Why should I go VEGAN??
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Not taking the bait.
This. Not worth my time to get into it with you.0 -
Humans are omnivores. This means our digestive systems are designed to process a wide variety of animal and plant matter, and that we can adapt to many a region. Example: indigenous people of the far north, until the past century, had little to no access to vegetable matter. So they ate meat, and meat only. Organ meats provided the vitamins usually gotten from plant matter (fascinating factoid: adrenal glands are a great source of Vitamin C).
Bottom line: meat, fish, eggs, are highly efficient foods as fuel - high protein, low fat (if you choose the right cuts), and quick to cook. Tasty, too. If you don't want to eat them, that's fine. Me, I know I need that efficient fuel.0 -
To the OP.............
Going vegan is a lifestyle change in other ways than just the food you eat.
Are you prepared to give or throw away all of your leather shoes, belts, hand bags, etc? There is no more wearing leather or anything else that is made from animal hide.
You will have to throw out most of your personal hygiene and cosmetics as they use animal fats and are sometimes tested on animals too.
I can say that all of my soap, shampoo, cosmetics are all vegan as I like all natural products anyway, even though I do eat meat I use a lot of vegan soaps and such because of the fact that they are made from all natural ingredients and some I even make myself.0 -
Humanely slaughtered? I would love to hear that explanation.....There ia as much about soy being ok as there is it not. Actually, everything I purchase containing soy is labelled non-GMO.....Many of those studies are dated and the funding of the publishing is very much in question. Not trying to argue, I have read both sides of the discussion. I'll take my chances with soy over meat and dairy....
This is an agreeable statement.I get where you're coming from and I've thought about it myself.
But those vegan substitutes are so processed, I'd rather eat chicken.
Can the average person pronounce all of the ingredients in those fake meat crumbles or the fake cheese?
Some of the additives are pretty bad...
Also, the amount of soy in tofu, and other soy products is not healthy............Before someone starts in on edamame or the soy that Asians eat.............it is far different than what Westerners eat and the stuff that is in America, especially is NOT healthy for us.
Also, there are ways of sourcing humanely treated animals for consumption and then you are supporting your local economy. Find a farm and visit.
Yes but how animals are raised does not change how they are killed. Find a slaughter house and visit. Even if you could find truly "ethical meat" there is no way that sort of production is sustainable for the amount of current animal consumption. Also you may want to research soy a little more. All tofu is simply edamame that has been cooked, curdled with calcium or nigari, and pressed...EXACTLY like in Asian. It has 2-3 ingredients if you count water.
Here's an example of a great product with "unpronounceable" ingredients. http://www.gardein.com/products.php?p=2 This one does have soy protein thought there are many that don't. I would love it if you could show us legitimate research (that has not been refuted) on why soy is not healthy for "us."
I'm vegan because I really care about my health, humanity, the environment, and animals. I have done TONS of research to make this decision. I haven't regretted it for over four years.
First of all, I grew up around and on farms (a lot of my family were and are farmers). I have milked cows, collected eggs, drove tractors and such.
We slaughtered our own meat in the basement of my grandparents house. It was done in a quick and humane manner.
Almost ALL soy in this country is GMO. Soy in the United States is not processed the same as in Asia and in Asia MOST soy is fermented, it is NOT in the United States.
Soy being in everything is what is causing children to have accelerated growth, especially young girls.
I have a friend that moved to Japan to live with her boyfriend. She is a vegan. She would NOT eat soy in the United States, but went to Japan and said it is fabulous.
My Metabolic Endocrinologist has told me to stay far, far away from anything that contains soy, including soy isolates.
He stated that is part of the reason I am now Hypo-thyroid and have imbalances in my female hormones from when I was vegetarian myself and used to consume soy products.
A 1991 study found that eating only 2 TBL/day of roasted and pickled soybeans for 3 months to healthy adults who were receiving adequate iodine in their diet caused thyroid suppression with symptoms of malaise, constipation, sleepiness, and goiters (Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi 1991, 767: 622-629)!
Six premenopausal women with normal menstrual cycles were given 45 mg of soy isoflavones per day. This is equivalent to only 1-2 cups of soy milk or 1/2 cup of soy flour! After only one month, all of the women experienced delayed menstruation with the effects similar to tamoxifen, the anti-estrogen drug given to women with breast cancer (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1994 Sep;60(3):333-340).
Dietary estrogens in the form of soy foods were found to have the potential to disrupt the endocrine system with the effects in women similar to taking the breast cancer drug tamoxifen (Proceedings of the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine 1995 Jan;208(1):51-9
Estrogens consumed in the diet at low concentrations were found to stimulate breast cells much like DDT to increase enzymatic activity which leads to breast cancer (Environmental Health Perspectives 1997 Apr;105 (Suppl 3):633-636).
