For Vegans / Vegetarians only.
Replies
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great post. although I stopped eating meat for moral reasons once I was old enough to learn the added healthy benefits it was a no brainer. well said
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Agreed, and being Canadian feel embarrassed that this got through our gene pool.
And this is why we can't have nice things... People never remember the vegans who quietly go about their business, making their own choices and letting others make theirs. Nope, they remember the loud mouthed, militant vegans with superiority complexes who go round ramming their beliefs down everyone else's throats and they assume we are all jerks.Because no other group of people has spent so much money, and so much time trying to amp up their moral superiority.
Plus OP isn't even vegan so I'm calling shenanigans, he's just trying to make us all look like douchenozzles.
I feel really bad for the vegans and vegetarians that are actually cool. To all you cool ones out there......:flowerforyou:
Actually, he is making meat eaters look bad - he is neither a vegetarian or a vegan...you may have missed the revaluation that he actually eats meat..obviously not strong willed enough to actually act upon his extremely loud convictions - or maybe they just aren't that important0 -
Please stop making meat-eaters look bad.
Thanks.0 -
"I think it was Ghandi who said a society should be judged on how it treats it's animals.
When I look at how animals are treated in meat, dairy and egg production I cannot remain a part of the animal industry - whether I have evolved to eat meat and partake of eggs and milk or not. "
Exactly how I feel...
Then you need to stop eating everything that is mass produced and grow your own everything. Would you care to know how many squirrels and rabbits are estimated to be hacked up by machinery in the soy harvest? How about how many rats meet horrific ends in the machinery used for corn processing? I could go on, but I think you see my point.
I totally see your point. However, I don't eat soy and I don't eat corn...I only eat certain veggies, fruit and whole grains. I use supplements for other nutrients that I need. I just don't want to contribute to any animals or people being hurt...0 -
I find it highly ironic that you have a person who actually eats meat, preaching the benefits of not eating meat to people who do not eat meat.
Plus, it is also ironic that I, as an actual vegetarian (for 25 years), totally disagree with the whole 'we were not meant to eat meat look at our teeth' argument, but the meat eater does agree with it and therefore is doing something that by his own argument is 'unnatural'
This site baffled me sometimes.
Thanks, Sara for being a SMART vegetarian on MFP.
I'm officially done with OP. I can handle stupid, but I can't handle sexist comments. So I'm outta here.
I thought you would have been gone when I SYA. thankfully I found the way to have you leave. Only if it would work for the other lady now...
Sorry...you obviously have an issue with people disagreeing with you...or maybe based on your other comment, you just have an issue with women disagreeing with you.
I have no issues arguing with transgender either. So I am sorry about the husband comment. My bad!0 -
And this is why we can't have nice things... People never remember the vegans who quietly go about their business, making their own choices and letting others make theirs. Nope, they remember the loud mouthed, militant vegans with superiority complexes who go round ramming their beliefs down everyone else's throats and they assume we are all jerks.Because no other group of people has spent so much money, and so much time trying to amp up their moral superiority.
Plus OP isn't even vegan so I'm calling shenanigans, he's just trying to make us all look like douchenozzles.
I feel really bad for the vegans and vegetarians that are actually cool. To all you cool ones out there......:flowerforyou:
Actually, he is making meat eaters look bad - he is neither a vegetarian or a vegan...you may have missed the revaluation that he actually eats meat..obviously not strong willed enough to actually act upon his extremely loud convictions - or maybe they just aren't that important
That's true. But that's if you read all the pages. If not, it really looks bad for vegans/vegetarians. And he's gone on about similar things in other threads.
But yes, later on..he starts making meat eaters look bad...and then..he makes men look bad. Really..in one thread? I have to admit that takes some kind of talent there. lol0 -
It's more about minimising the impact your lifestyle has on other species to the best of your abilities, it's impossible to eradicate suffering 100% from your lifestyle (pesticides etc, nobody can be perfect) but people try to do the best they can and it's better than doing nothing.
