Protein?? How do I eat less of it

CoderGal

Nitrogen balance in the low protein condition resulted in two of the six bodybuilders entering into negative nitrogen balance. A linear regression calculation of protein requirements needed to attain zero nitrogen balance indicated that bodybuilders required 1.2 g·kg-1·day-1 with a correction factor of 1 standard deviation (SD) unit added. When comparing low protein diets to high protein diets, it was found that nitrogen balance was significantly more positive for the high protein condition than the low protein condition (13.35 grams of N retained vs. 1.06 grams of N retained). Surprisingly, the authors did not find a significant change in lean body mass (LBM). The authors suggested that these results may have been due to overestimation of nitrogen retention. However, Tipton and Wolfe [1] recently postulated that the protein deposition may have been too small to detect. This explanation appears valid considering the fact that these were experienced bodybuilders who were in 'maintenance' and that each condition in the study lasted for only a 10 day duration.

notice the bold

That was one study comparing bodybuilders who were maintaining their mass, and even their lowest-protein group was consuming over 1g of protein per kg of bodyweight.

In a second study conducted by Tarnopolsky et al. [13] strength athletes with 3–9 months of training experience and sedentary participants were analyzed in response to low (0.8 g·kg-1·day-1), moderate (1.4 g·kg-1·day-1) and high protein intakes (2.4 g·kg-1·day-1). Utilizing linear regression, protein requirements for sedentary and strength athletes were found to be 0.69 and 1.4 g·kg-1·day-1 respectively. In addition to nitrogen balance however, the authors utilized a tracer technique to measure whole body protein synthesis (WBPS). Results indicated that WBPS increased from low to moderate protein intake, with no significant increase from the moderate to high condition.

Further, the rate of leucine oxidation increased as protein intakes increased, indicating that a great deal of the excess protein intake was utilized as energy. One variable in this study that the authors mentioned was that the additional protein from the moderate to high protein conditions was added from whey, making the diet a higher quality of protein relative to the low and moderate protein diets.

I was reading this one too and all i could think "who cares about the nitrogen balance."

People who have a clue about biology care about nitrogen balance.

I conclude this "peer review study" you posted invalid.

The link wasn't to a study. It was to a collection of dozens of studies. Look at the summary table - five of these peer-reviewed studies concluded you need more than 1g/kg of bodyweight protein to maintain muscle mass.

Go get 'em white tiger lol I'm taking the advice given to me and I'm out :P

MoreBean13

Protein is important, but the amount people think they need is over rated. Carbs convert at a 1:1 ratio, protein .48:1 ratio. You get more glucose which will prevent muscles mass being used for energy.

Assuming a depleted state of glucose.
example 1: you consume 100g of carbs and workout using 75g of glucose, you still have 25g of glucose left.
example 2: you consume 100g of protein you get 48g grams of glucose. You still need 27g of glucose, this will come from muscle mass.

ASSUMING A DEPLETED STATE OF GLUCOSE, REPLENISHING GLUCOSE IS IMPORTANT.

PEOPLE, THE FOUNDATIONS OF SPORTS NUTRITION ARE BEING SHAKEN.

jonnythan

Go get 'em white tiger lol I'm taking the advice given to me and I'm out :P

Yeah, I think I'm done. When he just brushes aside a collection of peer reviewed studies as "invalid" what else can you do?

I will listen to the science, and I will listen to what all the people who have accomplished what I want to accomplish have done. They have, invariably, consumed 1.5+ grams of protein per kg of bodyweight. It obviously works, and the science agrees. Ignoring that would be stupid.

jonnythan

just know it's not as necessary as you think, sit back and enjoy your food.

The science disagrees. If you could produce some peer-reviewed studies that say that people losing weight and training hard maintain or build just as much muscle mass when eating 0.7g/kg protein as those eating 1.5g/kg, then show me.

That would be a start. A peer-reviewed study that shows that for people losing weight, high protein intake doesn't make a difference.

jonnythan

What would your conclusion of the entire book be?
It's a load of crap. That's how i see the link you posted.

That's nice that you can toss out genuine peer-reviewed science because that's just "how you see it."

Show me a peer-reviewed study that shows that, for people who lose weight and exercise, they maintain/build the same muscle mass eating low protein (<.8g/kg) vs high (>1.2g/kg).

That is data that would support your position.

edithosb

Really high amounts of protein aren't good for you. Your body can only use so much, and the process of excreting the rest involves calcium. One reason why we have so much osteoporosis in America (compared to many developing nations that have almost none) is our high protein diets. We leach the calcium from our bones as we digest the excess protein. I kid you not: there's lots of science behind this.

jonnythan

Really high amounts of protein aren't good for you. Your body can only use so much, and the process of excreting the rest involves calcium. One reason why we have so much osteoporosis in America (compared to many developing nations that have almost none) is our high protein diets. We leach the calcium from our bones as we digest the excess protein. I kid you not: there's lots of science behind this.

