For Vegans / Vegetarians only.

jjrichard83

As many of you know, the sheer ignorance of the general population when it comes to talking about a vegan / plant based diet is very misinformed. Most will say we are designed to be Omnivores (which is what our current diet suggests). Those that say we are carnivores just are too far gone to help anyway.

It's about what our bodies are designed for, not what we ACTUALLY eat. I think most will agree that humans as a whole do not eat ANYWHERE near what we were designed for considering the amount of processed foods being consumed.

I feel that I'm being trolled by people, but have to remember the amount of ignorance out there...

Just because the sports car CAN take octane 89, doesn't mean it wouldn't run better on octane 94. So yes, we CAN live and survive on an Omnivore diet, but that was never the argument. The argument has always been: "what is our natural diet as a species."

Without a shadow of a doubt, our bodies are not designed for meat, just as cats & dogs bodies are not designed for grains (which is why cats & dogs are the ONLY other two species (other than humans) who are overweight. Most of their food contains grains as fillers- which they CAN eat, but causes problems for them long term).

Here is a quote by a well known vegetarian:
"Nothing will benefit health or increase chances of survival on earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
- Albert Einstein

Living on a vegetarian diet didn't seem to hurt the most famous brain in the world.

Here is a list I've found comparing Carnivores, Omnivores & Humans. It seems to be pretty straight fwd and accurate. A ***** slap in the face of those who "believe" or "think" or "well thats my opinion" about us being omnivore. This is like the God vs. Atheist argument, too many people are too far invested to change their mind once this "new" evidence to them is presented. Human nature. I am a meat eater who was in search for the truth, which is why I am changing my diet now that I found the answer. It is not my opinion, it is science and biology. I believe that both those things trumps any of our "belief or opinion" when it comes to this.

From "The Comparative Anatomy of Eating", by Milton R. Mills, MD

Facial Muscles
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HUMAN: Well-developed

Jaw Type
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle

Jaw Joint Location
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars

Jaw Motion
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back

Major Jaw Muscles
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids

Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
CARNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
OMNIVORE: Large
HUMAN: Small

Teeth: Incisors
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped

Teeth: Canines
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted

Teeth: Molars
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps

Chewing
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary

Saliva
CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes

Stomach Type
CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple

Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach

Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract

Length of Small Intestine
CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length

Colon
CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated

Liver
CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A

Kidney
CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine

Nails
CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails

Someone may have an "opinion" on one of these things, but to disprove most or all is impossible. This should be the KNOCK OUT PUNCH for those who believe we are meant to eat one way or another, but won't be. Like I said many times before, people are ignorant and very few actually take the time to research things that they don't agree on- which makes it pointless to argue with close minded people. No one thinks they are close minded, and in thinking someone else is, you could be called that yourself - so proceed with caution. I have promised myself to not even comment to those who write something where they obviously didn't do deep research on the subject. Too many opinions and not enough solid evidence here. Like another post about the "saliva from a dog".

The info above is to allow vegetarians and vegans to know what they already know! Eating like that makes you feel better and much more "alive". So share that info with people looking to make the switch, not people who are just debating the meat diet. Can't change their mind- it's too ingrained

I wrote that title so we all know when a troll comes in - a non vegan/vegetarian shouldn't have even opened this thread if they were not interested in becoming or learning about it. & yes I'm prepared for the heat from people saying "I don't like your tone". Truth hurts everyone one time or another.

rocket_ace

I hear ya man - I've just stopped talking about it on the threads (or in public) except w/ other veg-heads.....many meat eaters try to attack you like all get out.

jjrichard83

lol yeah, I think I'll stop getting involved in those topics too. They get heated quickly

lovetobethin86

All I have to say is....................HELL YAH!!

redraidergirl2009

I am vegan and frankly I don't get into the stupid "oh we were design to eat this, this, and this, but not that." Because who cares? How revelant is it? Did ancient man drink almond milk? Did he buy potato chips? How natural are these things?

