Why should I go VEGAN??
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So you've only JUST decided to go vegan and you have all these convictions? Why not sooner if you felt so strongly about it? I feel that you should be walking the walk to be able to tell others to do the same! I know vegans who have been in the game for 5+ years and I will listen to them because they've been doing it for so long. Not a mere "I've just decided to go vegan so you should too" kinda thing. When was the last time you ate meat or dairy?0
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DONT GO VEGAN !0
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7. You're saying being vegan makes you look better and fitter? How? A balanced diet does the same. And a vegan diet is not balanced.
I don't see many "why you should eat meat" threads, although I don't think they'd be out of place given the "why you should be a vegan" ones...
Eat whatever you like but don't suggest that those of us eating a balanced diet as expected by nature are doing bad things for our health. We are doing exactly as our bodies expect.
As for killing with claws and teeth, we evolved and found more efficient ways to do it using tools.
But before we invented spears and traps we did use our hands.0 -
http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys-negative-effects\\\And if you own a car, you are hurting the enviroment.0
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I should apologise I have been over zealous. So Sorry for ranting.
I suppose I mean perhaps I feel and look better than I did when I ate meat, and not generalise it for everyone else.
And evolving to use tools, all I will say is touché, dammit. My one last input though is that we require fire and tools to eat animals that other carnivores don't. I'm sorry but I can't leave things lol.
I guess you and me both will keep eating the way we like, so if its working for you congratulations, I hope you hit your weight loss goals. I hope I hit mine too.
I hate being riled up so I'll agree to disagree on certain things. Good luck with your weight loss.0 -
That's cool.
I wish you the best health whichever diet you choose to follow.
Just make sure you're eating the fortified stuff so you get the right amount of calcium, vit D, vit B12 etc.
It's not an easy choice and I wish you luck with it!0 -
Cheers. I'm doing my research and learning all the time so I hope I do ok.
When my skin starts falling off and I turn yellow I'll come apologetically crawling back to this post grovelling for some help.
Btw the way this is not sarcasm I'm being serious lol.
Now where did I put that carrot......0 -
What do you do when you are married (ten years) and your partner is pescetarian but when you make the switch to vegan your food choices become such a problem that it affects the relationship?
"So when I want tuna pasta - what are you going to eat? Do I have to prepare two meals?" "So when I do Leeks in cheese sauce - what are you going to eat?" - and so every evening goes.
The way I see it there are two options - wait for her to die and then I can eat what I like (a bit harsh!) - or end the marriage (also a bit harsh!) - or cave.
Any suggestions?0 -
^^ cook your own dinner & tell her to chill out over it? My husband is thai & wants to eat thai food every day, I don't so we each cook our own meals. has worked for the past decade so it is doable.0
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That's one option. I have tried that approach and it seems she takes it personally if I "refuse her culinary offerings" when I get home; a sensitive issue.0
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ahh well if she is sensitive about it then tell her to go vegan too
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Tell her you take it personally when she refuses yours so how is it different?
(Not that such logic will ever fly with women, lol!)0 -
Yeah - you see - I get to this point in the argument and I just want to go and eat steak!0
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I tried to walk in that direction two weeks ago. (I eat eggs and don't see any reason not to). But my weight instantly jumped and I didn't feel as good. Always full. That's not a nice feeling.
I think that some bodies do well on Vegan. Others, like mine, seem to be made for eating meat. Perhaps it's in our DNA0 -
I was ok with being vegetarian up until last year, thought I was doing the ethical & kind thing, until I became an on shore volunteer for Sea Shepherd. I discovered all of their crew were vegan and only vegan meals were cooked on board ships. I did some digging about why people go that but further than vegetarian and must say I was horrified and almost think that being veggie is a bit hypocritical you won't eat animals, but you will let them die for you so you can have dairy. It's mental really.
I have done vegan pledges for weeks at a time, and only very very recently have I decided to go full vegan. I'm losing weight nicely too.
For me, this is why..
Dairy cows have to have babies yearly to produce milk. This is the milk meant for their babies. It's like me putting breast milk in your coffee .. fancy some? lol ..These babies, if boys are most often dragged away from mothers at birth & either left to die (I have seen footage, it's horrendous) in a pen next to the mother whilst she calls & bellows for her baby .. (and they do, they cry out to their child, it's heartbreaking) All so I can have milk on my weetabix! Then when she becomes too old at just 4-5 yrs of age (the normal life expectancy for a Fresian cow is 25-30 YEARS!) she is taken for slaughter. Some dairy cows are too weak through over milking to walk to slaughter so they are carried by forklift and dumped where they need to be.
