KETONE DIET- what are youir thoughts on it????

PaleoPath4Lyfe

The Huffington Post had an article about Keytones. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/becky-hand/raspberry-ketones_b_2727943.html

Raspberry ketones, are you serious????

We are talking about putting our bodies into natural ketosis - not taking some dumb supplement that is obviously just a dumb marketing tool for the diet industry to make $$$

CoachReddy

omg. the ignorance in this thread. it burnses us. Coach guy is a freakin' moron with bad "science".

you know I'm on your side right? I agree that a certain restriction of carbs can be helpful. I just think prolonged keto can be an issue long term. no one has shown me evidence otherwise.

also... personal attack.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

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It's a superior diet for many reasons. It's how we all got here; that is to say, as a matter of evolutionary biology, it saved our ancestors from every major blight and famine in human history.

The diet provides a huge metabolic advantage. Compared to other diets, you can maintain all of your essential body functions while eating 8,400 fewer calories each month -- a 2.5 lb. advantage every single month.

As I've written in another post:

"[T]he reason why fat loss is so much easier for those on low carbohydate diets, especially a ketogenic diet (< 50 grams of carbs a day for most people), is because they have to eat 300 fewer calories each day, compared to everyone else trying to lose weight. Over just one week's time, that's 2,100 calories: a huge "metabolic advantage."

In that regard, the brain is unlike any other part of the body. It can only run off of two types of fuel: glucose or the ketone body beta-hydroxybutyyrate combined with a relatively small amount of glucose. Everyone's brain, regardless of his or her height and weight, uses roughly the same amount of calories.

When a person is eating less than 50 grams of carbohydrates a day, they produce sufficient amounts of the ketone body beta-hydroxybutyrate to fuel the majority of the brain's energy needs -- roughly 75%. By limiting carbohydrates and not spiking insulin all day long, ketogenic dieters are always in so-called "fat burning mode": hormone sensitive lipase is upregulated all the time, resulting in the constant breakdown and mobilization of triglycerides. As those triglycerides are broken down, the liver immediately grabs its share of the fatty acids and glycerol to fuel the brain. The liver does so by making beta-hydroxybutyrate out of the fatty acids and uses the glycerol to make glucose in a process called "gluconeogenesis."

People who simply cut calories never produce enough beta-hydroxybutyrate to sufficiently fuel their brains. As a result, they are invariably subject to hypoglycemia and have to eat carbohydrates every time their glycogen runs low. On a ketogenic diet, the brain is always taken care of endogenously through the process above. Consequently, ketogenic dieters never experience hypoglycemia and can effortlessly eat less and stick to their daily calorie goals while rarely even thinking about food. When the brain is fed, the overwhelming majority of the body's cells can function using fatty acids.

The ketogenic diet is the reason all of us are here posting in this thread. It's how our ancestors overcame every major blight and famine in human history. It's why I cringe when I hear those who never took high school biochemistry call it a 'fad'."

ETA: When people talk about the life-extension benefits of "calorie restriction," it's just a polite way of saying "carbohydrate restriction." Even then, however, most people don't really know what it works, but I'd bet a brick house against a bag of sugary donuts that it's because of the powerful attenuating effects of beta-hydroxybutyrate on oxidative stress.

This makes a fantastic amount of sense, however, let me ask you this. Our ancestors ate ketgenic diets - not out of choice, but out of necessity. They also, once given the opportunity, returned to eating more carbs when available. Essentially keto is our biochemical hibernation to help us survive the less plentiful winter. My argument continues to be the same. Those people returned to eating carbs when available, because keto is NOT optimal long term! It's great for short periods of time, but eventually unless you cycle off it, you risk some dangerous side effects including loss of muscle mass which will slow your metabolism and spiral downward from there. Other side effects have all already been mentioned so I won't rehash. But if you're using the evolutionary argument - which is a good one - then you also have to recognize that it isn't meant to be long term.

You are correct in what your saying.........

