Why are people on these forums so mean?

opuntia

@ZugTheMegasaurus I agree that a short sharp shock can be effective, if it comes at the right time and from the right source - something similar happened to someone I'm close to. Well, in her case she realised that what she was doing to her body was destroying her good looks - and that was such a shock to her, as she'd always been very good-looking and quite vain about it, that it was enough to spur her into recovery. Obviously that's quite a superficial shock compared to yours, but somehow it was the only thing that got through to her - she'd heard many times she might end dying a horrible death, and she didn't care about that.

Not sure how the shock treatment would transfer into a forum setting - people seem to be saying the same thing so often that it surely has lost its shock value. And of course different things will shock different people. And a person needs to be at a point where they're ready to change, which I imagine many aren't. I guess it's possible though, that something someone says will be the catalyst for positive change for someone. I always take the view with my posts that if it's had a positive impact on just one person, then it's been worth it, even if everyone else disregards or scoffs. And I would say the same about anyone's posts. So long, of course, that they're not also causing damage to others. Guess it can be a difficult line to tread.

tbodega

Some people are just ignorant or jerks. Best to just not "feed the trolls" and stick to dealing with more mature and positive people.

With that said, I could use some more social positive friends on here myself.

ZugTheMegasaurus

Not sure how the shock treatment would transfer into a forum setting - people seem to be saying the same thing so often that it surely has lost its shock value. And of course different things will shock different people. And a person needs to be at a point where they're ready to change, which I imagine many aren't. I guess it's possible though, that something someone says will be the catalyst for positive change for someone. I always take the view with my posts that if it's had a positive impact on just one person, then it's been worth it, even if everyone else disregards or scoffs. And I would say the same about anyone's posts. So long, of course, that they're not also causing damage to others. Guess it can be a difficult line to tread.

I don't think a forum post will be the thing that sets someone off either. But it's reinforcement, even if it happens before the major wake up call. I can't tell you how many times I heard AA members warn about drinking or psychiatrists warn about the signs of depression and didn't take it seriously. But when I finally did get that wakeup call, all those things suddenly mattered. Everything I'd ignored and rationalized away came screaming back at me. All those little tips, those little things I thought were stupid and trite and cliche seemed very wise all of a sudden. When someone decides to get help and then suddenly realizes, "OMG, all those people were right and I just didn't get it," it can be incredibly helpful, even empowering.

PS2CR

You're wrong. There are plenty of people with an ED who advertise it. They are not all quiet about it, and some do try to rally new frineds. You may not have seen it here, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

To be fair, people who glamorise a harmful mental illness that they have usually have another sort of mental illness as well. They're not mentally well at all. They need help, not judgement - and it's part of their illness that they won't accept help.

As for people who talk about it, that is not necessarily the same as advocating it or glamorising it. People shouldn't have to be secretive about whatever disorder they have. They may well have to be secretive in real life and so feel the need for somewhere to be themselves without shame. And of course they want friends like themselves, because those are the people who really understand.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding around mental illness. It's like when people say people with depression aren't trying to help themselves. People often simply aren't able to help themselves - they can't get the motivation. Their brain is ill and isn't letting them.

To give a different sort of example, I have Asperger Syndrome (now does saying that mean I'm 'advertising' it? Do people read that as me saying 'Hey, Asperger Syndrome is great - everyone else should have it too!'). That is not a mental illness, but it is a neurological difference/disorder. ...

That it's all about mind over matter. But it's not the same struggle for someone who has a mental or neurological disorder. Just like an able bodied person may have a lot of difficulty in their struggle to start running and work up to running a marathon, but they can't then say to someone with a severe mobility disability - 'Hey, it's mind over matter! You have to be tough, and then you'll be able to run! I did it, so you can too! Stop making excuses! You just don't want to help yourself' The person with the disability may well be able to do some exercise - but it's going to be totally different, and the strategies employed to achieve it will be totally different. And the help they will need with it is likely to be a lot more specialised than that of some random non-disabled person who happens to have taken up running.

Somehow it's easier for people to understand physical disabilities than to understand mental or neurological ones.