Don’t eat soy when you are pregnant ladies! Scientific research has shown that the developing male fetus which is exposed to soy phytoestrogens may suffer from higher susceptibility to prostate cancer later in life (Prostate 1994;24(2):67-78).
Ward H and others. Breast, colorectal, and prostate cancer risk in the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition-Norfolk in relation to phytoestrogen intake derived from an improved database. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 2010 Feb;91(2):440-8. “Dietary phytoestrogens may contribute to the risk of colorectal cancer among women and prostate cancer among men.”
The link has many other studies from 1950-present.
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-alert/studies-showing-adverse-effects-of-isoflavones0 -
My favorite soap:
http://www.kirksnatural.com/To the OP.............
Going vegan is a lifestyle change in other ways than just the food you eat.
Are you prepared to give or throw away all of your leather shoes, belts, hand bags, etc? There is no more wearing leather or anything else that is made from animal hide.
You will have to throw out most of your personal hygiene and cosmetics as they use animal fats and are sometimes tested on animals too.
I can say that all of my soap, shampoo, cosmetics are all vegan as I like all natural products anyway, even though I do eat meat I use a lot of vegan soaps and such because of the fact that they are made from all natural ingredients and some I even make myself.0 -
e. Protein can be found in all sorts of vegan foods and humans can live perfectly well off a vegan diet with no unhealthy side effects (on the contrary the side effects are healthier).
No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.0 -
Obviously, the latter.....
No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.
So have you tried and failed or are you just talking out of your *kitten*?0 -
No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.
So have you tried and failed or are you just talking out of your *kitten*?
Please show me one 250+ lb lean (under 8% bf) man that got there on a vegan diet. I have yet to ever see a vegan diet outline that managed to fit in 6000+ Calories while still being remotely calorie dense enough for a person to consume each day. it will need at least 250g protein and most decent protein supplements are out since they aren't vegan.
It may be possible to make such a diet and keep it vegan....but there is no way in hell I could cram that down every single day, since vegan foods are usually much less calorie dense.
And getting halfway decent macros for optimal hormone response is going to be extremely hard on a vegan diet. Creatine, certain fats, certain aminos, etc etc will all have to be supplemented, assuming that's even "vegan".0 -
vegan body builders:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegetarian-vegan-bodybuilding-info/6826696189/
http://www.belsandia.com/vegan-bodybuilding.html
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_marlon
Not impossible. Just more work.0 -
No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.
So have you tried and failed or are you just talking out of your *kitten*?
Please show me one 250+ lb lean (under 8% bf) man that got there on a vegan diet. I have yet to ever see a vegan diet outline that managed to fit in 6000+ Calories while still being remotely calorie dense enough for a person to consume each day. it will need at least 250g protein and most decent protein supplements are out since they aren't vegan.
It may be possible to make such a diet and keep it vegan....but there is no way in hell I could cram that down every single day, since vegan foods are usually much less calorie dense.
And getting halfway decent macros for optimal hormone response is going to be extremely hard on a vegan diet. Creatine, certain fats, certain aminos, etc etc will all have to be supplemented, assuming that's even "vegan".
vegan body builders:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegetarian-vegan-bodybuilding-info/6826696189/
http://www.belsandia.com/vegan-bodybuilding.html
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_marlon
Not impossible. Just more work.
...that comment of mine was in response to you.
This guy is 240# http://veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_bill0 -
Obviously, you haven't looked deep enough for the info, it's there......But if someone puts themselves in a box and won't look outside of it, then there is things they will not be able to see....Raw Vegan: Nature's Path to Bodybuilding, is one book I'm aware of. Several books available on this topic.
No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.
So have you tried and failed or are you just talking out of your *kitten*?
Please show me one 250+ lb lean (under 8% bf) man that got there on a vegan diet. I have yet to ever see a vegan diet outline that managed to fit in 6000+ Calories while still being remotely calorie dense enough for a person to consume each day. it will need at least 250g protein and most decent protein supplements are out since they aren't vegan.
It may be possible to make such a diet and keep it vegan....but there is no way in hell I could cram that down every single day, since vegan foods are usually much less calorie dense.
And getting halfway decent macros for optimal hormone response is going to be extremely hard on a vegan diet. Creatine, certain fats, certain aminos, etc etc will all have to be supplemented, assuming that's even "vegan".0 -
No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.
So have you tried and failed or are you just talking out of your *kitten*?
Please show me one 250+ lb lean (under 8% bf) man that got there on a vegan diet. I have yet to ever see a vegan diet outline that managed to fit in 6000+ Calories while still being remotely calorie dense enough for a person to consume each day. it will need at least 250g protein and most decent protein supplements are out since they aren't vegan.
