Toxins
Replies
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(that was my question)
(also, the guy admitted it gave him more energy!)
On behalf of "the guy", "he" also said that it was probably because he wasn't thinking about food as much. And, now that the guy thinks about it, he does feel sleepy after a meal, so eating everything before bed seems like the most logical idea.
Still has nothing to do with a cleanse.
And yes, the difference between IF and a cleanse is that with a cleanse you'll do the low-cal thing for longer than you'd go without a meal with IF (note the use of the word similar, not same). But that said, going that long without food gives your digestive tract an opportunity to clear everything out. When you're not eating on IF, do you still drink water/liquids? Those are still going to go through your GI tract and help flush out toxins.
Cleanse = BS attempt to clean out systems, flush out toxins, etc.
IF = Eating calories within a smaller timeframe.
No. Comparison.0 -
gotta go. have a blast y'all.
Seems to be your MO0 -
Then you probably should not have used it as your explanation then....lolerz
Interesting how the same people who bash cleanses are the ones who support IF... (psssst, it serves a similar function!)
Psssssst! No it doesn't.
why do you think IF gives you "more energy"?
EDIT: Also, just because you do IF for such-and-such a reason, doesn't change the EFFECTS it has on the system, which are similar to a cleanse.
How exactly does IF give you more energy?
(that was my question)
(also, the guy admitted it gave him more energy!)
And yes, the difference between IF and a cleanse is that with a cleanse you'll do the low-cal thing for longer than you'd go without a meal with IF (note the use of the word similar, not same). But that said, going that long without food gives your digestive tract an opportunity to clear everything out. When you're not eating on IF, do you still drink water/liquids? Those are still going to go through your GI tract and help flush out toxins.
Yet again, you are not understanding what IF actually is.
So, you took one guys comment that it have him more energy and decided to come to the conclusion that it is the same as cleanses?
Wow do you even READ these threads or just respond to my posts without bothering with the context? He said it gave him energy AFTER my comparison... lolerz.
I was responding to your actual comments made in the thread quote.0 -
Nope. Wen you give your digestive tract a break, it just shuts down and won't do as much any more until you give it food again to digest. No way it would then mobilise any 'toxin storages' in the body to now work on the backlog.But that said, going that long without food gives your digestive tract an opportunity to clear everything out. When you're not eating on IF, do you still drink water/liquids? Those are still going to go through your GI tract and help flush out toxins.
How many people have an abdominal scan after a detox, cleanse, or IF? I just had one after a month of alternate day fasting and lo and behold. -- the colon had just become 'lazier'.0 -
WT?
http://chriskresser.com/intermittent-fasting-cortisol-and-blood-sugar
http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/1270/intermittent-fasting-part-1/ ....read page 2.
VERY intersting links - http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/47354-mess-up-your-heart-with-intermittent-fasting/page__p__473475#entry473475
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/28167-protein-cycling-diet/0 -
sorry op, I just read your question, should have done that before spouting off at the other responses.0
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and I'd argue that MORE people would be mobile and active in their 70s if they ate better foods, and didn't limit themselves to the things that "science" has "proven"My natruopathic doctor explained it to me this way. We live in a dirtier world than we think and our bodies can not tolerate the amount of junk we inhale, injest and intake. The best way to 'detoxify' our bodies is to pee, poop and slough skin. Which means we need to drink clean water and lots of it, eat healthy fiber in the packaging God provided and use a loofa.
How do you reconcile the fact that we are living much longer and healthier these days?
longer yes, healthier? i'd argue that one...
People that are still mobile and active in their 70's and beyond is pretty impressive.
I like this quote. To many people on these forums have no experience on the things they bash. They're just parrots speaking without experience.
There are many bogus cleanse methods. There are some legit ones. Now the real question is, who here has done a legit cleanse, such as a green vegetable juice cleanse or some form of fasting and didn't feel better in the end?
Don't worry, I'll wait...
That's okay, I think the OP is still waiting on a legitimate answer too. Lots of waiting here . . .0 -
gotta go. have a blast y'all.
