Honest answers only
Replies
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Why do we need to have a conversation about whether or not we all approve or disapprove of a particular sexual orientation/preference/lifestyle?
Would we really have the same discussion about whether we're pro or anti heterosexual? And if you're not, then why not?
Seems kinda one-sided to me.
Personally, I'm OK with homosexual people. I'm much more interested in what kind of person they are than what gender they're attracted to.
That said, I don't need to be slapped in the face with LGBT parades and such. IMO, if you go about drawing attention to yourself like that then you'll always be perceived as different. If someone wants to be accepted and treated just like "the rest of the world", then they need to stop proclaiming how different they are...0 -
oh oops. I misread the initial OP! Sorry!
I wouldn't post such a topic. Because honestly, if I had friends that were homophobes...we could quite possibly cease to be friends.
Religious reasons or not.0 -
Honestly, how can you want an honest answer but forbid talk of the bible if someone believes in the bible?
Do you believe that a woman who is raped is obligated to marry her attacker?
Do you believe that if your child is disobedient, he should be stoned to death?
There are many things in the Bible that simply aren't applicable or that are downright ludicrous.
I'm a believer in a higher power....I have faith in the innate goodness of mankind.
I also accept that the Bible was written by men and men are imperfect and often wrong.....
i LOVE you ^^
I'm not antigay, I see nothing wrong with it. My dads real father is gay, I don't call him Grandpa because he was never a part of my life not because he's gay. I have many homosexual friends and love them to death. It's their life, if they're happy who are we to stand in the way?0 -
:flowerforyou:
Well said!Honestly, how can you want an honest answer but forbid talk of the bible if someone believes in the bible?
Do you believe that a woman who is raped is obligated to marry her attacker?
Do you believe that if your child is disobedient, he should be stoned to death?
There are many things in the Bible that simply aren't applicable or that are downright ludicrous.
I'm a believer in a higher power....I have faith in the innate goodness of mankind.
I also accept that the Bible was written by men and men are imperfect and often wrong.....0 -
I agree that people who push their cause, whatever it be (I notice it most with religion), disproportionately in normal/unrelated conversation, are annoying. I'm sorry those are the only gay people you're meeting, because that hasn't been my experience at all. Except, I should add, for those that are just recently out -- and that's sort of a natural pendulum effect; people who are insecure and expecting attack will often go on the offensive.I'm opposed to the militant approach some people take when addressing their sexuality. Some of the time there seems to be a rather in-your-face kind of attitude that's presented, and I don't really understand the reasoning. I have family that's homosexual, and friends that are as well, but oftentimes it can get wearing when it's constantly brought to one's attention. Whatever happened to identifying oneself as "a baker" or "avid reader" or "fan of rugby" or so on?
I don't want to get a mental image of people doing their thing every time I have a conversation. It's one thing to hug or kiss or hold hands in front of someone, and it's a whole other bear when a person is constantly bringing up their sexual orientation. Sometimes I just want to tell them: I don't incessantly discuss my sexual escapades or proclivities, why do you? People aren't two-dimensional, and yet so often it seems to be the case when interacting with the homosexual community.0 -
Just thought I'd mention, and I'm making the assumption you're referring to the Miss Universe contestant, but that is not a case of 'a gay' competing against 'real women', but a case of a post-operative transsexual (who is a real woman) competing against other women (who we assume to be real women as well).
Interesting point, what makes up a "real" woman (or man for that matter)? Is it external appearance alone? Is it how a person feels in their head? Or is it they have specific reproductive organs from birth?
If a transsexual should be able to compete in the Miss Universe pageant, should a transsexual be able to compete in gender specific sports? Would that give them unfair advantages?
It's a seemingly simple sounding question that can have quite a large broader impact...0 -
I was never against homosexuality even when I still believed in the bible. I no longer believe in the bible since I've read certain passages (like the one about stoning your children when they don't obey and the one about a virgin woman who was raped being forced to marry her rapist).
I can't bring myself to believe that the God who is supposed to love and care for us would have us stoned just for being a homosexual or for disobeying our parents. I believe in God, but not the god of the bible. I believe in a loving God who cares for his children and loves them no matter what. I don't believe in a god who would condemn us for living our lives a certain way, especially since he created us. Why would he condemn us for being the way he made us?
