For Vegans / Vegetarians only.
Replies
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He recently became veganOne question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
Wrong. The strongest man of Germany is a vegan!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrik_Baboumian
Already been hit and knocked down. German strength record does not in any way equal world record. As I said before, this guy's lifts are actually lower than the world records for an entire weight class below him. Try again.
He holds a world record...
He also supports PETA, which anyone, vegan or not, should know is a laughable charity which needlessly slaughters animals.
What on earth has his world record (the question posed) got to do with the group(s) that he supports?
He also takes steroids.0 -
Extremely biased, tin foil source. A lot of incorrect and incomplete info.
According to whom, you?
What qualifications do you have to make that assessment?
What evidence do you have to back up your assessment?
Me. Yes.
My qualifications? Really? Hhhm. I have them, but this isn't about me. But, let's say I have a few relevant science degrees. Like 3. My work experience in research and health related fields spans 20 years.
His presentation about Insulin-like growth factor 1 is incomplete, biased and a non end point, non evidence based fiction. I've covered it extensively in another post.
You'll see that here - with references. Middle of the page.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1084194-where-does-frank-medrano-get-his-protein?page=8
I think I answered your questions.
The point is that any single source of information has some bias. That site is strongly so. Get your info from many places and don't trust claims until you read the source.
I do, thank you.0 -
One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
Wrong. The strongest man of Germany is a vegan!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrik_Baboumian
Already been hit and knocked down. German strength record does not in any way equal world record. As I said before, this guy's lifts are actually lower than the world records for an entire weight class below him. Try again.
He holds a world record...
He also supports PETA, which anyone, vegan or not, should know is a laughable charity which needlessly slaughters animals.
What on earth has his world record (the question posed) got to do with the group(s) that he supports?
Nothing, it just makes him look like an *kitten*. I don't care how much you can lift, if you put your face on the adverts of PETA, you're either an idiot or an *kitten*.0 -
One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
Wrong. The strongest man of Germany is a vegan!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrik_Baboumian
Already been hit and knocked down. German strength record does not in any way equal world record. As I said before, this guy's lifts are actually lower than the world records for an entire weight class below him. Try again.
He holds a world record...
He also supports PETA, which anyone, vegan or not, should know is a laughable charity which needlessly slaughters animals.
What on earth has his world record (the question posed) got to do with the group(s) that he supports?
Nothing, it just makes him look like an *kitten*. I don't care how much you can lift, if you put your face on the adverts of PETA, you're either an idiot or an *kitten*.
Judging by the comments in this thread, it seems that one doesn't need to be involved in PETA to be either an idiot or an arsehole.0 -
Extremely biased, tin foil source. A lot of incorrect and incomplete info.
According to whom, you?
What qualifications do you have to make that assessment?
What evidence do you have to back up your assessment?
Me. Yes.
My qualifications? Really? Hhhm. I have them, but this isn't about me. But, let's say I have a few relevant science degrees. Like 3. My work experience in research and health related fields spans 20 years.
His presentation about Insulin-like growth factor 1 is incomplete, biased and a non end point, non evidence based fiction. I've covered it extensively in another post.
You'll see that here - with references. Middle of the page.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1084194-where-does-frank-medrano-get-his-protein?page=8
I think I answered your questions.
The point is that any single source of information has some bias. That site is strongly so. Get your info from many places and don't trust claims until you read the source.
I do, thank you.
And I apologize. My post - calling out the bias - certainly does come across as the usual gruff, ready to b!tch, snotty attitude we sometimes see here. I admit, I play it too. I was in a bit of a rush, saw your post and gave my opinion without supporting it.
My principle issues with any of those 1 person sites is that they tend to provide either a strong bias to personal dietary choices (you can tell the author is vegetarian) or a piecemeal look at specific issues (watermelon and pistachios for erectile dysfunction? Really?) without proving an ongoing framework for focusing on the basics. I'm very very very good at science and going down to the most profound details of research and biochemical paths which is where these sites "sell" info. Except I am challenged to believe that we will get more value for our bang from basic lifestyle changes, varied and fresh nutrition.
Plus the criticism he provides against the USDA is immflamatory and a disservice. If people followed most of the basic USDA information we'd see significant health and obesity improvements.0 -
.
Without a shadow of a doubt, our bodies are not designed for meat, just as cats & dogs bodies are not designed for grains (which is why cats & dogs are the ONLY other two species (other than humans) who are overweight. Most of their food contains grains as fillers- which they CAN eat, but causes problems for them long term).
This may be missing everybody else's point entirely, but I thought I'd point out that this is not entirely true.
Horses can be overweight, as can rabbits, mice and rats. This is usually due to a lack of exercise, admittedly.
But your comment did stand out to me.
And I am vegetarian, have been since leaving home at 18 (I'm now 51).
I don't have any problem with how other people choose to eat, your body, your choice.
:flowerforyou:0 -
Without a shadow of a doubt, our bodies are not designed for meat, just as cats & dogs bodies are not designed for grains (which is why cats & dogs are the ONLY other two species (other than humans) who are overweight. Most of their food contains grains as fillers- which they CAN eat, but causes problems for them long term).
