Concealing & carrying pistols while running/working out

MassiveDelta

sjohnny

The case you are referring to was Washington D.C supreme court, not the supreme court. Police departments have been successfully sued when they failed to protect individuals due to negligence. Besides you are are man, so from the looks of your picture you look like you are in great shape. You are not a likely target of an attacker. No one is going to try to rape you. Someone may want to steal what your IPOD or jewelry if you are wearing any, but you can make yourself less of a target by not wearing any. Even if you had something someone wanted to steal, being a man and your size is usually enough of a deterrent. I am a big believer in street smarts and common sense. There was a trail near my home in Brooklyn, it was very busy in the morning and early evening, but pretty desolate in the working hours and at night. If I ran the trail, I used it in the popular hours, otherwise, I ran around my neighborhood, went to the track or went to the gym. Yes I lived in a city, but I have seen high school tracks in even small hick towns. If an environment makes you uncomfortable, avoid that area. Even where you feel safe, keep your eyes open and be aware of your surroundings. Guns and jogging just seem extreme, especially from men who are unlikely targets. You aren't jogging through Syria.

BTW, my previous remarks were directed to the poster who says he/she is completely self-sufficient and only city folks rely on government, when all Americans rely on government services. Remember there is state, local, and federal and you have to basically live under a rock to not need something from the government. Maybe this poster wasn't aware of that since all schools are either government run or receive government funds, he/she must not have attended

I know that I am not a LIKELY target for most criminals at 6'4" and around 200lbs. I also learned long ago how not to look like a victim and that makes a big difference as well. I also am a defensive tactics instructor for my agency so even without a gun I can usually handle myself. That was not my point - and I don't carry when I'm running I don't have a problem with those who do though.

I am also a big believer in street smarts and common sense and carrying yourself in a way that deters those who would victimize others. Beyond that, I am a believer in having the tools available to protect myself when, regardless of maintaining common sense and trying to do everything right, it all goes to ****. And sometimes it does.

There have been other cases besides the DC case where the Supreme Court has held that there is no duty to protect individuals. I can't find them right now.

I am aware that you were addressing the other poster and I also agree with him to the extent that many Americans are increasingly relying on government to provide for them the things that most should be providing for themselves. I admit to using government resources - roads, utilities, etc. (I pay for my childrens' school myself - in addition to my property taxes which pay for school they do not attend) but I do as much as I can to reduce the reliance I place on an already overburdened system.

TyFit08

So your local police department has failed you? Your local District Attorney's office has failed you? Your local fire department has failed you? Your state police department has failed you? Your state legislators and locally elected officials have failed you? Your states National Guard and our Armed Forces have failed you? What a patriot. What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. Your tax dollars pay police, fire and government salaries, they damn well better protect you. That is their job. Someone better be on the other end if I need to call 911 and an officer should respond. We live in a civilized society, where vigilante justice is not the law of the land and if you understood the constitution then you would respect law and order. We are the UNITED States of America, one nation.

And since you are so self- sufficient and need absolutely nothing from the government, then I'm sure you have enough cash to pay for your kids tuition outright, no financial aid, you have no plans of ever getting social security, medicaid or medicare, you don't drive on roads and bridges, you fly over them because you don't need those roads the government built, you use well water instead of municipal water, don't drink that government stuff and your gun is illegal because you wouldn't bother going to to the government to get a concealed carry permit. You really should read what you write before you post, because you can't be serious

Actually, the police do NOT have a duty to protect you as an individual. The Supreme Court rendered a decision to that effect several years ago. The duty of the police is to protect society at large. They are not bound to protect individuals.

I fully plan to call 911 if I need police assistance - when I am able to do so. I also don't have any plans on sitting and waiting for the police to show up and hope nothing bad happens during that time.

It's trite but more often that not true - when seconds count the police are only minutes away.