However, since we live in times of "plenty" to eat and don't have to worry about where our next meal is going to come from........and most of us have more than enough body fat to sustain ketosis for a longer period it is not unhealthy or unsafe to be in prolonged periods of ketosis, especially if you are using it to heal our bodies from endocrine and metabolic disorders......aka restoring insulin sensitivity.

One should know their body and will know when to bring themselves out of ketosis and start upping their carb intake as the feeling of no appetite goes away as their body fat returns to a more normal percentage, that is when the muscle sparring qualities of the ketogenic diet go away and one will be at risk of burning muscle when there is no longer enough excess body fat to burn off.

I am currently cycling between a low carb, ketogenic way of eating and general controlled carb. This is working for me for heavy lfiting and getting decent gains.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Spartan_Maker

show previous quotes

It's a superior diet for many reasons. It's how we all got here; that is to say, as a matter of evolutionary biology, it saved our ancestors from every major blight and famine in human history.

The diet provides a huge metabolic advantage. Compared to other diets, you can maintain all of your essential body functions while eating 8,400 fewer calories each month -- a 2.5 lb. advantage every single month.

As I've written in another post:

"[T]he reason why fat loss is so much easier for those on low carbohydate diets, especially a ketogenic diet (< 50 grams of carbs a day for most people), is because they have to eat 300 fewer calories each day, compared to everyone else trying to lose weight. Over just one week's time, that's 2,100 calories: a huge "metabolic advantage."

In that regard, the brain is unlike any other part of the body. It can only run off of two types of fuel: glucose or the ketone body beta-hydroxybutyyrate combined with a relatively small amount of glucose. Everyone's brain, regardless of his or her height and weight, uses roughly the same amount of calories.

When a person is eating less than 50 grams of carbohydrates a day, they produce sufficient amounts of the ketone body beta-hydroxybutyrate to fuel the majority of the brain's energy needs -- roughly 75%. By limiting carbohydrates and not spiking insulin all day long, ketogenic dieters are always in so-called "fat burning mode": hormone sensitive lipase is upregulated all the time, resulting in the constant breakdown and mobilization of triglycerides. As those triglycerides are broken down, the liver immediately grabs its share of the fatty acids and glycerol to fuel the brain. The liver does so by making beta-hydroxybutyrate out of the fatty acids and uses the glycerol to make glucose in a process called "gluconeogenesis."

People who simply cut calories never produce enough beta-hydroxybutyrate to sufficiently fuel their brains. As a result, they are invariably subject to hypoglycemia and have to eat carbohydrates every time their glycogen runs low. On a ketogenic diet, the brain is always taken care of endogenously through the process above. Consequently, ketogenic dieters never experience hypoglycemia and can effortlessly eat less and stick to their daily calorie goals while rarely even thinking about food. When the brain is fed, the overwhelming majority of the body's cells can function using fatty acids.

The ketogenic diet is the reason all of us are here posting in this thread. It's how our ancestors overcame every major blight and famine in human history. It's why I cringe when I hear those who never took high school biochemistry call it a 'fad'."

ETA: When people talk about the life-extension benefits of "calorie restriction," it's just a polite way of saying "carbohydrate restriction." Even then, however, most people don't really know what it works, but I'd bet a brick house against a bag of sugary donuts that it's because of the powerful attenuating effects of beta-hydroxybutyrate on oxidative stress.

This makes a fantastic amount of sense, however, let me ask you this. Our ancestors ate ketgenic diets - not out of choice, but out of necessity. They also, once given the opportunity, returned to eating more carbs when available. Essentially keto is our biochemical hibernation to help us survive the less plentiful winter. My argument continues to be the same. Those people returned to eating carbs when available, because keto is NOT optimal long term! It's great for short periods of time, but eventually unless you cycle off it, you risk some dangerous side effects including loss of muscle mass which will slow your metabolism and spiral downward from there. Other side effects have all already been mentioned so I won't rehash. But if you're using the evolutionary argument - which is a good one - then you also have to recognize that it isn't meant to be long term.

