been taught.

My dogs are like that too! The female is a feisty little killer - she brings me mice and rabbits all the time. But our other boy? He likes to chase and bark, but freaks out when he actually catches anything.

taunto

Okay name one time that God came to earth and annouced himself to all humans... until then dont force your belief on anyone.

Do you know who your father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father was? You don't? But you do know he existed since you're here right?

You know air exist? Tell me one time when you saw it.

While the person quoting bible is inappropriate but so is what you're saying.

lovecrescendo

Yes, but when you look at a pig do you imagine eating tearing it apart and eating it raw, blood, tendons, muscles, organs and all? That's what all other carnivores do. But to humans, the idea of killing an eating an animal raw on the spot is just mortifying.

Not entirely true...I have a few menfolk friends that absolutely love to take a few bites of raw steak before throwing it on the grill.

Really, it's only disgusting because that's how our society views it now. Plenty of meat was eaten raw in the past, including ritualistic purposes. If the world ends and society crumbles, and I have to chose between starving or killing an animal and consuming parts of it raw, you can bet I'll be getting my hands bloody.

Not to mention some of those crazies they find living in the wilderness and reverting back to a primal mental state...

True, however that still is different than attacking a cow and ripping it to shreds with your bare hands and canines and devouring it... internal organs, muscles, tendons, blood and all.
On the contrary, I find that the only reasons we're okay with eating some animals and not others is because of how society views it now. Most americans have accepted cow and chicken as a part of their everyday diet, but when it comes to a cat or dog, it sounds disgusting and cruel.
And yes, if it came down to it, and it were a matter of life or death, most of us would be trying to kill an animal to survive. The difference is we're not killing animals to survive. We're killing them because they're tasty.

enyo123

I agree with you, it drives me crazy.
I can't understand how people can actually EAT animals. Do they not think about what goes into it? Death, torture, etc.??!?!?!?

I'm a fairly recent vegetarian (since September/October) but I am so happy that i made this decision. I feel soooo much better about myself because of it.

Sine then, I can't help it, when I see someone eating cow, pig, chicken, etc., I just get really sad. I wonder, do they really understand what they are eating?

That's just part of it, of course. All the stray animals, I wish I could help, but I can't do everything myself. Animal cruelty ... UGH ... it drives me up the wall! I wish I could do MORE!!!

I eat them because they taste good. I don't, however, eat animals that I know personally. My preference is animals that are humanely raised and humanely slaughtered. That's why I don't eat veal or fois gras. It's why I buy free range eggs.

I don't, however, care for the OP's declaration that I cannot possibly be a "real" animal lover because I eat meat. I guess I must just love fake ones. I'll have to let my pups know that they are fake and that I don't have to care for them beyond the occasional dusting.

BTW, I hope this means that you only wear all natural fibers and nothing that comes from an animal... otherwise this is an extremely hypocritical thread.

lwagnitz

I was vegetarian for 3 years, all of middle school. I stopped because I hated beans and I never took vitamins so I was getting sick. I've actually been seriously considering going vegetarian again, and eventually raw vegan. To me, it's not just a moral concept, but a health concept as well.

However, morally, I don't think it's necessarily WRONG to eat meat, I think it's wrong how we raise them for slaughter and how they are treated. There's been several documentaries on how poorly these animals are treated and there are people who choose to turn a blind eye just to be ignorant. I don't understand that.

I would much rather eat a deer that I had hunted that lived a normal life and was not raised it malicious conditions and raised solely for it's meat. However, I could never have the heart... There are some people that are good with kids, or good with the elderly, and I was given the gift to have a special bond with animals. Someone stated that if they would kill a cow for a heart for a human.. I wouldn't do it. That's sounds morbid, but to me, humans are no more of value to me than a cow.

lovecrescendo

Yes, but when you look at a pig do you imagine eating tearing it apart and eating it raw, blood, tendons, muscles, organs and all? That's what all other carnivores do. But to humans, the idea of killing an eating an animal raw on the spot is just mortifying.

