Daily protein too high on MFP?
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My follow up question, which you did not answer was:
Ahhh...back to form with the insults!
You did not answer my question.
i answered your first question. you answer my question. notice you dodged it.
No you did not answer it at all.
sorry you feel that way.
you asked whether i think someone who loses weight is healthier and i said yes, just not AS healthy as someone who does it the right now.
pretty sure that's an answer.
Also, where are your sources that athletes are at just as high a risk for heart disease as anyone else unless they eat correctly?
cholesterol has very little to do with weight, except that someone who is heavy tends to eat more of it as a byproduct of eating too much in general.
an athlete who is in top physical form, but eats tons of artery clogging foods, is still at a higher risk for heart disease regardless of being considered "healthy" by folks like you.
Please do not tell me (incorrectly) what or who I consider to be healthy.
And, that was not the statement you made. You said that an athlete who eats 'unhealthily' was just as likely to be at risk of heart disease as a non-athlete who eats 'unhealthily'.thus my comment about athletes who are perceived as "healthy" but are at just as high a risk of heart disease as anyone else, unless they eat correctly.
And I am still waiting for that source!
I got it from your profile.
IIFYM!
What has that got to do with anything? You obviously do NOT understand IIFYM, which has been very obvious from prior threads.
oh, and still waiting!0 -
Lol engine 2 diet site, confirmation bias much?
yeah you're right... i should really cite studies that don't support my position...
can you find one for me? that plant-based diets don't reduce risk and/or reverse heart disease?
The burden of proof is on the claim maker
you claimed that my sources weren't accurate. prove it.
lolz - that is not the way it works at all.
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof0 -
Lol engine 2 diet site, confirmation bias much?
yeah you're right... i should really cite studies that don't support my position...
can you find one for me? that plant-based diets don't reduce risk and/or reverse heart disease?
The burden of proof is on the claim maker
you claimed that my sources weren't accurate. prove it.
lolz - that is not the way it works at all.
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
weird, cuz here I was thinking I listed sources!
he just didn't LIKE my sources, which then puts the ball in his court to tell me why my sources are incorrect/inadequate.0 -
Lol engine 2 diet site, confirmation bias much?
yeah you're right... i should really cite studies that don't support my position...
can you find one for me? that plant-based diets don't reduce risk and/or reverse heart disease?
The burden of proof is on the claim maker
you claimed that my sources weren't accurate. prove it.
lolz - that is not the way it works at all.
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
weird, cuz here I was thinking I listed sources!
he just didn't LIKE my sources, which then puts the ball in his court to tell me why my sources are incorrect/inadequate.
No, because sources are supposed to actually support your argument.0 -
Lol engine 2 diet site, confirmation bias much?
yeah you're right... i should really cite studies that don't support my position...
can you find one for me? that plant-based diets don't reduce risk and/or reverse heart disease?
The burden of proof is on the claim maker
you claimed that my sources weren't accurate. prove it.
lolz - that is not the way it works at all.
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
weird, cuz here I was thinking I listed sources!
he just didn't LIKE my sources, which then puts the ball in his court to tell me why my sources are incorrect/inadequate.
No, because sources are supposed to actually support your argument.
ah. I see... can you explain how my sources didn't support the argument? I must be missing that too.0 -
I think it may have something to do with the fact that he's only 66 years old and still SHOULD be alive...why is Bill Clinton alive today? He's a vegan. Doncha think he might have access to the very best information out there? If the science supported higher levels of protein, the dozens and dozens of doctors and scientists who support the China Study wouldn't do so. Or am I wrong about that?
you realize he had a massive heart attack right? and eating a plant-based diet has been proven to reverse heart disease.
OR maybe just dieting in general would do that.
lol not at all true. you can be on a "diet" and eat tons of artery clogging foods. just ask the ketogenic fans on the boards. (though they'll scream that cholesterol doesn't clog arteries)
So, losing weight does not improve health markers?
how many athletes dying of heart attacks do I need to list to prove that being a "healthy" weight =/= actual health
You did not answer the question...as usual.
my bad.
losing weight. it obviously makes you healthier, but not AS healthy as you could be if you did it eating real foods. thus my comment about athletes who are perceived as "healthy" but are at just as high a risk of heart disease as anyone else, unless they eat correctly.
