Toxins

icmuse

[/quote]

if you have Lemmiwinks in your colon, then a cleanse may be useful... otherwise, not so much.

thus, Lemmiwinks may be considered a toxin.


[/quote]

^^^ this, the best colon cleanse ever! :drinker:

quirkytizzy

^^^ this, the best colon cleanse ever! :drinker:

This is certainly the CUTEST cleanse ever! Seriously, I want to cuddle him.

CoderGal

It's a shame people can't offer their opinions without being shot down in flames.

Rude.

I'm not a scientest/scholar - but when I stay away from as many chemicals/ additives as I can- via environment and food for an extended period of time I feel better, have more energy and clarity.

I think this is what PU is getting at.
Most of the people on MFP aren't looking for a thesis - it's just a conversation.

I'm all for conversations. I just don't like it when people make absolutely no sense, state the opposite of what has been proven like it's the be all end all when the blind could be listening, and then back it up with info that has been repeatedly modified by the poster that contains many loop holes, speak on behalf of other people that are not present, take the information they said back, do not listen to the information presented, and change the subject, etc etc. I never know what 'PU is getting at' :laugh:

CoderGal

It couldn't possibly be that we all just disagree with you, could it?

Pu, I have to say that the people you listed are pretty independent thinkers who are good at interpreting scientific evidence. They are all evidence based thinkers from what I have seen from them on these forums. Pu, you are on my FL and I have no issues with you at all, but I think you are wrong in your interpretation as to why this group of people is debating you on this topic.

It is possible that the scientific evidence is leading their conclusions and, because they are all using broad analysis of broad evidence on the issue, they are arriving at the same conclusion.

What can I say I'm just bumping this because it's awesome and I want to sit back and appreciate the compliment because I was late coming in. :P

myofibril

Most of the people on MFP aren't looking for a thesis - it's just a conversation.

What a great way of putting it.

When the discourse becomes more focused on justifying one's own biases rather than illuminating the truth everyone loses...I am as guilty of this as anyone else.

twinketta

It's the "monetary toxins" that the companies are trying to rid you of.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

For sure!!!

Sarauk2sf

It's a shame people can't offer their opinions without being shot down in flames.

Rude.

I'm not a scientest/scholar - but when I stay away from as many chemicals/ additives as I can- via environment and food for an extended period of time I feel better, have more energy and clarity.

I think this is what PU is getting at.
Most of the people on MFP aren't looking for a thesis - it's just a conversation.

When an opinion is stated as fact, then people are well within their rights, and in fact, should, call into question those 'opinions'. Would you prefer it to have misinformation spread instead? Disagreeing =/= rude.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

Ilikewherethisthreadisgoing.jpg

Matt_Wild

It's a shame people can't offer their opinions without being shot down in flames.

Rude.

I'm not a scientest/scholar - but when I stay away from as many chemicals/ additives as I can- via environment and food for an extended period of time I feel better, have more energy and clarity.

I think this is what PU is getting at.
Most of the people on MFP aren't looking for a thesis - it's just a conversation.

I'm all for conversations. I just don't like it when people make absolutely no sense, state the opposite of what has been proven like it's the be all end all when the blind could be listening, and then back it up with info that has been repeatedly modified by the poster that contains many loop holes, speak on behalf of other people that are not present, take the information they said back, do not listen to the information presented, and change the subject, etc etc. I never know what 'PU is getting at' :laugh:

It isn't about being shot down.

It is META ANALYZED studies vs someones opinion.

If you appreciate what a meta analyzed study takes into account, it is basing an opinion on dozens of studies, not something one cannot quantify in anyway.

I've already asked for a quantifiable result of someone doing a cleanse gains rather than 'they felt better' (since placebo is a great thing, to justify ones actions).

CoderGal

Ilikewherethisthreadisgoing.jpg

Yep. The medical community is widely in agreement on the futility, if not outright danger of detoxing, and yet this thread has to completely derail because, in the words of one person who has self proclaimed himself has one of the "6 most educated people on MFP," a few people have formed a "clique" against him. Wow. Just wow.

I find it exceptionally entertaining that I'm part of the clique but do not know everyone in it :laugh:

CoderGal

It couldn't possibly be that we all just disagree with you, could it?

I would agree with you if you all weren't on each others friend's list and i rarely find you guys solo, always in pairs or more.

So you agree with him then...because I have no idea who acg67 is :laugh:

Sarauk2sf

It couldn't possibly be that we all just disagree with you, could it?