Then you need to stop eating everything that is mass produced and grow your own everything. Would you care to know how many squirrels and rabbits are estimated to be hacked up by machinery in the soy harvest? How about how many rats meet horrific ends in the machinery used for corn processing? I could go on, but I think you see my point.
Plus, I like a bit of squirrel in my soy milk, gives it a nutty taste
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Please don't put words in my mouth. It was in reference to refraining from grains because machinery may have killed some creatures. Doing your best means if palm oil was taken from sources that you know destroyed habitats, try to find an oil that isn't. I obtain my vegetables from my dad's garden, I pick out the slugs and put them back outside. They might not survive but I tried my best to prevent the death, and that is a point. If you eat anything derived directly from animal exploitation you cannot describe your lifestyle as vegan. I haven't spent any money or energy trying to prove I'm better than anyone, as I said already my choices are my own and I never start the argument, but defend when provoked.
To be honest, I get where you are coming from.
Now, here's my quarrel with this. You are basically allowing intent to be your defining factor. The deaths those slugs suffer could be one far more excruciating than if I were to say, decapitate a pig, or to use an extremely weird variation, put one down using a non-painful poison. Since your intention was to let the slug live, somehow it's death is less morally treacherous than the pigs, because I killed the pig with the intention of eating it, though the pig's death was far less painful?
Now, would you agree that if I were to raise my own animals for consumption, and could then be assured that their lives and deaths were as painless as possible, that I would be on the same moral wavelength as the Vegan lifestyle? If not, why?0 -
I find it highly ironic that you have a person who actually eats meat, preaching the benefits of not eating meat to people who do not eat meat.
Plus, it is also ironic that I, as an actual vegetarian (for 25 years), totally disagree with the whole 'we were not meant to eat meat look at our teeth' argument, but the meat eater does agree with it and therefore is doing something that by his own argument is 'unnatural'
This site baffled me sometimes.
Thanks, Sara for being a SMART vegetarian on MFP.
I'm officially done with OP. I can handle stupid, but I can't handle sexist comments. So I'm outta here.
I thought you would have been gone when I SYA. thankfully I found the way to have you leave. Only if it would work for the other lady now...
Sorry...you obviously have an issue with people disagreeing with you...or maybe based on your other comment, you just have an issue with women disagreeing with you.
I have no issues arguing with transgender either. So I am sorry about the husband comment. My bad!
At least you can apologize!!! And I am happy to see that you are inclusive to our tranny friends. Cis-normativity is boring!0 -
I find it highly ironic that you have a person who actually eats meat, preaching the benefits of not eating meat to people who do not eat meat.
Plus, it is also ironic that I, as an actual vegetarian (for 25 years), totally disagree with the whole 'we were not meant to eat meat look at our teeth' argument, but the meat eater does agree with it and therefore is doing something that by his own argument is 'unnatural'
This site baffled me sometimes.
Thanks, Sara for being a SMART vegetarian on MFP.
I'm officially done with OP. I can handle stupid, but I can't handle sexist comments. So I'm outta here.
I thought you would have been gone when I SYA. thankfully I found the way to have you leave. Only if it would work for the other lady now...
Sorry...you obviously have an issue with people disagreeing with you...or maybe based on your other comment, you just have an issue with women disagreeing with you.
I have no issues arguing with transgender either. So I am sorry about the husband comment. My bad!
Excuse me? Who are you insinuating is transgender?
The husband comment was not to me btw - so you should be apologizing to someone else.0 -
I can't say I agree with all the arguments for vegetarianism in the opening, but I don't really see anything wrong with preaching to the choir. I'm constantly reading questionable science about the necessity for large amounts of protein and lean meat. I've been an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 25 years, and I really want to cut down on the ovo and lacto part. But I keep reading about the wonders of large amounts of protein, and the importance of fish oil, etc. I think it's good to have a post promoting the other side.