So vegetarians don't die from heart disease? If it's been "proven" to reverse it according to you, then we shouldn't see any die from it, correct?
yaaaay we've reached the point where y'all are just being intentionally obtuse!
lol that isn't according to me. all sorts of resources for you here. the second link is a conglomeration of a large number of other sources.
http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/plant-based-diet-for-heart-health
http://engine2diet.com/resources-and-research/prevent-and-revearse-heart-disease/
From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/heartdiseasesprevention.html
Heart disease is the leading cause of the death in the U.S. Over one quarter of all deaths are from heart disease. It is also a major cause of disability. The risk of heart disease increases as you age. You have a greater risk of heart disease if you are a man over age 45 or a woman over age 55. You also are at greater risk if you have a close family member who had heart disease at an early age.
Fortunately, there are many things you can do reduce your chances of getting heart disease. You should
Know your blood pressure and keep it under control
Exercise regularly
Don't smoke
Get tested for diabetes and if you have it, keep it under control
Know your cholesterol and triglyceride levels and keep them under control
Eat a lot of fruits and vegetables
Maintain a healthy weight
From http://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/what_you_can_do.htm
Ways to reduce your risk of heart disease:
Eat a healthy diet. Choosing healthful meal and snack options can help you avoid heart disease and its complications. Be sure to eat plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables.
Eating foods low in saturated fat and cholesterol and high in fiber can help prevent high blood cholesterol. Limiting salt or sodium in your diet can also lower your blood pressure.
Maintain a healthy weight. Being overweight or obese can increase your risk for heart disease. To determine whether your weight is in a healthy range, doctors often calculate a number called the body mass index (BMI). Doctors sometimes also use waist and hip measurements to measure a person's excess body fat.
Exercise regularly. Physical activity can help you maintain a healthy weight and lower cholesterol and blood pressure. The Surgeon General recommends that adults should engage in moderate-intensity exercise for at least 30 minutes on most days of the week.
Don't smoke. Cigarette smoking greatly increases your risk for heart disease. So, if you don't smoke, don't start. If you do smoke, quitting will lower your risk for heart disease. Your doctor can suggest ways to help you quit.
Limit alcohol use. Avoid drinking too much alcohol, which causes high blood pressure.
I don't see meat or protein mentioned anywhere in either of them - I do see weight though.
lol I do happen to see "eat lots of fruits and veggies" and "avoid foods with saturated fat and high sodium"
So? That is not is what is being discussed here.0 -
Why is anyone bothering responding to this guy? I've never seen him make one post where he makes sense and yet people keep letting him bait them.
I've never really been 100% sure he is a troll until I saw his - Bill Clinton is alive therefore protein is bad - comment.
We can see from his profile pic what the effects of low protein are :ohwell: - that is enough argument for me to keep on with 1-1.5g/lb LBM.
lol if you saw my before's you'd think differently. i'm genetically skinny, crazy high metabolism. for me to put on weight/muscle i need to eat a TON of food.
regardless, my views on health and food are actually incredibly mainstream, but for some reason this board is full of ketogenic disciples, fad diets, and everyone trying to lose weight the fastest they possibly can regardless of health. you don't wanna read my posts, then hit ignore. Anvil does and it works great.
Very funny. Neither Sara nor myself nor, I imagine, the majority of the people here are into any fad diet, ketogenic or whatever. My ersonal weight loss is approximately a kilo a month at most because I am interested in fitness and not weight-loss I am also interested in body composition. I think that is rather weak of you to try to discredit us via this type of personal attack, it just doesn't hold water.
Fallacy of appeal to numbers.
Red herring fallacy.
Try to stick to the subject - please.0 -
Sara vs Coach
0 -
Sara vs Coach
I've got Coach for $100. Not because he's right, but because he's the most tenacious doesn't-care-if-he's-right-gonna-argue-anyway person there is on the internet.
Eventually Sara is gonna go home and log off....or get bored.0 -
Sara vs Coach
I've got Coach for $100. Not because he's right, but because he's the most tenacious doesn't-care-if-he's-right-gonna-argue-anyway person there is on the internet.
Eventually Sara is gonna go home and log off....or get bored.
ROFLMAO!
Sara is so extra sexy hawwwttt when she puts her foot down..just saying.0 -
Sara vs Coach
I've got Coach for $100. Not because he's right, but because he's the most tenacious doesn't-care-if-he's-right-gonna-argue-anyway person there is on the internet.