It may be possible to make such a diet and keep it vegan....but there is no way in hell I could cram that down every single day, since vegan foods are usually much less calorie dense.
And getting halfway decent macros for optimal hormone response is going to be extremely hard on a vegan diet. Creatine, certain fats, certain aminos, etc etc will all have to be supplemented, assuming that's even "vegan".
vegan body builders:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegetarian-vegan-bodybuilding-info/6826696189/
http://www.belsandia.com/vegan-bodybuilding.html
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_marlon
Not impossible. Just more work.
...that comment of mine was in response to you.
Those three guys are small.
The first has a great physique but he is 218 pounds. Not close to 250 lean. He was IFBB pro a long time ago, he would never be able to compete on the same level against the current crop of competitors. Too small.
And I GUARANTEE you he had to overcompensate with his AAS dosages. He absolutely had to take in more anabolic and GH than he otherwise would have.
So perhaps it's possible with enough exogenous hormones. I mean ****...I could eat candy all day and take a few whey shakes and be 300lbs lean if I just dosed 50 IU's of HGH every day.
Edit: that 240lb guy you edited in is fat and 6'1" and only 240. He is not big.0 -
I don't have a problem with vegans. I have a problem with vegans who assume that because I eat meat (lots of it, like at least 2 lbs per day), I am ignorant about where it comes from or its nutritive properties or how the animals are treated. I grew up on a beef cattle ranch. I raised orphan calves, pigs, chickens, rabbits, goats, etc., throughout my childhood, so give it a rest. My diet is perfectly healthy. I guess I'm just not virtuous enough to care that an animal has to die so that I can eat what I want. I bought a crap ton of steak yesterday for a great price, and I feel awesome about it. Every day, I am proud not to be vegan. Or a hypocrite. You say you care about animals ... well, stop eating all their food.
Stop eating all their food? Really?0 -
No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.
So have you tried and failed or are you just talking out of your *kitten*?
Please show me one 250+ lb lean (under 8% bf) man that got there on a vegan diet. I have yet to ever see a vegan diet outline that managed to fit in 6000+ Calories while still being remotely calorie dense enough for a person to consume each day. it will need at least 250g protein and most decent protein supplements are out since they aren't vegan.
It may be possible to make such a diet and keep it vegan....but there is no way in hell I could cram that down every single day, since vegan foods are usually much less calorie dense.
And getting halfway decent macros for optimal hormone response is going to be extremely hard on a vegan diet. Creatine, certain fats, certain aminos, etc etc will all have to be supplemented, assuming that's even "vegan".
theres a vegan bodybuilding magazine and a website www.veganbodybuilding.com0 -
Bad thing about self-limiters.....they are self-limiting.....
No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.
So have you tried and failed or are you just talking out of your *kitten*?
Please show me one 250+ lb lean (under 8% bf) man that got there on a vegan diet. I have yet to ever see a vegan diet outline that managed to fit in 6000+ Calories while still being remotely calorie dense enough for a person to consume each day. it will need at least 250g protein and most decent protein supplements are out since they aren't vegan.
It may be possible to make such a diet and keep it vegan....but there is no way in hell I could cram that down every single day, since vegan foods are usually much less calorie dense.
And getting halfway decent macros for optimal hormone response is going to be extremely hard on a vegan diet. Creatine, certain fats, certain aminos, etc etc will all have to be supplemented, assuming that's even "vegan".
vegan body builders:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegetarian-vegan-bodybuilding-info/6826696189/
http://www.belsandia.com/vegan-bodybuilding.html
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_marlon
Not impossible. Just more work.
...that comment of mine was in response to you.
Those three guys are small.
The first has a great physique but he is 218 pounds. Not close to 250 lean. He was IFBB pro a long time ago, he would never be able to compete on the same level against the current crop of competitors. Too small.
And I GUARANTEE you he had to overcompensate with his AAS dosages. He absolutely had to take in more anabolic and GH than he otherwise would have.
So perhaps it's possible with enough exogenous hormones. I mean ****...I could eat candy all day and take a few whey shakes and be 300lbs lean if I just dosed 50 IU's of HGH every day.0 -
No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.
So have you tried and failed or are you just talking out of your *kitten*?
Please show me one 250+ lb lean (under 8% bf) man that got there on a vegan diet. I have yet to ever see a vegan diet outline that managed to fit in 6000+ Calories while still being remotely calorie dense enough for a person to consume each day. it will need at least 250g protein and most decent protein supplements are out since they aren't vegan.
It may be possible to make such a diet and keep it vegan....but there is no way in hell I could cram that down every single day, since vegan foods are usually much less calorie dense.