Not entirely true...I have a few menfolk friends that absolutely love to take a few bites of raw steak before throwing it on the grill.

Really, it's only disgusting because that's how our society views it now. Plenty of meat was eaten raw in the past, including ritualistic purposes. If the world ends and society crumbles, and I have to chose between starving or killing an animal and consuming parts of it raw, you can bet I'll be getting my hands bloody.

Not to mention some of those crazies they find living in the wilderness and reverting back to a primal mental state...

I have a dog who doesn't kill animals, she don't seem to the have the instinct for it. When she spots something she just barks at it and hopes I'll prepare it for her while other dog is like a little hunter. So I'm unsure if all animals who eat meat are quick to pounce if they haven't been taught.

I think it would be different if your dogs had to survive by eating wild animals... I think then the instincts would kick in.

cosmiquemuffin

I think if you are losing sleep about people not agreeing with you, you need to relax.

It's semantics, anyhow. A lion might say (if they could talk) that zebras are made for them to hunt and kill. We're predators capable of astonishingly efficient ways of getting all sorts of species as a food source. That some might say that this means animals are "made for us" is more of a description of where we are in the food chain than a value or morals thing.

Get some rest, this shouldn't keep you up at night!

bleacheblonde

I totally agree with you, and my parents are farmers! I don't think that animals were put on the earth just to serve humans. To think that is incredibly egocentric and ignores the fact that technically we are ALL animals and we all have to share this place. Humans like to think that we call all the shots and that we lord over everything, but nature has ultimate power over us. We are one piece of a large, complex, and eternal puzzle.

EDesq

I'm going out of my mind here. I feel like everywhere I go someone wants to argue with me about my beliefs that animals have the right to exist on planet earth just as humans do. Animals were NOT created for the purpose of serving mankind, and humans are NOT the superior species. I can't even sleep tonight knowing that there are so many people that disagree with me. It's so insane to me! So, for my sanity, please let me know if you feel like I do. I need some support here!!!

BTW... This is not about me being vegetarian. This has nothing to do with not eating animals. I am a science major and I happen to appreciate the circle of life. I just choose not to eat animals because I don't want to personally cause them harm. I have no problem with the food chain. This is about thinking humans are superior to animals and that animals are here to serve mankind... NOT TRUE.

My Goodness...for a "science" major, You don't seem to understand very much about the Food Chain OR Circle of Life. Believe it or not, Science tells us (via Research, Investigation and Observation) that Humans ARE superior to ALL other animals. Not Physically or MAYBE not Spiritually, BUT Definitely Intellectually. Come back down to Earth, and believe the Science, and forget about YOUR emotional sentiment. You boarder on Non-Sense!

My Humanity allows Me to respect other species, even love some of them. My Humanity also allows My species to evolve and grow. And as we learn better, we tend to DO better...one day we will not need "meat" or want it because we will find a BETTER and as SATISFYING food source, until them there is nothing wrong with eating what we "Grow" or utilizing what we raise.

NOW, when you start to believe like PETA, that other animal species are equal to Humans, and deserve the same "Rights"...I direct you to ANY Children's Oncology Hospital, and I ask YOU, Where is YOUR Humanity? It's EASY to love a dog or cat that you have taken in or even any nameless animal in a shelter. BUT WHO is more Humane...The person who spends countless hours feeding the hungry and helping the sick or correcting human injustice and bondage (Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandela, ML King, Jr.) or PETA Members who equate a Chimp's rights to the Black Person in the USA...what a Hateful, INHUMANE bunch!

fiveohmike

1. I am not religous.

2. Can you prove that god doesn't exist?

I cant prove god exists but I can prove that science exists. I look at the facts in front of me that I can SEE and know.
Until God comes down all high and almighty and theres proof of him on Earth, God doesnt exist to me. This thread has nothing in the slightest to do with religion in the first place.

But science still cant prove that a god doesnt exist. Just saying. Saying god "doesnt" exist is just asinine, especially when science cant prove it one way or another.