Seems to be your MO
Gotta sell some shakes!0 -
Unlike some of us (*cough* points at self *cough*), the body doesn't go out and rent a storage area to put extra 'stuff' and then forget about it.
The body makes use of these fat cells. Fat cells are storage units that maintain triglyceride and free fatty acid levels. In addition, there are several different hormones created in fat cells. "Adipose tissue is also a major site for metabolism of sex steroids and glucocorticoids." Indeed, some of the metabolic processes that go on in adipose tissue aren't always beneficial in the long run. "...adipose tissue is a major endocrine organ that secretes numerous polypeptide hormones and cytokines that are proinflammatory and proatherogenic."
Fat cells are also the preferential storage area for toxins that your body can't get rid of in some other way.
In general, you're pretty good when it comes to dealing with toxins. How your body deals with a toxin depends in part on how the toxin comes into the system. Sometimes the body's responses, which originated during a time when there was no industrial waste, aren't helpful. For example, when cigarette smoke comes into the lungs, the body reacts by transforming a major component of the smoke into a carcinogenic compound. (1)
Alternatively, if the body receives the toxin known as alcohol (grain alcohol) in relatively small doses, the liver processes it and the human frequently enjoys the process of being intoxicated.
Or, your body could store the toxin. "Most of us have been exposed to organochlorines found in pesticides, dyes, solvents, etc... and we contain residues in our adipose tissue, where they are preferentially stored."
Yet another reason to eat organic and not live next to a chemical factory
I don't mean to scare anybody, but you should be aware that if you've got toxins in your system, they can affect you adversely. "Because most of environmental chemicals, called estrogen disruptors or xenoestrogens, are toxic and estrogen/antiandrogen active, they can disregulate hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis potentially inducing reproductive disorders."
Similarly, if you're having problems with low thyroid levels, the toxins in your environment might be one of the causes. "Even after adjustment for weight loss, the related increase in organochlorine concentration has been correlated with decreases in triidothyronine (T3) concentration and resting metabolic rate."
Why all the talk about detox diets?
Researching all this stuff not only increased my paranoia level, it made me appreciate why people are so eager to buy books and products that purport to help rid your body of toxins. I plan to write another post on detox diets, but I had to write this one first, because there was too much material to fit into one post.
Three things I should mention here:
- All the kerfuffle about toxins in your system has some depressing basis in reality.
- Because this is such a popular subject, there are tons of unscrupulous people trying to sell you something to deal with toxins. I think it's safe to say that there might also some scrupulous people trying to sell you something to help with the problem.
- If you're obese, you have more toxins stored in your body. "... the obese tend to have increased organochlorine concentrations compared to lean individuals. During body weight loss, a decrease in fat mass results in lipid mobilization, and organochlorine concentrations increase both in plasma and remaining adipose tissue."
The preferential storage place is adipose tissue, the fat cells. If you are losing weight, and hopefully are doing weight lifting and aerobic exercise, then you're losing fat, which does mean that there are toxins circulating in your system. Even people who advocate Calorie Restriction do not recommend adopting the CR lifestyle too abruptly, for fear that losing a whole lot of weight quickly (and thus releasing a large the amount of toxins into the system all at once) might overwhelm the body:
"Our foods contain various chemicals (e.g. pesticides) that are fat soluble.... losing fat (weight) too quickly will flush lots of toxic chemicals into our bloodstream -- too fast for our bodies to effectively eliminate."0 -
Hi, OP.
Toxins:
"Toxins
Toxins are substances created by plants and animals that are poisonous to humans. Toxins also include medications that are helpful in small doses but poisonous when used in an large amounts.
Most toxins that cause problems in humans are released by germs such as bacteria. For example, cholera is due to a bacterial toxin."
I like you. Please don't eat cholera.
There's also this.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/408514-how-to-flush-the-body-of-toxins/
So, having established that toxins are cholera, and that water clears the body of toxins, I think I just learned that water cures cholera.......
:huh:0 -
So (please note I'm not the kind of person that detoxes. I have a cousin who believes in them) the gist of it is every day your body absorbs (thru your skin, lungs, intestines, etc) chemicals that aren't good for the body. Let's say things like arsenic from playing on old wooden jungle gyms, pesticides on unwashed fruit, ammonia from cleaning the cat litter, aspartame from diet coke, etc.