The case you are referring to was Washington D.C supreme court, not the supreme court. Police departments have been successfully sued when they failed to protect individuals due to negligence. Besides you are are man, so from the looks of your picture you look like you are in great shape. You are not a likely target of an attacker. No one is going to try to rape you. Someone may want to steal what your IPOD or jewelry if you are wearing any, but you can make yourself less of a target by not wearing any. Even if you had something someone wanted to steal, being a man and your size is usually enough of a deterrent. I am a big believer in street smarts and common sense. There was a trail near my home in Brooklyn, it was very busy in the morning and early evening, but pretty desolate in the working hours and at night. If I ran the trail, I used it in the popular hours, otherwise, I ran around my neighborhood, went to the track or went to the gym. Yes I lived in a city, but I have seen high school tracks in even small hick towns. If an environment makes you uncomfortable, avoid that area. Even where you feel safe, keep your eyes open and be aware of your surroundings. Guns and jogging just seem extreme, especially from men who are unlikely targets. You aren't jogging through Syria.

BTW, my previous remarks were directed to the poster who says he/she is completely self-sufficient and only city folks rely on government, when all Americans rely on government services. Remember there is state, local, and federal and you have to basically live under a rock to not need something from the government. Maybe this poster wasn't aware of that since all schools are either government run or receive government funds, he/she must not have attended

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. This is why the uneducated (on gun laws) should not give an uninformed opinion. Example I am a Man and know NOTHING about Tampons therefore I don't weigh in on "TOM" threads. If you don't even know what the laws are regarding LEGAL gun ownership maybe you should not weigh in either.

Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions because I am a journalist and well versed on gun laws, having covered concealed carry land open carry aws in various states. Never have I said that you can shoot someone who wanted to steal your IPOD. But many have posted that they want to protect themselves from attackers, most of these posters are men. But the truth is, as man you are not going to be the target of a rape or kidnap. If anyone targeted you at all, it would most likely be to rob you. Now we all know the threat required to justifiably fire your weapon, (which varies by state btw) but most here have alluded to at least pulling it out if a punk kid tries to mug them. Now while many of you concealed carry permit owners have had to sit through hours of safety training, your attacker has not, which means his/her reaction could cause things to escalate further. The point I made is that being a man is usually enough of a deterrent from would-be attackers and not having anything visible that someone would want to steal only helps more, all of this negating the need for a gun on a jog in the first place.

sjohnny

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

sjohnny

... so from the looks of your picture you look like you are in great shape. ...

Forgot to say:

Thanks!

Marc713

Dear God, running with knives and guns?!?!? What?!?

I am very glad I live in Europe!

me too. scary stuff for sure!

What's scary to me is if the need ever arised to defend yourself or your family you would not have the means to do so. Most people that do not grow up around guns, fear them. Police show up afterwards to file reports. A police officer's weapon is to defend himself, not you. In the U.S., most cities with strict anti-gun laws have the highest crimes. Criminals don't care about the law and will have them anyhow, what keeps them in check are the lawful owners of guns that will defend themselves.

digitalbill

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

sjohnny

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

TyFit08

the question was about how to conceal carry while running or working out, not if you think it is right or wrong. Some people have jobs or requirements that may require different needs than you and others and to tell them they are wrong for that is foolish and ignorant.

That's because some of us, American's included can't fathom why you would need a gun to run. There are treadmills in the gym, there are tracks at the local park or high school, there are well-lit and populated trails. If an area makes you question your safety to the point where you need a gun, maybe you should avoid jogging in that area.

please be my guest...come show me where I can run my 14 mile run on Sat Id love for you to show me all the safe havens of exercise you speak of. I think running 14 miles on a tread mill while training for a marathon will be AMAZING. not to mention ill be Ill prepared for running outdoors. Again you leave in a highly populated metropolitan area to ASSUME that every one has access to everything you do....

I do live in a highly populated area, but I have lived all over the country, and there are parks all over the country. There are neighborhoods all over the country. There are tracks all over the country. So don't say you have to run in the woods by yourself at night because there is no other option. If you must, you can run in the daylight, run with a partner or a dog like many have already suggested. You can get a reflector jacked and run on the side of the road, instead of worrying about attackers you just need to worry about cars. First Europeans and Canadians don't get it, now us city folk don't get it. Don't try to make this sound like every American is packing while they are running, because the concept is quite foreign to many in this country.