A person doesn't lose muscle mass on a properly constructed ketogenic diet. Fortunately, technology has provided us with an infinite number of ways to advance evolution, from a nutritional standpoint and otherwise; needless to say, we could literally list about a million things. I'll just list a few: table salt, potassium chloride, and magnesium citrate. Anyone on a ketogenic diet who supplements with those three minerals won't lose any more muscle mass than anyone else.

What's more, beta-hydroxybutyrate is undoubtedly one of the most powerful protein sparing substances in our body. My numbers are incomparable from 42% down to 13%. Currently, I incorporate carbs because I recognize the body is dynamic. Toward that end, contrary to the other myth about the problems of reintroducing carbs, a simple 14-day rolling correlation study shows my body responding favorably to carbs since going under 13% body fat. In fact, it's my body's most preferred macronutrient since I've gone under 10% body fat.

"Slowing metabolism" as a dangerous side effect is positively bizarre to me. The entire goal of life-extension is to get to your ideal body compositon and crash your metabolism. A high metabolism equals greater pathology. I should mention, however, that I haven't been fortunate enough to crash my metabolism: my TDEE is still 3,300, even after 14 months of a ketogenic diet.

explain the slow metabolism being an advantage over a fast one. I've got a high metabolism genetically, and everything conventional wisdom tells you is that you should eat well and exercise to raise your metabolism. I'm definitely one to question conventional wisdom and it's usually a bunch of BS, but I wasn't aware that tidbit was potentially incorrect.

honestly we probably agree on pretty much everything here - I'm currently eating primal to see if it will help with my reflux/inflammation issues. I think the difference between us philosophically is about 100g of carbs give or take. lol

I have to run for now, but in sum, a high metabolism is obviously good for reaching and then maintaining our body compositions, but it's not good for aging, because it leads to more pathology through cell division, among other things.

If you're really interested in anti-aging research, it's like science fiction realized since the 2009 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awared to Dr. Elizabeth Blackburn et als. from UCSF for their work on telomeres, telomerase, the Hayflick Limit etc.

Once we get beyond our major growth years, say 15-25, what we really want to do, if longevity is our goal, is get to our ideal body compositions, crash our metabolisms, and physiologically hunker down. That's where keto (beta-hydroxybutyrate attenuating oxidative stress), intermittent fasting, general theories of calorie restriction, herbs like astragalus (TA-65) and rei-shi mushrooms, Omega-3, Vitamin D, beta-alanine, carnosine, resveratrol, and all these other things become really important.

It all comes down to protecting our telomeres by strengthening, among other things, our immune system, meaning bone marrow, thymus, lymphatic system.

If you do decide to climb down into that rabbit hole, you'll have lots of fun, and probably be stunned by what the top molecular biologists and biochemists are talking about. It's not what you're seeing every day on mainstream TV. You'll find lots of these people, including Dr. Blackburn talking about these things in videos found online. Dr. Cynthia Kenyon at UCSF is another great source, especially on the issue of macronutrients, metabolism, and longevity.

Spartan_Maker

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

It's also recklessly reductionist.

taso42

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Which part? TDEE-20% is true. That's just simple math.
Lifting weights- ok you don't HAVE TO
Gimmicky diets - ok every now and then some does a gimmicky diet and keeps the weight off. This typically means they used the gimmick diet as a stepping stone to a new lifestyle.

Sqeekyjojo

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unless you've got an autoimmune disorder, you should really steer clear of keto diets.

CoachReddy, I've never heard anyone talk about these two things together. Is keto somehow helpful for people with autoimmune issues, or did you mean metabolic disorders?

haha wow. yeah... that's what i meant. brain fart. sorry.

Lol. Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Just got my hopes up a little bit.

There are some rheumatologists who believe that a high carb (especially refined carbs) and dairy diet makes autoimmune diseases worse.

I was part of a study way waaaay back about 20 odd years ago. And, in all honesty, disease activity as measured by eat and crp did decrease when I had less of either. I was a teenager and about 123 lbs at the time. I didn't carry on with it because I was vegetarian and dependent upon my mother. As far as she's concerned, a meal isn't a meal without at least three servings of processed meat, 4 dairy and about ten of refined carbs and hydrogenated fats, though. So all I had access to was cheap white bread, cheap hard cheese (or more likely processed cheese) and pasta most of the time.