I would agree with you if you all weren't on each others friend's list and i rarely find you guys solo, always in pairs or more.

Check the threads I post on...you will find SideSteel, Acg and the others are not even commenting the majority of them. Plus, the fact that we have similar outlooks may have something to do with the fact that we are on each others FLs. Also, have you seen the size of some of our FL's? It's not exactly an exclusive club you know.

Sarauk2sf

I wrote this on my comment to sidesteel with a ETA: but people already commented and this part didn't paste.

This is what i don't understand. You can say, "you're wrong." that's easy. I always stated my views, pathways, biological systems.

Do you or anyone else who state I am wrong, understand the acid/base system in the body, the microforms i mentioned, the way acid foods affect us and our healthy?

I haven't seen you or anyone else talk abuot the topic at hand. I am assuming you guys don't know anything about it, yet say "you're wrong." that's what i don't get.

What does that have to do with the insinuations and personal attacks that you made? I also asked to clarify your stance a whie back, but you must have been too busy feeling ganged up on to notice it.

ETA:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clique

Clique: a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes

While I disagree with the word 'exclusive'...actually, the rest of the definition is correct, so OK, I am guilty. I have similar views to the people I am allegedly in a 'clique' with. It pretty much describes friends, work colleagues, acquiescence at your local wine club, gym buddies, your classmates etc.

cmeiron

When an opinion is stated as fact, then people are well within their rights, and in fact, should, call into question those 'opinions'. Would you prefer it to have misinformation spread instead? Disagreeing =/= rude.

^^^^ QFT

WinnerVictorious

i'd like to be part of a cliche.

however, i don't want to be part of the "We're all different" or "What works for you might not work for somebody else" cliches. those are sort of tired now and i'd like to become a member of an up-and-coming cliche. something along the lines of "If man made it, don't eat it" or "Obstacles are just hurdles to be overcome" would work pretty well for me.

so if any cliches out there are recruiting new members, call me.





(note to mods - it's funny because the OP used the wrong word. i'm not correcting his grammar or spelling, just pointing out how typing the wrong word can create unintended humor)

Sarauk2sf

Now, to answer the rest of the question..how does a cleanse get rid of these, and how does it do so? Assuming that these of course fall into the definitions of toxins being used in the first place of course,

I partially agree with you but not fully. Maybe we're misunderstanding each other. As I said to taso in regards to your post, you can't constantly pollute your body and expect to be no stress on your organs. They do need a break from time to time. If you want to call this a cleanse or whatever so be it. I am more speaking along the lines of fasting.

I am not talking about pills and crap like the master cleanse stuff.

Ignoring the insinuation that you have made to me before on another thread that people who disagree with you have made no progress over the years, that you also made here and edited out..yes, I saw that.....I want to ask a legit question here Pu as to be honest I get totally confused with where you are coming from.

In other threads, you are all about 'calories' and it does not matter what you eat and that you can eat "junk" if you want and that losing weight is the biggest determinant of health markers and is all you need to worry about. Now here you are saying that when you pollute your body you need to give it a break. So, what about if you eat a balanced diet of mainly nutritious foods. Do you still think that your body needs a break?

If so, what would that break 'look' like? You were seeming to argue 'for' cleanses and detoxes by dismissing the thread that was linked that said that they were not necessary, but now seem to be agreeing with it and going down the lines of fasting. Or maybe you did not read the information in the link before dismissing it. Could you clarify and explain what the fast would look like.

I have had another user name in the past, a few actually. I have known some of these people on the forums for a while. I have seen no progress made on their behalf, that's what i mean. I thought it was kind of insulting so i took it out.

Going to use your favorite word here "context" the eating methods I mention depend where you're starting from. Someone who is severely obese does have some health issues that need to get handle. This is where I mention weight and health. As someone gets closer to a healthy weight then I would recommend cleaning up their diet.

I am pretty sure you seen me say "who is healthier a 700lbs man eating health or a man at a healthy weight eating junk?" The man at the healthy weight eating junk isn't optimal.

This all boils down to diet adherence, success in the long term.

So, of the list of 'haters', who has made no progress? Yes, you were right to take it out as not only is it insulting, it is incorrect.

You did not answer my question.