So I will forever be in favor of homosexual rights including gay marriage and the right for homosexuals to adopt children.
And for those who believe that homosexuality is unnatural: certain animals like the dolphin, penguin, and even dogs perform sexual acts on those of the same gender all the time. In fact, I've seen a male dog mount a male dog on several occasions. There's nothing "unnatural" about it.0 -
People are anti-gay because a religious book written by people many centuries ago tells them it is an abomination, and people will find ANY reason to hate someone who is different than they are.
That same book also tells you not to judge others, and to treat them as you would have yourself be treated.
I don't think it is only religious people who are anti-gay. I think there are religious people who are just fine with homosexuality. And I think there are non-religious people who are not fine with it.
I think it's dangerous to group people together like you did. It's very narrow-minded.0 -
To the person who wrote:
If someone wants to be accepted and treated just like "the rest of the world", then they need to stop proclaiming how different they are...
My response:
I'm different. I'm half Mexican. With all these new immigration laws being pushed I'm hearing racist remarks (not to me directly), but hey....I'm not gonna hide my nationality just for fear of backlash. I'm gonna let anyone and everyone know because I'm proud of my Mexican side. So why would gays need to hide their pride?0 -
Because we want answers from people that can actually think for themselves and not rely on some fictional book for everything.Honestly, how can you want an honest answer but forbid talk of the bible if someone believes in the bible?
Exactly! Thank you!!!!
^^ THIS. The fact that people believe in a book that was written years ago boggles my mind. I can write a book today and in 2000 years from now people will believe what i have written??? Does that even seem right to you? Let's not forget how the book has been changed over the years(Nicene Council) . Basically making women and black people men's slaves.. but that is another thread...0 -
I agree that people who push their cause, whatever it be (I notice it most with religion), disproportionately in normal/unrelated conversation, are annoying. I'm sorry those are the only gay people you're meeting, because that hasn't been my experience at all. Except, I should add, for those that are just recently out -- and that's sort of a natural pendulum effect; people who are insecure and expecting attack will often go on the offensive.I'm opposed to the militant approach some people take when addressing their sexuality. Some of the time there seems to be a rather in-your-face kind of attitude that's presented, and I don't really understand the reasoning. I have family that's homosexual, and friends that are as well, but oftentimes it can get wearing when it's constantly brought to one's attention. Whatever happened to identifying oneself as "a baker" or "avid reader" or "fan of rugby" or so on?
I don't want to get a mental image of people doing their thing every time I have a conversation. It's one thing to hug or kiss or hold hands in front of someone, and it's a whole other bear when a person is constantly bringing up their sexual orientation. Sometimes I just want to tell them: I don't incessantly discuss my sexual escapades or proclivities, why do you? People aren't two-dimensional, and yet so often it seems to be the case when interacting with the homosexual community.
I'm proud to say I have only known (personally) one guy that was like that, and it was super-extreme. He would only watch films that were ranked 'gay & lesbian', was into all of the 'stereotypically gay' things, talked with a lisp, the whole nine yards. When watching Queer As Folk he would whine and complain when the lesbians got screen time, criticized other people for not having innate 'gay fashion/decorating sense' and never missed a chance to talk about the latest 'yummy boy' he saw.
I've come across it much more in trans*, where EVERYTHING is about their trans* status, or because they are trans. Then it's not even fitting a stereotype as being pushy and crude.
I have to agree with this OP, that I wish more people would stop introducing themselves by a facet of who they are, because it robs both their new acquaintance and themselves of the wonderful modge-podge of interests, hobbies, talents, inclinations and simply put parts of what makes them who they are.
And because saying stuff like this has gotten me hate before, this is not an endorsement that people should hide or be ashamed of their GLBT 'status', but that it shouldn't be the defining characteristic they push to be recognized for. Be recognized for all of you.0 -
I'd actually say that people use their religion to justify their homophobia. There are plenty of non-religious homophobes out there too.
totally agree! I've noticed Christians get very nasty when you ask them, 'Do you believe God created all of us?' (YES) 'Then why did he create homosexuals if he hates them?'
