Where's the evidence re: aspartame, msg, carbs, gmo etc?
Replies
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Haven't you heard of litigation? Why do you think they use rats so much? How many human studies on ANYTHING do you think are floating around out there? Be realistic.0
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ETA: it's not reading comprehension. It's called putting in very little effort to debate with people who aren't even in the field of science and don't know how it works.
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It's good every now and then to air stuff...let the crap roll, if you will. If people want to get healthy, and they are Unhealthy...FIRST try DOING the OPPOSITE of what You did to get that way.
Example: If you drank Sodas - Stop; If you ate fried chips - Stop; If you get headaches, joint pain, allergies...Eliminate some of the things known to cause them...Gluten, Sugar, peanuts... Gettin' Healthy ain't complicated when you keep Everybody out of your "Bidness"! The problem is with all of these "Gurus" and "Non-Gurus" and Everyone with an opinion about what YOU do. Another problem is when someone is doing really well at something, they "just gotta share" so when you do, WATCH OUT, You will get somebody's "Knowledge" about what you are doing wrong. Also, keep in mind, some people call getting slim, healthy...so many people are NOT even on the same page!!!0 -
Whoa, I'm so damn confused. I seriously do not understand. :noway: There's been so many conflicting posts.0
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For one, I have three questions I would really like to ask the board to help with my progress, but I don't dare, because I am afraid you and your group will invade and tear me up for asking "dumb questions" just because "you know the answers and I don't". I am not even sure it is worth it.
You should go ahead and ask your questions. You know who the trollers are, and you can predict their snarky remarks. Just ignore them. You will get genuine answers too.
You could also target your questions to specific group boards. For example, if it's a low carb kind of question, there are groups on MFP specific to that where you will get actual helpful responses.
Good luck.
Thank you for this because I didn't know there were "groups" on here. I am going to look into that now.0 -
*editted for spelling
Irony?0 -
It's good every now and then to air stuff...let the crap roll, if you will. If people want to get healthy, and they are Unhealthy...FIRST try DOING the OPPOSITE of what You did to get that way.
Example: If you drank Sodas - Stop; If you ate fried chips - Stop; If you get headaches, joint pain, allergies...Eliminate some of the things known to cause them...Gluten, Sugar, peanuts... Gettin' Healthy ain't complicated when you keep Everybody out of your "Bidness"! The problem is with all of these "Gurus" and "Non-Gurus" and Everyone with an opinion about what YOU do. Another problem is when someone is doing really well at something, they "just gotta share" so when you do, WATCH OUT, You will get somebody's "Knowledge" about what you are doing wrong. Also, keep in mind, some people call getting slim, healthy...so many people are NOT even on the same page!!!
LOL. I actually do get muscle and joint pain if I eat too much sugar. It saddens me. I love sugar. I just have to be careful.0 -
This was a great read. Thanks guys! lol0
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Sara being a troll? You can't be serious. She is one of the most helpful members on these forums.Personally insulting me does not change the fact that's your statements were incorrect.
You don't understand. I didn't want to mention any names so you didn't feel insulted but you weren't understanding.
What i said, was directly related to the people in the little clique you hang around with. Knowing that, my statement is correct. That's who the entire topic was directed at.
I am pretty sure "those people" haven't been severely obese, and really can't help someone who is. You guys give cookie cutter answers. 20% cut, 1g of protein minimum of LBM. Fat 0.35 per lbs fill the rest with carbs.
What if someone is so fat you can't even measure their BF within reason? What if they never exercised one day in their life? If they're constantly binging? If they can't even walk 5mins.? Protein or carb sensitive?
I hope my assumption is wrong, but i assume you guys wouldn't even know where to begin.
Calling me a troll is a personal insult. Also, I hear a lovely guy called Ed loves ice cream - you know the one who was over 500lb and has lost over 300lb.
He didn't call you a "troll". He said you "troll" (as in an action). Not "troll" as in name calling. Many see you as someone who does this and you have a group which follows you or you follow them and hit every thread making sure it isn't a positive experience. So many on here are trying to avoid the bites you and your clique take at us. If it stopped, this would probably be a really nice place to be where people didn't have to be afraid to ask questions. So many of us are trying to learn and to grow by using these boards, yet we also try to avoid, that 'one group' who does the trolling, the laughing, the sarcasm.
For one, I have three questions I would really like to ask the board to help with my progress, but I don't dare, because I am afraid you and your group will invade and tear me up for asking "dumb questions" just because "you know the answers and I don't". I am not even sure it is worth it.