Also, I have seen you give the blanket statement on threads out of context i.e. when the OP is not morbidly obese. So while I agree with your point that losing weight no matter how, within reason, is more important than what the diet comprises for people who are significantly overweight, it seems that you are now saying that you disagree that this should be a blanket response without regard to context when answering an intake question.

However, that is really a moot point, as it did not answer the question as I say.

CoderGal

Now, to answer the rest of the question..how does a cleanse get rid of these, and how does it do so? Assuming that these of course fall into the definitions of toxins being used in the first place of course,

I partially agree with you but not fully. Maybe we're misunderstanding each other. As I said to taso in regards to your post, you can't constantly pollute your body and expect to be no stress on your organs. They do need a break from time to time. If you want to call this a cleanse or whatever so be it. I am more speaking along the lines of fasting.

I am not talking about pills and crap like the master cleanse stuff.

Ignoring the insinuation that you have made to me before on another thread that people who disagree with you have made no progress over the years, that you also made here and edited out..yes, I saw that.....I want to ask a legit question here Pu as to be honest I get totally confused with where you are coming from.

In other threads, you are all about 'calories' and it does not matter what you eat and that you can eat "junk" if you want and that losing weight is the biggest determinant of health markers and is all you need to worry about. Now here you are saying that when you pollute your body you need to give it a break. So, what about if you eat a balanced diet of mainly nutritious foods. Do you still think that your body needs a break?

If so, what would that break 'look' like? You were seeming to argue 'for' cleanses and detoxes by dismissing the thread that was linked that said that they were not necessary, but now seem to be agreeing with it and going down the lines of fasting. Or maybe you did not read the information in the link before dismissing it. Could you clarify and explain what the fast would look like.

I have had another user name in the past, a few actually. I have known some of these people on the forums for a while. I have seen no progress made on their behalf, that's what i mean. I thought it was kind of insulting so i took it out.

Going to use your favorite word here "context" the eating methods I mention depend where you're starting from. Someone who is severely obese does have some health issues that need to get handle. This is where I mention weight and health. As someone gets closer to a healthy weight then I would recommend cleaning up their diet.

I am pretty sure you seen me say "who is healthier a 700lbs man eating health or a man at a healthy weight eating junk?" The man at the healthy weight eating junk isn't optimal.

This all boils down to diet adherence, success in the long term.

So, of the list of 'haters', who has made no progress? Yes, you were right to take it out as not only is it insulting, it is incorrect.

You did not answer my question.

I donno about the rest of you but I'm above and beyond the progress I wanted to make and I think the rest of you look a hell of a lot better then me

Crankstr

So basically, if someone disagrees with you, it means they are automatically following someone else and not thinking for themselves?

Matt_Wild

The problem is that you guys are too dependent on research. You guys say, "well this is what the studies say and that's how it is." Or "there is no science to back that up. so it's false."

I talk to my professors about this, some have PhD's in the field. I live in cali so every professor I studied under went to Berkeley.

The beginning of the semester i told my professor "studies aren't that reliable" he gave me this dirty look... like, "yes but don't talk about it." Science is far from perfect. It sometimes crosses my mind to drop my field because all of the BS.

A good example(i'm making this up): I can study a special protein and lets call it protein x and come up with data that states 50grams of protein x will double the growth of muscle.

Other science can review it and it can be a peer review paper. You guys get a hold of it and start preaching this stuff. "Consume protein x and you will double the rate of muscle growth." What wasn't said was the temperature of the lab. External temperatures and internal temperatures(in the body) usually aren't the same. This can have a huge effect.

To have a good study you need to control as many variables as possible. You then test something. If it works that's good. Now will all these variables be controlled under normal conditions? NO. so the studies are flawed big time.

To come to a solid conclusion is a long process.

I used to debate with labrat about the alkalizing diet. She would say there is no evidence to support it, and the body doesn't work that way. That the pH of blood won't change. Using common sense I believed it did. Now there are papers coming out that what we eat can have an impact on our blood pH. There have been many things, I would state at first that people didn't agree with. I would get bashed constantly for some things. NOw... they're widely accepted. One of the things was IF. I think this was before most of you where even on MFP.

Do you understand what meta analysis is?

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

The only time a detox is necessary is if you're a drug addict or alcoholic. I've been inpatient to detox off of heroin before, but I think my body can handle me eating one too many pizzas on its own.

CoderGal

You know i can't name them, they might get insulted. When i mention to focus on calories is when people are complaining about diet adherence.

I'm assuming the person who asked won't get insulted, I won't get insulted, that narrows it down to a few people so you might as well come out and say it.