God doesn't hate anyone. He hates sin. And God did not create people to be gay. He would not create you a certain way and then tell you not to be that way. This world is tainted is sin and isn't anywhere near what God created it to be. But asking why God created someone if He hates them?? No, He doesn't hate. Even if you find yourself in Hell you will go there loved. Which now you will probably ask "if God loves us why would He send us to Hell"? He doesn't send anyone there, you choose it. He gave us all a free will and we can choose to obey His word or not. It's up to each one of us as individuals.
I agree with you on this one!0 -
To quote a favourite movie.
"The Bible was Written, by Man. Interpreted, by Man, and has been Abused, By Man!"0 -
Some people need someone else (or a book) to tell them what to think. I am not one of those people and I am not anti-gay.0
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Just thought I'd mention, and I'm making the assumption you're referring to the Miss Universe contestant, but that is not a case of 'a gay' competing against 'real women', but a case of a post-operative transsexual (who is a real woman) competing against other women (who we assume to be real women as well).
Interesting point, what makes up a "real" woman (or man for that matter)? Is it external appearance alone? Is it how a person feels in their head? Or is it they have specific reproductive organs from birth?
If a transsexual should be able to compete in the Miss Universe pageant, should a transsexual be able to compete in gender specific sports? Would that give them unfair advantages?
It's a seemingly simple sounding question that can have quite a large broader impact...
At present, gendered sports are trouble because it relies on what can be considered 'performance enhancement', in that if a MTF transsexual were to stop taking their estrogen before an event, their testosterone would increase in a manner similar to taking steroids and give them an unfair advantage. The only way to ensure things like this don't affect results is to dehumanize the individual and put them under constant monitoring.
In the case of Miss Universe, and to avoid the hot button of the broad issue, she has all of the functioning parts of any 'real woman', giving the concession that many 'real women' cannot reproduce and even more lack reproductive organs due to surgery. Her bloodwork would not indicate she is a man, her hormone levels would not, and the only 'biological indicator' that would 'betray' her is chromosomes, but chromosomes are weak evidence at best, as they can easily be corrupted naturally and produce dozens of combinations with varied effects.
EDIT: To be equal, if you were to judge sex by organs, an FTM who has been on HRT for an extended time could technically be seen as a 'woman' for an unfair advantage in gendered sports as well, again for the equivalent of taken PIDs. It's a murky grey-area that at best dehumanizes, so for now, being in gendered sports rules out those who are 'in transition'. In the case of someone who has been through surgery, it could be possible to 'control' the HRT PID effect due to the lack of hormone producing biology, but that isn't to say pre-/non-operative trans* are any less 'real' than their finished counterparts.0 -
God doesn't hate anyone. He hates sin. And God did not create people to be gay. He would not create you a certain way and then tell you not to be that way. This world is tainted is sin and isn't anywhere near what God created it to be. But asking why God created someone if He hates them?? No, He doesn't hate. Even if you find yourself in Hell you will go there loved. Which now you will probably ask "if God loves us why would He send us to Hell"? He doesn't send anyone there, you choose it. He gave us all a free will and we can choose to obey His word or not. It's up to each one of us as individuals.
I agree with you on this one!
Again, I have to ask...do you guys believe that God WROTE the Bible? This is a book written by MAN (in an ancient language nobody uses anymore) and interpreted over and over by MAN, which means large portions are most likely inaccurately transcribed.
Its just a centuries long version of that old "telephone" game, where the stories change every time something is retold.0 -
I always have to wonder how anti-gay people seem to have a complete lack of empathy for others. Imagine if the world was the opposite and gay couplings were the socially accepted norm and by being straight you were the minority. Sexual preference hurts no body. It's simple, just judge people on their character.0
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Because we want answers from people that can actually think for themselves and not rely on some fictional book for everything.Honestly, how can you want an honest answer but forbid talk of the bible if someone believes in the bible?
Exactly! Thank you!!!!
