Doritos are not meth.
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According to OP, it all boils down to "will power".... wow....
Right... and if you think happy thoughts you can fly. lol
She might be partially right... i mean... it does take quite a bit of willpower... but if people need to avoid certain foods in order to maintain willpower then it's a valuable tactic. I disagree with her approach in that sense. I understand how chemicals work in the brain so I know better. It takes time to overcome and people need to use whatever coping skills they have.
Agreed!0 -
It is frustrating to see people who have no experience with of formal training in addictions posting as if they know what addictions are.
1. Addictions are NOT all mental. There are provable and measurable physiological differences in brain chemistry for addicts versus non-addicts.
2. Conquering addiction is NOT simply a matter of will power. If it were, there would have been no reason for 12-step recovery programs to have developed, or to have flourished and succeeded in helping so many people manage their addictions.
3. An addict does not stop being an addict. Will power does not change our brain chemistry. Nor does "learning new habits." Similarly, a real alcoholic doesn't one day learn enough self-awareness, or develop so may new good habits that they can suddenly go out with their friends and drink like a lady.
4. If you think you had an addiction, but you learned to practice in moderation, I would argue that an addiction was not your problem. You just had a bad habit that you learned to change, and that is wonderful.
5. If you had a bad habit that you learned to change and you preach to addicts and tell them that they just need more will-power, or to learn to develop healthier habits in order to overcome their addiction, you do not understand the nature of addiction, and you are speaking out of ignorance. That is not meant to be rude. I'm not calling you stupid. Ignorance just means you don't have all the facts. So please don't pretend you do.0 -
I am a food addict, I don't understand moderation.
That's just an excuse, everyone understands moderation, you just have to say NO to yourself and see it through.
It isn't easy, but it's not impossible if you keep trying.
I'm sorry, but are you a psychiatrist? A medical doctor? If not, perhaps you should not try speaking with authority on topics you do not understand.
There is a HUGE difference between "understanding moderation" and being able to practice it as an addict. I'm am highly educated, and have spent many years learning to understand addictions, myself, and my behaviors. I know the meaning of moderation. However, as an alcoholic, I cannot have "just one drink" because that drink changes my brain chemistry in a way that it does not change yours. In the same way, I cannot have "just one cookie or cupcake." This is WHY we have such groups as Overeaters Anonymous. Because will power is not enough for some people. Please refrain from speaking as if you are an expert on a subject you nothing about other than your own experience. Your experience is not the same as everyone else's, and it is stupid to think otherwise.
It's great that you can eat crap in moderation. Don't shame the people who cannot. It's just plain rude, and it makes you look like a jerk.
Well Said!! Thank you!0 -
According to OP, it all boils down to "will power".... wow....
Umm. It does. Every food craving can be controlled with enough discipline. You think your craving and urges are bad? Go speak with a professional bodybuilder or fitness model right before a show. They have it MUCH worse and they best of them never stray from their course.
To say it all due to will power is ignoring biochemistry and psychological roots of addiction. Food addiction is real. I agree with some of what OP said (people should not freak out for going over their calorie goal on any given day), just not in manner in which she said the rest.
Addiction can be beat with discipline. In every single case.
Dieting is about willpower. Pure and simple. You can deny and excuse yourself all you want, but it's your loss.
yes, it's not all mental and your chemistry changes. That just makes it harder. Not impossible. The mere fact that many people have beaten addictions of every sort, especially food addictions, with nothing more than discipline proves it can be done.0 -
Choosing a junk-food-free lifestyle is not the same as saying, "this junk food has so much control over me that I can't have it around." You are making a leap here.
Personally, I'm not giving up junk food or Wendy's. I want to have these things on occasion, when it's appropriate, for the rest of my life. So, I have to learn how to have a healthy relationship with Doritos and Junior Bacon Cheeseburgers, which includes using my willpower to make the right choices.
No leap. I am exercising my will power by choosing a junk food free lifestyle. I'm taking control away from my food by just not having it around.
I believe I could have the will power to resist Doritos. It would be a battle, like say the Doritos are the Emperor in Star Wars, and I'm Luke Skywalker, and my will power is Darth Vader - You think the evil emperor doritos are going to conquer because it looks like Darth Willpower is on his side, but then Darth Willpower decides to be good, and destroys the evil Dorito Emperor in the end.