There is, however, a importance difference between having a mental illness such as an eating disorder or depression, and having a neurological difference (eg. Asperger's or Tourette). (And I speak from professional background/degree as well as family experience with all four.) The difference is, the ED or depressed person is still able to choose whether or not to get help via professional counseling and therapy to alleviate or eventually find healing from the eating disorder or depression. So when we say 'she has a choice' we mean, 'she has a choice to take action' toward recovery or not. Making excuses why one 'can't' take action and get therapy or help is simply a passive-aggressive way of saying, "I don't choose that option right now."

One of my children was diagnosed with a neurological disorder on the Autism spectrum...and I know that no 'choice' that child of mine made would change or cure that condition. That sort of condition has no ultimate cure, no matter how much counseling and/or medication. But then again, there are many positive qualities about people with conditions on that spectrum that our society does not fully appreciate, and that I have discovered with this child (who has a demanding job in the IT field today). So, with all respect, opuntia, I don't think your analogy fully applies. Neurological disorders I would characterize as differences and challenges as opposed to emotional/mental illnesses which could lead to self-inflicted death if the person didn't take action to seek recovery.

I am probably one of the 'mean' ones the OP was referring to, as I was respectful but direct in my response to one of her MFP buddies in two threads started last week. As this buddy admitted to disordered eating in the threads she'd started (also on her profile), and anxiety about her diet and looks, I told her she needed therapy, and that she wouldn't find the help she needs on here. (Friends with the same issues wanting validation, certainly. Positive help, no.) I have intimate knowledge of how the eating disordered mind can work, having had food 'issues' since my first Slim Fast diet at age 13 or 14. In my teens I frequently crash-dieted, lost weight until my period stopped, etc. but they didn't diagnose ED much back then (Twiggy era). In my 40s, after a sudden series of life changes and family crises, I experienced a major clinicial depression which morphed into anorexic eating habits again (lost about 30% body weight), so I know experientially how one with those types of disorders thinks. It was FAR easier to admit I needed help with the depression. With the ED, to be frank, skewed thinking about food is so prevalent in America, it is still extremely easy to justify, especially if you tell yourself you're 'eating HEALTHY.' There are plenty of folks you can find who will support your disordered way of thinking as well as your disordered perception of what looks 'fat'. Plus, it's so easy to make your eating goals sound good, noble, even lofty. It's part of the disorder...anorexia tends to happen to perfectionistic yet passive people, those who are used to having strong-willed others in life make the decisions for them (even though they probably aren't happy about it). The disorder is often the first (and sometimes final) acting out of defiant self-will for these individuals.

So...when you come right down to it, the ED person still does have the ability to exert that same strong will to make the phone call necessary for therapy, and with that, could recover. So in that sense, they do "choose" to stay in their illness or choose the journey towards health. Sadly, the ED person is in a serious catch-22 because seeking help would end the precious rush of finally feeling 'in control.' The ED person will never seek help, would rather die (really and truly...I remember) than seek 'help' to hand over the reins of control again. Being passive, it's much more pleasant to receive attention, sympathy, and have folks tiptoe on eggshells around YOU for a change, anyway. The only way to truly help an ED person is to make sure they still have their hands on the reins. You DON'T help that person by talking to them like a small child, 'there, there, honey'...or speaking fluffy-talk to them. You speak to them directly about what THEY are doing, and ask to consider if that is the choice THEY are wanting to make, to be responsible for.

I didn't get well until I took responsibility for making the decision on my own to get well. I suddenly realized one day (agonizing over a food choice) that I wasn't in control after all, that it was all an illusion. My diet and my compulsion--my disorder--actually was in control of my life, down to each stupid, agonizing moment. That's exactly when I decided I wanted to take control back, and then chose to get help to change my disordered thinking.

LorinaLynn

Another factor - and it's something that I've probably seen more on my own dating forum than on here - is when it's pretty clear that someone's problem is beyond the grasp of a forum, whether it's a suspected eating disorder on here, or cases of depression or abuse on my site, the second you suggest to someone that the need professional help, you're accused of being mean, calling them crazy, not being helpful, etc.

Now, in reality, a lot of times the people who say, "You need more help than we can give," are people who've gone through their own emotional battles, have sought professional help, and know that there should be no stigma with getting the needed help. Personally, I see no difference between someone seeing a psychiatrist/therapist and seeing an optometrist. Both are designed to help you see the world more clearly. There should be no more shame in taking a needed prescription anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medication and taking an inhaler for asthma or insulin for diabetes or getting a cast on a broken bone. Some folks - probably most folks - need some kind of extra help in some aspect of their life.

