Toxins
Replies
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also I'm not a biologist.
Yeah. That much is obvious. Maybe you shouldn't be giving people advice about mysterious "toxins" you can't identify and telling them how to get rid of them by magic cleanses whose function you don't know.
I've never claimed to be a biologist.
I did identify the toxins if you'd actually read my posts and links instead of just spouting crap.
You didn't name a single chemical in this entire thread.0 -
So let's see if we have this correct. We have an acutal professional biologist posting in this thread. He has multiple degrees and works in the field. And we have a Beachbody coach who is also a muscical theatre actor and then another guy who get's in drunken arguments with studies he doesn't understand or have a working knowledge of the content and had a profile pic up for a couple if weeks of him holding a bottle of booze on a health a fitness site who are disagreeing with him?? Riiiiight!0
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I need to cleanse my brain from threads like this...0
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I have seen this question asked a few times but never answered, so I figured I would just go ahead and ask directly. When people are talking about removing toxins in the body via cleanses, juicing, or eating clean...exactly what are these toxins being removed? For the most part "toxins" seems to be more of a buzzword than anything, but I would love to find out more about them if there are indeed toxins being removed so I can understand the process.
thx!
There are exotoxins and mycotoxins that can develop in the bloodstream, there is also candida. A green juice fast helps with this stuff, and straight fasting.
Reminds me of when people say, "You don't need to detox your body, your body does it naturally." Think of a water filter it cleans out our water. So does that mean you're going to put motor oil in it because "it filters automatically?" It's a pretty idiotic statement.
Of course our organs are constantly functioning. If you over load it, it will take more time for it to do it's job. If you stop putting stress on it, it can finish the process completely.
Pure biology fail.
Neither exotoxins or mycotoxins "develop". They are produced by bacteria and molds, respectively. The treatments for each are very different and if you have any concern for accumulation of these in your blood stream the proper treatment is NOT a green juice fast.
Your body is not a water filter, to try to reduce it to that. Well, that IS a pretty idiotic statement.
You're going to challenge me on the word "Develop?" Come on... These micro forms produce acidic wastes when they ingest and giest(ferment) energy from the electrons from carbohydrates, proteins, and fats.
The juice fast was about candida.
It's pretty idiotic if you don't understand the acid/base buffering system. So the idiocy isn't on my part.
Obviously the fail wasn't on my part.
"ingest and geist energy"? What are you trying to say?
If the juice fast was about candida why then mention exotoxins. Candida produces no exotoxins.
Your attempts at obfuscation by pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo are not going to work.
If you want to sugget that your green juice fast a) overcomes acid-base homeostasis b) that these changes are sufficiently long to eradicate candida you are going to need a little bit more than the insults.
Because, you know with my very very very poor biology education I only learned that the major system of pH homeostasis is based on respiratory rates. I'd love to understand how an ingested tea/juice/cleanse/whatever overcomes the respiratory compensation and bicarbonate systems.
You know I love it when you get all sexy geekified!
Seconded!0 -
I don't cleanse.. or juice or detox.. although my boyfriend has us sit in a sauna one every week or two to "sweat out the toxins" Eh whatever.. I get to sit in a sauna rather then do cardio.. that's called win win. lol.. Anyway..
Chemicals are bad for you.. So is a lot of the foods you eat.. Cleanse is a buzz word for profit companies made up in order to sell a product that is somehow designed to remove these bad things from your body. Really all you need to do is eat veggies and good quality low fat/ non-chemical soaked foods. Your body is what actually removes toxins from your system.
How's that answer? LOL
Ah damn.. i'll be toxic for life..Since people keep on asking to name these toxins. Here is 84 of them....
Alcohol0 -
Since people keep on asking to name these toxins. Here is 84 of them....