My point is why have the battle at all? It's not being weak, or lazy. Like you said, it's your personal choice to not give up junk food or Wendy's, but that's not for everyone. I personally think there is nothing healthy about a relationship with a bag of Doritos or a JBC. I'm not even sure it's real food.0 -
One last point I think I should share while I'm on my high horse:
If you have a clinically-diagnosed food addiction, this thread probably isn't for you. You are a special case, you do have to manage things in your universe differently than the average person.
But for the run of the mill, average member of MFP, who doesn't see a doctor about their willpower and food, it's pretty safe to say you can enjoy Doritos in moderation with enough determination.
I decided to quote myself here on page 10 or so, since the ageism posts seem to have taken away from the subject at hand.0 -
People that suffer from binge eating, often have to avoid certain foods, situations, and temptations to stay on track. Don't judge if you've never been there.
It's like saying, I only smoke in "moderation"
This. Food addiction to those who suffer from it is very very real. It's just as real as alcohol addiction or yes, meth addiction to those who suffer from that. Those who are food addicts, their brain reacts in the same way that people who are addicted to alcohol and drugs. I doubt we would ever say to an alcoholic that by removing alcohol from their lives....they are just lazy and have no willpower and just need to work harder.
I was an alc/substance abuse counselor at my last job....and the cycle of addiction is so similar to those who suffer from food addicts...especially chronic binge eating. Unfortunately, food addiction isn't taken seriously by most...and often mocked...aka "Doritos are not meth." To those with food addiction...yes, in fact...they are.
^^ Well said!0 -
Hate Doritos, they taste like salted paper card to me.0
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It is frustrating to see people who have no experience with of formal training in addictions posting as if they know what addictions are.
1. Addictions are NOT all mental. There are provable and measurable physiological differences in brain chemistry for addicts versus non-addicts.
2. Conquering addiction is NOT simply a matter of will power. If it were, there would have been no reason for 12-step recovery programs to have developed, or to have flourished and succeeded in helping so many people manage their addictions.
3. An addict does not stop being an addict. Will power does not change our brain chemistry. Nor does "learning new habits." Similarly, a real alcoholic doesn't one day learn enough self-awareness, or develop so may new good habits that they can suddenly go out with their friends and drink like a lady.
4. If you think you had an addiction, but you learned to practice in moderation, I would argue that an addiction was not your problem. You just had a bad habit that you learned to change, and that is wonderful.
5. If you had a bad habit that you learned to change and you preach to addicts and tell them that they just need more will-power, or to learn to develop healthier habits in order to overcome their addiction, you do not understand the nature of addiction, and you are speaking out of ignorance. That is not meant to be rude. I'm not calling you stupid. Ignorance just means you don't have all the facts. So please don't pretend you do.
YEEEEESSSSSS^^^^ This this this
Try quitting meth and switching to food and sugar. Then try changing your eating habits after relying on food to supplement your serotonin for several years. Not really... DON'T try it. You'll regret it.0 -
I am a food addict, I don't understand moderation.
That's just an excuse, everyone understands moderation, you just have to say NO to yourself and see it through.
It isn't easy, but it's not impossible if you keep trying.
I'm sorry, but are you a psychiatrist? A medical doctor? If not, perhaps you should not try speaking with authority on topics you do not understand.
It's great that you can eat crap in moderation. Don't shame the people who cannot. It's just plain rude, and it makes you look like a jerk.
I'm sorry? I don't understand, really? I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt & lost the weight, so please, go on & tell me how I do not understand.
No actually, I was saying it in a stern encouraging "it is possible, you can do it" way! No shaming intended.
Being a binge eater, alcoholic, addict of anything, is something you can overcome, you just have to stop making excuses & work at it.
It's nice to see that after a year MFP still has people who jump the gun & ride high horses.
And people thinking that everyone is the same and they know everything about losing weight....0 -
According to OP, it all boils down to "will power".... wow....
Mmm..I was mostly trying to make the point that our mind is very strong. Saying "I can't control myself around sweets" is a great way to convince yourself you can't control yourself around sweets. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also, to forgive yourself for mistakes. I binged the other night. I am not a worthless fat loser, I am someone who made a decision that they later regretted. I thought about it, and then moved on. I just want people to be nicer to themselves really.