Pretty much stopped reading here. I call BS. I used to ride horses regularly. The ones that tended towards inactivity got fat. Yes, horses that had free roam of acres of pasture - not grain-fed, no hormones, steroids, etc - and were exercised daily under saddle, though obviously not enough to compensate for the grass they were eating. Eat lots, move little, get fat. Same in all species. It's why you see it more often in domesticated species, particularly house-bound dogs and cats though it happens with fish in tanks and caged birds, too. We've taken away most of the need to move. We provide food (often more than needed), and remove most if not all predators. Grains have nothing to do with it.
Ooops, sorry, just read this one.
You said it so much better than me.
hey ho.0 -
I am 'vegan' (I put it in brackets because when I am at home I do eat eggs from a trusted source, but when I am anywhere else I only eat what a vegan would eat. I have been shouted at before for saying 'Vegan but I eat eggs'!)
This seems like a bash the meat-eaters thread (simply from a few of the posts I have read, sorry if I am incorrect). No-one will ever really know what we were 'designed to eat' since no-one was there and we have evolved since. Vegetarianism/veganism aren't necessarily the 'right' ways to eat. They are just choices. It is equally annoying for meat-eaters to say 'just eat some bacon' or whatever as it is annoying when vegetarians and vegans start pushing their beliefs on others and taking the moral high ground for not being 'murderers'0 -
One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
Wrong. The strongest man of Germany is a vegan!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrik_Baboumian
Already been hit and knocked down. German strength record does not in any way equal world record. As I said before, this guy's lifts are actually lower than the world records for an entire weight class below him. Try again.
He holds a world record...
He also supports PETA, which anyone, vegan or not, should know is a laughable charity which needlessly slaughters animals.
What on earth has his world record (the question posed) got to do with the group(s) that he supports?
Nothing, it just makes him look like an *kitten*. I don't care how much you can lift, if you put your face on the adverts of PETA, you're either an idiot or an *kitten*.
Judging by the comments in this thread, it seems that one doesn't need to be involved in PETA to be either an idiot or an arsehole.
Ohhhhh touché.0 -
I am vegan and frankly I don't get into the stupid "oh we were design to eat this, this, and this, but not that." Because who cares? How revelant is it? Did ancient man drink almond milk? Did he buy potato chips? How natural are these things?
All I can say people need to worry about their own bodies when it comes to what they are eating.
This. I'm a vegetarian. I can only decide what is right for me and my offspring. I can't decide for everyone what they should do. It's not my place.0 -
As many of you know, the sheer ignorance of the general population when it comes to talking about a vegan / plant based diet is very misinformed. Most will say we are designed to be Omnivores (which is what our current diet suggests). Those that say we are carnivores just are too far gone to help anyway.
It's about what our bodies are designed for, not what we ACTUALLY eat. I think most will agree that humans as a whole do not eat ANYWHERE near what we were designed for considering the amount of processed foods being consumed.
I feel that I'm being trolled by people, but have to remember the amount of ignorance out there...
Just because the sports car CAN take octane 89, doesn't mean it wouldn't run better on octane 94. So yes, we CAN live and survive on an Omnivore diet, but that was never the argument. The argument has always been: "what is our natural diet as a species."
Without a shadow of a doubt, our bodies are not designed for meat, just as cats & dogs bodies are not designed for grains (which is why cats & dogs are the ONLY other two species (other than humans) who are overweight. Most of their food contains grains as fillers- which they CAN eat, but causes problems for them long term).
Here is a quote by a well known vegetarian:
"Nothing will benefit health or increase chances of survival on earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
- Albert Einstein
Living on a vegetarian diet didn't seem to hurt the most famous brain in the world.
Here is a list I've found comparing Carnivores, Omnivores & Humans. It seems to be pretty straight fwd and accurate. A ***** slap in the face of those who "believe" or "think" or "well thats my opinion" about us being omnivore. This is like the God vs. Atheist argument, too many people are too far invested to change their mind once this "new" evidence to them is presented. Human nature. I am a meat eater who was in search for the truth, which is why I am changing my diet now that I found the answer. It is not my opinion, it is science and biology. I believe that both those things trumps any of our "belief or opinion" when it comes to this.
From "The Comparative Anatomy of Eating", by Milton R. Mills, MD
Facial Muscles
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HUMAN: Well-developed
Jaw Type
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle
Jaw Joint Location
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars
Jaw Motion
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Major Jaw Muscles
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
CARNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
OMNIVORE: Large
HUMAN: Small
Teeth: Incisors
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Teeth: Canines
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted
Teeth: Molars
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps
Chewing
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary
Saliva
CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Stomach Type
CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple
Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
Length of Small Intestine
CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length
Colon
CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated
Liver
CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Kidney
CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine
Nails
CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails
Someone may have an "opinion" on one of these things, but to disprove most or all is impossible. This should be the KNOCK OUT PUNCH for those who believe we are meant to eat one way or another, but won't be. Like I said many times before, people are ignorant and very few actually take the time to research things that they don't agree on- which makes it pointless to argue with close minded people. No one thinks they are close minded, and in thinking someone else is, you could be called that yourself - so proceed with caution. I have promised myself to not even comment to those who write something where they obviously didn't do deep research on the subject. Too many opinions and not enough solid evidence here. Like another post about the "saliva from a dog".