Acesulfame K
Acetone
Acetaldehyde
Alcohol
Alkyl-phenol Ethoxylades
Alpha Hydroxy Acid
Aluminum
Ammonium Glycolate
Ammonium Persulfate
Aspartame
Bentonite (Clay)
Benzene
Benzoic Acid
Benzoic / Benzyl / Benzene
BHA - BHT
Bronopol
Butylparaben
Carboxymethylcellulose
Coal Tar Dyes
Cocamidopropyl Betaine
Coumarin
D&C Yellow 11
DEA: Diethanolamine
Ethylacrylate
Hydroabietyl Alcohol
TEA: Tea, Triethanolamine
NDEA
TEA
Diacetyl
Dibutyl phthalate (DBP)
Dimethicone
Disodium EDTA
Elastin
Fluoride
Formaldehyde
Fragrances (Synthetic)
Glycolic Acid
GMO/Genetically Modified Organism
High Fructose Corn Syrup/HFCS
Hydrogenated/Partially Hydrogenated Oils
Hydroquinone
Hydroxymethylcellulose
Isobutylparaben
Isopropyl Alcohol
Kajoic Acid
Kaolin (Clay)
Lacquer
Lanolin
Lye
Magnesium Stearate
Methylisothiazoline, or MIT
Mineral Oil
Monosodium Glutamate/MSG
Neotame
Nitrate - Nitrite
Nitrosamines
Olestra
Paraffin
PEG Stearates
PEG
PEG-12 Distearate
PEG-80 Sorbitan Laurate
Petroleum
Phenoxyethanol
Phthalates
Polyethylene Glycol /PEG
Polypropylene
Polyquaternium-7
Potassium Bromate
Propylene Glycol
Propylparaben
Quaternium-7, 15, 31, 60 etc.
Sodium Chloride
Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate
Sodium Nitrite
Soy
SLS (Sodium Lauryl Sulphate)
SLES (Sodium Laureth Sulfate)
Stearalkonium Chloride
Sulfites
Talc
Toluene
Triclosan
Zinc Stearate
Now, to answer the rest of the question..how does a cleanse get rid of these, and how does it do so? Assuming that these of course fall into the definitions of toxins being used in the first place of course,0 -
I have seen this question asked a few times but never answered, so I figured I would just go ahead and ask directly. When people are talking about removing toxins in the body via cleanses, juicing, or eating clean...exactly what are these toxins being removed? For the most part "toxins" seems to be more of a buzzword than anything, but I would love to find out more about them if there are indeed toxins being removed so I can understand the process.
thx!
There are exotoxins and mycotoxins that can develop in the bloodstream, there is also candida. A green juice fast helps with this stuff, and straight fasting.
Reminds me of when people say, "You don't need to detox your body, your body does it naturally." Think of a water filter it cleans out our water. So does that mean you're going to put motor oil in it because "it filters automatically?" It's a pretty idiotic statement.
Of course our organs are constantly functioning. If you over load it, it will take more time for it to do it's job. If you stop putting stress on it, it can finish the process completely.
Pure biology fail.
Neither exotoxins or mycotoxins "develop". They are produced by bacteria and molds, respectively. The treatments for each are very different and if you have any concern for accumulation of these in your blood stream the proper treatment is NOT a green juice fast.
Your body is not a water filter, to try to reduce it to that. Well, that IS a pretty idiotic statement.
You're going to challenge me on the word "Develop?" Come on... These micro forms produce acidic wastes when they ingest and giest(ferment) energy from the electrons from carbohydrates, proteins, and fats.
The juice fast was about candida.
It's pretty idiotic if you don't understand the acid/base buffering system. So the idiocy isn't on my part.
Obviously the fail wasn't on my part.
"ingest and geist energy"? What are you trying to say?
If the juice fast was about candida why then mention exotoxins. Candida produces no exotoxins.
Your attempts at obfuscation by pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo are not going to work.
If you want to sugget that your green juice fast a) overcomes acid-base homeostasis b) that these changes are sufficiently long to eradicate candida you are going to need a little bit more than the insults.
Because, you know with my very very very poor biology education I only learned that the major system of pH homeostasis is based on respiratory rates. I'd love to understand how an ingested tea/juice/cleanse/whatever overcomes the respiratory compensation and bicarbonate systems.
Candida produces acidic waste produces which can get stored in tissue, which can lead to various complications.
toxin (from Ancient Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms.
poisons are substances that cause disturbances to organisms.
So if candida produce acidic waste a substance produced within living cells or organisms(toxin) and it causes disturbance to us (organism) then candida = ???
Candida feeds on sugar, protein sources are acidic. Greens have the lowest amount of sugar, so you're starving the candida.
About the acid buffering systems. Tired o explain this to people.
Quiz:: what happens when the blood is constantly being buffered with magnesium from muscles and calcium from bones, when thosAe sources gets low and the blood still needs to be buffered what happens???
you started with the insults, so don't complain if they come back at you.
Actually the real issue with candida is mycotoxin production not acidosis. Acidosis regulation is, a you mention, a fully buffered system - I don't really see why you are focusing on candidas? Do you have a specific reason to focus on this yeast? Been readding to many fad diet sites on alternative medicine? There are several thousand different yeasts and molds that we live with in more or less symbiosis - why does this one upset you so much?