:flowerforyou:
Our mind is definitely powerful. I agree, that we shouldn't kill ourselves at the gym for eating a cookie. And we should forgive ourselves for the occasional binge that is bound to happen. We should be nice to ourselves and realize we are only human. Mistakes happen, binges happen.
I get what you are saying. When those mistakes and binges happen, some people beat themselves up about it. You are telling them not to.
It's easier said than done (as I'm sure you know). Some people aren't ready to forgive themselves for it, but they will get there. I just recently started arriving to that idea after 2 years of trying to "diet". 40 lbs lost and I still hate myself for binges. But now, I just track it and keep going. I can do better the next day. Binges happen. I won't gain those 40 lbs from that one binge.
I guess some people think that with the addiction to food that they have, having their trigger foods around doesn't help them. And when you say "use willpower" it's taken as "get over yourself and just say no". I know you don't mean it that way. I think you meant to say it takes a while but eventually you get to a point when binging on the trigger foods becomes a decision instead of a compulsion. And that's when you learn moderation with those trigger foods.
I have moderation with SOME of my trigger foods. But not all of them. So I still can't have certain foods in the house.
We are all a work in progress. We are all here to better ourselves.
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Addiction can be beat with discipline. In every single case.
It takes more than discipline to "beat" an addiction. While discipline is **excellent** for changing bad eating habits, a true addiction is caused by brain chemistry, and all the discipline in the world won't change that.0 -
According to OP, it all boils down to "will power".... wow....
Mmm..I was mostly trying to make the point that our mind is very strong. Saying "I can't control myself around sweets" is a great way to convince yourself you can't control yourself around sweets. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also, to forgive yourself for mistakes. I binged the other night. I am not a worthless fat loser, I am someone who made a decision that they later regretted. I thought about it, and then moved on. I just want people to be nicer to themselves really.
:flowerforyou:
Our mind is definitely powerful. I agree, that we shouldn't kill ourselves at the gym for eating a cookie. And we should forgive ourselves for the occasional binge that is bound to happen. We should be nice to ourselves and realize we are only human. Mistakes happen, binges happen.
I get what you are saying. When those mistakes and binges happen, some people beat themselves up about it. You are telling them not to.
It's easier said than done (as I'm sure you know). Some people aren't ready to forgive themselves for it, but they will get there. I just recently started arriving to that idea after 2 years of trying to "diet". 40 lbs lost and I still hate myself for binges. But now, I just track it and keep going. I can do better the next day. Binges happen. I won't gain those 40 lbs from that one binge.
I guess some people think that with the addiction to food that they have, having their trigger foods around doesn't help them. And when you say "use willpower" it's taken as "get over yourself and just say no". I know you don't mean it that way. I think you meant to say it takes a while but eventually you get to a point when binging on the trigger foods becomes a decision instead of a compulsion. And that's when you learn moderation with those trigger foods.
I have moderation with SOME of my trigger foods. But not all of them. So I still can't have certain foods in the house.
We are all a work in progress. We are all here to better ourselves.
I like Tina0 -
Oh darn it....I just ate going away party cake and I liked it :noway:0
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I am a food addict, I don't understand moderation.
That's just an excuse, everyone understands moderation, you just have to say NO to yourself and see it through.
It isn't easy, but it's not impossible if you keep trying.
I'm sorry, but are you a psychiatrist? A medical doctor? If not, perhaps you should not try speaking with authority on topics you do not understand.
It's great that you can eat crap in moderation. Don't shame the people who cannot. It's just plain rude, and it makes you look like a jerk.
I'm sorry? I don't understand, really? I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt & lost the weight, so please, go on & tell me how I do not understand.
No actually, I was saying it in a stern encouraging "it is possible, you can do it" way! No shaming intended.
It's nice to see that after a year MFP still has people who jump the gun & ride high horses.
Dear, you are 19 years old. You are not an expert. I congratulate you on your weight loss; that is no easy feat. It took a lot of effort and insight on your part, and for that, I applaud you.
Just remember that what is true or what works for you is NOT necessarily true for others. I notice you didn't quote or argue with the part of my post that said that food does actually act as a drug for some people, and therefore as an addiction, cannot be controlled with will power alone. You believe that self-knowledge and will power to eat in moderation should be enough for everyone, because they worked for you. That is incorrect.