The info above is to allow vegetarians and vegans to know what they already know! Eating like that makes you feel better and much more "alive". So share that info with people looking to make the switch, not people who are just debating the meat diet. Can't change their mind- it's too ingrained
I wrote that title so we all know when a troll comes in - a non vegan/vegetarian shouldn't have even opened this thread if they were not interested in becoming or learning about it.
& yes I'm prepared for the heat from people saying "I don't like your tone". Truth hurts everyone one time or another.
Most people on here are not the general public, although if you want to post something about a divisive subject and restrict the audience to a certain group it would probably be better to make the post in a group rather than in the general forum (as per the site terms, IIRC). Most Americans can't point to their State on a map (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-shehori/poll-37-of-americans-unab_b_150933.html) but I don't assume most Americans are misinformed.
You feel you are being trolled? No, I feel like I am being trolled.
I don't generally eat Kosher meat but have probably done more research on Shechita slaughter than a Jew. Likewise Dhabiha and Muslims. Likewise pollination and farmers. Likewise radio signals and mobile phone users. Likewise first aid and injured people. Likewise the human body and humans. Likewise English legislation and English residents.
Likewise Einstein and people that mention Einstein. He possibly had autism - perhaps he found a diet that helped him control meltdowns, Google says some parents believe cutting dairy helps and others believe going vegan helps, but you don't seriously believe what he ate made him intelligent? He is dead, there is no way to know, but we do know he wasn't a vegetarian until later in life - was Einstein dumb until a year before he died? He died from a ruptured abdominal aortic aneurysm and refused surgery, it had been operated on several years before, and a low-fat diet is advised to prevent abdominal aortic aneurysms. Did Einstein follow a low-fat diet for his health? He didn't stop smoking. He was in the age group most likely to suffer such a medical condition. We don't know if he had hypertension. So, he probably wasn't that bothered with minimising his health risks and went vegetarian because of personal beliefs. If he ate a lot of nuts a vegetarian diet possibly did do him harm (more fat intake), but since there is no way to tell no assertion can be made either way.
"Although I have been prevented by outward circumstances from observing a strictly vegetarian diet, I have long been an adherent to the cause in principle. Besides agreeing with the aims of vegetarianism for aesthetic and moral reasons, it is my view that a vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind." --Albert Einstein (Translation of letter to Hermann Huth, December 27, 1930. Einstein Archive 46-756)
OK, if Einstein was going by the four temperaments, he probably thought vegetarianism would make humans more like him. He probably considered himself either melancholic or phlegmatic. If I had to pick one for myself, it would probably be melancholic. Just wondering what you would pick for yourself and if, as Einstein possibly believed, your diet has changed your temperament.
Likewise music and music listeners. Likewise programming and program users. Likewise the Internet and Internet users. Likewise astrophysics/astronomy and people that look at the night sky. Likewise gravity and people it applies to. Likewise chicken husbandry and chicken eaters. Likewise beekeeping and honey eaters. Likewise vegetarianism/veganism/pescatarianism/etc and people that follow such diets.
Cats and dogs? Didn't I read somewhere that you shouldn't feed your cats and dogs table scraps because it will make them fat? What do grains have to do with a calorie surplus from table scraps?
Making assumptions about my intelligence is rude. Some vegetarians don't consider chicken as meat and continue to eat it while calling themselves vegetarians, but I'm not going to make an assumption that all vegetarians are silly. There are beliefs, and then there are the things we need for optimum physiological function. Invariably the majority of humans diets aren't for optimum physiological function because (a) we don't know what exactly is required, and (b) even if we did our personal beliefs and opinions would get in the way of such a diet.
Sorry, but you sound like someone who disses dairy because humans didn't consume it centuries ago whilst ignoring the fact that humans adapted and lactose intolerance was no longer universal for our species. Humans can digest meat, so our bone and muscle structures are irrelevant. If there was such a thing as a natural diet, all humans today would be lactose intolerant. And no, I'm not promoting dairy or meat, I am saying we can live 50+ years eating such a diet or almost any diet. Looking both ways before crossing all roads probably extends longevity more than any diet could.
I don't care what you eat. As long as you don't spout misinformation I won't feel the urge to correct you. If you look at my post history you will see that most of my posts on vegetarian/vegan threads are related to nutrition/protein as some people considering vegetarianism think fruits, vegetables, and tofu is all they need, or if they are questioning if veganism is for them I point out things they may have to keep a closer watch on (just as I would for a diabetic or a pregnant woman).
I'm not ignorant nor misinformed, so please don't assume just because I eat the flesh of animals that I don't do my research on subjects. I never mention my intelligence (and hate it when other people mention it) but generalising all non-vegetarians is like generalising all humans, or all carbon-based life. We lost our fins and gills during evolution, why do some people think humans were made for swimming? Humans want to do things, therefore personal beliefs control almost everything we do. The only things natural for a human are the things we can not control (our hearts beat, we need to excrete waste, most of us have hair and fingernails that grow, etc.) Eating a vegetarian or omnivorous diet is no more natural than watching TV - our brains don't allow us to do what nature intended, unless nature intended for us to philosophate.