All I can say people need to worry about their own bodies when it comes to what they are eating. I cannot eat dairy without bad reactions so I don't. Dairy also was a nice culprit to me being pudgey since I ate a high dairy diet for along time before I realized it was making me sick. I thought it was "healthy" to eat dairy, like we are all told. Obviously, it wasn't for me.

What irritates me is when vegetarians and vegans post here asking for help in weight loss and some idiots think they need to post a picture of a dead animal or tell them to "just eat meat" like it will solve all their problems or make stupid jokes unprovoked. Grow the Heck up.

Mrs_Bones

Thank-you for that! I am so sick and tired of people who are completely uneducated trying to argue with me about my lifestyle. Live and let live! I don't nag omnivores to death about why they should convert to veganism so why they feel it'll do any good trying to nag me into eating meat, I'll never know!

babydiego87

Look -- eat all the corpse you like, it's not for me. Ever since I was a kid I have hated meat, it's as natural for me as breathing air. It's not natural for you, OK I don't care but don't tell me I'm wrong when it feels right to ME.

I couldn't care less what other people eat, I don't know why it's such a big deal to people..

Gallowmere1984

One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.

So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.

So, why?

Maxibris

While you may be correct, there is a flaw to your logic. You mention that cats and dogs along with humans are overweight because what they are eating is not what they are meant to be eating, this is grossly incorrect.

Animals (and I include us Homo sapiens in this) become overweight when the activity level is lower than the calories consumed. By your logic everyone who eats meat would be overweight and no domestic cats or dogs would be at a healthy weight.

Again, while you may be right about vegan and vegetarian diets from an evolutionary or health point of view, this point probably should have been left out of the post because it is not factual.

Edit: now that I think about it, what was the point of this thread? If you wanted to keep meat-eaters out with the title and you are not telling any vegan/vegetarians anything new, then what was the point in the first place?

girlinahat

A couple of questions - this thread is titled 'for vegans and vegetarians only' and yet reads like a manifesto for a plant-based diet. Who are you preaching to? The converted?

Also, your opening lines are pretty generalised and quite rude. Most of us omnivores are actually quite happy to let anyone eat what they like. I, along with thousands of others, do NOT post 'eat meat' photos inappropriately.

I'm not going to bother to get into the anatomy argument, but there is this little thing called evolution you might want to research a bit more about. It's what makes humans, well, human, as opposed to homo erectus or any other early form of our species.

Good luck with your fitness goals.

MorgueBabe

One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.

So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.

So, why?

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.490645960974012.111702.476182312420377&type=3

I don't think they're inferior at all.

Yogi_Carl

I think it was Ghandi who said a society should be judged on how it treats it's animals.

When I look at how animals are treated in meat, dairy and egg production I cannot remain a part of the animal industry - whether I have evolved to eat meat and partake of eggs and milk or not.

Gallowmere1984

One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.

So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.

So, why?

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.490645960974012.111702.476182312420377&type=3

I don't think they're inferior at all.

And how many of them are world record holders in....anything? My educated guess is none. How can I make this guess? Because world records are what I study, especially those in strength sports. If you'd like, I can provide you a HUGE amount of links to records databases, as well as diet samples for all of said record holders.

I am not arguing some arbitrary garbage like "Well, they don't look like...(insert random noun here)", I am talking about actual performance.

Yogi_Carl

One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.

So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.

So, why?

How many of those strength records are held by people on steroids?

Are vegans less likely to take steroids and therefore unlikely to hold such records?

I don't know, I just thought I would put it out there.

Gallowmere1984

One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.

So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.

So, why?

How many of those strength records are held by people on steroids?

Are vegans less likely to take steroids and therefore unlikely to hold such records?

I don't know, I just thought I would put it out there.

If you'd like, I can throw the drug tested records out there as well.

MorgueBabe

Dalip Singh
Varinder Singh
are both pretty accomplished.

skinnybitcheslovecats

http://veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bios

Gallowmere1984

Apparently neither of you comprehend English very well. 'Accomplished' does not equal 'the very best'. My point was that if this is the ideal way for humans to eat, Vegans should be destroying the records set by meat eaters. They aren't. Why?

You are all just dodging my question, not answering it in any way.