Because you dont get it. I have three running trails available to me... One is 20 miles long but 15 miles away. The other two are separated by 4 miles of city 1 is 2.1 miles long and the other is 1.9 miles long. Again my long run is 14 miles on Sat. I will probably run the 20 mile Bike trail that is secluded in the woods where Ill be vulnerable to animal attack. Im employed so I dont get to choose between running in the day or running in the Predawn and Dusk time frames. How many people do you know that are willing and capable (including a dog) to run 14 miles and have a similar schedule to you. Im not trying to make it sound liek every american is packing. Im saying mind your own business and dont tell others what they need when you dont have a clue about their lifestyle or the area they live in. You seem to know my neighborhood better then me. Im telling you when I run streets instead of trails I run through some areas that are dangerous. I DONT CARRY, but Im scared to death in one mile long section. Its low income housing that is notorious for Meth labs and I really dont want to run through a meth deal gone bad some night and wish my pepper spray was enough to stop a tweaking meth head

You have to do what makes you feel safe and comfortable. Many posters, myself included were offering alternatives to an environment that you admit makes you uncomfortable. You do have other options, but they aren't the most convenient and that is fine. If getting a concealed carry permit and a weapon will alleviate some that fear that you currently have, it is your choice and your right. But understand that what makes your feel safe may do the exact opposite for others. Many posters here, myself included aren't comfortable with the idea of guns on the running trail. The training for concealed carry varies from state to state, and some are quite minimal. Obviously some owners know what they are doing, but there variation in the training from state to state makes it hard for me to trust that all owners respect the power of the weapon they are carrying. .

TyFit08

... so from the looks of your picture you look like you are in great shape. ...

Forgot to say:

Thanks!

Your Welcome

TyFit08

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

Some people will snatch it and run.

sjohnny

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

Some people will snatch it and run.

Then we go from long slow run to speed work.

TyFit08

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

Some people will snatch it and run.

Then we go from long slow run to speed work.

Maybe muggers should be planted through out the trail for interval training, now a gun would just ruin that cuz you'd just take them out instead of chasing them.

trackercasey76

Everyone keeps mentioning laws, but I think most will agree that criminals will not follow laws. From what I can Find it looks like approximately 95% of of gun crime is committed by people using guns obtained illegally. And to our "Holier than thou" fiends across the pond. Excluding Rape and Murder YOU have a higher Violent Crime rate then the US.

digitalbill

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

Some people will snatch it and run.

And some will kill you reguardless.
Are you willing to make that gamble?

sjohnny

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

Some people will snatch it and run.

Then we go from long slow run to speed work.

Maybe muggers should be planted through out the trail for interval training, now a gun would just ruin that cuz you'd just take them out instead of chasing them.

Then you'd also have the extra calorie burn from beating the **** out of them when you caught them.

TyFit08

I think Chris Rock said it best, guns don't kill people, bullets kill people. He said a bullet should be $10,000 then there would be no such thing as innocent bystanders and I must add mass shootings.

shabaity

ppl may not like it but on the occasion i do carry which is in a nice holster attached to the belt ive got the dog leash attached to (.380s are great for that dont get in the way at all and cause no movement issues) im not carrying because im scared of humans im carrying because there have been reports of the panthers wolves and bears coming from the deeper areas of the preserve towards the areas populated by humans which means 1 of 2 things hunger or rabies in which case neither mace nor my dog (who would look like a nice treat) would be of any help what so ever

TyFit08

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

Some people will snatch it and run.

Then we go from long slow run to speed work.

Maybe muggers should be planted through out the trail for interval training, now a gun would just ruin that cuz you'd just take them out instead of chasing them.

Then you'd also have the extra calorie burn from beating the **** out of them when you caught them.

Sounds like a great workout to me!!!

amandalfn

Live in Canada...!!

sjohnny

Live in Canada...!!

Not an option. They won't let me carry my gun.