Science may say one thing and all scientists may have reached consensus on it, but clinical studies, averages, and population studies do not apply to all individuals. To pick a random quote from Wikipedia: "There were about 25 workers from Los Alamos National Laboratory who inhaled a considerable amount of plutonium dust during 1940s; according to the hot-particle theory, each of them has a 99.5% chance of being dead from lung cancer by now, but there has not been a single lung cancer among them."
And no, what you are stating is your personal belief. To my knowledge, there is absolutely no scientific consensus in "science" nor biology on what humans should eat. We shouldn't have too much uranium in our diet (governments set standards) but as with plutonium it might not kill us. How many things have an LD100? "X will kill you!" is all over the place, and is no more scientific than comparing anatomies of species. We, as a species, are not more intelligent because of our brain size (or any other metric such as brain mass as a percent of body mass). We can swim but are not fish, and other non-aquatic species can swim too (such as dogs). For the last several thousand years we have caught our food using tools or farmed it, cooked it, and used cutlery. When I eat chicken I don't have to kill it with my talons, rip the skin and feathers off with my sharp nails and teeth and then rip that raw meat off the bones with my sharp teeth, nor do I believe humans did 2,000 years ago. Not going quite so far back, TV and film always depicts Genghis Khan eating meat (i.e. what most people today would consider a meat eater), but he is usually holding a cooked leg of something. We adapted so we could digest dairy. We didn't need to adapt our bone, muscle, or organ structure, or enzymes* to eat meat, we "invented" fire.
* Our digestive system contains the enzymes needed to break down meat. We as a species have been eating meat much longer than we have been eating dairy. We gained the enzyme to digest dairy over time (most of those of us descended from Europeans, anyway). Whether we have adapted/evolved so we can digest meat is something I do not know, but it isn't outside the realm of impossible given the similarity to our ability to digest milk.
Tiger worms can have an omnivorous diet. They don't have faces, jaws, teeth, claws, stomachs, livers, kidneys, or colons. They have mouths, lips, pharynx, throats, gizzards, and intestines. All animals with gizzards swallow food whole including worms and chickens, both of which don't have teeth. Snakes don't have claws and they can move their jaws side-to-side (haven't done any research into snakes). To be honest I can't be bothered to look at the research and see what species/genera were/weren't included and how sound the findings are, but the questions that come to mind are:
Does it take evolutionary biology into account, and whether species/genera that evolved/adapted from carnivores and became omnivores (like bears) would probably have adapted/evolved differently than species/genera that evolved/adapted from herbivores (possibly like humans)?
Does it take the ability to create and use tools into account?
What science journal was it published in? If it was a respected one I might be a little less doubting.
And to reiterate, I am not ignorant. If this thread was about PCOS I probably wouldn't have commented because I don't know enough about the subject yet. But to assume I'm ignorant because I don't believe what you believe? Meh. Whether you reached your beliefs through hope, critical thinking, or something else, do what works for you. Unlike your post, I'm not going to suggest anyone is doing anything wrong. Actually, I'm sorry for any offence caused to chicken-eating vegetarians (pollo-vegetarians?), none was intended.0 -
Y'all are so sassy. Why do you care that much what other people eat? Everyone's body is different and tolerates foods differently. Get off your high horses and go eat some tofu, cheese, fruit, steak or whatever the heck makes you happy, because guess what!? My dinner tonight doesn't effect any of you, in anyway, whatsoever.0
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Not a big forum guy, but this was very entertaining. Had a stint of veganism, took the T. Colin Campbell course, and slowly noticed my strength in the gym was definitely decreasing over a course of a year.0
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As many of you know, the sheer ignorance of the general population when it comes to talking about a vegan / plant based diet is very misinformed. Most will say we are designed to be Omnivores (which is what our current diet suggests). Those that say we are carnivores just are too far gone to help anyway.
It's about what our bodies are designed for, not what we ACTUALLY eat. I think most will agree that humans as a whole do not eat ANYWHERE near what we were designed for considering the amount of processed foods being consumed.
I feel that I'm being trolled by people, but have to remember the amount of ignorance out there...
Just because the sports car CAN take octane 89, doesn't mean it wouldn't run better on octane 94. So yes, we CAN live and survive on an Omnivore diet, but that was never the argument. The argument has always been: "what is our natural diet as a species."
Without a shadow of a doubt, our bodies are not designed for meat, just as cats & dogs bodies are not designed for grains (which is why cats & dogs are the ONLY other two species (other than humans) who are overweight. Most of their food contains grains as fillers- which they CAN eat, but causes problems for them long term).
Here is a quote by a well known vegetarian:
"Nothing will benefit health or increase chances of survival on earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
- Albert Einstein
Living on a vegetarian diet didn't seem to hurt the most famous brain in the world.
Here is a list I've found comparing Carnivores, Omnivores & Humans. It seems to be pretty straight fwd and accurate. A ***** slap in the face of those who "believe" or "think" or "well thats my opinion" about us being omnivore. This is like the God vs. Atheist argument, too many people are too far invested to change their mind once this "new" evidence to them is presented. Human nature. I am a meat eater who was in search for the truth, which is why I am changing my diet now that I found the answer. It is not my opinion, it is science and biology. I believe that both those things trumps any of our "belief or opinion" when it comes to this.
