So..no barbells at gym
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And don't try the BS "functional strenght" nonsense.
heaven forbid function have anything to do with a fitness site.
functional strength is a joke though. it's a blanket term that never really applies to real life.. It's something that weak people and crossfitters use to justify the dumb ways they train.
If there is a car stuck on top of someone do you want the 145 pound crossfitter or the 220 pound guy who actually lifts.........
Doesn't "functional strength" actually *mean* strength you would use in real life situations? That's what I take it to mean anyway. :ohwell:
I dunno. Maybe? Would being able to squat over 300 be more functional that not being able to squat over 300?0 -
Doesn't "functional strength" actually *mean* strength you would use in real life situations? That's what I take it to mean anyway. :ohwell:
Yes. But there aren't a ton of life situations where being able to do pushups or pistol squats have much carryover.
I can deadlift well, so anytime something needs to be picked up at work, I can usually do it. but thats as far as "functional" as I've seen it.0 -
Doesn't "functional strength" actually *mean* strength you would use in real life situations? That's what I take it to mean anyway. :ohwell:
Yes. But there aren't a ton of life situations where being able to do pushups or pistol squats have much carryover.
I can deadlift well, so anytime something needs to be picked up at work, I can usually do it. but thats as far as "functional" as I've seen it.
dude...thats wonderful. but really, why arent you over at BB.com? there are more guys on the same path as you over there.
no offense0 -
dude...thats wonderful. but really, why arent you over at BB.com? there are more guys on the same path as you over there.
no offense
I'm over there.
But just because I'm not a woman doesn't mean I can't hang out on these boards.........
Typically I'm rather helpful, I just have a bit to say when people mention "strength training".0 -
dude...thats wonderful. but really, why arent you over at BB.com? there are more guys on the same path as you over there.
no offense
I'm over there.
But just because I'm not a woman doesn't mean I can't hang out on these boards.........
Typically I'm rather helpful, I just have a bit to say when people mention "strength training".
didnt imply you were a woman. just remember your way isn't the only way0 -
Went to the local gym for an induction this morning, they have various machines and free weight dumbells, but no barbells. Point me in the right direction for exercises for these please
You can do almost everything with dumbbells, and for a lot of stuff, considered better because it engages more muscle for balance, doesn't allow strong to compensate for weak, ect.
Only bad ones are squats and deadlifts, which you can do with heavy dumbbells, but don't want to rip your skin off your hands lifting 100lb per hand when you get to that point.
Here is each muscle group. Pick one, there is a section on dumbbells, and proper form.
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WtMale.html0 -
didnt imply you were a woman. just remember your way isn't the only way
I even admitted that in this thread.
My reccommendation was to find a real gym with good equipment. and to lift w/ free weights.
It isn't the only way to go about strength training but it is the optimal way to go about it.......0 -
OMG!! OP here
I expected barbells 'cos all the trainig stuff people poiinted me in the direction of last week was barbell based!
I am a beginner yes, have been inspired by people on here and fitocracy to try to get from skinny to skinny fit I want strength too, and especially core strength which i am working on through pilates. I am not interested in cardio machines as i swim and walk when I want to sweat..And do the Shred when i want to hurt
I am in the uk, the gym is my local council one and really is my only option for the moment due to childcare issues. I will be making an appt to see the on staff personal trainer next week.
erm.... Thank you 0 -
Some thoughts:
- The UK isn't as into gym culture as other places; maybe gyms are sticking to machines because of lack of familiarity in gym-goers - maybe there ISN'T an awesome gym nearby with proper racks etc
- I think, as a person new to lifting, OP should go to the nearest place that fits into her life, that'll make it likeliest she'll go, period
- Weight is weight, and failure is failure
edit: Wendy - :smooched:
I :> you0 -
OMG!! OP here
I expected barbells 'cos all the trainig stuff people poiinted me in the direction of last week was barbell based!
I am a beginner yes, have been inspired by people on here and fitocracy to try to get from skinny to skinny fit I want strength too, and especially core strength which i am working on through pilates. I am not interested in cardio machines as i swim and walk when I want to sweat..And do the Shred when i want to hurt
I am in the uk, the gym is my local council one and really is my only option for the moment due to childcare issues. I will be making an appt to see the on staff personal trainer next week.
erm.... Thank you
Congrats on your epic thread0 -
lol @ people who think barbells are necessary for strength training.
lol @ you.
They are necessary for strength training. At least for any sort of functional strength. Having your body move on one plane of motion and isolating one muscle is fine for some things, but when your supporting muscles can't handle the weight your major muscles can then you aren't really that strong are you...