And, in the immortal words of Homer Simpson: "Why would I want to leave America to go to America Junior?"

TyFit08

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

Some people will snatch it and run.

And some will kill you reguardless.
Are you willing to make that gamble?

Gamble, you have a better chance of winning the mega millions than being killed for your IPod, especially since you are a MAN. Puhleeze

sjohnny

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

Some people will snatch it and run.

And some will kill you reguardless.
Are you willing to make that gamble?

Gamble, you have a better chance of winning the mega millions than being killed for your IPod, especially since you are a MAN. Puhleeze

Wait... does that mean I AM going to have someone try to steal my iPod? Because I'm kinda counting on that mega millions win. It's my whole retirement plan.

MassiveDelta

The point is glaring...American (gun owners) dont feel the need for a government entity to provide them with protection. Nor do we trust them to provide us with the personal protection we need for our self and our family. The congested urban areas do. That's why highly populated metropolitan areas tend to vote democrat because they need the government to provide services for them instead of providing them on their own. Democrats are dependent on outside entity. Relying on some one else to provide that for you is a recipe for failure. If you Europeans, Australians and Canadians want to sit back and enjoy the psuedo comfort of your government supplying you with a false sense of protection you are more than welcome.

We are glad you live over there too
Stay over their and keep your European ideas to yourself.

Eventually your government will fail as ALL governments have in history. Who will protect you then? Do you think those gunless bobbies will give two hoots about weather or not you are protected when **** falls apart? Keep telling yourself that you have no need and you will be safe. You live in a dream land of false safety. You think that you are protected but when it actually comes down to it, No one is looking out for you and your family except you. In America, gun owners not criminals, have a sense of responsibility for themselves, their family, and their property. We dont expect anyone to come to our rescue. We are self sufficient and dont need a government to help us. If you trust your government congratulations. I hope that works out well for you. I hope on your life that you never have to experience it. As for me and my family well we will be protected.

So your local police department has failed you? Your local District Attorney's office has failed you? Your local fire department has failed you? Your state police department has failed you? Your state legislators and locally elected officials have failed you? Your states National Guard and our Armed Forces have failed you? What a patriot. What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. Your tax dollars pay police, fire and government salaries, they damn well better protect you. That is their job. Someone better be on the other end if I need to call 911 and an officer should respond. We live in a civilized society, where vigilante justice is not the law of the land and if you understood the constitution then you would respect law and order. We are the UNITED States of America, one nation.

And since you are so self- sufficient and need absolutely nothing from the government, then I'm sure you have enough cash to pay for your kids tuition outright, no financial aid, you have no plans of ever getting social security, medicaid or medicare, you don't drive on roads and bridges, you fly over them because you don't need those roads the government built, you use well water instead of municipal water, don't drink that government stuff and your gun is illegal because you wouldn't bother going to to the government to get a concealed carry permit. You really should read what you write before you post, because you can't be serious

You are twisting what I said and misquoting me.

TyFit08

[/quote]

You are twisting what I said and misquoting me.
[/quote]


Your Words

[/quote]
"The point is glaring...American (gun owners) dont feel the need for a government entity to provide them with protection. Nor do we trust them to provide us with the personal protection we need for our self and our family. The congested urban areas do. That's why highly populated metropolitan areas tend to vote democrat because they need the government to provide services for them instead of providing them on their own. Democrats are dependent on outside entity. Relying on some one else to provide that for you is a recipe for failure."
[/quote]


These are your words. So my question is has your local police, fire department, courts and lawmakers and armed forces not protected you? And since you say the cities depend on government instead of providing for themselves, how do you suggest the cities do that? Sounds like you are promoting vigilante justice to me.

[/quote]
"We dont expect anyone to come to our rescue. We are self sufficient and dont need a government to help us. If you trust your government congratulations. I hope that works out well for you. I hope on your life that you never have to experience it. As for me and my family well we will be protected. "
[/quote]

You said you don't need government help you are self-sufficient, but you don't live in the United State of Massive Delta, but the United States of America. I have no idea why you don't trust your police, fire, courts, lawmakers and armed forces to do their jobs. I don't know where they have failed you and your family, or how they left you vulnerable and unprotected. In fact the very laws that they protect and uphold allow you have a weapon in the first place. You say I am twisting your words, but there they are in black and white.