Can you link to some of these studies? How much is too much? How does weight training affect this?

jonnythan

Really high amounts of protein aren't good for you. Your body can only use so much, and the process of excreting the rest involves calcium. One reason why we have so much osteoporosis in America (compared to many developing nations that have almost none) is our high protein diets. We leach the calcium from our bones as we digest the excess protein. I kid you not: there's lots of science behind this.

"The idea that protein, particularly animal protein, is problematic for bones is a myth, says bone researcher Jane Kerstetter, PhD, RD, professor of nutrition at the University of Connecticut. "Protein does not dissolve bone. Just the opposite."

Bones are about 50% protein. Bone repair requires a steady stream of dietary amino acids, the building blocks of body proteins.

"Adequate calcium and vitamin D cast a protective net around bones, but protein comes in a close second," Kerstetter says."

Although most Americans get plenty of protein, many older women fail to get enough protein on a daily basis and it's hurting their bones, according to Kerstetter.

The suggested daily protein intake is 0.8 grams of protein per 2.2 pounds for men and women over age 19.

http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/living-with-osteoporosis-7/diet-dangers?page=2

AnvilHead

Really high amounts of protein aren't good for you. Your body can only use so much, and the process of excreting the rest involves calcium. One reason why we have so much osteoporosis in America (compared to many developing nations that have almost none) is our high protein diets. We leach the calcium from our bones as we digest the excess protein. I kid you not: there's lots of science behind this.

Excellent. Now define "Really high" and provide research to support the threshold you prescribe. Unless you believe there's a "one size fits all" answer, please make sure to define "really high" thresholds for:

1) Children
2) Elderly
3) Sedentary people
4) Active people
5) People in caloric deficits
6) People engaged in strength training
7) People with liver/kidney issues which are affected by protein consumption.
8) People without liver/kidney issues which are affected by protein consumption.
9) People actively trying to increase muscle mass (bodybuilders).
10) Burn victims or others who are in the process of regenerating skin/tissue as part of their healing process.

[ETA:] My protein goal is approximately 190g/day. Without knowing anything further about me (age, height, weight, body composition, level of activity, fitness goals, total daily calorie intake, macro ratios, etc.), please tell me if this is "Really high" or not, and why. If you can cite some scientific literature to back up your answer, that would really be great. Thanks.

Bunnaliqua

Hello!

One tip I learned to eat less protein is to treat it as a condiment not a substantial element of the meal.

That being said,
my doctor told me I should have 90g protein a day
a dietitian told me to have 70g as a bare minimum per day
and MFP says 45g

I'm a 5'4" female in my 30s

Hope that helps you make wise choices for yourself

CoderGal

Really high amounts of protein aren't good for you. Your body can only use so much, and the process of excreting the rest involves calcium. One reason why we have so much osteoporosis in America (compared to many developing nations that have almost none) is our high protein diets. We leach the calcium from our bones as we digest the excess protein. I kid you not: there's lots of science behind this.

^What's "high"? Tell this one to all people out there who eat significantly more then .8g/kg and have crazy strong bones. Some of them are on this site. Such a broad statement to pick out protein as the problem. I've read these studies before. initially they gave me quite the scare. What it boils down to is lack of calcium. If you aren't getting all your nutrients something is going to go wrong. Get your calcium. It's all a balance. I don't think lacking protein or any other nutrient is the answer.

jonnythan

No, I know what goes on a lab, i don't really care for studies honestly. I just post them so people won't say to cite references.
I already posted like 10 studies on lower protein.

Go review it, and if you don't agree with them for whatever reason, dismiss it. Be your own peer review.

None of which, as far as I saw, support your claim that you can get the same results on a low-protein diet as a high-protein one when losing weight and working out.

Unless I missed one.

jonnythan

The studies where on building muscle mass, not so much weight loss. The fatter you are the more fat you will oxidize as you probably already know.

Well that's where your misunderstanding is. The literature clearly shows increased protein requirements for people who are losing weight. Turns out that the bigger your caloric deficit, the larger portion of the protein you consume gets metabolized for energy instead of protein synthesis. That's the reason you need more protein when losing weight.

From my reading, I'm comfortable eating 100g or less of protein when gaining weight, even when working out. But when losing weight and working out, I'm not comfortable getting less than 130-140g.

MyM0wM0w

OP, I discussed this with my Dr. today and he gave me the following guidelines.

"Protein is made from Amino Acids. Adequate protein is needed every day. It helps to maintain your muscles, and amino acids are building blocks for many important cell reactions. Everyone needs at LEAST .8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight (weight in pounds divided 2.2).

Sedentary individuals : .8 grams per kg of body weight.
When doing aerobic training that is moderate to vigorous: 1.2 grams per kg of lean body weight.
When weight lifting to make body shaping or hypertrophy gains: 1.4-1.6 grams per kg of body weight.
For healing from surgery: 1-1.2 grams per kilogram of body weight.
For healing a tendon or ligament from an injury: 1.2 grams per kg of lean weight.