^^ THIS. The fact that people believe in a book that was written years ago boggles my mind. I can write a book today and in 2000 years from now people will believe what i have written??? Does that even seem right to you? Let's not forget how the book has been changed over the years(Nicene Council) . Basically making women and black people men's slaves.. but that is another thread...
What you do not understand is that it is not just a book! The gospel is the power of God that brings salvation. It is not simple philosophy, or a collection of religion, rules and regulations. It is powerful! It can do what the self-help books cannot, and that is to heal and change you. You speak of slavery - Jesus showed people - all need salvation- from the hardened criminal to the religious leader. The Bible says there is neither Greek nor Jew, male. Or female , we are all one in Christ Jesus!0 -
"Religion is like a penis. You can love it, but don't take it out in public and wave it around and don't try to shove it down my throat."
~Unknown (but brilliant)
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People are anti-gay because a religious book written by people many centuries ago tells them it is an abomination, and people will find ANY reason to hate someone who is different than they are.
That same book also tells you not to judge others, and to treat them as you would have yourself be treated.
like... && agree0 -
People are anti-gay because a religious book written by people many centuries ago tells them it is an abomination, and people will find ANY reason to hate someone who is different than they are.
That same book also tells you not to judge others, and to treat them as you would have yourself be treated.
Best Answer.0 -
Because we want answers from people that can actually think for themselves and not rely on some fictional book for everything.Honestly, how can you want an honest answer but forbid talk of the bible if someone believes in the bible?
Exactly! Thank you!!!!
^^ THIS. The fact that people believe in a book that was written years ago boggles my mind. I can write a book today and in 2000 years from now people will believe what i have written??? Does that even seem right to you? Let's not forget how the book has been changed over the years(Nicene Council) . Basically making women and black people men's slaves.. but that is another thread...
What you do not understand is that it is not just a book! The gospel is the power of God that brings salvation. It is. It philosophy, religion, rules and regulations. It is powerful! It can do what the self-help books cannot, and that is to heal and change you. You speak of slavery - Jesus showed people - all need salvation- from the hardened criminal to the religious leader. The Bible says there is neither Greek nor Jew, male. Or female , we are all one in Christ Jesus!
Faith brings salvation........a book does not.
The Bible was written by men, thousands of years ago, and interpreted (quite poorly, I assume) many, many, many times over countless different languages......again, written by MEN and NOT by God.0 -
There are many reasons why people are "anti-gay", and the typical arguments are:
"it's in the bible that being gay is wrong / it's a sin"
"it's not natural" / "It's supposed to be adam and eve, not adam and steve" (people who say this are usually proud because they feel saying this makes them clever.)
"it's a choice to be gay"
"it goes against gods' plan" (cue more religious rambling)
All of these are non-sensical arguments that can be easily argued against due to their lack of logic.
Usually, when people cite the bible, they do so in a cherry-picking sort of way which ignores any message that may differ from their argument, and only include the reasons in the bible that matches what they feel about it.
If you are homophobic, you're a bigot, plain and simple.0 -
Where do people find it in Bible? I am religious and we first of all believe that we shall love and respect everyone. I know an american gay couple with wonderful kids and they are just great and they give so much love to their children, they give them education and take care of them that not all usual couples do0
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You know what I find odd? The fact that i've actually been targeted at school one by a gay kid because he automatically assumed I wouldn't like him because i'm Muslim. I know everyone is constantly talking about religion, and I see what why people relate homophobia to religion..but they're constantly directing their religion bashing at christains. Okay. Well, what about all the other religions out there?
I'm Muslim, and let me say this from the get go: I believe every single person is entitled to their own beliefs and every single person is allowed to live how they choose. The Quran also says this. It specifically states to act towards a person just as you would to your own sibling, or mother. Utmost respect regardless of religion, orientation, nationality, etc etc. Personal beliefs are limited, you're not supposed to believe that being gay is right. It's considered a sin, but you have absolutely NO RIGHT to judge others. (I honestly do not agree with that tid bit. If you're gay, well, then, that's cool. I don't think you're wrong, I don't think you should be treated differently now or during judgement..but that's another very very long story that isn't quite relevant to the point i'm trying to make.)