Now, healthy bodies know how to handle this stuff. Our liver and immune system isolate toxins like these and neutralize them and then excrete the waste from that process. Thru our breath, urine, poo, skin, etc.
However, we aren't healthy. We aren't efficient at this process, due to all the fast food and meat and other things that are "hard" for our bodies to digest (again, this isn't me talking, just keep that in mind). So since our liver is busy with all the primary duties of digesting food, our bodies stores the "toxins" in fat cells and other places around the body, saying "we'll get back to neutralizing and eliminating that toxin later when I'm not so busy." But we never give our livers a rest. So the toxin store up in our bodies. In our lymph nodes, hell, I don't know where. Somewhere.
When you "detox" you are giving your liver and digestive tract a "break" from the hard task of digesting crappy food. So since the liver now finds itself an organ of leisure, it tells the body to bring all those stored toxins to it, so it can finally deal with the backlog.
So all that smelly poo, massive amounts of pee, itchy skin, runny nose or any of the other "detox" side effects are proof that your liver is indeed finally processing all that old, built up toxins, and your body is expelling it.
Haha! This is great. Well done.
(This post was satire, right?)0 -
gotta go. have a blast y'all.
Seems to be your MO
to... go... to work? when... I'm supposed to?
yeah... yeah that IS my MO - well done. 0 -
gotta go. have a blast y'all.
Seems to be your MO
to... go... to work? when... I'm supposed to?
yeah... yeah that IS my MO - well done.
The timing is always very fortuitous.0 -
gotta go. have a blast y'all.
Seems to be your MO
to... go... to work? when... I'm supposed to?
yeah... yeah that IS my MO - well done.
The timing is always very fortuitous.
Good point, I'm never up for 20 page arguments... I always cut and run.0 -
and I'd argue that MORE people would be mobile and active in their 70s if they ate better foods, and didn't limit themselves to the things that "science" has "proven"
oh.... lol
Pesky "science."
So who are you listening to? Dr Oz? Infomercials? Beach Body?0 -
I have seen this question asked a few times but never answered, so I figured I would just go ahead and ask directly. When people are talking about removing toxins in the body via cleanses, juicing, or eating clean...exactly what are these toxins being removed? For the most part "toxins" seems to be more of a buzzword than anything, but I would love to find out more about them if there are indeed toxins being removed so I can understand the process.
thx!
There are exotoxins and mycotoxins that can develop in the bloodstream, there is also candida. A green juice fast helps with this stuff, and straight fasting.
Reminds me of when people say, "You don't need to detox your body, your body does it naturally." Think of a water filter it cleans out our water. So does that mean you're going to put motor oil in it because "it filters automatically?" It's a pretty idiotic statement.
Of course our organs are constantly functioning. If you over load it, it will take more time for it to do it's job. If you stop putting stress on it, it can finish the process completely.
Pure biology fail.
Neither exotoxins or mycotoxins "develop". They are produced by bacteria and molds, respectively. The treatments for each are very different and if you have any concern for accumulation of these in your blood stream the proper treatment is NOT a green juice fast.
Your body is not a water filter, to try to reduce it to that. Well, that IS a pretty idiotic statement.0 -
quoting for emphasis0 -
quoting for emphasis
Going to drink motor oil now because our body does a great job cleansing itself.
What a silly example.0 -
quoting for emphasis
Going to drink motor oil now because our body does a great job cleansing itself.
Correct. You would immediately vomit. Your body is THAT smart.0 -
quoting for emphasis
Going to drink motor oil now because our body does a great job cleansing itself.
Correct. You would immediately vomit. Your body is THAT smart.
You might be right, my point is you can't constantly put crap in a system and expect it to not be stressed, which can lead to more severe complications.