But too often, the people who need help the most never think they need it. :frown:

FlaxMilk

It's interesting what different people see and experience. I tell people all the time when I think they need professional help and have never been attacked for it (even if they don't listen.)

Do yourself a favor and hit ignore for people who ridicule you. People who disagree with you help you grow. People who call you names or belittle you won't. There are times when there is a misunderstanding. But when someone calls you a name, the misunderstanding arguments gets pretty invalid.

Presleyforpresident

people get cranky when theyre hungry

HAHAHHA this is excellent

on top of this i'm going to add that i think the "meaner" people on here are the ones that have been using MFP for months and months and months and years and think they know anything and everything about losing weight.
i think everyone needs to remember that we all started out in the same spot, the beginning, and a little patience and politeness is necessary.

sarakat44

I'm with you, some of the people on hear seem mean spirited and demoralizing. As My Mother would say, If you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all. Hang in there their are some really nice people hear too.

abbybean11

people get cranky when theyre hungry

lol!

Katahna

It's a place where some people can fuel their ego to the point where it is over flowing.

You can not win, when it comes to the internet, it's best to just keep to yourself and laugh at the blatently obvious idiots =]

jemboop

Just love you

jofjltncb6

It's a place where some people can fuel their ego to the point where it is over flowing.

You can not win, when it comes to the internet, it's best to just keep to yourself and laugh at the blatently obvious idiots =]

Unless they're trying to walk their cats...then they're fair game, right?

Malrouke84

Sadly, forums on the internet are nothing like the Forums of ancient Greece during the Age of Stoicism and Thought. Forums, given the history behind the word, are meant to inspire discussion of opinion, of questions and curiosity, and of ingenuity and camraderie - but then we remember that this is the internet, and we now live in an era where we have a Kodak camera on wheels rolling around on Mars taking late summer vacation photos.

The moral of the story here is that when you fish the minds of others, be adequately ready to throw back most of your catches.

xHelloQuincyx

"it's not your place to tell them things that they already tell themselves everyday"
im sorry girl but this is not your place either, kinda hypocritical if you ask me. just because you don't like what other people are saying, dosnt mean you can still post hate about them. be the change you want to see in the world.

lmao.

i tell myself two things when i encounter hateful people.
1. karma. karma. karma
2. if their highlight of their day is bringing me down, their life sucks. so jokes on them.

i work at a high stress high complaint job. when someones really rippin into me, i just make the sillyest surprised look i can. hold that face to get a reaction. then i just say "i can see through you!... see your true colors." that usually makes them leave. works a lot better then punching them in the face and getting fired.

blumuffin46

opuntia

There is, however, a importance difference between having a mental illness such as an eating disorder or depression, and having a neurological difference (eg. Asperger's or Tourette). (And I speak from professional background/degree as well as family experience with all four.) The difference is, the ED or depressed person is still able to choose whether or not to get help via professional counseling and therapy to alleviate or eventually find healing from the eating disorder or depression. So when we say 'she has a choice' we mean, 'she has a choice to take action' toward recovery or not. Making excuses why one 'can't' take action and get therapy or help is simply a passive-aggressive way of saying, "I don't choose that option right now."

One of my children was diagnosed with a neurological disorder on the Autism spectrum...and I know that no 'choice' that child of mine made would change or cure that condition. That sort of condition has no ultimate cure, no matter how much counseling and/or medication. But then again, there are many positive qualities about people with conditions on that spectrum that our society does not fully appreciate, and that I have discovered with this child (who has a demanding job in the IT field today). So, with all respect, opuntia, I don't think your analogy fully applies. Neurological disorders I would characterize as differences and challenges as opposed to emotional/mental illnesses which could lead to self-inflicted death if the person didn't take action to seek recovery.

Lol - yes, I am aware of the differences between mental illnesses and neurological disorders. I think even pointed out that they were different. And of course all analogies break down eventually. However, I still think you are being overly simplistic, and the analogy is more pertinent than you think. And even if I hadn't made the analogy, the points I made about mental illness hold true. And incidentally, I also speak from professional background/degree and family experience.