I don't know if the successes reported had a correlation with the immune disease reacting to certain products and then going haywire, or whether it was dismissed in the end. But, purely anecdotally, once I was later referred to a dietician who had a fit at the thought of my eating higher protein and lower carbs, she demanded that I filled the plate with carbs at every meal and never ate more than an ounce of protein ever again. She also promised that i was guaranteed to lose the bit if extra weight ibhad been carrying since having my youngest. So I followed that. And had a massive, massive RA flare that took years to go away. And I put on over 70lbs.

The stuff about avoiding nightshade veg is definitely bullcrap, though. And vinegar.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Which part? TDEE-20% is true. That's just simple math.
Lifting weights- ok you don't HAVE TO
Gimmicky diets - ok every now and then some does a gimmicky diet and keeps the weight off. This typically means they used the gimmick diet as a stepping stone to a new lifestyle.

You can't tell me what works regardless. That is insane at best.

I have lived through this with undiagnosed metabolic disorders and was unexplainably gaining weight, even though I was correctly measured and was told to eat x amount of calories and was even given a meal plan, which I adhered to 100% and gained weight.

Try living with metabolic and endocrine disorders and try to lose weight with your so simple reasoning and get back with me when you find it difficult or impossible to lose weight.

Don't tell me unless you have been in MY shoes, which it is so obvious that you haven't.

taso42

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Which part? TDEE-20% is true. That's just simple math.
Lifting weights- ok you don't HAVE TO
Gimmicky diets - ok every now and then some does a gimmicky diet and keeps the weight off. This typically means they used the gimmick diet as a stepping stone to a new lifestyle.

You can't tell me what works regardless. That is insane at best.

I have lived through this with undiagnosed metabolic disorders and was unexplainably gaining weight, even though I was correctly measured and was told to eat x amount of calories and was even given a meal plan, which I adhered to 100% and gained weight.

Try living with metabolic and endocrine disorders and try to lose weight with your so simple reasoning and get back with me when you find it difficult or impossible to lose weight.

Don't tell me unless you have been in MY shoes, which it is so obvious that you haven't.

TDEE stands for Total Daily Energy Expenditure.

If you consume less than that, you lose weight.

Sorry but this is true.

In your case, it sounds like your actual TDEE was lower than calculated.

If I screwed up how I balance my checkbook, does that invalidate mathematics?

PaleoPath4Lyfe

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Which part? TDEE-20% is true. That's just simple math.
Lifting weights- ok you don't HAVE TO
Gimmicky diets - ok every now and then some does a gimmicky diet and keeps the weight off. This typically means they used the gimmick diet as a stepping stone to a new lifestyle.

You can't tell me what works regardless. That is insane at best.

I have lived through this with undiagnosed metabolic disorders and was unexplainably gaining weight, even though I was correctly measured and was told to eat x amount of calories and was even given a meal plan, which I adhered to 100% and gained weight.

Try living with metabolic and endocrine disorders and try to lose weight with your so simple reasoning and get back with me when you find it difficult or impossible to lose weight.

Don't tell me unless you have been in MY shoes, which it is so obvious that you haven't.

TDEE stands for Total Daily Energy Expenditure.

If you consume less than that, you lose weight.

Sorry but this is true.

In your case, it sounds like your actual TDEE was lower than calculated.

If I screwed up how I balance my checkbook, does that invalidate mathematics?

For the last time, if you are not factoring in hormonal imbalances and such (which was my case) it doesn't matter.

My TDEE was factored by professionals and they developed a meal plan for me to follow to only watch me gain weight. I was given a hospital grade food scale, everything was weighed, measured, etc.

I was following it correctly.

And for the record, I know what TDEE stands for.

Sorry, but sometimes when there are METABOLIC AND ENDOCRINE disorders - the human body does NOT follow simple mathemathics............it is much more complex than that.

Stop telling people that its so simple when there are medical issues to consider most times.