Ya, I don't think anybody is arguing that one should constantly put crap in their body. But I didn't really read the whole thread. I suppose anything is possible in the MFP forum.0 -
I have seen this question asked a few times but never answered, so I figured I would just go ahead and ask directly. When people are talking about removing toxins in the body via cleanses, juicing, or eating clean...exactly what are these toxins being removed? For the most part "toxins" seems to be more of a buzzword than anything, but I would love to find out more about them if there are indeed toxins being removed so I can understand the process.
thx!
There are exotoxins and mycotoxins that can develop in the bloodstream, there is also candida. A green juice fast helps with this stuff, and straight fasting.
Reminds me of when people say, "You don't need to detox your body, your body does it naturally." Think of a water filter it cleans out our water. So does that mean you're going to put motor oil in it because "it filters automatically?" It's a pretty idiotic statement.
Of course our organs are constantly functioning. If you over load it, it will take more time for it to do it's job. If you stop putting stress on it, it can finish the process completely.
Pure biology fail.
Neither exotoxins or mycotoxins "develop". They are produced by bacteria and molds, respectively. The treatments for each are very different and if you have any concern for accumulation of these in your blood stream the proper treatment is NOT a green juice fast.
Your body is not a water filter, to try to reduce it to that. Well, that IS a pretty idiotic statement.
You're going to challenge me on the word "Develop?" Come on... These micro forms produce acidic wastes when they ingest and giest(ferment) energy from the electrons from carbohydrates, proteins, and fats.
The juice fast was about candida.
It's pretty idiotic if you don't understand the acid/base buffering system. So the idiocy isn't on my part.
Obviously the fail wasn't on my part.
"ingest and geist energy"? What are you trying to say?
If the juice fast was about candida why then mention exotoxins. Candida produces no exotoxins.
Your attempts at obfuscation by pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo are not going to work.
If you want to sugget that your green juice fast a) overcomes acid-base homeostasis b) that these changes are sufficiently long to eradicate candida you are going to need a little bit more than the insults.
Because, you know with my very very very poor biology education I only learned that the major system of pH homeostasis is based on respiratory rates. I'd love to understand how an ingested tea/juice/cleanse/whatever overcomes the respiratory compensation and bicarbonate systems.0 -
So, in summary, there is no actual proof of any "toxins"? Got it.0
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No. There is no proof that any product works to remove them any better than your natural detox mechanisms.So, in summary, there is no actual proof of any "toxins"? Got it.0 -
So, in summary, there is no actual proof of any "toxins"? Got it.The Nemours Foundation describes body toxins as, "A toxin is a chemical or poison that is known to have harmful effects on the body. Toxins can come from food or water, from chemicals used to grow or prepare food, and even from the air that we breathe. Our bodies process those toxins through organs like the liver and kidneys and eliminate them in the form of sweat, urine, and feces."
And you don't think it's at all possible for any of those systems to not operate at 100% efficiency at every moment of every day?0 -
You are constantly exposed to toxins, which is worse if you live near heavy pollution, pesticide spraying, eat poor quality food, drink unfiltered water, or live in a moldy house. Your body also produces toxic trash metabolites that must be cleared, which is worse if you have digestive problems, sinus problems, are under high stress, are fighting a bug, are recovering from surgery or an accident, do not sleep enough, or physically wear yourself out (including exercise).
In general there are four primary toxin removal systems that must all be working in harmony with each other. These involve:
- The disposal of cellular waste products, especially lactic acid.
- The removal of larger waste products through your lymph (smaller waste products go into your veins and are exhaled or
sent directly to your liver).
- The processing of toxins by your liver, most of which then go into bile and then into your digestive tract for final clearance
(some are made water-soluble and go to your kidneys to be excreted in urine).
- The final clearance of waste products by your digestive tract.
These four systems tend to flow from one to another. Any glitch in any one of these major systems of detoxification will back trash up in your body and cause problems.
http://www.wellnessresources.com/health_topics/detoxification/toxin_removal.php
The article also states something I agree with - that prolonged cleanses with no actual food intake are useless and dangerous. I've never done a cleanse where I've eaten less than 800-1200 cal0 -
So, in summary, there is no actual proof of any "toxins"? Got it.The Nemours Foundation describes body toxins as, "A toxin is a chemical or poison that is known to have harmful effects on the body. Toxins can come from food or water, from chemicals used to grow or prepare food, and even from the air that we breathe. Our bodies process those toxins through organs like the liver and kidneys and eliminate them in the form of sweat, urine, and feces."