Incidentally, though I was a chubby child, as soon as I switch to being a vegetarian I dropped to a healthy weight and have never been overweight since.0 -
And this is why we can't have nice things... People never remember the vegans who quietly go about their business, making their own choices and letting others make theirs. Nope, they remember the loud mouthed, militant vegans with superiority complexes who go round ramming their beliefs down everyone else's throats and they assume we are all jerks.Because no other group of people has spent so much money, and so much time trying to amp up their moral superiority.
Plus OP isn't even vegan so I'm calling shenanigans, he's just trying to make us all look like douchenozzles.
I feel really bad for the vegans and vegetarians that are actually cool. To all you cool ones out there......:flowerforyou:
Actually, he is making meat eaters look bad - he is neither a vegetarian or a vegan...you may have missed the revaluation that he actually eats meat..obviously not strong willed enough to actually act upon his extremely loud convictions - or maybe they just aren't that important
That's true. But that's if you read all the pages. If not, it really looks bad for vegans/vegetarians. And he's gone on about similar things in other threads.
But yes, later on..he starts making meat eaters look bad...and then..he makes men look bad. Really..in one thread? I have to admit that takes some kind of talent there. lol
Well, at least he is being all inclusive in his ability to make groups of people look bad I suppose.0 -
my biggest complaint with this thread is the word designed lol.0
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Anyone get what the op is trying to say? I cant make heads or tails of it since hes not vegetarian, why the beck did heate this posts to vegetarians exactly? And why is he in a vegetarian group on mfp if he has no aspirations to become one?0
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One of my favorite things about the veggie groups is that interested people can talk about what they want without any jokes or having to explain to people who don't understand. People who truly want to discuss among like-minded people can go talk there. Posting on the main boards is pretty much an invitation for these debates. (Actually, I think it would probably even fall under the group guideline stating that topics for only one group of people belong in the groups.) I'm not even sure why I'm here myself since I promised myself I'd avoid the vegan threads on the main boards. :blushing:
If you want to debate the merits of these diets, I encourage you as a vegan to just say that openly. Being a vegan is an important aspect of my identity, and I get tired of people making jokes about it or making assumptions about me just because I'm a vegan. But threads that are for "us only" on the main board that identify the vegan diet as superior gives people the motivation to make those jokes or assumptions. (Not that you are responsible for them, as of course they are responsible for themselves.) When someone invites vegans and vegetarians into a thread, and we come in and are embarrassed by the tone, most will speak up to challenge in order to avoid reinforcing all the stereotypes already out there.0 -
One of my favorite things about the veggie groups is that interested people can talk about what they want without any jokes or having to explain to people who don't understand. People who truly want to discuss among like-minded people can go talk there. Posting on the main boards is pretty much an invitation for these debates. (Actually, I think it would probably even fall under the group guideline stating that topics for only one group of people belong in the groups.) I'm not even sure why I'm here myself since I promised myself I'd avoid the vegan threads on the main boards. :blushing:
If you want to debate the merits of these diets, I encourage you as a vegan to just say that openly. Being a vegan is an important aspect of my identity, and I get tired of people making jokes about it or making assumptions about me just because I'm a vegan. But threads that are for "us only" on the main board that identify the vegan diet as superior gives people the motivation to make those jokes or assumptions. (Not that you are responsible for them, as of course they are responsible for themselves.) When someone invites vegans and vegetarians into a thread, and we come in and are embarrassed by the tone, most will speak up to challenge in order to avoid reinforcing all the stereotypes already out there.
The OP isn't even a vegan or vegetarian - he eats chicken.0 -
And pizza, which is likely topped with sausage or pepperoni, as well as sushi.One of my favorite things about the veggie groups is that interested people can talk about what they want without any jokes or having to explain to people who don't understand. People who truly want to discuss among like-minded people can go talk there. Posting on the main boards is pretty much an invitation for these debates. (Actually, I think it would probably even fall under the group guideline stating that topics for only one group of people belong in the groups.) I'm not even sure why I'm here myself since I promised myself I'd avoid the vegan threads on the main boards. :blushing:
If you want to debate the merits of these diets, I encourage you as a vegan to just say that openly. Being a vegan is an important aspect of my identity, and I get tired of people making jokes about it or making assumptions about me just because I'm a vegan. But threads that are for "us only" on the main board that identify the vegan diet as superior gives people the motivation to make those jokes or assumptions. (Not that you are responsible for them, as of course they are responsible for themselves.) When someone invites vegans and vegetarians into a thread, and we come in and are embarrassed by the tone, most will speak up to challenge in order to avoid reinforcing all the stereotypes already out there.