Pu, I sent Alan a message. I hope he responds.0 -
Chronic inflammation is a key feature of insulin resistance and obesity(TLR4 is important to modulating insulin resistance))[1]
The saturated fatty acid (SFA) palmitate induces insulin resistance in cultured skeletal muscle cells, which may be related to NF-kappaB activation. Collectively, these results demonstrate that SFA-induced NF-kappaB activation coincides with insulin resistance and depends on FA chain length.
So now we have NF-kB linked to insulin resistance. Chronic high levels of glucose can lead to insulin resistance. NF-kB is also linked to simple carbs. [3]
A 3 months study comparing a paleo diet to a diabetics diet concluded the paleo diet improved glycemic control. [4]
A diet that has lower GI foods lowered lower inflammation to a greater degree compared to an isocaloric diet with a higher carbohydrate and lower protein content although the weight loss was the same.[5]
Funny how last year you guys where bashing paleo because there was no "evidence," here it is now. I got many more paleo studies if you want them.
1.http://www.hindawi.com/journals/grp/2010/212563
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18957619
3. http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20071126/refined-carbohydrates-up-diabetes-risk
4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407
5.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17189547
You don't have to eat hardcore paleo to up your protein intake and moderately reduce carbohydrates, with an eye to glycemic loads.
I am not promoting the paleo diet. My point is how HIGH GI foods can lead to cellular inflammation.
If you eat too much of it, maybe. In small to moderate quantities in context to a balanced diet, I don't think they're that much of an issue. I've been using myself as a guinea pig here
because a great deal of replacement starches for celiacs are higher GI. It's why people gain weight when they go GF and eat them, just like I did. I've lost weight through moderating them, but not completely eliminating them.
I'd agree but some of these guys preach eating ice cram everyday.
I even put some Girlscout cookies in mine:bigsmile:
I eat ice cream daily. Pop tarts too.
So you don't think if you didn't have them so often you might increase your life span????
No. Too many variables in life span. one example, buses. Plus I don't feel a few servings a day of ice cream or some poptarts are shortening anyone's lives. ( just my opinion )0 -
Haven't you heard of litigation? Why do you think they use rats so much? How many human studies on ANYTHING do you think are floating around out there? Be realistic.
Lots, its a good way to get paid.0 -
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Personally insulting me does not change the fact that's your statements were incorrect.
You don't understand. I didn't want to mention any names so you didn't feel insulted but you weren't understanding.
What i said, was directly related to the people in the little clique you hang around with. Knowing that, my statement is correct. That's who the entire topic was directed at.
I am pretty sure "those people" haven't been severely obese, and really can't help someone who is. You guys give cookie cutter answers. 20% cut, 1g of protein minimum of LBM. Fat 0.35 per lbs fill the rest with carbs.
What if someone is so fat you can't even measure their BF within reason? What if they never exercised one day in their life? If they're constantly binging? If they can't even walk 5mins.? Protein or carb sensitive?
I hope my assumption is wrong, but i assume you guys wouldn't even know where to begin.
Calling me a troll is a personal insult. Also, I hear a lovely guy called Ed loves ice cream - you know the one who was over 500lb and has lost over 300lb.
He didn't call you a "troll". He said you "troll" (as in an action). Not "troll" as in name calling. Many see you as someone who does this and you have a group which follows you or you follow them and hit every thread making sure it isn't a positive experience. So many on here are trying to avoid the bites you and your clique take at us. If it stopped, this would probably be a really nice place to be where people didn't have to be afraid to ask questions. So many of us are trying to learn and to grow by using these boards, yet we also try to avoid, that 'one group' who does the trolling, the laughing, the sarcasm.
For one, I have three questions I would really like to ask the board to help with my progress, but I don't dare, because I am afraid you and your group will invade and tear me up for asking "dumb questions" just because "you know the answers and I don't". I am not even sure it is worth it.
Ask away - you can always just ignore the replies you don't like, or put the peole who constantly disagree with you on ignore.
As for trying to learn when using these boards, you will not find many more helpful, knowledgeable and supportive people than Sara.
Just beause someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them a troll. If you are just looking for answers agreeing with you and encouraging you to do unhealthy things then you would be better of sticking to the groups, as asking in the General forums is just going to get you realistic advice, which you don't seem to be looking for.