Cows are my favourite animal, such gentle giants and it kills me this happens
With chickens (for eggs) I presumed that male chicks were what people ate & female chicks were layers. Wrong. Again, the boys are not wanted. They obviously don't lay and apparently their flesh is too tough for meat, so they are killed at 1-2 days old. Methods are usually to be suffocated or poured into a vat of water & electrocuted, or (still used regularly in USA but not so much here, although there are still places that use them) are grinding machines. They go in alive. People talk about hell, but I think that these slaughter houses are hell.
I just can't be a part of it. To think that a calf has laid there pining for its mother and that she has bellowed for him whilst he's shot or lays there dying all so I can have a drop of milk or cheese sickens me!
I have a picture on my phone with a beautiful calf in a wheelbarrow in a barn being carried away from its mother .. The caption reads 'I was born a few hours ago, but will never see my mother again. But it's ok as it's for someone who can't imagine not eating a bit of cheese' ..
That breaks my heart .
Leading cardiologists have said it's the healthiest diet, but for me it's about the ethical side.
You can get lovely alternatives, stuff for dinners, sandwiches, 'cheese' etc ...
There's a lot of info for anyone thinking of trying out veganism or going vegetarian on www.viva.org.uk
Even considering it is wonderful though, or doing it one day a week for a bit, or every two days.. You feel cleaner, purer if that makes sense? And you feel guilt free ..0 -
I'm going vegan.0
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I'm going vegan.
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Dairy cows have to have babies yearly to produce milk. This is the milk meant for their babies. It's like me putting breast milk in your coffee .. fancy some? lol ..These babies, if boys are most often dragged away from mothers at birth & either left to die (I have seen footage, it's horrendous) in a pen next to the mother whilst she calls & bellows for her baby .. (and they do, they cry out to their child, it's heartbreaking) All so I can have milk on my weetabix! Then when she becomes too old at just 4-5 yrs of age (the normal life expectancy for a Fresian cow is 25-30 YEARS!) she is taken for slaughter. Some dairy cows are too weak through over milking to walk to slaughter so they are carried by forklift and dumped where they need to be.
Cows are my favourite animal, such gentle giants and it kills me this happens
With chickens (for eggs) I presumed that male chicks were what people ate & female chicks were layers. Wrong. Again, the boys are not wanted. They obviously don't lay and apparently their flesh is too tough for meat, so they are killed at 1-2 days old. Methods are usually to be suffocated or poured into a vat of water & electrocuted, or (still used regularly in USA but not so much here, although there are still places that use them) are grinding machines. They go in alive. People talk about hell, but I think that these slaughter houses are hell.
I'd already mentioned this earlier in the thread, however:
Calves in dairy farms are bucket raised if they are to be kept - if they are not (dairy bulls, most lactations are to a meat breed) they are shot. This is not news. If they were left to starve Animal Health would be all over the farmer concerned (and quite rightly too). The ones to be kept are the ones placed in a pen next to their mother precisely so they can have contact etc but not suckle - its an effort to reduce stress.
The average life expectancy of a holstein is 25 years? Do me a favour - go and talk to someone who has kept cows. But of course they are slaughtered after their useful life, meat animals are slaughtered before this, obviously (pre 36 months). They are slauughtered to the same standards as meat cows.
Any place there is livestock there will be dead/ill stock. I can (just about) carry a sick sheep - now try and do that with a cow please. Of course they are moved by loader if they cant walk.
Male chicks are usually gassed, for what its worth. All laying hens are slaughtered after the first cycle - again, subject to the same regs as any other slaughter.
A lot of the propaganda is emotive bull****, designed to make you anthropomorphise.
If you dont like meat, dont eat it - and as I have said, kudos to vegans for realising that the wool, egg and dairy industry ARE the meat industry, but if you are comfortable with a swift death (as I am) then there is no reason not to eat meat.0 -
I know this is a "fitness website" but veganism and vegetarianism is, in fact, an ethical argument. And we can't really judge a persons ethics on only one part of their lifestyle.
Why ya gotta go make the internet so hard? Now I gotta be all rational and what not!?