The OP isn't even a vegan or vegetarian - he eats chicken.0 -
"Apparently neither of you comprehend English very well. 'Accomplished' does not equal 'the very best'. My point was that if this is the ideal way for humans to eat, Vegans should be destroying the records set by meat eaters. They aren't. Why?
You are all just dodging my question, not answering it in any way.
Also...linking me bodybuilders when I mention strength? Is that supposed to be a joke?"
Maybe not everyone has the want to compete and hold records and be the best and strength and sports competitions. And maybe many vegetarians/vegans are a part of that group who do not have the want or interest because they are into other things.
(I really need to learn to hit 'quote' instead of 'reply')0 -
Maybe not everyone has the want to compete and hold records and be the best and strength and sports competitions. And maybe many vegetarians/vegans are a part of that group who do not have the want or interest because they are into other things.
So you mean to tell me that you honestly believe that out of all of the Vegan lifters out there, not a single one of them actually aspires to be the first Vegan powerlifter to set a world record? Bull****.
ETA: For example, the guy that just set a lifting record for Germany. You know as well as I do that he would love nothing more than to one day crack the world record in his weight class wide open. If he does, I will be fully willing to eat my words. Until then, I am pretty sure he can't, and his sub-optimal diet has a lot to do with it.0 -
I have huge respect for people who chose to be vegetarians for ethical reasons. I wish I had that much will power.
However, claiming that we were meant to be herbivores is a bit of a stretch, considering there is scientific proof that consuming animal protein was a big factor in our evolution and brain development.
I do believe, nowdays you can get all the nutrients you need from a vegan/vegetarian diet.
Just please, please stop saying "eat all the corpses you want".0 -
There are more things to be superior in than just physical competitions. You really need to calm down and open your eyes. Holding a world strength record doesn't make you "the best human being on the planet". For all you know there could be people who are more physically superior who don't compete. And there are other areas to be superior in.
Jesus Christ...does Tofu make people unable to comprehend plain English? Reread my post, and you will realize that none of the people you listed meet my criteria.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't being superior at anything involve more than just diet? I think you're just frustrating yourself expecting an answer you know probably doesn't exist, if you have such expertise. A lot of people succeed immensely on a vegan diet. A lot of people succeed otherwise.
ps-I'm vegan, but because of medical/ethical reasons. I personally feel better this way. Doesn't mean everyone does.
Yes, of course it does. However, the OP is arguing that Vegan is 'superior', which it clearly is not...either that, or Vegans just suck at life. I prefer to think it's the diet holding them back from the physical greatness that those who have gone before them have accomplished while consuming all manner of animal products.0 -
It seems like trolling- meat eater ranting in favor of vegetarianism.... Delves into misogyny.... But he put in a lot of energy into it....like more than your average troll.0
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There are more things to be superior in than just physical competitions. You really need to calm down and open your eyes. Holding a world strength record doesn't make you "the best human being on the planet". For all you know there could be people who are more physically superior who don't compete. And there are other areas to be superior in.
I am not the one claiming that a specific diet is the way humans were meant to eat either. However, the OP (as well as many of Veganism's proponents) have tried to do just that. Since all of the getting slapped down by evolutionary science hasn't slowed their roll, about the only thing left to do is point out the obvious, which is what I have been doing.0 -
There are more things to be superior in than just physical competitions. You really need to calm down and open your eyes. Holding a world strength record doesn't make you "the best human being on the planet". For all you know there could be people who are more physically superior who don't compete. And there are other areas to be superior in.