Also...linking me bodybuilders when I mention strength? Is that supposed to be a joke?

skinnybitcheslovecats

Derek Tresize
Robert Cheeke
Ed Bauer
Terre Washington
Amanda Wheeler
Patrick Reiners

ALL successful vegan body builders!

Gallowmere1984

Bodybuilding is not a strength sport....in any way make shape or form. Ronnie Coleman is one of the most accomplished bodybuilders in the world, but he couldn't touch any powerlifters in his weight class, and he is among the strongest of them.

ryry_

Sorry no disrepect..I honestly don't care what you eat...I actually read this topic because a few of my good friends are moving towards being vegetarians and I thought I would check it out as my diet has been mostly lacto ovo vegetarian anyway. But google searching does not create ironclad truth. Look i can do it too!

http://rense.com/general20/meant.htm

This was the first result of thousands titled "Humans are meant to be Omnivores".

Shocker, it contains different information and some of the same with different interpretation.

Some humans can't digest milk very well? So what? Some humans are allergic to Peanut Butter. Guess humans aren't supposed to eat nuts. People have food allergies to milk, eggs, fruit, veggies, etc. Guess we aren't meant to eat anything at all.

And cats and dogs are overweight like humans because they eat grains? Are you serious? You don't think it's because like humans cats and dogs sit in the house on their A$% all day?

Anyway, there are many good and altruistic reasons to choose this path (moral conscience, abuse of animals in the food industry, etc.). But please, if you are going to be a vegetarian or a vegan, please do it for some other reason other than this premis that humans were meant to and you are just trying to follow the evolutionary line.

assilembob

Thank you.

I've been vegetarian most of my life, completely since 15. I've been vegan since 21. I'm 32. I can't eat corpse. I can't eat hormones. I don't see the draw. I tire of the "meat is tasty" and "I can't live without cheese" bs, especially when it's directed at me, posted on my FB page or on my food journal here. That's an invasion. I don't get on people's pages and tell them that the steak they're eating is nasty. I don't want to hear about how nasty they feel my tofu is.

Admiral_Derp

While you may be correct, there is a flaw to your logic. You mention that cats and dogs along with humans are overweight because what they are eating is not what they are meant to be eating, this is grossly incorrect.

Animals (and I include us Homo sapiens in this) become overweight when the activity level is lower than the calories consumed. By your logic everyone who eats meat would be overweight and no domestic cats or dogs would be at a healthy weight.

Again, while you may be right about vegan and vegetarian diets from an evolutionary or health point of view, this point probably should have been left out of the post because it is not factual.

Edit: now that I think about it, what was the point of this thread? If you wanted to keep meat-eaters out with the title and you are not telling any vegan/vegetarians anything new, then what was the point in the first place?

It's like church...it's more fun for the preacher if it's a hot crowd full of amens.

skinnybitcheslovecats

Strength World Record Holder John Brookfield Power

Germany's Strongest Man titleholder Patrik Baboumian (pictured at left), ultramarathoner Scott Jurek, endurance racer Paul Chetirkin, and Olympic track champion Carl Lewis prove the aforesaid claims are nothing but mindless prejudices and outright lies.

GERMANY'S STRONGEST MAN IS WHAT? OH RIGHT, VEGAN!

skinnybitcheslovecats

Many other noteworthy veg athletes have proven that broccoli is mightier than meat, too. Brendan Brazier (professional Ironman triathlete and author of three books on vegan nutrition and vegan fitness training for athletes), mixed martial artist James Wilks, Desmond Howard (NCAAF Heisman Trophy winner), John Salley (4 NBA titles), Bill Walton (2 NBA titles), Robert Parish (3 NBA titles, 21-year veteran), Cynthia Cooper (2 NCAA titles, 4 WNBA titles), Andreas Cahling (1980 Mr. International bodybuilding champion), Bill Pearl (4-time Mr. Universe), Bill Mannetti (powerlifting champion), Stan Price (bench-press champion), Roy Hilligenn (1951 Mr. America), Joel Kirkilis (bodybuilder), Keith Holmes (world middleweight boxing champion), Dom Repta (ultramarathoner who ran 100 miles in 20 hours), Serena Williams (14 Tennis Grand Slam Titles), Martina Navratilova (18 Tennis Grand Slam Titles), Al Oerter (4-time Olympic gold medalist discus thrower), Andy Lally (NASCAR, Grand Am Rolex Series, Streetluge), Leilani Münter (race car driver), Pam Boteler (sprint canoeist who won medals at PanAm and U.S championships competing against men!), Chris Campbell (1981 wrestling world gold medalist), Neil Whyte (Swiss Ball world record holder) and Killer Kowalski (entertainment wrestler). Be sure to check out the websites OrganicAthlete and Great Vegan Athletes as well.