And you don't think it's at all possible for any of those systems to not operate at 100% efficiency at every moment of every day?
So identify a specific cellular or tissue pathway that doesn't "operate at 100% efficiency" and identify the speciifc "toxins" that clog cells/sit around/do whatever toxins do and actually builds up.
Then identify a specific pathway, metabolic function, or chemical process by which any of these "cleanses" rids the body of excess amounts of that specific toxin.
I'll wait. Thanks.0 -
So, in summary, there is no actual proof of any "toxins"? Got it.The Nemours Foundation describes body toxins as, "A toxin is a chemical or poison that is known to have harmful effects on the body. Toxins can come from food or water, from chemicals used to grow or prepare food, and even from the air that we breathe. Our bodies process those toxins through organs like the liver and kidneys and eliminate them in the form of sweat, urine, and feces."
And you don't think it's at all possible for any of those systems to not operate at 100% efficiency at every moment of every day?
So identify a specific cellular or tissue pathway that doesn't "operate at 100% efficiency" and identify the speciifc "toxins" that clog cells/sit around/do whatever toxins do and actually builds up.
Then identify a specific pathway, metabolic function, or chemical process by which any of these "cleanses" rids the body of excess amounts of that specific toxin.
I'll wait. Thanks.
lol see this is the inherent problem between holisitic medicine and government and big pharma-supported science. there are flaws on both sides I'll grant you, but just because a specific scientific study hasn't been done doesn't mean something isn't true.
also I'm not a biologist.
EDIT: also see my post above yours for more specifics.0 -
also I'm not a biologist.
Yeah. That much is obvious. Maybe you shouldn't be giving people advice about mysterious "toxins" you can't identify and telling them how to get rid of them by magic cleanses whose function you don't know.0 -
I have seen this question asked a few times but never answered, so I figured I would just go ahead and ask directly. When people are talking about removing toxins in the body via cleanses, juicing, or eating clean...exactly what are these toxins being removed? For the most part "toxins" seems to be more of a buzzword than anything, but I would love to find out more about them if there are indeed toxins being removed so I can understand the process.
thx!
There are exotoxins and mycotoxins that can develop in the bloodstream, there is also candida. A green juice fast helps with this stuff, and straight fasting.
Reminds me of when people say, "You don't need to detox your body, your body does it naturally." Think of a water filter it cleans out our water. So does that mean you're going to put motor oil in it because "it filters automatically?" It's a pretty idiotic statement.
Of course our organs are constantly functioning. If you over load it, it will take more time for it to do it's job. If you stop putting stress on it, it can finish the process completely.
Pure biology fail.
Neither exotoxins or mycotoxins "develop". They are produced by bacteria and molds, respectively. The treatments for each are very different and if you have any concern for accumulation of these in your blood stream the proper treatment is NOT a green juice fast.
Your body is not a water filter, to try to reduce it to that. Well, that IS a pretty idiotic statement.
You're going to challenge me on the word "Develop?" Come on... These micro forms produce acidic wastes when they ingest and giest(ferment) energy from the electrons from carbohydrates, proteins, and fats.
The juice fast was about candida.
It's pretty idiotic if you don't understand the acid/base buffering system. So the idiocy isn't on my part.
Obviously the fail wasn't on my part.
"ingest and geist energy"? What are you trying to say?
If the juice fast was about candida why then mention exotoxins. Candida produces no exotoxins.
Your attempts at obfuscation by pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo are not going to work.
If you want to sugget that your green juice fast a) overcomes acid-base homeostasis b) that these changes are sufficiently long to eradicate candida you are going to need a little bit more than the insults.
Because, you know with my very very very poor biology education I only learned that the major system of pH homeostasis is based on respiratory rates. I'd love to understand how an ingested tea/juice/cleanse/whatever overcomes the respiratory compensation and bicarbonate systems.
You know I love it when you get all sexy geekified!0
This discussion has been closed.
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