Eventually Sara is gonna go home and log off....or get bored.
Kind of reminds me of the old saying to never argue with a fool. They will only pull you down to thier level and beat you with experience.0 -
Why is anyone bothering responding to this guy? I've never seen him make one post where he makes sense and yet people keep letting him bait them.
I've never really been 100% sure he is a troll until I saw his - Bill Clinton is alive therefore protein is bad - comment.
We can see from his profile pic what the effects of low protein are :ohwell: - that is enough argument for me to keep on with 1-1.5g/lb LBM.
lol if you saw my before's you'd think differently. i'm genetically skinny, crazy high metabolism. for me to put on weight/muscle i need to eat a TON of food.
regardless, my views on health and food are actually incredibly mainstream, but for some reason this board is full of ketogenic disciples, fad diets, and everyone trying to lose weight the fastest they possibly can regardless of health. you don't wanna read my posts, then hit ignore. Anvil does and it works great.
Very funny. Neither Sara nor myself nor, I imagine, the majority of the people here are into any fad diet, ketogenic or whatever. My ersonal weight loss is approximately a kilo a month at most because I am interested in fitness and not weight-loss I am also interested in body composition. I think that is rather weak of you to try to discredit us via this type of personal attack, it just doesn't hold water.
Fallacy of appeal to numbers.
Red herring fallacy.
Try to stick to the subject - please.
interesting - why did you feel like I was attacking you if you don't prescribe to ketogenic diets, fad diets, and losing weight as quickly as possible? ya know... since those are the people I was referring to... and you claim not to be among them.0 -
Sara vs Coach
I've got Coach for $100. Not because he's right, but because he's the most tenacious doesn't-care-if-he's-right-gonna-argue-anyway person there is on the internet.
Eventually Sara is gonna go home and log off....or get bored.
thanks dude!0 -
I think it may have something to do with the fact that he's only 66 years old and still SHOULD be alive...why is Bill Clinton alive today? He's a vegan. Doncha think he might have access to the very best information out there? If the science supported higher levels of protein, the dozens and dozens of doctors and scientists who support the China Study wouldn't do so. Or am I wrong about that?
you realize he had a massive heart attack right? and eating a plant-based diet has been proven to reverse heart disease.
OR maybe just dieting in general would do that.
lol not at all true. you can be on a "diet" and eat tons of artery clogging foods. just ask the ketogenic fans on the boards. (though they'll scream that cholesterol doesn't clog arteries)
So, losing weight does not improve health markers?
how many athletes dying of heart attacks do I need to list to prove that being a "healthy" weight =/= actual health
You did not answer the question...as usual.
my bad.
losing weight. it obviously makes you healthier, but not AS healthy as you could be if you did it eating real foods. thus my comment about athletes who are perceived as "healthy" but are at just as high a risk of heart disease as anyone else, unless they eat correctly.
So vegetarians don't die from heart disease? If it's been "proven" to reverse it according to you, then we shouldn't see any die from it, correct?
yaaaay we've reached the point where y'all are just being intentionally obtuse!
lol that isn't according to me. all sorts of resources for you here. the second link is a conglomeration of a large number of other sources.
http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/plant-based-diet-for-heart-health
http://engine2diet.com/resources-and-research/prevent-and-revearse-heart-disease/
From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/heartdiseasesprevention.html
Heart disease is the leading cause of the death in the U.S. Over one quarter of all deaths are from heart disease. It is also a major cause of disability. The risk of heart disease increases as you age. You have a greater risk of heart disease if you are a man over age 45 or a woman over age 55. You also are at greater risk if you have a close family member who had heart disease at an early age.
Fortunately, there are many things you can do reduce your chances of getting heart disease. You should
Know your blood pressure and keep it under control
Exercise regularly
Don't smoke
Get tested for diabetes and if you have it, keep it under control
Know your cholesterol and triglyceride levels and keep them under control
Eat a lot of fruits and vegetables
Maintain a healthy weight
From http://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/what_you_can_do.htm
Ways to reduce your risk of heart disease:
Eat a healthy diet. Choosing healthful meal and snack options can help you avoid heart disease and its complications. Be sure to eat plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables.
Eating foods low in saturated fat and cholesterol and high in fiber can help prevent high blood cholesterol. Limiting salt or sodium in your diet can also lower your blood pressure.