RGv2

digitalbill

Even with a Concealed weapon permit you can't shoot someone for "Taking your IPOD" they have to be threatening your life BIG DIFFERENCE. ....

I'm having trouble understanding how taking my iPod is less serious than threatening my life. I mean, what's life without an iPod?

I also fail to see how someone can take your Ipod WITHOUT threatening your life.

"Give me your Ipod.
"No"
"Give me your Ipod or I will kill you (threat)

Now you have no choice, you MUST defend your life.

Damn straight.

Some people will snatch it and run.

And some will kill you reguardless.
Are you willing to make that gamble?

Gamble, you have a better chance of winning the mega millions than being killed for your IPod, especially since you are a MAN. Puhleeze

So there IS a chance that someone will try to kill me for my Ipod?
Thanks but, I will try to up my odds of survival.

danewortley

You are twisting what I said and misquoting me.
[/quote]


Your Words

[/quote]
"The point is glaring...American (gun owners) dont feel the need for a government entity to provide them with protection. Nor do we trust them to provide us with the personal protection we need for our self and our family. The congested urban areas do. That's why highly populated metropolitan areas tend to vote democrat because they need the government to provide services for them instead of providing them on their own. Democrats are dependent on outside entity. Relying on some one else to provide that for you is a recipe for failure."
[/quote]


These are your words. So my question is has your local police, fire department, courts and lawmakers and armed forces not protected you? And since you say the cities depend on government instead of providing for themselves, how do you suggest the cities do that? Sounds like you are promoting vigilante justice to me.

[/quote]
"We dont expect anyone to come to our rescue. We are self sufficient and dont need a government to help us. If you trust your government congratulations. I hope that works out well for you. I hope on your life that you never have to experience it. As for me and my family well we will be protected. "
[/quote]

You said you don't need government help you are self-sufficient, but you don't live in the United State of Massive Delta, but the United States of America. I have no idea why you don't trust your police, fire, courts, lawmakers and armed forces to do their jobs. I don't know where they have failed you and your family, or how they left you vulnerable and unprotected. In fact the very laws that they protect and uphold allow you have a weapon in the first place. You say I am twisting your words, but there they are in black and white.
[/quote]

*SLAM* *SLAM* <---the noise a criminal makes kicking in your door at night when trying to steal you medications to cook crack or meth. I dare you to call 911 and wait for them to respond. When you live in rural Arkansas (such as myself) your average wait time for a police response is more than 5 minutes. Do you think you can ask the criminal to come back because you believe in the local fire department, police department and judicial system? My Wife and Son are the things i think about not my possible legal fee's. I'm not saying smoke everything that walks in your door,. Be trained, exercise caution and hopefully you will never need to use your training. Lots of people have car insurance, but not everyone gets into an accident. If you don't believe these sort of things happen take a look:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500202_162-5949873.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082210/Sarah-McKinley-Teen-mom-shoots-dead-intruder-week-babys-father-died-cancer.html

Im happy you live in a place where you can rely on others, that's part of why we pay our taxes, please don' get blinded by your securities many people are not that lucky....

mlb929

So your local police department has failed you? Your local District Attorney's office has failed you? Your local fire department has failed you? Your state police department has failed you? Your state legislators and locally elected officials have failed you? Your states National Guard and our Armed Forces have failed you? What a patriot. What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. Your tax dollars pay police, fire and government salaries, they damn well better protect you. That is their job. Someone better be on the other end if I need to call 911 and an officer should respond. We live in a civilized society, where vigilante justice is not the law of the land and if you understood the constitution then you would respect law and order. We are the UNITED States of America, one nation.

I've read and followed this thread. I'm somewhat entertained how someone asking "how to carry" while out running would turn to this. It's also entertaining to me that this is on a "Fitness and Exercise" bulletin board. The point really seems missed. The initial question wasn't "Do you agree with me on my having a firearm" but "if I did carry one, how do I do it.