Anyway - let's talk about those mycotoxins and acid wastes for a sec. The real issue of mycotoxins is not their pH but their metabolic activity in the liver. pH changes are generally well regulated by systemic changes and the simple act of exercising, eating or having sex creates a pH imbalance that is then restabilized. Are you suggesting that these activities are prone to create cancida related issues. Acid variations in the blood are relatively small (a pH delta of 0.2 or smaller) and one cannot extrapolate pH dependent growth seen in vitro to pH influenced growth in a systemic infection. When I grew cell cultures (you know I know very little about biology...) and we had mold infections and simply buffering a serum solution (BSA at 5% carboxylic) to a constant pH never ever got rid of an infection.
Standard lab procedure to address is fluconazole - if you are concerned with an infection, I suggest you discuss a treatment.
What acidic wastes from cancidas do you think are "stored" in tissue?
If you also concerned about an acidic environment promoting yeast growth, I would suggest that you look into the digestive effects fo the diarrhea you will get from your cleanse. Guess what that does to your digestive system (yep, welcome to acidosis).
The idea that one is somehow "starving" a yeast by doing a cleanse is again a major biology comprehension issue - do you think that your body can function with zero carobhydrates and that an infection, if present, will not take on its opportunistic load?0 -
So let's see if we have this correct. We have an acutal professional biologist posting in this thread. He has multiple degrees and works in the field. And we have a Beachbody coach who is also a muscical theatre actor and then another guy who get's in drunken arguments with studies he doesn't understand or have a working knowledge of the content and had a profile pic up for a couple if weeks of him holding a bottle of booze on a health a fitness site who are disagreeing with him?? Riiiiight!
I do understand the studies, you don't. You guys don't, that's the issue. How many of you actually do work in a lab and write reports on your conclusions in labs? Thank you
I don't care if someone disagrees with me. Depends how they go about it, if they're respectful then it's all good, i they're not, then it's not all good. Like the time that one guy said something to you and you got all defensive and said "that's uncalled for"
I noticed that all the groupies listen to their groupie leader and can't think for themselves.
Oh yeah pal, you got it all figured out and the rest of us are just groupies. Riiight!0 -
I have seen this question asked a few times but never answered, so I figured I would just go ahead and ask directly. When people are talking about removing toxins in the body via cleanses, juicing, or eating clean...exactly what are these toxins being removed? For the most part "toxins" seems to be more of a buzzword than anything, but I would love to find out more about them if there are indeed toxins being removed so I can understand the process.
thx!
There are exotoxins and mycotoxins that can develop in the bloodstream, there is also candida. A green juice fast helps with this stuff, and straight fasting.
Reminds me of when people say, "You don't need to detox your body, your body does it naturally." Think of a water filter it cleans out our water. So does that mean you're going to put motor oil in it because "it filters automatically?" It's a pretty idiotic statement.
Of course our organs are constantly functioning. If you over load it, it will take more time for it to do it's job. If you stop putting stress on it, it can finish the process completely.
I eat in the off season 6000 calories a day.
In a recent blood test my liver/kidney/thyroid etc were described as perfect.
Unless you have an ill functioning organ, there is NO reason to detox.0 -
Haha! This is great. Well done.
(This post was satire, right?)
You know we had a bad start fella but recently I've agreed with everything you say.
Guys, really?!!?0 -
I have seen this question asked a few times but never answered, so I figured I would just go ahead and ask directly. When people are talking about removing toxins in the body via cleanses, juicing, or eating clean...exactly what are these toxins being removed? For the most part "toxins" seems to be more of a buzzword than anything, but I would love to find out more about them if there are indeed toxins being removed so I can understand the process.
thx!
There are exotoxins and mycotoxins that can develop in the bloodstream, there is also candida. A green juice fast helps with this stuff, and straight fasting.
Reminds me of when people say, "You don't need to detox your body, your body does it naturally." Think of a water filter it cleans out our water. So does that mean you're going to put motor oil in it because "it filters automatically?" It's a pretty idiotic statement.
Of course our organs are constantly functioning. If you over load it, it will take more time for it to do it's job. If you stop putting stress on it, it can finish the process completely.
I eat in the off season 6000 calories a day.
In a recent blood test my liver/kidney/thyroid etc were described as perfect.
Unless you have an ill functioning organ, there is NO reason to detox.
Prefect to what standards? My doctor told me my blood is good too, but I don't believe it until I see it. They are more likely comparing to most people. Most people aren't optimal.
For example my kidney flow through rate was at the maximum of what they could read.