Iron_Pheonix

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Which part? TDEE-20% is true. That's just simple math.
Lifting weights- ok you don't HAVE TO
Gimmicky diets - ok every now and then some does a gimmicky diet and keeps the weight off. This typically means they used the gimmick diet as a stepping stone to a new lifestyle.

You can't tell me what works regardless. That is insane at best.

I have lived through this with undiagnosed metabolic disorders and was unexplainably gaining weight, even though I was correctly measured and was told to eat x amount of calories and was even given a meal plan, which I adhered to 100% and gained weight.

Try living with metabolic and endocrine disorders and try to lose weight with your so simple reasoning and get back with me when you find it difficult or impossible to lose weight.

Don't tell me unless you have been in MY shoes, which it is so obvious that you haven't.

TDEE stands for Total Daily Energy Expenditure.

If you consume less than that, you lose weight.

Sorry but this is true.

In your case, it sounds like your actual TDEE was lower than calculated.

If I screwed up how I balance my checkbook, does that invalidate mathematics?

This is over simplifying things. Other factors have to be considered for instance if you have high cortisol levels you will not lose weight. Sleep, lifestyle, stress, illness etc all have to be factored in.

Acg67

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Which part? TDEE-20% is true. That's just simple math.
Lifting weights- ok you don't HAVE TO
Gimmicky diets - ok every now and then some does a gimmicky diet and keeps the weight off. This typically means they used the gimmick diet as a stepping stone to a new lifestyle.

You can't tell me what works regardless. That is insane at best.

I have lived through this with undiagnosed metabolic disorders and was unexplainably gaining weight, even though I was correctly measured and was told to eat x amount of calories and was even given a meal plan, which I adhered to 100% and gained weight.

Try living with metabolic and endocrine disorders and try to lose weight with your so simple reasoning and get back with me when you find it difficult or impossible to lose weight.

Don't tell me unless you have been in MY shoes, which it is so obvious that you haven't.

TDEE stands for Total Daily Energy Expenditure.

If you consume less than that, you lose weight.

Sorry but this is true.

In your case, it sounds like your actual TDEE was lower than calculated.

If I screwed up how I balance my checkbook, does that invalidate mathematics?

For the last time, if you are not factoring in hormonal imbalances and such (which was my case) it doesn't matter.

My TDEE was factored by professionals and they developed a meal plan for me to follow to only watch me gain weight. I was given a hospital grade food scale, everything was weighed, measured, etc.

I was following it correctly.

And for the record, I know what TDEE stands for.

Sorry, but sometimes when there are METABOLIC AND ENDOCRINE disorders - the human body does NOT follow simple mathemathics............it is much more complex than that.

Stop telling people that its so simple when there are medical issues to consider most times.

I'm sure metabolic and endocrine disorders have zero effect on the energy out part of the energy balance equation and thus that is how you magically gained while in a "deficit"

taso42

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Which part? TDEE-20% is true. That's just simple math.
Lifting weights- ok you don't HAVE TO
Gimmicky diets - ok every now and then some does a gimmicky diet and keeps the weight off. This typically means they used the gimmick diet as a stepping stone to a new lifestyle.

You can't tell me what works regardless. That is insane at best.

I have lived through this with undiagnosed metabolic disorders and was unexplainably gaining weight, even though I was correctly measured and was told to eat x amount of calories and was even given a meal plan, which I adhered to 100% and gained weight.

Try living with metabolic and endocrine disorders and try to lose weight with your so simple reasoning and get back with me when you find it difficult or impossible to lose weight.

Don't tell me unless you have been in MY shoes, which it is so obvious that you haven't.

TDEE stands for Total Daily Energy Expenditure.

If you consume less than that, you lose weight.

Sorry but this is true.

In your case, it sounds like your actual TDEE was lower than calculated.

If I screwed up how I balance my checkbook, does that invalidate mathematics?

For the last time, if you are not factoring in hormonal imbalances and such (which was my case) it doesn't matter.

My TDEE was factored by professionals and they developed a meal plan for me to follow to only watch me gain weight. I was given a hospital grade food scale, everything was weighed, measured, etc.