Telling someone that their addiction is just an excuse most certainly IS shaming, regardless of your intentions. Would you tell an alcoholic that their addiction is just an excuse, and that they should be able to suck it up and have just one drink?
Some of us HAVE to completely refrain from eating certain foods. Period. We do what works for us. You do what works for you. We all lose weight. Yay!
Go back, I posted twice & seems you only saw the accidental post before I had done my proof read & edit.
I said "Being a binge eater, alcoholic, addict of anything, is something you can overcome, you just have to stop making excuses & work at it. "
Addictions cannot be overcome without willpower & over coming them is ENTIRELY willpower, maybe with help & a little push along the way (I never said on your own, help isn't a bad thing but you have to give your all!), but it is all your own willpower to not eat those foods, to not drink that drink, to not take those drugs.
I never said their addiction was an excuse, I said saying you don't understand moderation is an excuse, and it is, because if you say things like that you are going to believe it & end up trapped in your addiction.
I'm sure you're not as much as an expert as you're making yourself out to be either!
Do you know anything at all about ADDICTION?0 -
I understand you are frustrated but not everyone is as tough mentally as you are. Maybe eventually they will learn that one cheat isn't going to ruin their entire day or sabotage weight loss. That's not the place they are at now. So why make them feel bad about it? Why not offer a positive viewpoint or share you experience in overcoming these beliefs? Or maybe just don't read those posts if they bother you so much.
Food addiction is a very real thing. Whether it is food addiction or not, your message can be very discouraging. People generally reach out on message boards because they need help or support and it may be hard for a lot of people to do that. Is it worth possibly discouraging someone from reaching out and asking for help just to be able to vent publicly?0 -
Question....Does it still count as calories when snorted?0
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I hear you.
For me, it's a choice not to keep some things in the house because I know it's a weakness for me (like ice cream). I don't avoid it like the plague, and if I decide I really want some I'll go and get a cone or maybe a pint. It's all a learning process and doing what works for you.0 -
According to OP, it all boils down to "will power".... wow....
Mmm..I was mostly trying to make the point that our mind is very strong. Saying "I can't control myself around sweets" is a great way to convince yourself you can't control yourself around sweets. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also, to forgive yourself for mistakes. I binged the other night. I am not a worthless fat loser, I am someone who made a decision that they later regretted. I thought about it, and then moved on. I just want people to be nicer to themselves really.
:flowerforyou:
Our mind is definitely powerful. I agree, that we shouldn't kill ourselves at the gym for eating a cookie. And we should forgive ourselves for the occasional binge that is bound to happen. We should be nice to ourselves and realize we are only human. Mistakes happen, binges happen.
I get what you are saying. When those mistakes and binges happen, some people beat themselves up about it. You are telling them not to.
It's easier said than done (as I'm sure you know). Some people aren't ready to forgive themselves for it, but they will get there. I just recently started arriving to that idea after 2 years of trying to "diet". 40 lbs lost and I still hate myself for binges. But now, I just track it and keep going. I can do better the next day. Binges happen. I won't gain those 40 lbs from that one binge.
I guess some people think that with the addiction to food that they have, having their trigger foods around doesn't help them. And when you say "use willpower" it's taken as "get over yourself and just say no". I know you don't mean it that way. I think you meant to say it takes a while but eventually you get to a point when binging on the trigger foods becomes a decision instead of a compulsion. And that's when you learn moderation with those trigger foods.
I have moderation with SOME of my trigger foods. But not all of them. So I still can't have certain foods in the house.
We are all a work in progress. We are all here to better ourselves.
I like Tina
I like Tina too! we all need more compassion for ourselves and others...0 -
According to OP, it all boils down to "will power".... wow....
Umm. It does. Every food craving can be controlled with enough discipline. You think your craving and urges are bad? Go speak with a professional bodybuilder or fitness model right before a show. They have it MUCH worse and they best of them never stray from their course.
You're right... But I'm gonna guess that the best of them also don't have a dozen chocolate cup cakes in their fridge when prepping for competitions either. Practicing my will power at the store when I decide how much of what I can handle in my pantry/fridge/immediate vicinity based on how much resolve I'm feeling is NOT lazy. It's a sign of knowing my own limits and being able to manipulate my environment to work in my favor.0
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