From "The Comparative Anatomy of Eating", by Milton R. Mills, MD
Facial Muscles
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HUMAN: Well-developed
Jaw Type
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle
Jaw Joint Location
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars
Jaw Motion
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Major Jaw Muscles
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
CARNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
OMNIVORE: Large
HUMAN: Small
Teeth: Incisors
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Teeth: Canines
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted
Teeth: Molars
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps
Chewing
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary
Saliva
CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Stomach Type
CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple
Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
Length of Small Intestine
CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length
Colon
CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated
Liver
CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Kidney
CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine
Nails
CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails
Someone may have an "opinion" on one of these things, but to disprove most or all is impossible. This should be the KNOCK OUT PUNCH for those who believe we are meant to eat one way or another, but won't be. Like I said many times before, people are ignorant and very few actually take the time to research things that they don't agree on- which makes it pointless to argue with close minded people. No one thinks they are close minded, and in thinking someone else is, you could be called that yourself - so proceed with caution. I have promised myself to not even comment to those who write something where they obviously didn't do deep research on the subject. Too many opinions and not enough solid evidence here. Like another post about the "saliva from a dog".
The info above is to allow vegetarians and vegans to know what they already know! Eating like that makes you feel better and much more "alive". So share that info with people looking to make the switch, not people who are just debating the meat diet. Can't change their mind- it's too ingrained
I wrote that title so we all know when a troll comes in - a non vegan/vegetarian shouldn't have even opened this thread if they were not interested in becoming or learning about it. & yes I'm prepared for the heat from people saying "I don't like your tone". Truth hurts everyone one time or another.
Most people on here are not the general public, although if you want to post something about a divisive subject and restrict the audience to a certain group it would probably be better to make the post in a group rather than in the general forum (as per the site terms, IIRC). Most Americans can't point to their State on a map (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-shehori/poll-37-of-americans-unab_b_150933.html) but I don't assume most Americans are misinformed.
You feel you are being trolled? No, I feel like I am being trolled.
I don't generally eat Kosher meat but have probably done more research on Shechita slaughter than a Jew. Likewise Dhabiha and Muslims. Likewise pollination and farmers. Likewise radio signals and mobile phone users. Likewise first aid and injured people. Likewise the human body and humans. Likewise English legislation and English residents.
Likewise Einstein and people that mention Einstein. He possibly had autism - perhaps he found a diet that helped him control meltdowns, Google says some parents believe cutting dairy helps and others believe going vegan helps, but you don't seriously believe what he ate made him intelligent? He is dead, there is no way to know, but we do know he wasn't a vegetarian until later in life - was Einstein dumb until a year before he died? He died from a ruptured abdominal aortic aneurysm and refused surgery, it had been operated on several years before, and a low-fat diet is advised to prevent abdominal aortic aneurysms. Did Einstein follow a low-fat diet for his health? He didn't stop smoking. He was in the age group most likely to suffer such a medical condition. We don't know if he had hypertension. So, he probably wasn't that bothered with minimising his health risks and went vegetarian because of personal beliefs. If he ate a lot of nuts a vegetarian diet possibly did do him harm (more fat intake), but since there is no way to tell no assertion can be made either way.
"Although I have been prevented by outward circumstances from observing a strictly vegetarian diet, I have long been an adherent to the cause in principle. Besides agreeing with the aims of vegetarianism for aesthetic and moral reasons, it is my view that a vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind." --Albert Einstein (Translation of letter to Hermann Huth, December 27, 1930. Einstein Archive 46-756)
OK, if Einstein was going by the four temperaments, he probably thought vegetarianism would make humans more like him. He probably considered himself either melancholic or phlegmatic. If I had to pick one for myself, it would probably be melancholic. Just wondering what you would pick for yourself and if, as Einstein possibly believed, your diet has changed your temperament.
Likewise music and music listeners. Likewise programming and program users. Likewise the Internet and Internet users. Likewise astrophysics/astronomy and people that look at the night sky. Likewise gravity and people it applies to. Likewise chicken husbandry and chicken eaters. Likewise beekeeping and honey eaters. Likewise vegetarianism/veganism/pescatarianism/etc and people that follow such diets.
Cats and dogs? Didn't I read somewhere that you shouldn't feed your cats and dogs table scraps because it will make them fat? What do grains have to do with a calorie surplus from table scraps?
Making assumptions about my intelligence is rude. Some vegetarians don't consider chicken as meat and continue to eat it while calling themselves vegetarians, but I'm not going to make an assumption that all vegetarians are silly. There are beliefs, and then there are the things we need for optimum physiological function. Invariably the majority of humans diets aren't for optimum physiological function because (a) we don't know what exactly is required, and (b) even if we did our personal beliefs and opinions would get in the way of such a diet.
Sorry, but you sound like someone who disses dairy because humans didn't consume it centuries ago whilst ignoring the fact that humans adapted and lactose intolerance was no longer universal for our species. Humans can digest meat, so our bone and muscle structures are irrelevant. If there was such a thing as a natural diet, all humans today would be lactose intolerant. And no, I'm not promoting dairy or meat, I am saying we can live 50+ years eating such a diet or almost any diet. Looking both ways before crossing all roads probably extends longevity more than any diet could.