Perhaps in your professional studies (or even out of personal interest) you have read the research on the genetic similarities between anorexia and the autism spectrum. Well, as you see yourself, you have both in your own family. As do I. That is a common occurrence. There is a theory that anorexia is the female version of Aspergers, although that doesn't really work with me, as I'm a female with Aspergers and not anorexia. But perhaps in general, the genetic neurological difference is more likely to manifest as an ED in a female.

But anyway, an eating disorder isn't wholly curable - it's also a permanent difference in brain wiring. It's not simply a passive and perfectionist personality, any more than Aspergers is simply an eccentric and perfectionist personality. What defines a mental illness and distinguishes it from a neurological disorder is not that it is curable. Someone with an eating disorder can learn to control the behaviour - as can someone on the autism spectrum - but the neurological difference, and the vulnerability, is still there.

Of course there are differences, and of course I know them - but It is in fact possible to tell me that I have a problem and I need to learn to fix it, with regard to certain autistic difficulties - I've been told that many times in the past, and in many cases, the people were right. There were behaviours which were unhelpful to me and I needed to fix. And like someone with anorexia, I could learn strategies to fix them. But when I was overwhelmed (which happens in the autism spectrum, as with eating disorders) my mind couldn't conceive of fixing anything. Actually, having Aspergers is a bit easier than having an ED, in that my perception is clear and logical - I don't get delusions, I don't get depression, I don't get distorted perception. So from that angle, it's a lot easier for me to recognise I need help than it is for someone with an eating disorder.

I wonder, actually, whether it is the skewed self-perception of people with EDs that causes them to blame themselves for not seeking help earlier, and to therefore see other people with EDs as responsible for their own illness, and to blame for not seeking help. In the same way that people who have been bullied often despise themselves for being bullied, and think that people who are being bullied are somehow to blame for being weak.

Or maybe it is a kind of black and white thinking (similar to that which is common in ASDs) which thinks that if a person is able to have control over their life, then clearly they have chosen their eating disorder.

The only way to truly help an ED person is to make sure they still have their hands on the reins. You DON'T help that person by talking to them like a small child, 'there, there, honey'...or speaking fluffy-talk to them. You speak to them directly about what THEY are doing, and ask to consider if that is the choice THEY are wanting to make, to be responsible for.

I don't think I said anything about talking to people with EDs like small children, did I? That would never occur to me as a solution, any more than it's a solution for people on the autism spectrum. People on the autism spectrum are actually very similar here, because a difficulty with ASDs is perceiving one's own control over one's environment. And particularly women on the autism spectrum can be passive - it's why they often go undiagnosed. People on the autism spectrum and people with EDs both have a difficulty with perception of having control, and so they find other ways of control. With EDs, it is food intake. With ASDs, as I'm sure you know, it can be a variety of things, like a need for routine, lining things up, needing to be in control of one's environment.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not recommending people should talk to people with EDs as if they are children. And I don't think I suggested that it's wrong to enable them to understand their own control over their environment (although of course that is not the same as blaming them and declaring that anorexia is a life choice). My main point was that I don't think it's helpful in the slightest for people in the forums to go round saying that people with EDs are dangerous people to be avoided, that they are wilfully choosing to kill themselves, and creating harmful propaganda for others to join them in their death wish, and that if people don't speak up, MFP will soon become a den of mass suicides! (Okay, I exaggerate a little, but really, this is the tone of a lot of the posts I see!). I don't believe that this will help people with EDs learn to understand with healthy perception their own ability to exert control over their lives. If eventually they do get help, such comments are likely to enforce the self-blame they are liable to, and cause them to continue the cycle of blaming others with EDs.

brittbonshor

Because most people think their way is the only way. No one knows that better than a low carber. I get more *kitten* for that than I ever imagined possible, though it clearly works for me. *looks pointedly at ticker and picture*

holy ****!! u've lost over 100lbs!! tell me all your secrets

Jenloma

Best of luck...and ignore the bullies.

artickb22

people get cranky when theyre hungry

LMAO!!

artickb22

Block their *kitten*, don't think about it, problem solved.

oh yes, and this too! LOL