And getting halfway decent macros for optimal hormone response is going to be extremely hard on a vegan diet. Creatine, certain fats, certain aminos, etc etc will all have to be supplemented, assuming that's even "vegan".
vegan body builders:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegetarian-vegan-bodybuilding-info/6826696189/
http://www.belsandia.com/vegan-bodybuilding.html
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_marlon
Not impossible. Just more work.
...that comment of mine was in response to you.
Those three guys are small.
The first has a great physique but he is 218 pounds. Not close to 250 lean. He was IFBB pro a long time ago, he would never be able to compete on the same level against the current crop of competitors. Too small.
And I GUARANTEE you he had to overcompensate with his AAS dosages. He absolutely had to take in more anabolic and GH than he otherwise would have.
So perhaps it's possible with enough exogenous hormones. I mean ****...I could eat candy all day and take a few whey shakes and be 300lbs lean if I just dosed 50 IU's of HGH every day.
This guy is 240# http://veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_bill
Well, I personally don't give a hoot what you do. But I oppose the idea that a vegan "can't" be a body builder. I'm a vegetarian. Is it hard to hit my macros? Not really now that I got it figured out. Would it be easier if i ate meat? Sure. But it isn't impossible.
We all do what we can.
Just don't say to someone else that they "can't" jsut because you would rather not take that route because you personally find it too difficult.0 -
you can buy meat and eggs from organic, certified humane farms, plus those products dont have the added growth hormones or antibiotics in them.0
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No they can't.
And my goals are impossible to reach with a vegan diet.
So have you tried and failed or are you just talking out of your *kitten*?
Please show me one 250+ lb lean (under 8% bf) man that got there on a vegan diet. I have yet to ever see a vegan diet outline that managed to fit in 6000+ Calories while still being remotely calorie dense enough for a person to consume each day. it will need at least 250g protein and most decent protein supplements are out since they aren't vegan.
It may be possible to make such a diet and keep it vegan....but there is no way in hell I could cram that down every single day, since vegan foods are usually much less calorie dense.
And getting halfway decent macros for optimal hormone response is going to be extremely hard on a vegan diet. Creatine, certain fats, certain aminos, etc etc will all have to be supplemented, assuming that's even "vegan".
vegan body builders:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegetarian-vegan-bodybuilding-info/6826696189/
http://www.belsandia.com/vegan-bodybuilding.html
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_marlon
Not impossible. Just more work.
...that comment of mine was in response to you.
Those three guys are small.
The first has a great physique but he is 218 pounds. Not close to 250 lean. He was IFBB pro a long time ago, he would never be able to compete on the same level against the current crop of competitors. Too small.
And I GUARANTEE you he had to overcompensate with his AAS dosages. He absolutely had to take in more anabolic and GH than he otherwise would have.
So perhaps it's possible with enough exogenous hormones. I mean ****...I could eat candy all day and take a few whey shakes and be 300lbs lean if I just dosed 50 IU's of HGH every day.
This guy is 240# http://veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_bill
Well, I personally don't give a hoot what you do. But I oppose the idea that a vegan "can't" be a body builder. I'm a vegetarian. Is it hard to hit my macros? Not really now that I got it figured out. Would it be easier if i ate meat? Sure. But it isn't impossible.
We all do what we can.
Just don't say to someone else that they "can't" jsut because you would rather not take that route because you personally find it too difficult.
I just saw your edit with the 240lb guy. that 240lb guy you edited in is fat and at 6'1" and only 240 non-lean...He is not big. He wouldn't even place top 10 in a local show assuming he dieted down.
Sorry. Just being realistic. There are a few vegan bodybuilders out there, but they have to up their doses to compensate...doses which are already sky-high.. So there goes the whole health thing0 -
I just saw your edit with the 240lb guy. that 240lb guy you edited in is fat and at 6'1" and only 240 non-lean...He is not big. He wouldn't even place top 10 in a local show assuming he dieted down.
Sorry. Just being realistic. There are a few vegan bodybuilders out there, but they have to up their doses to compensate...doses which are already sky-high.. So there goes the whole health thing
I am also being realistic that with proper discipline, it can be done. I don't even know what "doses" you are talking about. Are you talking about steroids? In which case, you aren't even talking about anything natural in which case all of my interest has been lost. Might as well get these:
http://www.plasticsurgeon-virginia.com/PlasticSurgeryVirginia/calf_implant_men_virginia.htm0 -
I won't go vegan because no plant TASTES LIKE MEAT. Especially BACON.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Every animal saved by someone going meatless I will eat two off. Esp if it involves bacon.
I used to be a vegan, but had to stop for health reasons. Even with vitamins my iron was WAY to low. Between that and the health problems that arose with my soy consumption I just didn't think it was worth it.0
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