I don't care what you eat. As long as you don't spout misinformation I won't feel the urge to correct you. If you look at my post history you will see that most of my posts on vegetarian/vegan threads are related to nutrition/protein as some people considering vegetarianism think fruits, vegetables, and tofu is all they need, or if they are questioning if veganism is for them I point out things they may have to keep a closer watch on (just as I would for a diabetic or a pregnant woman).
I'm not ignorant nor misinformed, so please don't assume just because I eat the flesh of animals that I don't do my research on subjects. I never mention my intelligence (and hate it when other people mention it) but generalising all non-vegetarians is like generalising all humans, or all carbon-based life. We lost our fins and gills during evolution, why do some people think humans were made for swimming? Humans want to do things, therefore personal beliefs control almost everything we do. The only things natural for a human are the things we can not control (our hearts beat, we need to excrete waste, most of us have hair and fingernails that grow, etc.) Eating a vegetarian or omnivorous diet is no more natural than watching TV - our brains don't allow us to do what nature intended, unless nature intended for us to philosophate.
Science may say one thing and all scientists may have reached consensus on it, but clinical studies, averages, and population studies do not apply to all individuals. To pick a random quote from Wikipedia: "There were about 25 workers from Los Alamos National Laboratory who inhaled a considerable amount of plutonium dust during 1940s; according to the hot-particle theory, each of them has a 99.5% chance of being dead from lung cancer by now, but there has not been a single lung cancer among them."
And no, what you are stating is your personal belief. To my knowledge, there is absolutely no scientific consensus in "science" nor biology on what humans should eat. We shouldn't have too much uranium in our diet (governments set standards) but as with plutonium it might not kill us. How many things have an LD100? "X will kill you!" is all over the place, and is no more scientific than comparing anatomies of species. We, as a species, are not more intelligent because of our brain size (or any other metric such as brain mass as a percent of body mass). We can swim but are not fish, and other non-aquatic species can swim too (such as dogs). For the last several thousand years we have caught our food using tools or farmed it, cooked it, and used cutlery. When I eat chicken I don't have to kill it with my talons, rip the skin and feathers off with my sharp nails and teeth and then rip that raw meat off the bones with my sharp teeth, nor do I believe humans did 2,000 years ago. Not going quite so far back, TV and film always depicts Genghis Khan eating meat (i.e. what most people today would consider a meat eater), but he is usually holding a cooked leg of something. We adapted so we could digest dairy. We didn't need to adapt our bone, muscle, or organ structure, or enzymes* to eat meat, we "invented" fire.
* Our digestive system contains the enzymes needed to break down meat. We as a species have been eating meat much longer than we have been eating dairy. We gained the enzyme to digest dairy over time (most of those of us descended from Europeans, anyway). Whether we have adapted/evolved so we can digest meat is something I do not know, but it isn't outside the realm of impossible given the similarity to our ability to digest milk.
Tiger worms can have an omnivorous diet. They don't have faces, jaws, teeth, claws, stomachs, livers, kidneys, or colons. They have mouths, lips, pharynx, throats, gizzards, and intestines. All animals with gizzards swallow food whole including worms and chickens, both of which don't have teeth. Snakes don't have claws and they can move their jaws side-to-side (haven't done any research into snakes). To be honest I can't be bothered to look at the research and see what species/genera were/weren't included and how sound the findings are, but the questions that come to mind are:
Does it take evolutionary biology into account, and whether species/genera that evolved/adapted from carnivores and became omnivores (like bears) would probably have adapted/evolved differently than species/genera that evolved/adapted from herbivores (possibly like humans)?
Does it take the ability to create and use tools into account?
What science journal was it published in? If it was a respected one I might be a little less doubting.
And to reiterate, I am not ignorant. If this thread was about PCOS I probably wouldn't have commented because I don't know enough about the subject yet. But to assume I'm ignorant because I don't believe what you believe? Meh. Whether you reached your beliefs through hope, critical thinking, or something else, do what works for you. Unlike your post, I'm not going to suggest anyone is doing anything wrong. Actually, I'm sorry for any offence caused to chicken-eating vegetarians (pollo-vegetarians?), none was intended.
Fascinating read.
I would have expected this post would be /thread...
...if for no other reason than the sheer weight of it.0 -
Public transportation is a great idea for other people.0
-
As many of you know, the sheer ignorance of the general population when it comes to talking about a vegan / plant based diet is very misinformed. Most will say we are designed to be Omnivores (which is what our current diet suggests). Those that say we are carnivores just are too far gone to help anyway.
It's about what our bodies are designed for, not what we ACTUALLY eat. I think most will agree that humans as a whole do not eat ANYWHERE near what we were designed for considering the amount of processed foods being consumed.
I feel that I'm being trolled by people, but have to remember the amount of ignorance out there...
Just because the sports car CAN take octane 89, doesn't mean it wouldn't run better on octane 94. So yes, we CAN live and survive on an Omnivore diet, but that was never the argument. The argument has always been: "what is our natural diet as a species."