One can get quite strong with bodyweight and dumbbells if you understand and can apply the concept of leverage and how the reduction of it drives perceived load and progression.0 -
Went to the local gym for an induction this morning, they have various machines and free weight dumbbells, but no barbells. Point me in the right direction for exercises for these please
Hi! I wanted to add my two cents, and hopefully they are helpful and positive.
My gym DOES have barbels, but as a beginner (with back issues as well) I opted to start with the dumbbells. Based on what you wrote, I am thinking you are looking for dumbell exercises.
I basically did two things: 1. I went to www.bodybuilding.com and found a female role model that had obtained the type of body I want for myself. That happened to be Jamie Eason, who has her own section and body building training (for free) on her site. The link is http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jamie-eason-livefit-trainer.html
I signed up for the free program, read all of the info, watched all of the videos and then printed all of the free weight exercises from "Week 1" of the program. Alot of the exercises prescribed were dumbbells!
I took my printouts to my gym and signed up for an appointment with a trainer. So that would be the #2 thing I did. When I met with my trainer, I made it very clear that I was A. a beginner and intimidated of the free weights section and overcoming that was just as important to me as doing the exercises was B. I have health consideration (including my back issues) D, wanted to learn all of the exercises I had printed and I wanted to C. ensure I was doing the exercises in good form to prevent injury.
Not only did the trainer help me with A, B, C and D but he also showed me several extra exercises and taught me how to use the cables as well, since certain parts of my body aren't quite ready for free weights, in our opinion.
When I first started, 5 pound dumbbells gave me quite the workout, now I am up to 15 and those are getting easy.
I love free weights and the empowerment I feel, btw. Just throwing that out there..I know it wasn't part of your question.
I would also probably check out the rest of the bodybuilding.com website and look for good youtube videos, but if it were me, I would try them for the first time with a trainer, to make sure I was using "good form."
Hope that helps - good for you for being proactive!
Edited* changed word barbels to dumbbells :P oops!0 -
Show me the bodyweight routine that allows people to squat over 300 and deadlift over 400 and you can win
A glute ham raise is a straight up bodyweight exercise. Anyone that can do legit glute-ham raises, the real kind with strength alone reversing the motion and no hip hinging at the bottom (a la not how the GHR bench is typically used), that also has sufficient pull strength and grip strength (most BW folks will be stronger than norm in this area) and isn't a lightweight, should be able to bang out a 400 lb deadlift NO PROBLEM.
Hell I've never heard of anyone that could do a back lever that didn't also have at least a 2x BW deadlift.
As for squatting, an extended range shrimp squat (as in foot on something and maintaining an upright torso through full ROM) has very high resistance while being BW alone.
But you can also weight a pistol squat with DB's to very high resistances. Anyone that can bang out pistols with 2x 50 lb DB's in the front rack position would laugh at a 300 lb back squat.
Pistols can also be done plyometrically for height and/or distance. BW or with DB's.
But you can also torture your legs with things like 1 leg wall sits, with a perfectly vertical shin and horizonal femur (have fun with that). likewise grab a few DB's if that becomes too easy.
As a practical matter though, unilateral strength is much more useful than bilateral. There are far more uses for single leg strength (with all the supporting architecture) than dual leg strength. Single leg strength will have more transfer to the primary real expressions of leg strength (running, jumping, and pushing) than dual leg strength. Not to mention you develop utterly ridiculous balance over time.0 -
Yeah Im in the process of switching gyms for this same reason. I cant use the smith machine to do this stuff, its killing my form and preventing me from getting stronger. I need a barbell.
I NEED A BARBELL.0 -
Doesn't "functional strength" actually *mean* strength you would use in real life situations? That's what I take it to mean anyway. :ohwell:
Yes. But there aren't a ton of life situations where being able to do pushups or pistol squats have much carryover.
I can deadlift well, so anytime something needs to be picked up at work, I can usually do it. but thats as far as "functional" as I've seen it.
I don't know what a pistol squat is, but I can definitely see benefit in being able to lift your own body weight. Being *unable* to do so has left me embarrassed more than once.0 -
"Strength training" means training to get stronger and is in fact what is under discussion right now. Squatting 300 is still novice level for an average height man and can be achieved in under a year. If a man wants "strength training" to continue to be strength training, then he should be concerned about squatting 300. (yes i know the op is a woman)
dude...you need to re-think what you think is average. The average adult male cannot squat 300 pounds and IS NOT novice level.0 -
I don't know what a pistol squat is, but I can definitely see benefit in being able to lift your own body weight. Being *unable* to do so has left me embarrassed more than once.
A pistol squat is a one legged squat.
People don't hop around like bunnies all day. It is very rare that someone applies strength from both of their legs at the same time.