Maintain a healthy weight. Being overweight or obese can increase your risk for heart disease. To determine whether your weight is in a healthy range, doctors often calculate a number called the body mass index (BMI). Doctors sometimes also use waist and hip measurements to measure a person's excess body fat.
Exercise regularly. Physical activity can help you maintain a healthy weight and lower cholesterol and blood pressure. The Surgeon General recommends that adults should engage in moderate-intensity exercise for at least 30 minutes on most days of the week.
Don't smoke. Cigarette smoking greatly increases your risk for heart disease. So, if you don't smoke, don't start. If you do smoke, quitting will lower your risk for heart disease. Your doctor can suggest ways to help you quit.
Limit alcohol use. Avoid drinking too much alcohol, which causes high blood pressure.
I don't see meat or protein mentioned anywhere in either of them - I do see weight though.
lol I do happen to see "eat lots of fruits and veggies" and "avoid foods with saturated fat and high sodium"
So? That is not is what is being discussed here.
(plant based diets helping prevent/reverse heart disease is certainly being discussed here. also what kind of food is often relatively high in saturated fat and sodium in the typical american diet?)0 -
do you believe that a person who eats whatever they want (fast food, junk food, processed foods etc) but stays within their macro goals is EQUALLY as healthy (ie: will have equally good vitals) as someone who stays within their macro limit but only eats whole foods, lots of fruits and veggies, whole grains, and avoids processed foods?
I know this argument has been had before, but I want your straight forward, no extra BS answer.
OK - I'll finally bite. I'm one of the former. My bloodwork last time I had a full physical with my doctor (June 2012)? Textbook - his word, not mine. My blood pressure a couple of weeks ago, during a routine checkup? 110 over 68. No aches or pains. So, to answer your question directly - YES.
eta: I actually typed my blood pressure incorrectly. It was better than I had typed. BTW, I'm a 40yo male.0 -
do you believe that a person who eats whatever they want (fast food, junk food, processed foods etc) but stays within their macro goals is EQUALLY as healthy (ie: will have equally good vitals) as someone who stays within their macro limit but only eats whole foods, lots of fruits and veggies, whole grains, and avoids processed foods?
I know this argument has been had before, but I want your straight forward, no extra BS answer.
OK - I'll finally bite. I'm one of the former. My bloodwork last time I had a full physical with my doctor (June 2012)? Textbook - his word, not mine. My blood pressure a couple of weeks ago, during a routine checkup? 110 over 80. No aches or pains. So, to answer you question directly - YES.
... what the heck does textbook mean? textbook can literally mean either good OR bad. gimme the numbers, because I'm willing to bet my LDL is lower than every IIFYM subscriber on this board.0 -
I think it may have something to do with the fact that he's only 66 years old and still SHOULD be alive...why is Bill Clinton alive today? He's a vegan. Doncha think he might have access to the very best information out there? If the science supported higher levels of protein, the dozens and dozens of doctors and scientists who support the China Study wouldn't do so. Or am I wrong about that?
you realize he had a massive heart attack right? and eating a plant-based diet has been proven to reverse heart disease.
OR maybe just dieting in general would do that.
lol not at all true. you can be on a "diet" and eat tons of artery clogging foods. just ask the ketogenic fans on the boards. (though they'll scream that cholesterol doesn't clog arteries)
So, losing weight does not improve health markers?
how many athletes dying of heart attacks do I need to list to prove that being a "healthy" weight =/= actual health
You did not answer the question...as usual.
my bad.
losing weight. it obviously makes you healthier, but not AS healthy as you could be if you did it eating real foods. thus my comment about athletes who are perceived as "healthy" but are at just as high a risk of heart disease as anyone else, unless they eat correctly.
So vegetarians don't die from heart disease? If it's been "proven" to reverse it according to you, then we shouldn't see any die from it, correct?
yaaaay we've reached the point where y'all are just being intentionally obtuse!
lol that isn't according to me. all sorts of resources for you here. the second link is a conglomeration of a large number of other sources.
http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/plant-based-diet-for-heart-health
http://engine2diet.com/resources-and-research/prevent-and-revearse-heart-disease/
From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/heartdiseasesprevention.html
Heart disease is the leading cause of the death in the U.S. Over one quarter of all deaths are from heart disease. It is also a major cause of disability. The risk of heart disease increases as you age. You have a greater risk of heart disease if you are a man over age 45 or a woman over age 55. You also are at greater risk if you have a close family member who had heart disease at an early age.