Without a shadow of a doubt, our bodies are not designed for meat, just as cats & dogs bodies are not designed for grains (which is why cats & dogs are the ONLY other two species (other than humans) who are overweight. Most of their food contains grains as fillers- which they CAN eat, but causes problems for them long term).
Here is a quote by a well known vegetarian:
"Nothing will benefit health or increase chances of survival on earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
- Albert Einstein
Living on a vegetarian diet didn't seem to hurt the most famous brain in the world.
Here is a list I've found comparing Carnivores, Omnivores & Humans. It seems to be pretty straight fwd and accurate. A ***** slap in the face of those who "believe" or "think" or "well thats my opinion" about us being omnivore. This is like the God vs. Atheist argument, too many people are too far invested to change their mind once this "new" evidence to them is presented. Human nature. I am a meat eater who was in search for the truth, which is why I am changing my diet now that I found the answer. It is not my opinion, it is science and biology. I believe that both those things trumps any of our "belief or opinion" when it comes to this.
From "The Comparative Anatomy of Eating", by Milton R. Mills, MD
Facial Muscles
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HUMAN: Well-developed
Jaw Type
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle
Jaw Joint Location
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars
Jaw Motion
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Major Jaw Muscles
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
CARNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
OMNIVORE: Large
HUMAN: Small
Teeth: Incisors
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Teeth: Canines
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted
Teeth: Molars
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps
Chewing
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary
Saliva
CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Stomach Type
CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple
Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
Length of Small Intestine
CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length
Colon
CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated
Liver
CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Kidney
CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine
Nails
CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails
Someone may have an "opinion" on one of these things, but to disprove most or all is impossible. This should be the KNOCK OUT PUNCH for those who believe we are meant to eat one way or another, but won't be. Like I said many times before, people are ignorant and very few actually take the time to research things that they don't agree on- which makes it pointless to argue with close minded people. No one thinks they are close minded, and in thinking someone else is, you could be called that yourself - so proceed with caution. I have promised myself to not even comment to those who write something where they obviously didn't do deep research on the subject. Too many opinions and not enough solid evidence here. Like another post about the "saliva from a dog".
The info above is to allow vegetarians and vegans to know what they already know! Eating like that makes you feel better and much more "alive". So share that info with people looking to make the switch, not people who are just debating the meat diet. Can't change their mind- it's too ingrained
I wrote that title so we all know when a troll comes in - a non vegan/vegetarian shouldn't have even opened this thread if they were not interested in becoming or learning about it. & yes I'm prepared for the heat from people saying "I don't like your tone". Truth hurts everyone one time or another.
Most people on here are not the general public, although if you want to post something about a divisive subject and restrict the audience to a certain group it would probably be better to make the post in a group rather than in the general forum (as per the site terms, IIRC). Most Americans can't point to their State on a map (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-shehori/poll-37-of-americans-unab_b_150933.html) but I don't assume most Americans are misinformed.
You feel you are being trolled? No, I feel like I am being trolled.
I don't generally eat Kosher meat but have probably done more research on Shechita slaughter than a Jew. Likewise Dhabiha and Muslims. Likewise pollination and farmers. Likewise radio signals and mobile phone users. Likewise first aid and injured people. Likewise the human body and humans. Likewise English legislation and English residents.
Likewise Einstein and people that mention Einstein. He possibly had autism - perhaps he found a diet that helped him control meltdowns, Google says some parents believe cutting dairy helps and others believe going vegan helps, but you don't seriously believe what he ate made him intelligent? He is dead, there is no way to know, but we do know he wasn't a vegetarian until later in life - was Einstein dumb until a year before he died? He died from a ruptured abdominal aortic aneurysm and refused surgery, it had been operated on several years before, and a low-fat diet is advised to prevent abdominal aortic aneurysms. Did Einstein follow a low-fat diet for his health? He didn't stop smoking. He was in the age group most likely to suffer such a medical condition. We don't know if he had hypertension. So, he probably wasn't that bothered with minimising his health risks and went vegetarian because of personal beliefs. If he ate a lot of nuts a vegetarian diet possibly did do him harm (more fat intake), but since there is no way to tell no assertion can be made either way.
"Although I have been prevented by outward circumstances from observing a strictly vegetarian diet, I have long been an adherent to the cause in principle. Besides agreeing with the aims of vegetarianism for aesthetic and moral reasons, it is my view that a vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind." --Albert Einstein (Translation of letter to Hermann Huth, December 27, 1930. Einstein Archive 46-756)
OK, if Einstein was going by the four temperaments, he probably thought vegetarianism would make humans more like him. He probably considered himself either melancholic or phlegmatic. If I had to pick one for myself, it would probably be melancholic. Just wondering what you would pick for yourself and if, as Einstein possibly believed, your diet has changed your temperament.
Likewise music and music listeners. Likewise programming and program users. Likewise the Internet and Internet users. Likewise astrophysics/astronomy and people that look at the night sky. Likewise gravity and people it applies to. Likewise chicken husbandry and chicken eaters. Likewise beekeeping and honey eaters. Likewise vegetarianism/veganism/pescatarianism/etc and people that follow such diets.
Cats and dogs? Didn't I read somewhere that you shouldn't feed your cats and dogs table scraps because it will make them fat? What do grains have to do with a calorie surplus from table scraps?