I was following it correctly.

And for the record, I know what TDEE stands for.

Sorry, but sometimes when there are METABOLIC AND ENDOCRINE disorders - the human body does NOT follow simple mathemathics............it is much more complex than that.

Stop telling people that its so simple when there are medical issues to consider most times.

Most times? Sorry no. For most folks, it's really just that simple.

You may well be a special snowflake, but you are in the minority. And again, just because you are a special snowflake doesn't invalidate simple tautologies like calories in minus calories out. Your calories in was just trickier to figure out.

Don't go trying to apply specifics about your special case to the general public. It makes no sense.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Which part? TDEE-20% is true. That's just simple math.
Lifting weights- ok you don't HAVE TO
Gimmicky diets - ok every now and then some does a gimmicky diet and keeps the weight off. This typically means they used the gimmick diet as a stepping stone to a new lifestyle.

You can't tell me what works regardless. That is insane at best.

I have lived through this with undiagnosed metabolic disorders and was unexplainably gaining weight, even though I was correctly measured and was told to eat x amount of calories and was even given a meal plan, which I adhered to 100% and gained weight.

Try living with metabolic and endocrine disorders and try to lose weight with your so simple reasoning and get back with me when you find it difficult or impossible to lose weight.

Don't tell me unless you have been in MY shoes, which it is so obvious that you haven't.

TDEE stands for Total Daily Energy Expenditure.

If you consume less than that, you lose weight.

Sorry but this is true.

In your case, it sounds like your actual TDEE was lower than calculated.

If I screwed up how I balance my checkbook, does that invalidate mathematics?

For the last time, if you are not factoring in hormonal imbalances and such (which was my case) it doesn't matter.

My TDEE was factored by professionals and they developed a meal plan for me to follow to only watch me gain weight. I was given a hospital grade food scale, everything was weighed, measured, etc.

I was following it correctly.

And for the record, I know what TDEE stands for.

Sorry, but sometimes when there are METABOLIC AND ENDOCRINE disorders - the human body does NOT follow simple mathemathics............it is much more complex than that.

Stop telling people that its so simple when there are medical issues to consider most times.

Most times? Sorry no. For most folks, it's really just that simple.

You may well be a special snowflake, but you are in the minority. And again, just because you are a special snowflake doesn't invalidate simple tautologies like calories in minus calories out. Your calories in was just trickier to figure out.

Don't go trying to apply specifics about your special case to the general public. It makes no sense.

I am not the only one in the world, or in this thread that has been through this. There are plenty of others that go through this and end up at a loss because Doctors don't even know what to do to begin lining the hormonal imbalances out.

The stress of going through this only compounds things and makes weight loss even more impossible.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

show previous quotes

Exercise, eat healthy. It is really just that simple. TDEE -20% and lift weights. Don't subscribe to gimicky diets, they may have short term loss but are not sustainable over a long term.

Sorry, but this is simply not true for everyone.

Which part? TDEE-20% is true. That's just simple math.
Lifting weights- ok you don't HAVE TO
Gimmicky diets - ok every now and then some does a gimmicky diet and keeps the weight off. This typically means they used the gimmick diet as a stepping stone to a new lifestyle.

You can't tell me what works regardless. That is insane at best.

I have lived through this with undiagnosed metabolic disorders and was unexplainably gaining weight, even though I was correctly measured and was told to eat x amount of calories and was even given a meal plan, which I adhered to 100% and gained weight.

Try living with metabolic and endocrine disorders and try to lose weight with your so simple reasoning and get back with me when you find it difficult or impossible to lose weight.

Don't tell me unless you have been in MY shoes, which it is so obvious that you haven't.

TDEE stands for Total Daily Energy Expenditure.

If you consume less than that, you lose weight.

Sorry but this is true.

In your case, it sounds like your actual TDEE was lower than calculated.

If I screwed up how I balance my checkbook, does that invalidate mathematics?

This is over simplifying things. Other factors have to be considered for instance if you have high cortisol levels you will not lose weight. Sleep, lifestyle, stress, illness etc all have to be factored in.