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Dairy cows have to have babies yearly to produce milk. This is the milk meant for their babies. It's like me putting breast milk in your coffee .. fancy some? lol ..These babies, if boys are most often dragged away from mothers at birth & either left to die (I have seen footage, it's horrendous) in a pen next to the mother whilst she calls & bellows for her baby .. (and they do, they cry out to their child, it's heartbreaking) All so I can have milk on my weetabix! Then when she becomes too old at just 4-5 yrs of age (the normal life expectancy for a Fresian cow is 25-30 YEARS!) she is taken for slaughter. Some dairy cows are too weak through over milking to walk to slaughter so they are carried by forklift and dumped where they need to be.
Cows are my favourite animal, such gentle giants and it kills me this happens
With chickens (for eggs) I presumed that male chicks were what people ate & female chicks were layers. Wrong. Again, the boys are not wanted. They obviously don't lay and apparently their flesh is too tough for meat, so they are killed at 1-2 days old. Methods are usually to be suffocated or poured into a vat of water & electrocuted, or (still used regularly in USA but not so much here, although there are still places that use them) are grinding machines. They go in alive. People talk about hell, but I think that these slaughter houses are hell.
I'd already mentioned this earlier in the thread, however:
Calves in dairy farms are bucket raised if they are to be kept - if they are not (dairy bulls, most lactations are to a meat breed) they are shot. This is not news. If they were left to starve Animal Health would be all over the farmer concerned (and quite rightly too). The ones to be kept are the ones placed in a pen next to their mother precisely so they can have contact etc but not suckle - its an effort to reduce stress.
The average life expectancy of a holstein is 25 years? Do me a favour - go and talk to someone who has kept cows. But of course they are slaughtered after their useful life, meat animals are slaughtered before this, obviously (pre 36 months). They are slauughtered to the same standards as meat cows.
Any place there is livestock there will be dead/ill stock. I can (just about) carry a sick sheep - now try and do that with a cow please. Of course they are moved by loader if they cant walk.
Male chicks are usually gassed, for what its worth. All laying hens are slaughtered after the first cycle - again, subject to the same regs as any other slaughter.
A lot of the propaganda is emotive bull****, designed to make you anthropomorphise.
If you dont like meat, dont eat it - and as I have said, kudos to vegans for realising that the wool, egg and dairy industry ARE the meat industry, but if you are comfortable with a swift death (as I am) then there is no reason not to eat meat.
a couple things
1) it's more than the killing (and throwing chicks into a grinder is pretty messed up), it's how they're raised. I'm all for raising your own animals and slaughtering them for food. I'm not against that AT ALL. But I'm against the disgusting practices that take place at factory farms, such as:
- Chickens' beaks are sanded down to a nub by a belt sander - imagine someone did that to your teeth. How would that feel?
- Chickens raised for meat are now so genetically modified, that many can't even STAND UP because their breast is so large.
- You don't address the forced pregnancy of cows to make them lactate nonstop. That's gotta be a special kind of hell.
- Those chicks that get thrown into a meat grinder? Where does the chicken "by-product" go? Back into the food they feed the other chickens. So we force them to eat themselves. Nice.
2) What about those environmental effects? Being the second highest contributor to air pollution and global warming - ahead of all traffic? (again, not propaganda - just pesky facts)
3) There are appreciable health risks with the typical American consumption of meat. In the last hundred years, our meat consumption has risen by 500%. That means we're all eating 5x more meat than a typical American in 1900.
Guess what else has risen by about 500%? Prevalence of heart disease, stroke, cancer, etc.
Now I'm not going to ignore that increased methods detection plays a role in that number rising, but I would venture to guess it's not the only contributor. Why? Because when a man who has eaten copious amounts of meat his whole life, and is now pre-heart surgery due to blocked arteries, is treated with a plant-based diet, his arterial blockage dissipates DRAMATICALLY in a short period of time. Surgery can be delayed for years, if it's even needed at all. This isn't anecdote, this comes from studies. Peer-reviewed an everything.
If eating a veggie based diet can reverse heart disease, don't you think that eating it your whole life will help PREVENT it?0 -
To SteveJWatson
You make valid points."Any place there is livestock there will be dead/ill stock. I can (just about) carry a sick sheep - now try and do that with a cow please. Of course they are moved by loader if they can’t walk. "
Interesting point – of course you would not wish to carry a terminally sick animal; either financially or humanely. It would make sense to bring a quick end to suffering. However, I guess the ultimate view of the vegan society as a whole would be that everyone switches to a vegan lifestyle and so you would not have the worry of carrying or despatching sick livestock as you would be an arable farmer.
Of course, this would permanently change the landscape and possibly demand more acreage for crop production – I don’t know – but maybe there is already enough acreage as we wouldn’t be growing drops to feed animals for consumption?"Male chicks are usually gassed, for what its worth."