I believe in things that can be proven, hence why I believe in science. Science cant disprove god, nor can they prove where we all came from so the jury is still out for me

thelovelyLIZ

I do agree animals and humans are mean to coexist and benefit from one another, and I think the mistreatment of animals is pretty terrible. Unfortunately sometimes you just have to accept that people are going to have different points of views from you and you can't do anything to change it.

From an eating animals point of view, I'm all about the circle of life and native american approach. They used the WHOLE animal when they killed it, and in many tribes the main food source (buffalo in the plains, salmon in the pacific northwest, etc) was seen as a sacred animal and often even incorporated into their creation stories. These animals were the bringers and providers of life, and it's still that way today. I hate factory farming, I think that's just essentially legal animal abuse. I wish humane meat was more available and cheaper. I've never been a big meat eater though, so I don't eat much meat anyway.

DataBased

My Uncle Sam (yes, I really do have an uncle named Sam) harnessed the strength of many animals to make the farm pay enough to keep everyone fed, sheltered, and healthy. Horses, dogs, chickens, cows, rabbits, even worms had their job on the farm. He never worked any of them harder than he worked himself.

We are each able to do things according to our nature. His nature and abilities included having the ability to reason, to plan, to project future needs, and to manage the energies of others. All 8 kids contributed according to their own capabilities as well. Some animals ended up as food - in their time.

It was a good life, one I believe any Native American would have been comfortable with, because it was based on respect.

He was not an animal lover. He was a man trying to make a life for his family.

The whole thing about "we aren't any better than animals" and "if you think differently than I do you aren't' a real animal lover" is just a distraction, and I'm uncertain why the OP posted this thread. It doesn't lift anybody up who is struggling to lose weight or get fit. It doesn't calm tensions or ease anxieties or frustrations of others.

All in all, seems tailor made to incite a nice little forum fight. So as I said before...

[munch munch munch]

Popcorn anyone? This is getting good...

[munch munch munch]

lovecrescendo

I was vegetarian for 3 years, all of middle school. I stopped because I hated beans and I never took vitamins so I was getting sick. I've actually been seriously considering going vegetarian again, and eventually raw vegan. To me, it's not just a moral concept, but a health concept as well.

However, morally, I don't think it's necessarily WRONG to eat meat, I think it's wrong how we raise them for slaughter and how they are treated. There's been several documentaries on how poorly these animals are treated and there are people who choose to turn a blind eye just to be ignorant. I don't understand that.

I would much rather eat a deer that I had hunted that lived a normal life and was not raised it malicious conditions and raised solely for it's meat. However, I could never have the heart... There are some people that are good with kids, or good with the elderly, and I was given the gift to have a special bond with animals. Someone stated that if they would kill a cow for a heart for a human.. I wouldn't do it. That's sounds morbid, but to me, humans are no more of value to me than a cow.

I definitely agree with this! There's a difference between surviving on wild animals that actually got to experience life as it should have been, and raising animals in factories for the sole purpose of slaughter.

CassieReannan

Do you know who your father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father was? You don't? But you do know he existed since you're here right?

You know air exist? Tell me one time when you saw it.

While the person quoting bible is inappropriate but so is what you're saying.

LOL but you see they arent god. AIR is proven to exist because we breathe it in and can remake it easily. Things that cant be seen can be proven to be seen scientifically (bacteria ect). Can I look at God in a microscope or scientifically prove he exists? Facts and data about god? All there is a book someone wrote... do you know that person even wrote the real tale? Were they just a lonely person stuck underground making up stories about a person called Jesus. Your argument is invalid.

Can I see god and breathe in god? and then I read a book about god, holy cow its real! I read plenty of non fiction.

lovecrescendo

I do agree animals and humans are mean to coexist and benefit from one another, and I think the mistreatment of animals is pretty terrible. Unfortunately sometimes you just have to accept that people are going to have different points of views from you and you can't do anything to change it.