Sarauk2sf

Now, to answer the rest of the question..how does a cleanse get rid of these, and how does it do so? Assuming that these of course fall into the definitions of toxins being used in the first place of course,

I partially agree with you but not fully. Maybe we're misunderstanding each other. As I said to taso in regards to your post, you can't constantly pollute your body and expect to be no stress on your organs. They do need a break from time to time. If you want to call this a cleanse or whatever so be it. I am more speaking along the lines of fasting.

I am not talking about pills and crap like the master cleanse stuff.

Ignoring the insinuation that you have made to me before on another thread that people who disagree with you have made no progress over the years, that you also made here and edited out..yes, I saw that.....I want to ask a legit question here Pu as to be honest I get totally confused with where you are coming from.

In other threads, you are all about 'calories' and it does not matter what you eat and that you can eat "junk" if you want and that losing weight is the biggest determinant of health markers and is all you need to worry about. Now here you are saying that when you pollute your body you need to give it a break. So, what about if you eat a balanced diet of mainly nutritious foods. Do you still think that your body needs a break?

If so, what would that break 'look' like? You were seeming to argue 'for' cleanses and detoxes by dismissing the thread that was linked that said that they were not necessary, but now seem to be agreeing with it and going down the lines of fasting. Or maybe you did not read the information in the link before dismissing it. Could you clarify and explain what the fast would look like.

I have had another user name in the past, a few actually. I have known some of these people on the forums for a while. I have seen no progress made on their behalf, that's what i mean. I thought it was kind of insulting so i took it out.

Going to use your favorite word here "context" the eating methods I mention depend where you're starting from. Someone who is severely obese does have some health issues that need to get handle. This is where I mention weight and health. As someone gets closer to a healthy weight then I would recommend cleaning up their diet.

I am pretty sure you seen me say "who is healthier a 700lbs man eating health or a man at a healthy weight eating junk?" The man at the healthy weight eating junk isn't optimal.

This all boils down to diet adherence, success in the long term.

So, of the list of 'haters', who has made no progress? Yes, you were right to take it out as not only is it insulting, it is incorrect.

You did not answer my question.

Also, I have seen you give the blanket statement on threads out of context i.e. when the OP is not morbidly obese. So while I agree with your point that losing weight no matter how, within reason, is more important than what the diet comprises for people who are significantly overweight, it seems that you are now saying that you disagree that this should be a blanket response without regard to context when answering an intake question.

However, that is really a moot point, as it did not answer the question as I say.

You know i can't name them, they might get insulted. When i mention to focus on calories is when people are complaining about diet adherence.

Well, you just names 5 people as your 'haters'. I know you insinuated it of me previously..so why be coy now?

Elisirmon

Detoxing helps eliminate toxins we take in from pesticides, air quality, tap water, and chemicals we apply to our skin, clothes, and household cleaners. These man made toxins effect our health over all and can cause cancer or ill health and it is good to detox atleast once every six months. You will actually smell a difference in your body odor and sweat and your skin and hair and over all energy.

Elisirmon

Also these toxins can cause your liver to not shed weight and store them in fat.

Sarauk2sf

So basically, if someone disagrees with you, it means they are automatically following someone else and not thinking for themselves?

"someone" no, a "group" yes.

So, if lets say, the American Cancer Society (using this as an example and not actually pertinent to toxins or cleanses) disagrees with you then they are a hater and a clique?

Or is it if a lot of people disagree with you? Perhaps you should look to the underlying reasons why they are disagreeing rather than assuming it is purely because they are part of a clique? Just throwing that bit of logic out there for you!

JustJennie1

Also these toxins can cause your liver to not shed weight and store them in fat.

So pesticides make me fat?!

Sarauk2sf

Also these toxins can cause your liver to not shed weight and store them in fat.

What toxins and how exactly does this happen?

etoiles_argentees

Pu, you're wrong. Alan likes you because you think outside. Nothing is ever made better if we all think and agree on the same things, just flowing others like sheep. We learn nothing. I'll have him message you.

jenilla1

So if your doctor has you go on an elimination diet to figure out which foods are causing you digestive problems, is that a kind of cleanse?

Sarauk2sf

So if your doctor has you go on an elimination diet to figure out which foods are causing you digestive problems, is that a kind of cleanse?

IMO, no. It is purely to see what you may or may not be intolerant or have a sensitivity to.,