Basically: you can NOT blame religion for a persons intolerance or ignorance. Everyone has a brain of their own. You think being gay is wrong? Fine. NO ONE SAID YOU HAD TO GO OUT AND SPEND THE NIGHT AT A GAY BAR AS INITIATION WHEN IT COMES TO BEING TOLERANT.
What you have a choice in: Whether you personally believe being gay is right or wrong.
What you do not have a choice in: Being tolerant.0 -
You know what I find odd? The fact that i've actually been targeted at school one by a gay kid because he automatically assumed I wouldn't like him because i'm Muslim. I know everyone is constantly talking about religion, and I see what why people relate homophobia to religion..but they're constantly directing their religion bashing at christains. Okay. Well, what about all the other religions out there?
I'm Muslim, and let me say this from the get go: I believe every single person is entitled to their own beliefs and every single person is allowed to live how they choose. The Quran also says this. It specifically states to act towards a person just as you would to your own sibling, or mother. Utmost respect regardless of religion, orientation, nationality, etc etc. Personal beliefs are limited, you're not supposed to believe that being gay is right. It's considered a sin, but you have absolutely NO RIGHT to judge others. (I honestly do not agree with that tid bit. If you're gay, well, then, that's cool. I don't think you're wrong, I don't think you should be treated differently now or during judgement..but that's another very very long story that isn't quite relevant to the point i'm trying to make.)
Basically: you can NOT blame religion for a persons intolerance or ignorance. Everyone has a brain of their own. You think being gay is wrong? Fine. NO ONE SAID YOU HAD TO GO OUT AND SPEND THE NIGHT AT A GAY BAR AS INITIATION WHEN IT COMES TO BEING TOLERANT.
What you have a choice in: Whether you personally believe being gay is right or wrong.
What you do not have a choice in: Being tolerant.
Mostly this, although I prefer acceptance over tolerance. "Tolerance" is a kind of silent hatred or annoyance. It's like "well, I don't WANT to accept gay people .. but I guess ... I have to ... maybe."
Acceptance is more "okay, that's fine with me."0 -
At present, gendered sports are trouble because it relies on what can be considered 'performance enhancement', in that if a MTF transsexual were to stop taking their estrogen before an event, their testosterone would increase in a manner similar to taking steroids and give them an unfair advantage. The only way to ensure things like this don't affect results is to dehumanize the individual and put them under constant monitoring.
In the case of Miss Universe, and to avoid the hot button of the broad issue, she has all of the functioning parts of any 'real woman', giving the concession that many 'real women' cannot reproduce and even more lack reproductive organs due to surgery. Her bloodwork would not indicate she is a man, her hormone levels would not, and the only 'biological indicator' that would 'betray' her is chromosomes, but chromosomes are weak evidence at best, as they can easily be corrupted naturally and produce dozens of combinations with varied effects.
EDIT: To be equal, if you were to judge sex by organs, an FTM who has been on HRT for an extended time could technically be seen as a 'woman' for an unfair advantage in gendered sports as well, again for the equivalent of taken PIDs. It's a murky grey-area that at best dehumanizes, so for now, being in gendered sports rules out those who are 'in transition'. In the case of someone who has been through surgery, it could be possible to 'control' the HRT PID effect due to the lack of hormone producing biology, but that isn't to say pre-/non-operative trans* are any less 'real' than their finished counterparts.
And then you have issues like Caster Semenya, who due to a condition she has had since birth produces more testosterone, etc. She has had nothing but trouble because of that condition as well. It's this and other issues that are coming to light in today's time that has never really been dealt with before. And, since it's new, it scares people because they don't really want to think about it and talk about it, they would rather sweep it under the rug. I feel though, if we bring the issue out into the open, it won't be as scary nor taboo to discuss anymore.
Whatever a transgendered person wants to do they should be able to do. But, if the decision is made to ban transgendered athletes from a competition, then we have to look even deeper into that competition. If they are banned due to an "unfair advantage" then shouldn't the same process be done for non-transgendered as well? For instance, Michael Phelps, he has a freakishly long torso and upper arms, which gives him an advantage over "normal" swimmers. So if a transgendered person is banned, shouldn't he be as well?0 -
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