Why should I go VEGAN??
Replies
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I am extremely well informed about all of the terrible things caused by the meat industry. I try to eat grass/natural-fed free range beasts, but in the end I just don't care.
Do you not believe that I'm perfectly willing to butcher my own food? I am, but why would I want to do that when I can pay somebody else to do it for me? (like building a home, or assembling my phone or my computer)
I also disagree regarding the health claims.
I agree with this. I grew up on farms, am very well aware of the conditions animals are farmed in. However, I still enjoy and consume animal products.
I don't eat meat/animal products every day (or even every second day) but will never go vegetarian or vegan.
Although I have managed to cater for dinner parties for 10 including vegetarians I find vegans to be a bit of a pain in the *kitten* to try and cater for.
But I am genuinely curious, do any vegans here cater for meat eating people they invite over for dinner by providing animal products?0 -
There's a million reasons to go vegan, but I'm not going to preach or try to convert someone that doesn't want to.
I'm not vegan, but I'm "mostly vegan" usually. I don't drink milk or buy meat. I also don't buy processed crap, which you can technically still do if you're vegan, but most of the reason for me to eat the way I do is health, so that would be counter-productive & cancel each other out. I also refuse to stop eating cheese, so in that sense I could never be vegan. Vegan cheese is fairly disgusting unless you're cooking it with stuff, & I don't eat fake meat besides vegan sausage patties. I never really liked a lot of meat to begin with so it helps.
My health has gotten a bajillion times better since I switched my eating habits. That's reason enough for me.0 -
I love animals so I am a vegetarian. Ihave a lot of trouble staying healthy vegan and where I live (rural coastal town) there are very very little options for vegans.0
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in regards to asking about catering to meat eaters...I did make a turkey for thanksgiving but i cried while I cleaned it. i cant to it again.0
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I'm slowly working towards becoming a vegan, I'm doing it slowly so my body adapts and so I myself can get used to it. I have been a meat eater my whole life but have been reading a lot more about the meat and dairy industries and I simply decided that I love animals more than I love meat. I feel no need to force anything on anyone, this is my choice and I feel a lot better from making this choice.
You will never be able to convince the whole world to not eat meat and vice versa. I just wish there was less abuse (from both sides) I also don't think sarcasm is necessary, something I have witnessed upon reading a lot of the replies.0 -
...Can you imagine all people in the world as being vegetarians/vegans? How much land we would then need to grow enough crops to feed the population? That's why vegetarians/vegans create sort of balance for meat-eaters...
:noway: I'm speechless.
It was my opinion and you have a right to disagree with it. I respect it. :}
I hoped that was a joke! WOW, now I'm speechless too!0 -
But I am genuinely curious, do any vegans here cater for meat eating people they invite over for dinner by providing animal products?
Not when guests come to dinner, but that is because I only cook for very close friends and they know me, they know I can cook and they know they won't miss the meat. And they never do either, but if I am throwing a party, and make say, ten different finger foods, I will put about three containing meat. Cocktail sausages, half the pizza will be cheese, the other half cheese and pepperoni.... and chicken and bacon vol au vonts. I'm not happy doing this but occasionally you have to do it when catering a party. The other seven, there will be tofu stuffed potato skins, Italian "sausage" rolls, two things people don't know is vegan until they see me eating it, potato wedges, garlic bread knots, bruschetta, falafel nuggets. The plates are always cleared and people are shown vegan foods are just as tasty. And my friends aren't the kind to tell a polite lie, they admit it begrudgingly or I overhear it. I gave a wedding cake as a gift, it was vegan, I didn't tell anyone, I figured this is my gift, I can save 80 eggs if I wish. 250 people were raving about it
edit: Oh, I forgot to say - when cooking the meat, I never use my own cooking equipment - my boyfriend has a frying pan and a pot for when he makes eggs or bacon, I use this
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the majority of the responses on here are from misinformed a-hats. there's a herbivore group on here that you should join if you want more information or you can add some vegans to your friends list. the only thing you might need to supplement is b12, everything else is plentiful in a vegan diet.
DHA, EPA, calcium, bioavailable vitamin D, haem iron are not all freely available in natural plant foods, many rely on vegan frankenfoods, supplements or go short. I'm not in any way suggesting a vegan diet is any more deficient than the standard US/ UK diet which we all know is appalling.
The conversion rate of short chain to long chain omega-3s can be as low as 10% and is affected by the levels of omega-6s in the diet which are plentiful in many nuts, seeds, soya, vegetable oils and grains. The amounts of things like flax oil, ground flaxseeds or chia you need to consume each day can be prohibitive to get an optimal intake. I always recommend vegetarian and vegan nutrition clients take a marine algae extract for DHA and EPA.
Calcium I calculated you'd need ~400g of flaxseeds or almonds or ~750g of spinach a day to hit the US target for an adult female (1g), again it's prohibitive. And that's ignoring the mineral binding factors in spinach and other plant foods. For both calcium and vitamin D many vegans and some veggies rely on fortified soya or almond 'dairy', let's be honest fortifying is just supplementing by another name.
Additional problems occur when you do the maths for different nutrients and try to combine - eating too many leafy greens doesn't leave you much room for the blue/ purple, red, and yellow/ orange produce, eating piles of almonds is incredibly high in calories and fat, and contains very little omega-3s. The reality is few want to eat solely for nutrition, they'd quite reasonably rather have peanut butter than gritty ground flax. But you'd need over a kilo of peanuts to get enough calcium, by contrast I can get the full amount in just 60g of grana padano cheese leaving me plenty of calories for a serving of oily fish for the DHA, EPA and B12.
We didn't evolve on a vegan diet and IMO it shows (not pushing primal nor paleo agendas, I am a lifestyle healthcare professional).0 -
what about giving up automobiles and airtravel,even less carbon foot print, cross Atlantic by sailboats manned by vegan sailors!!!:glasses: vegan food for thought!!!?:bigsmile:It looks like some people feel we can make up things like "animal rights" to help sooth our conscience. Well....how about we create "plant rights"? They are living things too.
Ya kind of a *kitten*, ain'tchya?
IT'S A TRAP.0 -
Well at least I'm being proved right on the sarcasm front. For heavens sake just grow up and accept that we are all different.0
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Thank you for the reply re: catering to non-vegans.
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We didn't evolve on a vegan diet and IMO it shows (not pushing primal nor paleo agendas, I am a lifestyle healthcare professional).
>_>0 -
the majority of the responses on here are from misinformed a-hats. there's a herbivore group on here that you should join if you want more information or you can add some vegans to your friends list. the only thing you might need to supplement is b12, everything else is plentiful in a vegan diet.
DHA, EPA, calcium, bioavailable vitamin D, haem iron are not all freely available in natural plant foods, many rely on vegan frankenfoods, supplements or go short. I'm not in any way suggesting a vegan diet is any more deficient than the standard US/ UK diet which we all know is appalling.
The conversion rate of short chain to long chain omega-3s can be as low as 10% and is affected by the levels of omega-6s in the diet which are plentiful in many nuts, seeds, soya, vegetable oils and grains. The amounts of things like flax oil, ground flaxseeds or chia you need to consume each day can be prohibitive to get an optimal intake. I always recommend vegetarian and vegan nutrition clients take a marine algae extract for DHA and EPA.
Calcium I calculated you'd need ~400g of flaxseeds or almonds or ~750g of spinach a day to hit the US target for an adult female (1g), again it's prohibitive. And that's ignoring the mineral binding factors in spinach and other plant foods. For both calcium and vitamin D many vegans and some veggies rely on fortified soya or almond 'dairy', let's be honest fortifying is just supplementing by another name.
Additional problems occur when you do the maths for different nutrients and try to combine - eating too many leafy greens doesn't leave you much room for the blue/ purple, red, and yellow/ orange produce, eating piles of almonds is incredibly high in calories and fat, and contains very little omega-3s. The reality is few want to eat solely for nutrition, they'd quite reasonably rather have peanut butter than gritty ground flax. But you'd need over a kilo of peanuts to get enough calcium, by contrast I can get the full amount in just 60g of grana padano cheese leaving me plenty of calories for a serving of oily fish for the DHA, EPA and B12.
We didn't evolve on a vegan diet and IMO it shows (not pushing primal nor paleo agendas, I am a lifestyle healthcare professional).
I looked back on my diary to look and see what nutrients I was getting. Interestingly I've been logging off and on for a few years. I'm getting way more of the nutrients that are tracked on a whole foods plant based diet than I was on a conventional diet, or the Mediterranean diet that I also tried for 6 months. I'm getting 100% or better of all the tracked nutrients. I eat about 2,000 calories per day on average. I try to also burn 3,000 calories per week through exercise. The parts of the world that have populations that are missing out on nutrients suffer from malnutrition due to a lack of food. The Standard American Diet kills not by malnutrition but by cardiovascular disease (heart attacks and stroke), cancer, and diabetes.0 -
So I guess people Like T. Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstyn, and John McDougall are just boobs that didn't do their research.........It's simple, if it's not for you, don't do it. It works for some, and some strive on it!(me included!) It's amazing how all the "experts" chime in on being vegan when they haven't experienced both sides of it......like I always say, take advice about being vegan from vegans. Others, 99% of the time, are clueless as to what they are talking about.the majority of the responses on here are from misinformed a-hats. there's a herbivore group on here that you should join if you want more information or you can add some vegans to your friends list. the only thing you might need to supplement is b12, everything else is plentiful in a vegan diet.
DHA, EPA, calcium, bioavailable vitamin D, haem iron are not all freely available in natural plant foods, many rely on vegan frankenfoods, supplements or go short. I'm not in any way suggesting a vegan diet is any more deficient than the standard US/ UK diet which we all know is appalling.
The conversion rate of short chain to long chain omega-3s can be as low as 10% and is affected by the levels of omega-6s in the diet which are plentiful in many nuts, seeds, soya, vegetable oils and grains. The amounts of things like flax oil, ground flaxseeds or chia you need to consume each day can be prohibitive to get an optimal intake. I always recommend vegetarian and vegan nutrition clients take a marine algae extract for DHA and EPA.
Calcium I calculated you'd need ~400g of flaxseeds or almonds or ~750g of spinach a day to hit the US target for an adult female (1g), again it's prohibitive. And that's ignoring the mineral binding factors in spinach and other plant foods. For both calcium and vitamin D many vegans and some veggies rely on fortified soya or almond 'dairy', let's be honest fortifying is just supplementing by another name.
Additional problems occur when you do the maths for different nutrients and try to combine - eating too many leafy greens doesn't leave you much room for the blue/ purple, red, and yellow/ orange produce, eating piles of almonds is incredibly high in calories and fat, and contains very little omega-3s. The reality is few want to eat solely for nutrition, they'd quite reasonably rather have peanut butter than gritty ground flax. But you'd need over a kilo of peanuts to get enough calcium, by contrast I can get the full amount in just 60g of grana padano cheese leaving me plenty of calories for a serving of oily fish for the DHA, EPA and B12.
We didn't evolve on a vegan diet and IMO it shows (not pushing primal nor paleo agendas, I am a lifestyle healthcare professional).0 -
So I guess people Like T. Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstyn, and John McDougall are just boobs that didn't do their research.........It's simple, if it's not for you, don't do it. It works for some, and some strive on it!(me included!) It's amazing how all the "experts" chime in on being vegan when they haven't experienced both sides of it......like I always say, take advice about being vegan from vegans. Others, 99% of the time, are clueless as to what they are talking about.the majority of the responses on here are from misinformed a-hats. there's a herbivore group on here that you should join if you want more information or you can add some vegans to your friends list. the only thing you might need to supplement is b12, everything else is plentiful in a vegan diet.
DHA, EPA, calcium, bioavailable vitamin D, haem iron are not all freely available in natural plant foods, many rely on vegan frankenfoods, supplements or go short. I'm not in any way suggesting a vegan diet is any more deficient than the standard US/ UK diet which we all know is appalling.
The conversion rate of short chain to long chain omega-3s can be as low as 10% and is affected by the levels of omega-6s in the diet which are plentiful in many nuts, seeds, soya, vegetable oils and grains. The amounts of things like flax oil, ground flaxseeds or chia you need to consume each day can be prohibitive to get an optimal intake. I always recommend vegetarian and vegan nutrition clients take a marine algae extract for DHA and EPA.
Calcium I calculated you'd need ~400g of flaxseeds or almonds or ~750g of spinach a day to hit the US target for an adult female (1g), again it's prohibitive. And that's ignoring the mineral binding factors in spinach and other plant foods. For both calcium and vitamin D many vegans and some veggies rely on fortified soya or almond 'dairy', let's be honest fortifying is just supplementing by another name.
Additional problems occur when you do the maths for different nutrients and try to combine - eating too many leafy greens doesn't leave you much room for the blue/ purple, red, and yellow/ orange produce, eating piles of almonds is incredibly high in calories and fat, and contains very little omega-3s. The reality is few want to eat solely for nutrition, they'd quite reasonably rather have peanut butter than gritty ground flax. But you'd need over a kilo of peanuts to get enough calcium, by contrast I can get the full amount in just 60g of grana padano cheese leaving me plenty of calories for a serving of oily fish for the DHA, EPA and B12.
We didn't evolve on a vegan diet and IMO it shows (not pushing primal nor paleo agendas, I am a lifestyle healthcare professional).
China study sucks.
Vegans deserve their poor health, which is just tuition paid to their own universe trying desperately to teach them about the nature of life. - Mark Rippetoe0 -
the majority of the responses on here are from misinformed a-hats. there's a herbivore group on here that you should join if you want more information or you can add some vegans to your friends list. the only thing you might need to supplement is b12, everything else is plentiful in a vegan diet.
DHA, EPA, calcium, bioavailable vitamin D, haem iron are not all freely available in natural plant foods, many rely on vegan frankenfoods, supplements or go short. I'm not in any way suggesting a vegan diet is any more deficient than the standard US/ UK diet which we all know is appalling.
The conversion rate of short chain to long chain omega-3s can be as low as 10% and is affected by the levels of omega-6s in the diet which are plentiful in many nuts, seeds, soya, vegetable oils and grains. The amounts of things like flax oil, ground flaxseeds or chia you need to consume each day can be prohibitive to get an optimal intake. I always recommend vegetarian and vegan nutrition clients take a marine algae extract for DHA and EPA.
Calcium I calculated you'd need ~400g of flaxseeds or almonds or ~750g of spinach a day to hit the US target for an adult female (1g), again it's prohibitive. And that's ignoring the mineral binding factors in spinach and other plant foods. For both calcium and vitamin D many vegans and some veggies rely on fortified soya or almond 'dairy', let's be honest fortifying is just supplementing by another name.
Additional problems occur when you do the maths for different nutrients and try to combine - eating too many leafy greens doesn't leave you much room for the blue/ purple, red, and yellow/ orange produce, eating piles of almonds is incredibly high in calories and fat, and contains very little omega-3s. The reality is few want to eat solely for nutrition, they'd quite reasonably rather have peanut butter than gritty ground flax. But you'd need over a kilo of peanuts to get enough calcium, by contrast I can get the full amount in just 60g of grana padano cheese leaving me plenty of calories for a serving of oily fish for the DHA, EPA and B12.
We didn't evolve on a vegan diet and IMO it shows (not pushing primal nor paleo agendas, I am a lifestyle healthcare professional).
I looked back on my diary to look and see what nutrients I was getting. Interestingly I've been logging off and on for a few years. I'm getting way more of the nutrients that are tracked on a whole foods plant based diet than I was on a conventional diet, or the Mediterranean diet that I also tried for 6 months. I'm getting 100% or better of all the tracked nutrients. I eat about 2,000 calories per day on average. I try to also burn 3,000 calories per week through exercise. The parts of the world that have populations that are missing out on nutrients suffer from malnutrition due to a lack of food. The Standard American Diet kills not by malnutrition but by cardiovascular disease (heart attacks and stroke), cancer, and diabetes.
Do you not realize that malnourishment does not only rear its ugly head with those that look like they are starving? Obesity can also be a sign of malnourishment.
The Western world is mostly overfed and under nourished.0 -
It depends on how and why you go vegan. Some do soley for ethical reasons and so they may not think about healthy eating. I went vegan initially for health reasons so I stay away from the vegan chickn and oreos for the most part. I was also never the biggest fan of meats and dairy is out since I am allergic. I also struggled with ibs which is nonexistent since becoming vegan.0
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I looked back on my diary to look and see what nutrients I was getting. Interestingly I've been logging off and on for a few years. I'm getting way more of the nutrients that are tracked on a whole foods plant based diet than I was on a conventional diet, or the Mediterranean diet that I also tried for 6 months. I'm getting 100% or better of all the tracked nutrients. I eat about 2,000 calories per day on average. I try to also burn 3,000 calories per week through exercise. The parts of the world that have populations that are missing out on nutrients suffer from malnutrition due to a lack of food. The Standard American Diet kills not by malnutrition but by cardiovascular disease (heart attacks and stroke), cancer, and diabetes.
As I said "I'm not in any way suggesting a vegan diet is any more deficient than the standard US/ UK diet which we all know is appalling."
You have misunderstood what the term malnutrition means, it encompasses many forms of poor nutrition including obesity and deficiencies not simply undernutrition/ undernourishment/ starvation.
http://www.who.int/nutrition/pressnote_action_on_malnutrition/en/
Malnutrition is an issue in all nations, deficiencies are seen concurrently with obesity: research the stats on magnesium and vitamin D in the west for example.
You might also want to research the links between deficiencies in magnesium, zinc, chromium and a couple of the B vitamins and insulin resistance/ type 2 diabetes; long chain omega-3s, magnesium, calcium, vitamin D and cardiovascular health; micronutrient/ antioxidant deficiencies and DNA damage or immune dysfunction (carcinogenesis). It's far from only the macronutrients (fats, proteins, carbs) that cause or contribute to lifestyle disease in the west.
Since you don't list which nutrients are being tracked your claims are meaningless - the post I responded to claimed EVERYTHING bar vitamin B12 is plentiful. I was quite specific about the nutrients and forms that are a problem or at risk in a vegan diet, other nutrients are a problem or at risk in other restrictive or commercial diets, which is why most healthcare and medical professionals don't advocate them.0 -
I assume this thread is so long because a bunch of flamers jumped in about how the OP shouldn't go vegan right? about how the "research" is all meaningless?
amiright?0 -
I assume this thread is so long because a bunch of flamers jumped in about how the OP shouldn't go vegan right? about how the "research" is all meaningless?
amiright?
You're saying that because you've jumped to a conclusion without reading anything. I see a trend.0 -
I assume this thread is so long because a bunch of flamers jumped in about how the OP shouldn't go vegan right? about how the "research" is all meaningless?
amiright?
You're saying that because you've jumped to a conclusion without reading anything. I see a trend.
i usually read everything and still jump to my same conclusions.
am i wrong about the thread?0 -
i usually read everything and still jump to my same conclusions.
We've noticed.0 -
I looked back on my diary to look and see what nutrients I was getting. Interestingly I've been logging off and on for a few years. I'm getting way more of the nutrients that are tracked on a whole foods plant based diet than I was on a conventional diet, or the Mediterranean diet that I also tried for 6 months. I'm getting 100% or better of all the tracked nutrients. I eat about 2,000 calories per day on average. I try to also burn 3,000 calories per week through exercise. The parts of the world that have populations that are missing out on nutrients suffer from malnutrition due to a lack of food. The Standard American Diet kills not by malnutrition but by cardiovascular disease (heart attacks and stroke), cancer, and diabetes.
I was quite specific about the nutrients and forms that are a problem or at risk in a vegan diet, other nutrients are a problem or at risk in other restrictive or commercial diets, which is why most healthcare and medical professionals don't advocate them.
veganism isn't a "restrictive" or "commercial" diet. Vegans don't view it as "I can't have meat". They simply don't WANT to have meat. There's a difference.
Additionally, healthcare professionals don't typically advocate veganism because it often leads to fewer trips to the doctor's office, provided you're smart and make sure you're getting - like you said - the necessary vitamins that may not be as abundant in typical veggies. However - there are plenty of whole food ways to GET the necessary vitamins without eating meat. Seaweed is a great example, as it has an incredible amount of calcium and iron. You just have to work a little harder, but it's all there (sans the B12).0 -
veganism isn't a "restrictive" or "commercial" diet. Vegans don't view it as "I can't have meat". They simply don't WANT to have meat. There's a difference.
OMG STOP IT ARE YOU KIDDING?
#1: Vegans != vegetarians.
#2: Humans have been consuming and using animal products for 30,000 years. To say that eliminating animal products isn't "restrictive" is simply insane.
Stop trolling.0 -
veganism isn't a "restrictive" or "commercial" diet. Vegans don't view it as "I can't have meat". They simply don't WANT to have meat. There's a difference.
OMG STOP IT ARE YOU KIDDING?
#1: Vegans != vegetarians.
#2: Humans have been consuming and using animal products for 30,000 years. To say that eliminating animal products isn't "restrictive" is simply insane.
Stop trolling.
restrictive implies you don't want to be doing it. it's not restrictive to me if I enjoy living that way. haha
and not trolling. 0 -
restrictive implies you don't want to be doing it. it's not restrictive to me if I enjoy living that way. haha
Incorrect.0 -
restrictive implies you don't want to be doing it. it's not restrictive to me if I enjoy living that way. haha
Incorrect.
this isn't a "correct" or "incorrect" kind of thing. just because it would feel restrictive to you, doesn't make it feel restrictive to me. and there's nothing wrong with either one. just a personal choice.0 -
veganism isn't a "restrictive" or "commercial" diet. Vegans don't view it as "I can't have meat". They simply don't WANT to have meat. There's a difference.
Additionally, healthcare professionals don't typically advocate veganism because it often leads to fewer trips to the doctor's office, provided you're smart and make sure you're getting - like you said - the necessary vitamins that may not be as abundant in typical veggies. However - there are plenty of whole food ways to GET the necessary vitamins without eating meat. Seaweed is a great example, as it has an incredible amount of calcium and iron. You just have to work a little harder, but it's all there (sans the B12).
Which all sounds logical until you consider that the United States is not the centre of the universe and other countries don't all run their healthcare system the same as yours. The UK National Health Service is the largest employer in Europe, it is NON profit making and bulk funded through taxation not individual direct payments. Hospitals and GP practices manage their own budgets which are basically paid on number of patients not number of visits, so should be better off financially with fewer patient visits provided members of the public remain living in the catchment area of the hospital and registered at the surgery.
Whilst a better nourished and healthier population could mean fewer men of working age register at a GP practice, children will still need vaccinating, females of childbearing age will still need birth control and elderly people will still be elderly so it's likely they will continue to register (free). Most of the healthcare professionals I have worked alongside over the last two decades have been in the field because they want to make a difference, to work with people, because they are interested in human biology or public health. Most would be delighted not to be chronically overworked! And most taxpayers would be delighted if their income tax liability fell.
You've made this claim about seaweed before and I debunked it before too. There is ZERO haem iron in any seaweed, unless it's genetically modified. Raw kelp was the best seaweed for calcium of the ones on Self, only needing an adult female to eat about 600g a day for the recommended 1g intake, you'd need to up that to about 640g to get 18mg non haem iron for an adult female. As you say I'd have to work pretty hard to eat that much each day!0 -
I'm a little confused about all the folks who insist on a vegan diet because of how animals are treated on factory farms. It's like saying you're going to be completely nudist because of sweat shop labor.0
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Life has balance. I believe vegans counter meat eaters. They both help each other to an extent.
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
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