True – actually they are dropped into a large dustbin and when the bin is full the gas canister is thrown in and the lid secured, so many chicks at the bottom of the bin actually slowly suffocate as they are smothered by the chicks above them. Not the quick death one would imagine then. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen this process myself.
Considering then that animal slaughter is not as swift as the meat market would have us believe, my choice is to change to a vegan diet and lifestyle. It is of course, each to their own.0 -
I made the decision to be vegan over a year ago, and have not missed meat in the least. I feel better physically and mentally, and like you, I did not want to contribute to unecessary suffering of animals. I grew up on a small beef farm where the animals were treated humanely for the most part, but the treatment of animals on today's factory farms is not humane. Those animals will often never walk on grass, feel the sunshine or roll in the dust during their entire lives. There's something fundamentally wrong with humans enslaving animals in this manner when other sources of food are available and more sustainable.0
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I'm a vegetarian, but I've thought about going vegan before. I'll have to see that documentary.
Be prepared when you go to watch that documentary. Parts of it are brutal... I had to fast forward through some parts since I just couldn't bare to watch them.
I am vegetarian. I don't consume a lot of animal products. I do still eat eggs and use the odd bit of milk or cream in my coffee.
I have thought about becoming vegan however right now it's not good for finances and my husband loves meat so those would still be purchased (although he doesn't eat nearly as much since I have stopped eating meat). It was a bit of a tough switch for me to become vegetarian due to how many meals we eat at my in laws however they have been good with making me another option for dinner without meat.
Being vegetarian, and if I make the switch to vegan, I will not and don't hold other peoples choices against them nor do i think they are wrong in what they choose to eat. Everyone can make a choice and it's no one elses place to judge a persons choices in life. Just because one may believe in the vegan lifestyle doesn't mean it is better or worse than a meat eater.0 -
IN before the lock!0
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LMFAO,,,,Why should I go VEGAN??
Because you want to sacrifice your own personal needs so that people like me can eat more bacon...0 -
I think that it may be a good idea. I am Pesketarian so nothing but fish. I plan to switch from not even that but I am on a high protein diet so I need my protein. It is whatever you choose to do. Make sure to take supplements providing that not all things Vegans eat have your daily nutrients.0
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Can't see why this thread would need to be locked - can you?IN before the lock!0 -
a couple things
1) it's more than the killing (and throwing chicks into a grinder is pretty messed up), it's how they're raised. I'm all for raising your own animals and slaughtering them for food. I'm not against that AT ALL. But I'm against the disgusting practices that take place at factory farms, such as:
- Chickens' beaks are sanded down to a nub by a belt sander - imagine someone did that to your teeth. How would that feel?
- Chickens raised for meat are now so genetically modified, that many can't even STAND UP because their breast is so large.
- You don't address the forced pregnancy of cows to make them lactate nonstop. That's gotta be a special kind of hell.
- Those chicks that get thrown into a meat grinder? Where does the chicken "by-product" go? Back into the food they feed the other chickens. So we force them to eat themselves. Nice.
2) What about those environmental effects? Being the second highest contributor to air pollution and global warming - ahead of all traffic? (again, not propaganda - just pesky facts)
3) There are appreciable health risks with the typical American consumption of meat. In the last hundred years, our meat consumption has risen by 500%. That means we're all eating 5x more meat than a typical American in 1900.
Guess what else has risen by about 500%? Prevalence of heart disease, stroke, cancer, etc.
Now I'm not going to ignore that increased methods detection plays a role in that number rising, but I would venture to guess it's not the only contributor. Why? Because when a man who has eaten copious amounts of meat his whole life, and is now pre-heart surgery due to blocked arteries, is treated with a plant-based diet, his arterial blockage dissipates DRAMATICALLY in a short period of time. Surgery can be delayed for years, if it's even needed at all. This isn't anecdote, this comes from studies. Peer-reviewed an everything.
If eating a veggie based diet can reverse heart disease, don't you think that eating it your whole life will help PREVENT it?
1) Not in this country they aint - its done with a thing a bit like the clippers you use for dogs nails. Beak clipping in general cuts the sharp overhang on the upper mandible so that chickens don't peck at each other, since they can be pretty nasty to each other, even in the freest range situations. I dont think free range hens are routinely clipped. Either way its below the quick, so its more akin to nail cutting. They need the rest of the beak to eat.