And to answer the questions about being "failed" - Yes! Failed is a great description for the majority of services you have referred to. I work in the legal field, and if you think that any of these resources are equip to protect you at all times, and someone "better be on the other end"... really made me laugh. A runner 2 homes away from my rural home got mauled by dogs, her husband is a state patrol officer, he wishes she had a gun on her that day. Instead, no officer, no ambulance, no district attorney, no military... no one but an armed citizen stopped to help her, fired shots to scare the dogs (killed one), picked her up carried her to the hospital and stayed with her until family arrived. There were really no charges to press other than a violation for dogs at large, there was no money to sue for as the dog owner was uninsured.... yes, I think failed is a pretty good description. Frankly the resources aren't there. The county sheriff covers 400 square miles of land, much needing a 4wd to get to, with only two or three officers on duty at some times. It may take hours to get law enforcement to respond, most of the time, it's with a phone call back of "do you want to do a report on the phone or want us to come see you, it will be three days". I live in rural america, we have had 11 murders in 5 months in a town of under 20K people. I'm not saying that my gun is the answer, but I would rather be the one armed.

TyFit08

You are twisting what I said and misquoting me.

Your Words

[/quote]
"The point is glaring...American (gun owners) dont feel the need for a government entity to provide them with protection. Nor do we trust them to provide us with the personal protection we need for our self and our family. The congested urban areas do. That's why highly populated metropolitan areas tend to vote democrat because they need the government to provide services for them instead of providing them on their own. Democrats are dependent on outside entity. Relying on some one else to provide that for you is a recipe for failure."
[/quote]


These are your words. So my question is has your local police, fire department, courts and lawmakers and armed forces not protected you? And since you say the cities depend on government instead of providing for themselves, how do you suggest the cities do that? Sounds like you are promoting vigilante justice to me.

[/quote]
"We dont expect anyone to come to our rescue. We are self sufficient and dont need a government to help us. If you trust your government congratulations. I hope that works out well for you. I hope on your life that you never have to experience it. As for me and my family well we will be protected. "
[/quote]

You said you don't need government help you are self-sufficient, but you don't live in the United State of Massive Delta, but the United States of America. I have no idea why you don't trust your police, fire, courts, lawmakers and armed forces to do their jobs. I don't know where they have failed you and your family, or how they left you vulnerable and unprotected. In fact the very laws that they protect and uphold allow you have a weapon in the first place. You say I am twisting your words, but there they are in black and white.
[/quote]

*SLAM* *SLAM* <---the noise a criminal makes kicking in your door at night when trying to steal you medications to cook crack or meth. I dare you to call 911 and wait for them to respond. When you live in rural Arkansas (such as myself) your average wait time for a police response is more than 5 minutes. Do you think you can ask the criminal to come back because you believe in the local fire department, police department and judicial system? My Wife and Son are the things i think about not my possible legal fee's. I'm not saying smoke everything that walks in your door,. Be trained, exercise caution and hopefully you will never need to use your training. Lots of people have car insurance, but not everyone gets into an accident. If you don't believe these sort of things happen take a look:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500202_162-5949873.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082210/Sarah-McKinley-Teen-mom-shoots-dead-intruder-week-babys-father-died-cancer.html

Im happy you live in a place where you can rely on others, that's part of why we pay our taxes, please don' get blinded by your securities many people are not that lucky....
[/quote]

Protecting yourself from an intruder versus running on a hiking trail while carrying are apples and oranges. BTW most states where killing an intruder can be a justifiable shooting, usually requires it to be on your property while you were in imminent danger. I can't tell you how many cases I have covered of people who in the heat of the moment chased after the intruder shooting them and then faced jail time. Our taxes do cover government services and that poster says they are self-sufficient and don't rely on the government for anything. Even if you prefer to be prepared , which is your right, to deal with an intruder while you wait five minutes for the cops, you still call the cops. It sounded to me like that poster was promoting vigilante justice and I don't think that is okay.