From an eating animals point of view, I'm all about the circle of life and native american approach. They used the WHOLE animal when they killed it, and in many tribes the main food source (buffalo in the plains, salmon in the pacific northwest, etc) was seen as a sacred animal and often even incorporated into their creation stories. These animals were the bringers and providers of life, and it's still that way today. I hate factory farming, I think that's just essentially legal animal abuse. I wish humane meat was more available and cheaper. I've never been a big meat eater though, so I don't eat much meat anyway.

YES!!! I definitely agree. The Native Americans used every single part of the bison they hunted. They respected the creature. They let it live its natural life and used it only when it was necessary to them, and even then used every part of it.

enyo123

We treat animals a lot like animals treat each other.
Earth creatures eat one another.
Welcome to reality.
If somebody does not want to eat animal flesh, fine. Just don't snivel over the fact that most humans do.
Life at the top of the food chain has its benefits.
Buon Appetito

I'm sure you would love being mistreated, underfed, farmed and then killed for your flesh to be eaten by creatures bigger than you. I have been vegetarian all my life have no problems with omnivornes. Just because you're a human doesnt mean you have to be ignorant. I do too believe animals were ment to be eaten, but to the extent.. Now they are farmed soley for meat.

What do you think would happen to these domesticated species if we stopped farming them for food? Do you think that these domesticated species will be able to suddenly fend for themselves? Doubtful. Just like I doubt that my Chihuahua could fend for himself without having a human to care for him.

fiveohmike

Do you know who your father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father's father was? You don't? But you do know he existed since you're here right?

You know air exist? Tell me one time when you saw it.

While the person quoting bible is inappropriate but so is what you're saying.

LOL but you see they arent god. AIR is proven to exist because we breathe it in and can remake it easily. Things that cant be seen can be proven to be seen scientifically (bacteria ect). Can I look at God in a microscope or scientifically prove he exists? Facts and data about god? All there is a book someone wrote... do you know that person even wrote the real tale? Were they just a lonely person stuck underground making up stories about a person called Jesus. Your argument is invalid.

Can I see god and breathe in god? and then I read a book about god, holy cow its real! I read plenty of non fiction.

Did I miss where science disproved the theory of a higher power?

korsicash

When did this become a vegetarian argument? I believe the OP was trying to get the point across that she believes very strongly in animal rights and animals having the right to reside without us claiming domain/ownership over them. I disagree wholly BUT this has never been about bacon, meat, what to or not to eat in the OP's original thread.

Our ancestors domesticated many animals. This domestication means they can no longer survive without humans. Many domesticated pets enjoy having a way to make their human counter part happy OR to have a job to do. This is why we domesticated them.

I do believe they have a right to be respected and seen as a living breathing being with feelings and the capability to form attachments and love. Also we choose to bring them into our lives and they can not defend themselves which in a whole makes animal abuse all the more disgusting.

Long story short respect living creatures and animal abuse sucks *kitten*....

BeautyFromPain

You contribute nothing to this thread. Why bother finding images to post here without a proper argument?

Because it's funny?

fiveohmike

cosmiquemuffin

I have a dog who doesn't kill animals, she don't seem to the have the instinct for it. When she spots something she just barks at it and hopes I'll prepare it for her while other dog is like a little hunter. So I'm unsure if all animals who eat meat are quick to pounce if they haven't been taught.

My dogs are like that too! The female is a feisty little killer - she brings me mice and rabbits all the time. But our other boy? He likes to chase and bark, but freaks out when he actually catches anything.

I have the most mild-mannered, loving dog, but the first time Tank saw a chicken, he went COMPLETELY primal and dispatched it in a way that did his wolf ancestors proud... it was really weird to see. Like Jekyll and Hyde...

mandydoll

Humans are only at the top of the food chain because we have weapons. Take those objects away and we would get our *kitten* kicked. I really hope man kind gets a wake up call, and soon.

BeautyFromPain

You contribute nothing to this thread. Why bother finding images to post here without a proper argument?

My argument is this:

PETA are effin idiots

Animal Cruelty sucks, I have pitbull rescues.

I eat meat, its tasty, and has many nutrients that the body needs

People in this thread have first world problems.

:laugh: