PSU Punishment...

oregonzoo

My sister will be attending PSU in the fall so maybe that's why I have a certain view. I feel this punishes the students more than the administration. It doesn't seem fair to not let them play in bowls for the next four years. What about all the football players there who aren't even allowed to transfer immediately, there are careers on the line here. It is too student focused I think and not enough on the administration.

Per the NCAA all players are allowed to leave immediately and without penalty. :flowerforyou:

exactly

couponfun

one of the girls i graduated high school with has a son who was given a 4 year full ride football scholarship, and just entering his freshman year... how is this fair to him? he did nothing wrong and now he is totally screwed.

He can transfer.

Yes, but who's going to offer him a deal at this point? Summer training camps are set to start, teams are in place, enrollment is complete for classes. Who has another full ride in their budget?

There are actually a number of big time schools that are below scholarships right now and would have room. It kind of depends on when the program starts school/workouts.

rml_16

one of the girls i graduated high school with has a son who was given a 4 year full ride football scholarship, and just entering his freshman year... how is this fair to him? he did nothing wrong and now he is totally screwed.

He can transfer.

Yes, but who's going to offer him a deal at this point? Summer training camps are set to start, teams are in place, enrollment is complete for classes. Who has another full ride in their budget?

Are you paying attention? They can take their scholarships with them. (And most freshmen are red-shirted, anyway.)

ChappyEight

Honestly, if this were my child I'd want recourse against each individual.

That's the legal system's job.

LorinaLynn

one of the girls i graduated high school with has a son who was given a 4 year full ride football scholarship, and just entering his freshman year... how is this fair to him? he did nothing wrong and now he is totally screwed.

Are they taking away his scholarship? Because otherwise... I can't see how someone who's going to a great university without having to pay tuition is "totally screwed."

ChappyEight

While I know very little about the situation as a whole, this punishment seems to penalise current and future students more than those who might reasonably have been believed to be involved/to have turned a blind eye. The removal of scholarships in particular will make it very, very hard for some student athletes to complete their education, which seems unjust to me.

I don't know a lot of details about this situation, so excuse my ignorance, why are they removing scholarships?

There are no scholarships being removed. Current players keep their scholarships. The school is afforded fewer future scholarships. Big difference.

ChappyEight

Considering this is a state school that receives money from taxpayers, I am not a fan of the $60,000,000 fine.

That money is the equivalent to what the PSU football program earns each year. And that money will now go to a trust which will then be dispersed to various child protection organizations.

CaptainAmerica1970

They covered up child abuse! Child rape! They deserve much worse!

the people that covered that up and were involved with it deserve much worse. the football program should also be properly punished. The death penalty would affect far too many people that were not involved with the scandal whose livelihood depends on the football program.

I agree with this but unfortunately they committed these crimes while representing PSU.

''Football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people,'' Emmert said.

awelch79

Plus it sets an important precedent and sends the message that this will not be tolerated ever again, in any way. If it opens up more transparancy in college sports, I am fine with that! Too many times, things are covered up or dealt with in a less harsh manner simply because someone is a stellar athlete/coach/program.

DaveRCF

As a Canadian I've never understood the importance Americans place on university sports. On first meeting, Americans are just as likely to ask what school you went to instead of where you are from. Weird. A person's identity shouldn't be so tied to the school(s) they went to.

Where I am going with this is that the root cause of this sad and unfortunate mess is the power accorded to those who run football programs at U.S. universities. At Penn State, that power translated into choosing to ignore, for many years, the sexual abuse of young men by an important part of that program.

Punishment fit the crime? Yes. Hit the school where it hurts most, in the wallet. No bowl game appearances etc. will have a significant blow to the program, translating into lower revenue generated by football and the need for the university to fill the gap in other ways.

Will this hurt the innocent? Of course it will. All those Alums that have proudly stated that they went to Penn State will be hurt, for sure. The current study body will be hurt. Employees will be hurt. So be it. The reputation of Penn State and its ability to attract students was partially predicated on football. As it turns out, people were tricked into worshipping something that they thought stood for something they could be proud of but in fact the opposite was true.

TylerJ76

You know who I'd like to see punished? The parents of the first victims, who knew their child had been abused, that didn't report the abuse to the police. They could've just as easily prevented the later cases as JoPa. They didn't, and now, years later, they are getting monetary rewards. That is just as sick in my opinion.

Do you know any of this for fact?

ninerbuff

I think they should change the name of the University to Pathetic State University for the 4 years too.

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DrMAvDPhD

You know who I'd like to see punished? The parents of the first victims, who knew their child had been abused, that didn't report the abuse to the police. They could've just as easily prevented the later cases as JoPa. They didn't, and now, years later, they are getting monetary rewards. That is just as sick in my opinion.

Do you know any of this for fact?

From Wiki, so maybe not fact but usually a good starting point:
"The investigation was initiated in the spring of 2008, after the mother of a boy (identified in court papers as "Victim 1"), then a freshman at Central Mountain High School in Clinton County, Pennsylvania, reported that the boy had been sexually abused by Sandusky. " She clearly didn't "report" to the police or there wouldn't have been a cover-up.

vim_n_vigor

I have mixed feelings on the severity of the punishment and whether it should have been harsher. I can argue on both sides of it. I feel that the ones hit the hardest over and over are the kids. First the kids that were abused, and now the ones in the current and impending future teams are suffering for what some really messed up people decided to do and to cover up.

mmedjjon

inapropriate

how so?

Go after those involed. The student athlete, the progam and the institution do not need to be destroyed. there are a lot of people that are going to be punished that have nothing to with it. Fire administers and people involved, but there are innocent people being punished not just chidren

TylerJ76

You know who I'd like to see punished? The parents of the first victims, who knew their child had been abused, that didn't report the abuse to the police. They could've just as easily prevented the later cases as JoPa. They didn't, and now, years later, they are getting monetary rewards. That is just as sick in my opinion.

Do you know any of this for fact?

From Wiki, so maybe not fact but usually a good starting point:
"The investigation was initiated in the spring of 2008, after the mother of a boy (identified in court papers as "Victim 1"), then a freshman at Central Mountain High School in Clinton County, Pennsylvania, reported that the boy had been sexually abused by Sandusky. " She clearly didn't "report" to the police or there wouldn't have been a cover-up.

2008 was a good 10 years or so after the abuse first started, correct?

DrMAvDPhD

You know who I'd like to see punished? The parents of the first victims, who knew their child had been abused, that didn't report the abuse to the police. They could've just as easily prevented the later cases as JoPa. They didn't, and now, years later, they are getting monetary rewards. That is just as sick in my opinion.

Do you know any of this for fact?

From Wiki, so maybe not fact but usually a good starting point:
"The investigation was initiated in the spring of 2008, after the mother of a boy (identified in court papers as "Victim 1"), then a freshman at Central Mountain High School in Clinton County, Pennsylvania, reported that the boy had been sexually abused by Sandusky. " She clearly didn't "report" to the police or there wouldn't have been a cover-up.

2008 was a good 10 years or so after the abuse first started, correct?

Just an example. This was the most clear case I could find of a parent reporting the abuse to the wrong people, and it still happened 3 years before this all went to light which is an ETERNITY. But if you study the "timelines" out there, there are other cases where the parents were clearly at least very suspicious of abuse but didn't go right to the police.

If I had even the remotest inkling that my child had been abused, I wouldn't have reported it to the people who were there and responsible, I would've been taking my suspicions to the police. Going to the University itself stinks of asking for money/compensation no matter how you look at it.

I do not claim that the legions of people who took place in the cover-up don't deserve to be punished, but I really hate the idea that parents knew about this **** and didn't do anything to protect other people's children from the same.

EDIT: From http://www.npr.org/2011/11/08/142111804/penn-state-abuse-scandal-a-guide-and-timeline

1998: An 11-year-old boy returns home with wet hair after an outing with Sandusky. Victim 6 tells his mother he took a shower with Sandusky and that the coach hugged him several times. The boy's mother contacts university police, triggering an investigation.

Laces_0ut

Not. This is punishing PLAYERS for illegal behaviors of coaches. Those students did nothing wrong, and the ones who are already at or committed to PSU did nothing wrong. I also don't think it is appropriate for the NCAA to dole out punishment for illegal activities not related to sports, that is what the judicial system is for.

how is this NOT related to sports? the football program covered up child rape in order to maintain a competitive advantage. this exactly the kind of thing the NCAA needs to punish. it also makes other schools think twice about doing the same thing.

as for current student athletes they are allowed to transfer right now without penalty.

castadiva

Think the penalties are fine, especially since they said all Penn State players may transfer without penalty AND they don't count against their new school's scholarship total. Also per NCAA "Any entering or returning football student-athlete will be allowed to immediately transfer and will be eligible to immediately compete at the transfer institution, provided he is otherwise eligible. Any football student-athlete who wants to remain at the University may retain his athletic grant-in-aid, as long as he meets and maintains applicable academic requirements, regardless of whether he competes on the football team."


If I'm these kids, I work out, study for a year, then treat the year like free agency and go find somewhere good to play. Right now most teams are set but they might find a few takers.

Thanks for clarifying that aspect. Still pretty hard for the players who are unable to find transfer berths, and given the nature of football, some of them will find it very hard to get their careers back on track if they're forced to take a year out from playing, but at least they won't be losing their educational prospects as well, which is, after all, what college is supposed to be about, even for student athletes!

DrMAvDPhD

Not. This is punishing PLAYERS for illegal behaviors of coaches. Those students did nothing wrong, and the ones who are already at or committed to PSU did nothing wrong. I also don't think it is appropriate for the NCAA to dole out punishment for illegal activities not related to sports, that is what the judicial system is for.

how is this NOT related to sports? the football program covered up child rape in order to maintain a competitive advantage. this exactly the kind of thing the NCAA needs to punish. it also makes other schools think twice about doing the same thing.

as for current student athletes they are allowed to transfer right now without penalty.

No, covering this up doesn't maintain a competitive advantage. It maintained the public image of the program, but had nothing to do with the way that football was played. The coach in question was removed from his coaching position pretty much immediately after his superiors found out, although he was allowed to stay in a non-coaching position at the university.