There are breeds of meat bird who grow so fast they have leg probs etc - they are only 'genetically modified' in that they are selectiveley bred. Again, free ranging helps take care of this.
Chicken by-products go for dogfood etc, not back to chickens - the regs since foot and mouth over here are very strict. Although chickens are omnivorous so I have less of a problem with them eating meat protein. I've seen mine eat all kinds of bugs, small frogs and once or twice small mice (!).
NB - I am not a chicken farmer. I just have a few.
Cows are not 'forced' to get pregnant - they are served/ai'd when they come in heat. Animals dont get 'time off from having a baby'. Its the same with my sheep - although they are served naturally, they come into season in autumn, and are then tupped to have lambs in the spring. Livestock are not pets, nor are they wild animals - that said, most wild creatures are mated once every ovulation (unless they are barren).
2) I would dispute that it is ahead of traffic - but then again, what about crop production? That burns a hell of a lot of diesel, and the world needs feeding whether it be plant or animal matter. Intensive arable production aims to meet the needs of the population, so vegan or not you are buying into this.
3) I am not attempting to say one is healthier than the other - I only waded in to clear up farming misconceptions. Like I said, if you don't want to eat meat dont. I would imagine that the vast majority of the population in 1900 did a hell of a lot more manual work than people do now and therefore burn more calories. They also died of a whole load of other diseases and lived shorter lives. There are a hell of a lot of differences in daily life, I'm not sure how you can really compare the two with any degree of accuracy. I would happen to agree that people need to eat more fruit and veg - PROPER fruit and veg...ie tin its natural state, and not processed in some way.0 -
I made the decision to be vegan over a year ago, and have not missed meat in the least. I feel better physically and mentally, and like you, I did not want to contribute to unecessary suffering of animals. I grew up on a small beef farm where the animals were treated humanely for the most part, but the treatment of animals on today's factory farms is not humane. Those animals will often never walk on grass, feel the sunshine or roll in the dust during their entire lives. There's something fundamentally wrong with humans enslaving animals in this manner when other sources of food are available and more sustainable.
We dont have the large indoor cattle units over here - most ruminants are grazed for some of the year - some very hardy breeds of cattle outwinter, the rest are brought in and fed silage etc over the winter, which has been going on since forever. Most sheep outwinter here and are out most of the year.0 -
To SteveJWatson
You make valid points."Any place there is livestock there will be dead/ill stock. I can (just about) carry a sick sheep - now try and do that with a cow please. Of course they are moved by loader if they can’t walk. "
Interesting point – of course you would not wish to carry a terminally sick animal; either financially or humanely. It would make sense to bring a quick end to suffering. However, I guess the ultimate view of the vegan society as a whole would be that everyone switches to a vegan lifestyle and so you would not have the worry of carrying or despatching sick livestock as you would be an arable farmer.
Of course, this would permanently change the landscape and possibly demand more acreage for crop production – I don’t know – but maybe there is already enough acreage as we wouldn’t be growing drops to feed animals for consumption?"Male chicks are usually gassed, for what its worth."
True – actually they are dropped into a large dustbin and when the bin is full the gas canister is thrown in and the lid secured, so many chicks at the bottom of the bin actually slowly suffocate as they are smothered by the chicks above them. Not the quick death one would imagine then. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have seen this process myself.
Considering then that animal slaughter is not as swift as the meat market would have us believe, my choice is to change to a vegan diet and lifestyle. It is of course, each to their own.
Yes, but my point is, If I had a sick sheep I couldn't treat in the field - I might bring it in, and to do that I could carry it to the truck and put it in the back. I could not do this with a cow. If it was beyond help - I can't think of a situation where any livestockman I know wouldn't shoot it there and then.
The problem with the 'just grow crops for human consumption' argument is that it ignores geography. Not all grain makes the cut (in fact not a lot of it over here) to be suitable for milling etc and all it is good for is fodder. Not all land is suitable for putting under the plough.
Of course, the lines are blurred slightly, even though good arable land is worth more than pasture - where they are blurred is that poor arable land might grow very good grass and the farmer may choose to graze animals as opposed to grow fodder crops. Poor grazing land is really only suitable for hardy cattle and sheep in this country. It is often shallow and at the kind of gradient that I wouldn't fancy driving a tractor on thankyou.
I dont know any more than you about male chicks. I am not a chicken farmer. I had thought in big hatcheries they were on some kind of conveyor belt, not that it makes it much better. I have no idea how the organic people address this - I can imagine it is on their agenda somewhere.0
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