Making assumptions about my intelligence is rude. Some vegetarians don't consider chicken as meat and continue to eat it while calling themselves vegetarians, but I'm not going to make an assumption that all vegetarians are silly. There are beliefs, and then there are the things we need for optimum physiological function. Invariably the majority of humans diets aren't for optimum physiological function because (a) we don't know what exactly is required, and (b) even if we did our personal beliefs and opinions would get in the way of such a diet.
Sorry, but you sound like someone who disses dairy because humans didn't consume it centuries ago whilst ignoring the fact that humans adapted and lactose intolerance was no longer universal for our species. Humans can digest meat, so our bone and muscle structures are irrelevant. If there was such a thing as a natural diet, all humans today would be lactose intolerant. And no, I'm not promoting dairy or meat, I am saying we can live 50+ years eating such a diet or almost any diet. Looking both ways before crossing all roads probably extends longevity more than any diet could.
I don't care what you eat. As long as you don't spout misinformation I won't feel the urge to correct you. If you look at my post history you will see that most of my posts on vegetarian/vegan threads are related to nutrition/protein as some people considering vegetarianism think fruits, vegetables, and tofu is all they need, or if they are questioning if veganism is for them I point out things they may have to keep a closer watch on (just as I would for a diabetic or a pregnant woman).
I'm not ignorant nor misinformed, so please don't assume just because I eat the flesh of animals that I don't do my research on subjects. I never mention my intelligence (and hate it when other people mention it) but generalising all non-vegetarians is like generalising all humans, or all carbon-based life. We lost our fins and gills during evolution, why do some people think humans were made for swimming? Humans want to do things, therefore personal beliefs control almost everything we do. The only things natural for a human are the things we can not control (our hearts beat, we need to excrete waste, most of us have hair and fingernails that grow, etc.) Eating a vegetarian or omnivorous diet is no more natural than watching TV - our brains don't allow us to do what nature intended, unless nature intended for us to philosophate.
Science may say one thing and all scientists may have reached consensus on it, but clinical studies, averages, and population studies do not apply to all individuals. To pick a random quote from Wikipedia: "There were about 25 workers from Los Alamos National Laboratory who inhaled a considerable amount of plutonium dust during 1940s; according to the hot-particle theory, each of them has a 99.5% chance of being dead from lung cancer by now, but there has not been a single lung cancer among them."
And no, what you are stating is your personal belief. To my knowledge, there is absolutely no scientific consensus in "science" nor biology on what humans should eat. We shouldn't have too much uranium in our diet (governments set standards) but as with plutonium it might not kill us. How many things have an LD100? "X will kill you!" is all over the place, and is no more scientific than comparing anatomies of species. We, as a species, are not more intelligent because of our brain size (or any other metric such as brain mass as a percent of body mass). We can swim but are not fish, and other non-aquatic species can swim too (such as dogs). For the last several thousand years we have caught our food using tools or farmed it, cooked it, and used cutlery. When I eat chicken I don't have to kill it with my talons, rip the skin and feathers off with my sharp nails and teeth and then rip that raw meat off the bones with my sharp teeth, nor do I believe humans did 2,000 years ago. Not going quite so far back, TV and film always depicts Genghis Khan eating meat (i.e. what most people today would consider a meat eater), but he is usually holding a cooked leg of something. We adapted so we could digest dairy. We didn't need to adapt our bone, muscle, or organ structure, or enzymes* to eat meat, we "invented" fire.
* Our digestive system contains the enzymes needed to break down meat. We as a species have been eating meat much longer than we have been eating dairy. We gained the enzyme to digest dairy over time (most of those of us descended from Europeans, anyway). Whether we have adapted/evolved so we can digest meat is something I do not know, but it isn't outside the realm of impossible given the similarity to our ability to digest milk.
Tiger worms can have an omnivorous diet. They don't have faces, jaws, teeth, claws, stomachs, livers, kidneys, or colons. They have mouths, lips, pharynx, throats, gizzards, and intestines. All animals with gizzards swallow food whole including worms and chickens, both of which don't have teeth. Snakes don't have claws and they can move their jaws side-to-side (haven't done any research into snakes). To be honest I can't be bothered to look at the research and see what species/genera were/weren't included and how sound the findings are, but the questions that come to mind are:
Does it take evolutionary biology into account, and whether species/genera that evolved/adapted from carnivores and became omnivores (like bears) would probably have adapted/evolved differently than species/genera that evolved/adapted from herbivores (possibly like humans)?
Does it take the ability to create and use tools into account?
What science journal was it published in? If it was a respected one I might be a little less doubting.
And to reiterate, I am not ignorant. If this thread was about PCOS I probably wouldn't have commented because I don't know enough about the subject yet. But to assume I'm ignorant because I don't believe what you believe? Meh. Whether you reached your beliefs through hope, critical thinking, or something else, do what works for you. Unlike your post, I'm not going to suggest anyone is doing anything wrong. Actually, I'm sorry for any offence caused to chicken-eating vegetarians (pollo-vegetarians?), none was intended.
Definitely a fascinating read. Thank you, sir.0 -
First good response I have read while reading this thread.0
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