Yes, these 2 are way over simplifying like they know everything and think its just so simple. Maybe for them, but it hasn't been for me.

High Cortisol
Low Leptin
Insulin Resistance
Thyroid issues with T3, T4 and the conversion
Too much estrogen, converting to too much testosterone
Low progestrone
FH, FSH and Lt hormones were all out of normal ranges also

I was a walking hormonal nightmare in which I would barely eat anything and would not lose weight.

Throw in insomnia due to high cortisol levels and it just compounds matters even worse.

You will never get Taso and ACG to understand these things because they are so trapped in the simplicity of CICO works for everyone and it DOESN'T.

TR0berts

I believe too many people don't fully understand what the "Calories out" portion of the equation really means. "Calories out" takes into account all the factors your body has/uses to burn Calories - including hormones, sleep, stress, etc. The only issue is that for people with hormonal and/or metabolic disorders - or whatever - their "Calories out" can't be measured simply by weight, age, sex, and activity level like most people. These people need additional medical guidance to figure out just how many Calories they use. Regardless of how your "Calories out" gets calculated, it still ends up being "Calories in vs. Calories out." It's just more difficult for some to determine their "Calories out" and a simple online calculator won't fit them.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Its not an excuse, it is a REALLY REAL REALITY.

And I never said the majority..............I said MOST people that try the whole simplistic formula of CICO and it doesn't work, needs to get evaluated by a medical professional, preferrably a specialist that knows what to do to get them where they need to be.

I eat about triple of what I used to and I able to lose weight. The difference is the majority of what I eat is high fat, protein, very calorie dense food. I can easily eat more than 2.000 calories of food on a ketogenic way of eating and lose weight.

If I follow the whole eat whatever you want in moderation and stay within these calories and you will lose weight, my weight loss stops and I begin to gain.

TR0berts

Sorry...

I meant to add that, in addition to it being more difficult to determine the "Calories out," the people with certain medical conditions may need to have specific medicinal and/or dietary concerns to assist in getting their "Calories out" to a "normal" level.

roiLEI1554

i don't believe it's a good idea. by going on the ketone diet, you might lose weight but you'll also be missing out on a lot of dietary fiber and vitamins you can't get from the foods allowed (getting nutrients from food is not the same as getting it from supplements!).
also, forcing the body to use protein as energy also means you'll be excreting more nitrogen and hurt your kidneys. Also, too much protein inhibits calcium absorption.
PLUS, most protein foods that we consume (U.S.) are high in cholesterol and saturated fats. That's like an early death just waiting to happen.

Do, uh, don't do it I guess :huh:

SanteMulberry

The Standard American Diet is VERY high in carbs (particularly sugar--a calorie dense, nutritionally empty carbohydrate) and leads to excess body fat and ill health. Bad teeth, bad skin, poor upper and lower respiratory health, etc. can be attributed, at least in part to sugar and starch consumption. BUT, that does not mean that we should restrict carbs to a very low level and think that we will be blessed with a reduction in body fat AND good health. Everyone is different of course, but something to think about before launching onto a ketogenic diet is that you will lose the "muscle sparing" effect of carbohydrates. A loss of lean body mass is NOT healthy in anyone's reckoning. Lower carb diets (those that keep to around 100 grams of carbohydrate) have the same appetite suppression characteristics as ketogenic diets but avoid the downside of ketogenic diets. They usually come with slower weight loss but a slower weight loss is usually more sustainable than a quick weight loss. Those on a diet with carbohydrates consumed in proportion to energy expenditure have a greater tendency to retain LBM and thus are healthier in the long run.

Iron_Pheonix

i don't believe it's a good idea. by going on the ketone diet, you might lose weight but you'll also be missing out on a lot of dietary fiber and vitamins you can't get from the foods allowed (getting nutrients from food is not the same as getting it from supplements!).
also, forcing the body to use protein as energy also means you'll be excreting more nitrogen and hurt your kidneys. Also, too much protein inhibits calcium absorption.
PLUS, most protein foods that we consume (U.S.) are high in cholesterol and saturated fats. That's like an early death just waiting to happen.