Good luck.0 -
You did mention eating ice cream all the time didn't you? It is relevant.
They do it because they are jerks. They know EXACTLY what they are doing when they brag about that. They are rubbing it in the faces of those who struggle to lose. They know that the majority of people here are hurt, are suffering, are overweight, or are obese, uneducated on health and nutrition, are sick, are depressed about their current condition and are wanting to change. Wanting to learn. They make sure YOU KNOW, THEY CAN and YOU CAN'T so what is wrong with YOU and how cool are they? It is very immature and very rude. It's as if they are in junior high. Like I said, they know what they are doing. Why do they think we care? What is the purpose of getting on MFP and saying, "look at my six pack and I eat ice cream every day." It's like me sitting outside of an AA meeting with a beer on a hot day and making slurping noises as I drink it, holding it up to the member saying, "I do this every day, but in moderation and I'm not an alcoholic". I CAN, you can't
I'd agree but some of these guys preach eating ice cram everyday.
just making sure you all know. But hey, I do it in moderation and I STILL am not an alcoholic. " Or more in comparison would be to go to an AA forum online and post I drink wine every night with dinner and am not an alcoholic. Just childish! Just cruel and completely stupid.
Truth is they never really experienced obesity. They really had nothing to push through or fight for to be where they are at today.
Ask these people anything about the psychological aspect of weight loss. How do you take someone severely obese and get them in to shape? They wouldn't know where to begin. They never been there.
You have absolutely no idea about people's lives and what they have had to go through to get where they are. I can also name many people on here who where obese and who eat ice cream all the time...and I know you know they are here.
Question is, who will die first in the long run?
Sorry, I do not have my crystal ball. However, your question is completely irrelevant to the comment I made.
I have talked to a lot of people who have lost over 100lbs. Funny thing is most of them don't know much about nutrition or even exercise. What did they did works, as you know fat loss is simple.
3 people come to mind.
person 1:
Ate 1,200 calories a day, and exercised.
Person 2:
Don't know his calorie limit but was on the elliptical about 2hrs a day.
Person 3:
This person would eat about 1,000 calories a day (a man) lost over 250lbs.
You think this is the best way to get results?
Still trying to dodge the comment?
You: Truth is they never really experienced obesity.
Not true and you know it. It is also incorrect that the people who I know eat ice cream with regularity and who were obese know nothing about nutrition.
You: They really had nothing to push through or fight for to be where they are at today.
You have absolutely no idea about people's lives and what they have had to go through to get where they are.
Um, i am not avoiding anything, you just don't understand. You mentioned ice cream, i replied to ice cream. Below is the "path/chain" of how what i said is linked to what you said,...
Lets go back to where this discussion started. It started with that girl about most people being jerks and bragging about the food they eat.
The people who do that haven't been through what i mentioned above. Lets put the puzzle pieces together because my logic is so flawed.
If you were obese you would know it's not cool at all to be doing that stuff in the first place.If you do this i am pretty sure you weren't obese. So this common still stands. My original comment still stands.
Now you're just making things up. I never said people who eat ice cream know noting about nutrition.
B.S. I was obese. I also struggled with an eating disorder for 6 years. So you can bet your bottom dollar that I will talk about the two slices of pizza I ate on Monday or my 3 times a week bowl of ice cream.Because I wasn't always able to bring myself to eat ice cream and I haven't always been able to stop at 2 slices of pizza.
So why don't you tell me more about how I don't understand the psychological aspect of weight loss or that I've never had to fight to be where I am.0 -
Your comprehension is astounding.
Oh, I see. Because who would ever thing that this phase would be followed by references supporting paleo?Funny how last year you guys where bashing paleo because there was no "evidence," here it is now. I got many more paleo studies if you want them.
How silly of me.
Is paleo low GI or not? The answer is obvious. That entire topic was about low GI. There is evidence to support lower GI foods. Which in turn supports paleo. As I mentioned already the types of fat might be an issue so I don't fully recommend it.
These people would always go around saying, "It hasn't been proven that doing x is wrong, so I am going to go and do x." That's what this topic is about actually. "It hasn't been proven so it's fine." it's a pretty dumb assumption.
I used the paleo as an example of what they used to say. "There is no evidence to support the benefits so it's wrong." Now there is. It was just an example of what happened in the past. It really wasn't related much to what i said in that post. It was an off subject comment. Keep what in mind what i said initially. "Is paleo low GI or not? The answer is obvious. That entire topic was about low GI. There is evidence to support lower GI foods. Which in turn supports paleo."