When you run you apply strength one leg at a time Sprinting is very much an expression of strength, he who has the most powerful legs can run the fastest. Why do you think they test football players in the 40 yard dash? It is a test of leg strength more than anything else.
While strong people usually will jump with 2 legs when jumping for maximum height, when applied to athletic uses most jumping will be of the single leg variety (again, jumping is an expression of leg strength).
Lets say you need to push something. Once its moving you in general won't push legs side by side, each will be independantly pushing and applying force in a walking motion.0 -
different gym?0
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dude...you need to re-think what you think is average. The average adult male cannot squat 300 pounds and IS NOT novice level.
I think he meant the average guy who actually lifts can/should squat 300.
I'd say the average male that has even a remote amount of fitness could squat around 135-185 in their first session.0 -
People don't hop around like bunnies all day. It is very rare that someone applies strength from both of their legs at the same time.
When you run you apply strength one leg at a time Sprinting is very much an expression of strength, he who has the most powerful legs can run the fastest. Why do you think they test football players in the 40 yard dash? It is a test of leg strength more than anything else.
While strong people usually will jump with 2 legs when jumping for maximum height, when applied to athletic uses most jumping will be of the single leg variety (again, jumping is an expression of leg strength).
Lets say you need to push something. Once its moving you in general won't push legs side by side, each will be independantly pushing and applying force in a walking motion.
They have football players do the 40 yard dash to look at their speed....not just their strength.......speed/strength do have a relation but they aren't really looking for the strength aspect in that test. Otherwise they'd just watch the guys squat.
And most lineman are planted on both feet, and need to be explosive that way. That's why most box jumps are done with both feet planted.......................0 -
I don't know what a pistol squat is, but I can definitely see benefit in being able to lift your own body weight. Being *unable* to do so has left me embarrassed more than once.
A pistol squat is a one legged squat.
People don't hop around like bunnies all day. It is very rare that someone applies strength from both of their legs at the same time.
When you run you apply strength one leg at a time Sprinting is very much an expression of strength, he who has the most powerful legs can run the fastest. Why do you think they test football players in the 40 yard dash? It is a test of leg strength more than anything else.
While strong people usually will jump with 2 legs when jumping for maximum height, when applied to athletic uses most jumping will be of the single leg variety (again, jumping is an expression of leg strength).
Lets say you need to push something. Once its moving you in general won't push legs side by side, each will be independantly pushing and applying force in a walking motion.
Oh wow! I still can't even do one real squat without weights. It kills my knees. I have been modifying it to be similar to an exercise I used to do in high school for basketball practice. We would get in a "sitting position" against the wall and hold it there. In high school, I could sit like that for a long time. We had to do one minute, then run lines, then one minute again, and so on. I can only hold it for about 10 seconds now. I just weigh too much. I'll get there.
Thanks for the explanation.0 -
dude...you need to re-think what you think is average. The average adult male cannot squat 300 pounds and IS NOT novice level.
I think he meant the average guy who actually lifts can/should squat 300.
I'd say the average male that has even a remote amount of fitness could squat around 135-185 in their first session.
Thats still not an appropriate statement. When I was competing, I was 160-170 and only squated 350 and I was a freaking beast. Not sure where he or you workout for but not very many guys the gyms I have trained in even have the guts to put 300 pounds on the bar and squat all the way down. Saying that every guy who is even a novice should squat 300 pounds is like telling every person that has a driver's license that they can drive a race car on the Nascar circuit.0 -
It takes a long time to build the trunk up to handle heavy barbell squats. Do you really think a veteran pistol squatter with no specific barbell training could just throw 300lbs on? Maybe if they are used to loading their torso with exercises like handstand pushups. I choose to train the most muscle groups in the least amount of time - which is why I think it's fun and novel that I can do pistol squats, but I get under a barbell when it's time to train.0
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People don't hop around like bunnies all day. It is very rare that someone applies strength from both of their legs at the same time.
When you run you apply strength one leg at a time Sprinting is very much an expression of strength, he who has the most powerful legs can run the fastest. Why do you think they test football players in the 40 yard dash? It is a test of leg strength more than anything else.
While strong people usually will jump with 2 legs when jumping for maximum height, when applied to athletic uses most jumping will be of the single leg variety (again, jumping is an expression of leg strength).
Lets say you need to push something. Once its moving you in general won't push legs side by side, each will be independantly pushing and applying force in a walking motion.
They have football players do the 40 yard dash to look at their speed....not just their strength.......speed/strength do have a relation but they aren't really looking for the strength aspect in that test. Otherwise they'd just watch the guys squat.
And most lineman are planted on both feet, and need to be explosive that way. That's why most box jumps are done with both feet planted.......................