I am not the one claiming that a specific diet is the way humans were meant to eat either. However, the OP (as well as many of Veganism's proponents) have tried to do just that. Since all of the getting slapped down by evolutionary science hasn't slowed their roll, about the only thing left to do is point out the obvious, which is what I have been doing.
successfully, I might add.0 -
I am not the one claiming that a specific diet is the way humans were meant to eat either. However, the OP (as well as many of Veganism's proponents) have tried to do just that. Since all of the getting slapped down by evolutionary science hasn't slowed their roll, about the only thing left to do is point out the obvious, which is what I have been doing.
Have to chime in that many vegans are also completely uninterested in whose diet is superior but rather in defending that it is adequate. I don't need my diet or health to be better than someone else's, just healthy enough for me to get by. I don't in the end care if we are "designed" to eat meat because of B-12 (even though I think that's a misconception) because I live in the modern age and don't have to worry about that.0 -
I'm veg, but I'm also a biologist. We are designed to be omnivores as are bears and dogs. Cats are obligate carnivores so they do not fit into your argument. I don't eat meat because I view is as something unnecessary and I'm trying to lower my carbon foot print. I still wear leather and I still feed my cat meat and, yes, I am perfectly aware of where those products come from.0
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Have to chime in that many vegans are also completely uninterested in whose diet is superior but rather in defending that it is adequate. I don't need my diet or health to be better than someone else's, just healthy enough for me to get by. I don't in the end care if we are "designed" to eat meat because of B-12 (even though I think that's a misconception) because I live in the modern age and don't have to worry about that.
And that is obviously just fine. I have never had any kind of quarrel with people who take up the lifestyle for moral reasons (though I will occasionally poke holes in their sails). As I stated, my problem is with all of the 'meat will kill you', 'humans are herbivores', 'being a Vegan can cure everything but AIDS' crap that I see bandied around.
I will admit, I pose one of the few questions that Vegans can only make excuses for, but not truly answer. That is obviously by design. If you can't answer why people on such a diet aren't completely wrecking **** in the strength world, then you definitely can't claim that it's a superior diet. Why? Because food makes the body function. If the bodies of an entire group are functioning at a lesser level than those in another dietary group, it should tell you something.0 -
Another long-term veg here to appeal to rationality- this thread is outright nonsense and I find it offensive that the OP initially implied that he was a veg*n when really his message is totally hypocritical. What everybody chooses to eat or not eat is their own choice. No long term vegetarians get to that point without a strong moral or ethical conviction. None of the evolutionary or health claims hold any water against a whole-foods based, diverse omnivorous diet, and anyone who switches to veg*nism with those ideals will eventually realize that they can get all the same benefits without being strictly veg*n. It comes down to the moral and ethical motives, period. I did not elect you to speak for me. Stop the preaching, please, it makes veg*ns look like irrational idiots.0
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I'm veg, but I'm also a biologist. We are designed to be omnivores as are bears and dogs. Cats are obligate carnivores so they do not fit into your argument. I don't eat meat because I view is as something unnecessary and I'm trying to lower my carbon foot print. I still wear leather and I still feed my cat meat and, yes, I am perfectly aware of where those products come from.
Thank you :flowerforyou:
Especially for feeding your cat meat because I've heard a few stories from various sources (vets, vet techs, random people) about people who try to turn their cats vegan. Not good.
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I'm veg, but I'm also a biologist. We are designed to be omnivores as are bears and dogs. Cats are obligate carnivores so they do not fit into your argument. I don't eat meat because I view is as something unnecessary and I'm trying to lower my carbon foot print. I still wear leather and I still feed my cat meat and, yes, I am perfectly aware of where those products come from.
Thank you :flowerforyou:
Especially for feeding your cat meat because I've heard a few stories from various sources (vets, vet techs, random people) about people who try to turn their cats vegan. Not good.
Are you serious? People try to turn their cats Vegan? Do I even dare Google this subject? O_O
That's just....cruel. This is coming from the guy who used to hate cats, until I owned one from a kitten and realized that they are actually pretty badass if you play with them all of the time to keep them from turning into lazy sacks of ****.0
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