You are making you're own rules up here in terms of standards - standards are set for typical variance between people, where a vast majority of the population stand.
So I stand, here with real bloodwork tests showing a heavily taxed body working fine... what evidence do you have?
All I can see a cleanse doing is BAD. Removing bacteria from the gut from digestion, the natural flora and fauna.
As for increased acid in the blood - show me something that shows an altered level of acid is bad? I can show you it isn't...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10722779
Ps
Candida is needed for digestion, it is not bad unless it gets unbalanced.
Candida is a type of yeast, which is naturally and normally occurring in the intestinal tract. Healthy candida levels are vital for proper nutrient absorption and to protect the intestinal tract from other infections.0 -
For example my kidney flow through rate was at the maximum of what they could read.
You are making you're own rules up here in terms of standards - standards are set for typical variance between people, where a vast majority of the population stand.
Ahh Matt, I see you have not previously met PU. This is his MO. Good luck trying to make sense of it!
Let me make introductions. Matt, PU. PU, Matt.0 -
Now, to answer the rest of the question..how does a cleanse get rid of these, and how does it do so? Assuming that these of course fall into the definitions of toxins being used in the first place of course,
I partially agree with you but not fully. Maybe we're misunderstanding each other. As I said to taso in regards to your post, you can't constantly pollute your body and expect to be no stress on your organs. They do need a break from time to time. If you want to call this a cleanse or whatever so be it. I am more speaking along the lines of fasting.
I am not talking about pills and crap like the master cleanse stuff.
Ignoring the insinuation that you have made to me before on another thread that people who disagree with you have made no progress over the years, that you also made here and edited out..yes, I saw that.....I want to ask a legit question here Pu as to be honest I get totally confused with where you are coming from.
In other threads, you are all about 'calories' and it does not matter what you eat and that you can eat "junk" if you want and that losing weight is the biggest determinant of health markers and is all you need to worry about. Now here you are saying that when you pollute your body you need to give it a break. So, what about if you eat a balanced diet of mainly nutritious foods. Do you still think that your body needs a break?
If so, what would that break 'look' like? You were seeming to argue 'for' cleanses and detoxes by dismissing the thread that was linked that said that they were not necessary, but now seem to be agreeing with it and going down the lines of fasting. Or maybe you did not read the information in the link before dismissing it. Could you clarify and explain what the fast would look like.
Clarity here may save the need to feel like strawman arguments are useful or relevant and save the need for the debate to be made at the acute level.0 -
For example my kidney flow through rate was at the maximum of what they could read.
You are making you're own rules up here in terms of standards - standards are set for typical variance between people, where a vast majority of the population stand.
Ahh Matt, I see you have not previously met PU. This is his MO. Good luck trying to make sense of it!
Let me make introductions. Matt, PU. PU, Matt.
This is science. As i mentioned above, if you have a bad data set(samples) then what you're testing against the data set won't be accurate.
P.S. I known matt for a long time.
Lets agree to disagree
))
You find fault in the medical establishments agreed variance levels, I don't.
Tell me tho, if you do a cleanse, how can one establish the positive effects in terms of mortality and general healthy, and same again without. How do you establish your cleanse has done anything?0 -
It couldn't possibly be that we all just disagree with you, could it?0
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Bump...dis gunn be good!0
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It couldn't possibly be that we all just disagree with you, could it?
Pu, I have to say that the people you listed are pretty independent thinkers who are good at interpreting scientific evidence. They are all evidence based thinkers from what I have seen from them on these forums. Pu, you are on my FL and I have no issues with you at all, but I think you are wrong in your interpretation as to why this group of people is debating you on this topic.
It is possible that the scientific evidence is leading their conclusions and, because they are all using broad analysis of broad evidence on the issue, they are arriving at the same conclusion.0 -
Since people keep on asking to name these toxins. Here is 84 of them....