That's right.

Gallowmere1984

Again, I said 'World'. Germany does not equal world in any way. That guy's lifts aren't even close to the world record for a weight class below him. Try again.

ryry_

I would also get rid of the house, the car, the lap top, the air conditioning, etc. because we humans were clearly not designed for these things either.

lunnay

There was another thread a couple of hours ago where someone posted about the different "homo" species, linking brain size to the amount of meat and other animal products they consume.

It's by neandermagnon, at the end of page two, you can find it here:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/889577-vegan-therories-at-3-in-the-morning?page=2

The human body is very adaptable, as long as you're getting protein, fats, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc, from somewhere, it'll adjust. Eat what you want. Life's too short to worry if you're getting the ABSOLUTE BEST possible diet. Plenty of vegans/vegetarians who do it wrong and are lacking in something, plenty of meat eaters who overdo it too. Hell, even today there was a thread linking to a news article of how a woman was drinking 10L of Coke a day and died.

I'm also not sure what the point of this thread was. Preaching to the choir?

Gallowmere1984

Many other noteworthy veg athletes have proven that broccoli is mightier than meat, too. Brendan Brazier (professional Ironman triathlete and author of three books on vegan nutrition and vegan fitness training for athletes), mixed martial artist James Wilks, Desmond Howard (NCAAF Heisman Trophy winner), John Salley (4 NBA titles), Bill Walton (2 NBA titles), Robert Parish (3 NBA titles, 21-year veteran), Cynthia Cooper (2 NCAA titles, 4 WNBA titles), Andreas Cahling (1980 Mr. International bodybuilding champion), Bill Pearl (4-time Mr. Universe), Bill Mannetti (powerlifting champion), Stan Price (bench-press champion), Roy Hilligenn (1951 Mr. America), Joel Kirkilis (bodybuilder), Keith Holmes (world middleweight boxing champion), Dom Repta (ultramarathoner who ran 100 miles in 20 hours), Serena Williams (14 Tennis Grand Slam Titles), Martina Navratilova (18 Tennis Grand Slam Titles), Al Oerter (4-time Olympic gold medalist discus thrower), Andy Lally (NASCAR, Grand Am Rolex Series, Streetluge), Leilani Münter (race car driver), Pam Boteler (sprint canoeist who won medals at PanAm and U.S championships competing against men!), Chris Campbell (1981 wrestling world gold medalist), Neil Whyte (Swiss Ball world record holder) and Killer Kowalski (entertainment wrestler). Be sure to check out the websites OrganicAthlete and Great Vegan Athletes as well.

That's right.

Cool. Now find me some people who actually made their accomplishments WHILE they were Vegan, not beforehand.

Hbazzell

I will never go back to eating meat. There is nothing in it for me. I love creatures too much anyway.

laura328

One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.

So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.

So, why?

Athletes who are vegan/vegetarian:

Patrik Baboumian, Strongman competitor, former bodybuilder
Brendan Brazier, Triathlete
Arian Foster, NFL running back for Houston Texans
Georges Laraq, Pro hockey player
Mike Zigomanis, Pro hockey player
Robert Cheeke, body builder
Luke Cummo, martial artist
Bryan Danielson, pro wrestler
Mike Mahler, body builder
Salim Stoudamire, NBA player
Mike Tyson, pro boxer
RIcky WIlliams, running back for Miami Dolphins
Carl Lewis, Olympic track star
Joe Namath, former NFL quarterback

There are MANY more, but my hand is beginning to hurt typing all the names of all these tremendous athletes.
What else ya got?