Fortunately, there are many things you can do reduce your chances of getting heart disease. You should
Know your blood pressure and keep it under control
Exercise regularly
Don't smoke
Get tested for diabetes and if you have it, keep it under control
Know your cholesterol and triglyceride levels and keep them under control
Eat a lot of fruits and vegetables
Maintain a healthy weight
From http://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/what_you_can_do.htm
Ways to reduce your risk of heart disease:
Eat a healthy diet. Choosing healthful meal and snack options can help you avoid heart disease and its complications. Be sure to eat plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables.
Eating foods low in saturated fat and cholesterol and high in fiber can help prevent high blood cholesterol. Limiting salt or sodium in your diet can also lower your blood pressure.
Maintain a healthy weight. Being overweight or obese can increase your risk for heart disease. To determine whether your weight is in a healthy range, doctors often calculate a number called the body mass index (BMI). Doctors sometimes also use waist and hip measurements to measure a person's excess body fat.
Exercise regularly. Physical activity can help you maintain a healthy weight and lower cholesterol and blood pressure. The Surgeon General recommends that adults should engage in moderate-intensity exercise for at least 30 minutes on most days of the week.
Don't smoke. Cigarette smoking greatly increases your risk for heart disease. So, if you don't smoke, don't start. If you do smoke, quitting will lower your risk for heart disease. Your doctor can suggest ways to help you quit.
Limit alcohol use. Avoid drinking too much alcohol, which causes high blood pressure.
I don't see meat or protein mentioned anywhere in either of them - I do see weight though.
lol I do happen to see "eat lots of fruits and veggies" and "avoid foods with saturated fat and high sodium"
So? That is not is what is being discussed here.
(plant based diets helping prevent/reverse heart disease is certainly being discussed here. also what kind of food is often relatively high in saturated fat and sodium in the typical american diet?)
Funny they did not mention that 'kind of food' then isn't it?0 -
do you believe that a person who eats whatever they want (fast food, junk food, processed foods etc) but stays within their macro goals is EQUALLY as healthy (ie: will have equally good vitals) as someone who stays within their macro limit but only eats whole foods, lots of fruits and veggies, whole grains, and avoids processed foods?
I know this argument has been had before, but I want your straight forward, no extra BS answer.
OK - I'll finally bite. I'm one of the former. My bloodwork last time I had a full physical with my doctor (June 2012)? Textbook - his word, not mine. My blood pressure a couple of weeks ago, during a routine checkup? 110 over 80. No aches or pains. So, to answer you question directly - YES.
... what the heck does textbook mean? textbook can literally mean either good OR bad. gimme the numbers, because I'm willing to bet my LDL is lower than every IIFYM subscriber on this board.
O.o
And the arrogant I'm better than everyone else stomp stomp stomp tone to this thread...has reached a new high...0 -
Sara vs Coach
I've got Coach for $100. Not because he's right, but because he's the most tenacious doesn't-care-if-he's-right-gonna-argue-anyway person there is on the internet.
Eventually Sara is gonna go home and log off....or get bored.
ROFLMAO!
Sara is so extra sexy hawwwttt when she puts her foot down..just saying.
How YOU doin'? :bigsmile:0 -
do you believe that a person who eats whatever they want (fast food, junk food, processed foods etc) but stays within their macro goals is EQUALLY as healthy (ie: will have equally good vitals) as someone who stays within their macro limit but only eats whole foods, lots of fruits and veggies, whole grains, and avoids processed foods?
I know this argument has been had before, but I want your straight forward, no extra BS answer.
OK - I'll finally bite. I'm one of the former. My bloodwork last time I had a full physical with my doctor (June 2012)? Textbook - his word, not mine. My blood pressure a couple of weeks ago, during a routine checkup? 110 over 80. No aches or pains. So, to answer you question directly - YES.
... what the heck does textbook mean? textbook can literally mean either good OR bad. gimme the numbers, because I'm willing to bet my LDL is lower than every IIFYM subscriber on this board.
O.o
And the arrogant I'm better than everyone else stomp stomp stomp tone to this thread...has reached a new high...
It must come with the elite territory!0
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