As always strong reading comprehension, in the OPNote: This is not saying that if there is no evidence something is bad for you, that it is good for you. Just at the present time, there is no evidence to warrant the fear mongering over such substances.
Also glad you know exactly if anyone has or has not been obese in their lifetimes
Yeah, you eat none of the stuff that was listed in the header of this topic right? It hasn't been proven to be bad so it must be good! Not very good logic.
ETA: it's not reading comprehension. It's called putting in very little effort to debate with people who aren't even in the field of science and don't know how it works.
Read again what I quoted from the OP0 -
Is there cake here, or what?0
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Chronic inflammation is a key feature of insulin resistance and obesity(TLR4 is important to modulating insulin resistance))[1]
The saturated fatty acid (SFA) palmitate induces insulin resistance in cultured skeletal muscle cells, which may be related to NF-kappaB activation. Collectively, these results demonstrate that SFA-induced NF-kappaB activation coincides with insulin resistance and depends on FA chain length.
So now we have NF-kB linked to insulin resistance. Chronic high levels of glucose can lead to insulin resistance. NF-kB is also linked to simple carbs. [3]
A 3 months study comparing a paleo diet to a diabetics diet concluded the paleo diet improved glycemic control. [4]
A diet that has lower GI foods lowered lower inflammation to a greater degree compared to an isocaloric diet with a higher carbohydrate and lower protein content although the weight loss was the same.[5]
Funny how last year you guys where bashing paleo because there was no "evidence," here it is now. I got many more paleo studies if you want them.
1.http://www.hindawi.com/journals/grp/2010/212563
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18957619
3. http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20071126/refined-carbohydrates-up-diabetes-risk
4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407
5.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17189547
You don't have to eat hardcore paleo to up your protein intake and moderately reduce carbohydrates, with an eye to glycemic loads.
I am not promoting the paleo diet. My point is how HIGH GI foods can lead to cellular inflammation.
If you eat too much of it, maybe. In small to moderate quantities in context to a balanced diet, I don't think they're that much of an issue. I've been using myself as a guinea pig here because a great deal of replacement starches for celiacs are higher GI. It's why people gain weight when they go GF and eat them, just like I did. I've lost weight through moderating them, but not completely eliminating them.
I'd agree but some of these guys preach eating ice cram everyday.
I even put some Girlscout cookies in mine:bigsmile:
I eat ice cream daily. Pop tarts too.
So you don't think if you didn't have them so often you might increase your life span????
Depends on dose and context. If someone didn't drink alcohol so often would that increase thier lifespan? Say, isn't that a picture of you in your profile pics with a bottle of booze?
Pot meet kettle.0 -
Yeah, you eat none of the stuff that was listed in the header of this topic right? It hasn't been proven to be bad so it must be good! Not very good logic.
I just want to address this little snippet right here.
Aspartame HAS been proven to be safe. 30 years ago! That is why the FDA allows it to be produced and marketed to the general public. No one has managed to prove that it is bad. It is fear-mongering generated by the sugar industry, the media, and other people trying to sell a book. Aspartame is profitable on both sides of the controversy. I personally choose not to believe everything I hear or read because I do not wish to have my opinions shaped and molded on substandard information.0 -
This should be good... bump for when I have like an hour to spare. :bigsmile:0
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Sometimes I think people don't read the studies they post, they just jump to the Conclusion without really absorbing and analysing the study. Then they call out their opponents for their "blind faith" and not thinking critically.
Some questions to ask yourself might be, is this an observational study or a randomised controlled trial? What was the dose and under what context was it administered? Is this a study in a journal or a website article? Even worse, is this a news article where the reporter almost always misinterprets the results? Keep in mind it is very possible to quote a study accurately yet imply a meaning other than what was originally intended. One of the most important questions of all is "do I understand what the hell all these terms mean?" If you're a layperson and you're not spending more time researching the underlying science then actually reading the study, you're probably going to reach unscientific conclusions. It seems like everyone is trained in nutritional science and molecular biology these days...0 -
Sometimes I think people don't read the studies they post, they just jump to the Conclusion without really absorbing and analysing the study. Then they call out their opponents for their "blind faith" and not thinking critically.