Sled pushing is very much a unilateral expression of leg strength, that is by far the most aplicable exercise to how lineman apply their strength.
How much one squats is not particularly useful athletically. Much more important is how that is applied to power production, hence the test how fast they can accelerate and how high and how far they can jump. For as important at the 40 supposedly is for the various positions, the position(s) with the highest correlation between running fast and being good players is the defensive line; big guys that can accelerate fast have super powerful legs.
Once you pass a certain (very high) point, peak strength inversely affects power production, the gains in strength are outweighed by the slowdown in strength use (hence why top powerlifters don't make good sprinters).0 -
Thats still not an appropriate statement. When I was competing, I was 160-170 and only squated 350 and I was a freaking beast. Not sure where he or you workout for but not very many guys the gyms I have trained in even have the guts to put 300 pounds on the bar and squat all the way down. Saying that every guy who is even a novice should squat 300 pounds is like telling every person that has a driver's license that they can drive a race car on the Nascar circuit.
I've been competing for less than a year and squat 365 in the 165 class............and I'm no where near the top of the raw competition, nor would I ever label myself a beast, because my lifts aren't really impressive.
I'm not saying every novice should climb under 315, and I dont believe he was either. I think he was saying that people should strive to put up those numbers.0 -
It takes a long time to build the trunk up to handle heavy barbell squats. Do you really think a veteran pistol squatter with no specific barbell training could just throw 300lbs on? Maybe if they are used to loading their torso with exercises like handstand pushups. I choose to train the most muscle groups in the least amount of time - which is why I think it's fun and novel that I can do pistol squats, but I get under a barbell when it's time to train.
Chances are the veteran pistol squatter is also moving into lower leverage upper body exercises like L-sits, front levers, and human flags, and laughs at the weak core of the squatter.
The front lever throttles the whole body just as effectively as a deadlift.0 -
How much one squats is not particularly useful athletically. Much more important is how that is applied to power production, hence the test how fast they can accelerate and how high and how far they can jump. For as important at the 40 supposedly is for the various positions, the position(s) with the highest correlation between running fast and being good players is the defensive line; big guys that can accelerate fast have super powerful legs.
Once you pass a certain (very high) point, peak strength inversely affects power production, the gains in strength are outweighed by the slowdown in strength use (hence why top powerlifters don't make good sprinters).
They aren't building lineman by having them do pistol squats, they have them back squatting. Just so you know.
Probably why top NFL teams consult with Louie Simmons for strength and conditioning.
As far as the strength adversely affecting speed.......
I have a hell of a time hitting a 42 inch box at 165 pounds........these guys squat over 1000 pounds, and weight 275+
Looks like their speed is fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLLLYyCmHjI
Speed should be accounted for in your training to be a better athlete. Like I said, they're related.0 -
It takes a long time to build the trunk up to handle heavy barbell squats. Do you really think a veteran pistol squatter with no specific barbell training could just throw 300lbs on? Maybe if they are used to loading their torso with exercises like handstand pushups. I choose to train the most muscle groups in the least amount of time - which is why I think it's fun and novel that I can do pistol squats, but I get under a barbell when it's time to train.
Chances are the veteran pistol squatter is also moving into lower leverage upper body exercises like L-sits, front levers, and human flags, and laughs at the weak core of the squatter.
The front lever throttles the whole body just as effectively as a deadlift.
I'd certainly be interested to see this put to practice.0 -
Gyms are full of ppl that dont know beans about nutrition or even exercise! Not saying all trainers are worthless but any gym that isnt fully stocked or up to date or willing to spend the money to stay up to date or with insurance (so they can have the bar) isnt worth my $20 to go there. (assuming its that cheap considering they lack)
I loved the gym for years for many reasons. Working out at home, I figured would never happen. My habits are ingrained now and I LOVE saving the money- and could never stick it out without my barbell. Theres something so satisfying about lifting a bar full of weight over my head.0 -
It takes a long time to build the trunk up to handle heavy barbell squats. Do you really think a veteran pistol squatter with no specific barbell training could just throw 300lbs on? Maybe if they are used to loading their torso with exercises like handstand pushups. I choose to train the most muscle groups in the least amount of time - which is why I think it's fun and novel that I can do pistol squats, but I get under a barbell when it's time to train.
Chances are the veteran pistol squatter is also moving into lower leverage upper body exercises like L-sits, front levers, and human flags, and laughs at the weak core of the squatter.
The front lever throttles the whole body just as effectively as a deadlift.
I'd certainly be interested to see this put to practice.
Well, walk up to a pullup bar and try to do a front lever. Hell try to even do one with your knees tucked to your chest.
If you can't do 20-30 good form dragon flags your core is way too weak to do a front lever.0
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