Do, uh, don't do it I guess :huh:

Lol unfortunately a lot of what you just said isn't right

BaconMD

Guys just ignore taso and acg. They think they have all the answers and aren't willing to discuss anything unless a peer reviewed study is attached to it. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away.

LMAO!

Don't let anyone tell you you're not a funny guy.

Admiral_Derp

Those guys and their peer-reviewed science. Next thing you know they'll be arguing against a geocentric universe. Just because some guy in a lab who gets paid to study things comes to a logical, well-thought conclusion, and then has that conclusion checked, and double-checked by a bunch of over-educated hunks, that's no reason at all to assume you can quote what they say as any kind of truth!

Buncha hocus pocus if you ask me!

Yes, but it was a fun straw man to knock over.

CoachReddy

show previous quotes

Guys just ignore taso and acg. They think they have all the answers and aren't willing to discuss anything unless a peer reviewed study is attached to it. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away.

LMAO!

Don't let anyone tell you you're not a funny guy.

I aim to please.

Acg67

Guys just ignore taso and acg. They think they have all the answers and aren't willing to discuss anything unless a peer reviewed study is attached to it. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away.

Spartan - thanks so much for the info, and yes it I'm totally going to dive into the rabbit hole. Sounds fascinating.

Better to make stuff up and post livestrong and mercola links, right?

mmapags

Guys just ignore taso and acg. They think they have all the answers and aren't willing to discuss anything unless a peer reviewed study is attached to it. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away.

Now that's rich! Talking like you think there are a bunch of people that are going to ignore anyone on your say so. :laugh:


So let's see. A couple of days ago you are lumping people together as cliques and calling them lackys because they didn't agree with you. Now you want a couple of people to be ignored because they don't agree with you (Acg67, you are the winner! You made both groups) What is the common denominator here? (besides Acg67 lol)

CoachReddy

show previous quotes

Guys just ignore taso and acg. They think they have all the answers and aren't willing to discuss anything unless a peer reviewed study is attached to it. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away.

Spartan - thanks so much for the info, and yes it I'm totally going to dive into the rabbit hole. Sounds fascinating.

Better to make stuff up and post livestrong and mercola links, right?

then to blindly follow "science"? both are flawed.

again... leeches...

CoachReddy

show previous quotes

Guys just ignore taso and acg. They think they have all the answers and aren't willing to discuss anything unless a peer reviewed study is attached to it. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away.

Now that's rich! Talking like you think there are a bunch of people that are going to ignore anyone on your say so. :laugh:


So let's see. A couple of days ago you are lumping people together as cliques and calling them lackys because they didn't agree with you. Now you want a couple of people to be ignored because they don't agree with you (Acg67, you are the winner! You made both groups) What is the common denominator here? (besides Acg67 lol)

honestly the problem is this - we were having a really good and interesting conversation about keto vs paleo vs normal carb diets and taso, acg and you came in and blew it all to **** with your TDEE, cal in/out, BS that you spout in every thread. We get it. That's what you believe. We hear you. Now let us talk about other things without having to insert yourselves into every conversation.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

show previous quotes

Guys just ignore taso and acg. They think they have all the answers and aren't willing to discuss anything unless a peer reviewed study is attached to it. Maybe if we ignore them they'll go away.

Now that's rich! Talking like you think there are a bunch of people that are going to ignore anyone on your say so. :laugh:


So let's see. A couple of days ago you are lumping people together as cliques and calling them lackys because they didn't agree with you. Now you want a couple of people to be ignored because they don't agree with you (Acg67, you are the winner! You made both groups) What is the common denominator here? (besides Acg67 lol)

honestly the problem is this - we were having a really good and interesting conversation about keto vs paleo vs normal carb diets and taso, acg and you came in and blew it all to **** with your TDEE, cal in/out, BS that you spout in every thread. We get it. That's what you believe. We hear you. Now let us talk about other things without having to insert yourselves into every conversation.

Exactly.