Acesulfame K
Acetone
Acetaldehyde
Alcohol
Alkyl-phenol Ethoxylades
Alpha Hydroxy Acid
Aluminum
Ammonium Glycolate
Ammonium Persulfate
Aspartame
Bentonite (Clay)
Benzene
Benzoic Acid
Benzoic / Benzyl / Benzene
BHA - BHT
Bronopol
Butylparaben
Carboxymethylcellulose
Coal Tar Dyes
Cocamidopropyl Betaine
Coumarin
D&C Yellow 11
DEA: Diethanolamine
Ethylacrylate
Hydroabietyl Alcohol
TEA: Tea, Triethanolamine
NDEA
TEA
Diacetyl
Dibutyl phthalate (DBP)
Dimethicone
Disodium EDTA
Elastin
Fluoride
Formaldehyde
Fragrances (Synthetic)
Glycolic Acid
GMO/Genetically Modified Organism
High Fructose Corn Syrup/HFCS
Hydrogenated/Partially Hydrogenated Oils
Hydroquinone
Hydroxymethylcellulose
Isobutylparaben
Isopropyl Alcohol
Kajoic Acid
Kaolin (Clay)
Lacquer
Lanolin
Lye
Magnesium Stearate
Methylisothiazoline, or MIT
Mineral Oil
Monosodium Glutamate/MSG
Neotame
Nitrate - Nitrite
Nitrosamines
Olestra
Paraffin
PEG Stearates
PEG
PEG-12 Distearate
PEG-80 Sorbitan Laurate
Petroleum
Phenoxyethanol
Phthalates
Polyethylene Glycol /PEG
Polypropylene
Polyquaternium-7
Potassium Bromate
Propylene Glycol
Propylparaben
Quaternium-7, 15, 31, 60 etc.
Sodium Chloride
Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate
Sodium Nitrite
Soy
SLS (Sodium Lauryl Sulphate)
SLES (Sodium Laureth Sulfate)
Stearalkonium Chloride
Sulfites
Talc
Toluene
Triclosan
Zinc Stearate
Thank you for posting these. I will look into them individually as time allows.
Now then. Any studies that show the levels of these toxins prior to a cleanse, after a cleanse, and then a few weeks after the cleanse? I admit that I am skeptical.0 -
I love this thread even more now.0
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Do you really think you are important enough that people have to form cliques to disagree with you??:laugh: :laugh:
The plain fact is you come on here are argue about nonsense. You have posted studies that have supported the opposite of what you were asserting. You have argued with people here while drunk, which you admitted.
People disagree with you because, the vast majority of the time, the only person you make any sense to is yourself. If you think there are a bunch of people ganging up on you because they are a clique, you really ought to see someone about those voices you hear in your head. You've earned your reputation.0 -
Which one is the leader? I'm just an innocent bystander, but I enjoy sticking my nose into matters that are none of my business. It's kind of a hobby.0
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While I appreciate your candor and clarity, I find I am at a loss for words. Anyone who disagrees with you and is of a like mind is acting like they are in high school and is "ganging up on you'? Really?
Also, reread what you wrote - you have no issue with someone until they disagree with you?
I like to think that I ask you questions in a reasonable and polite way in general, despite insinuations from you that could be deemed as personal attacks. Obviously you do not see it that way based on my observations above.0 -
While I appreciate your candor and clarity, I find I am at a loss for words. Anyone who disagrees with you and is of a like mind is acting like they are in high school and is "ganging up on you'? Really?
Also, reread what you wrote - you have no issue with someone until they disagree with you?
I like to think that I ask you questions in a reasonable and polite way in general, despite insinuations from you that could be deemed as personal attacks. Obviously you do not see it that way based on my observations above.
Sara, this was a great cover up.
Are we still on schedule for tomorrow at 6pm for the "how we will collectively disagree with Pu" team meeting we had set up last month? I'll bring the juicer.0 -
Sara, this was a great cover up.
Are we still on schedule for tomorrow at 6pm for the "how we will collectively disagree with Pu" team meeting we had set up last month? I'll bring the juicer.
I'll bring the tequila!0 -
Ilikewherethisthreadisgoing.jpg0
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It isn't school.
They have given meta analysed studies, you have given us a cut and paste of chemicals and bacteria in the gut.
Think about it.0 -
hummm... good question!0
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haha this. And at the same time, I'm tickled pink here being compared to the people on my list who make sense haha. I think we're missing some people though...thanks go out to....It couldn't possibly be that we all just disagree with you, could it?
Also what kind of friends are you, you didn't even tell me I was getting talked about on a thread I haven't read...I even missed the "how we will collectively disagree with Pu" meetings...I hear there was suppose to be a juicer and tequila and everything
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It's a shame people can't offer their opinions without being shot down in flames.
Rude.
I'm not a scientest/scholar - but when I stay away from as many chemicals/ additives as I can- via environment and food for an extended period of time I feel better, have more energy and clarity.
I think this is what PU is getting at.
Most of the people on MFP aren't looking for a thesis - it's just a conversation.0 -
It isn't school.
They have given meta analysed studies, you have given us a cut and paste of chemicals and bacteria in the gut.
Think about it.
Thank you Matt! A little sense and reality check.0
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