Some questions to ask yourself might be, is this an observational study or a randomised controlled trial? What was the dose and under what context was it administered? Is this a study in a journal or a website article? Even worse, is this a news article where the reporter almost always misinterprets the results? Keep in mind it is very possible to quote a study accurately yet imply a meaning other than what was originally intended. One of the most important questions of all is "do I understand what the hell all these terms mean?" If you're a layperson and you're not spending more time researching the underlying science then actually reading the study, you're probably going to reach unscientific conclusions. It seems like everyone is trained in nutritional science and molecular biology these days...
I agree with all of this.
Especially about studies that are interpreted by a journalist. It's like playing that game "password" with science. The journalist is interpretting data that, as you pointed out, he likely doesn't understand. Then, the reader is developing their own interpretation from the journalists distorted interpretation. You have to be careful about what studies you give credence to and why.0 -
Note: This is not saying that if there is no evidence something is bad for you, that it is good for you. Just at the present time, there is no evidence to warrant the fear mongering over such substances.
Read again what I quoted from the OP
Find me one study that says "drinking barium" is toxic... I'd assume you won't be able to find one. According to you we shouldn't have fear doing it. It is toxic just so you know.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp24-c2.pdf
Happy?0 -
0
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Note: This is not saying that if there is no evidence something is bad for you, that it is good for you. Just at the present time, there is no evidence to warrant the fear mongering over such substances.
Read again what I quoted from the OP
Find me one study that says "drinking barium" is toxic... I'd assume you won't be able to find one. According to you we shouldn't have fear doing it. It is toxic just so you know.
Way to change the subject, you made these assumptionsThese people would always go around saying, "It hasn't been proven that doing x is wrong, so I am going to go and do x." That's what this topic is about actually. "It hasn't been proven so it's fine." it's a pretty dumb assumption.It hasn't been proven to be bad so it must be good! Not very good logic.
Which was clearly stated that was not the case in the OP
And to fear and fear mongering are different things.0 -
Chronic inflammation is a key feature of insulin resistance and obesity(TLR4 is important to modulating insulin resistance))[1]
The saturated fatty acid (SFA) palmitate induces insulin resistance in cultured skeletal muscle cells, which may be related to NF-kappaB activation. Collectively, these results demonstrate that SFA-induced NF-kappaB activation coincides with insulin resistance and depends on FA chain length.
So now we have NF-kB linked to insulin resistance. Chronic high levels of glucose can lead to insulin resistance. NF-kB is also linked to simple carbs. [3]
A 3 months study comparing a paleo diet to a diabetics diet concluded the paleo diet improved glycemic control. [4]
A diet that has lower GI foods lowered lower inflammation to a greater degree compared to an isocaloric diet with a higher carbohydrate and lower protein content although the weight loss was the same.[5]
Funny how last year you guys where bashing paleo because there was no "evidence," here it is now. I got many more paleo studies if you want them.
1.http://www.hindawi.com/journals/grp/2010/212563
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18957619
3. http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20071126/refined-carbohydrates-up-diabetes-risk
4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407
5.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17189547
You don't have to eat hardcore paleo to up your protein intake and moderately reduce carbohydrates, with an eye to glycemic loads.
I am not promoting the paleo diet. My point is how HIGH GI foods can lead to cellular inflammation.
If you eat too much of it, maybe. In small to moderate quantities in context to a balanced diet, I don't think they're that much of an issue. I've been using myself as a guinea pig here because a great deal of replacement starches for celiacs are higher GI. It's why people gain weight when they go GF and eat them, just like I did. I've lost weight through moderating them, but not completely eliminating them.
I'd agree but some of these guys preach eating ice cram everyday.
I even put some Girlscout cookies in mine:bigsmile:
I eat ice cream daily. Pop tarts too.
So you don't think if you didn't have them so often you might increase your life span????
Depends on dose and context. If someone didn't drink alcohol so often would that increase thier lifespan? Say, isn't that a picture of you in your profile pics with a bottle of booze?
Pot meet kettle.
Yes i used to drink often, haven't drink since ... I think june? Just because you have a picture with a tequila bottle doesn't mean you're drinking it.
.
So, your not drinking it. You just hanging out with a bottle of tequila cause your buddies?? :noway:
I hope for your sake that you have made this change. That however, does not change the fact that you join in on these threads and start laying it down and judging other people like you are some kind of expert. Dude, your not. You are not a dumb guy but you are not the expert you think you are and sometimes, how you connect the dots is just plain out there.
Then you want to argue about it and get belligerent and name call. It's been your MO and is why you have the reputation you have.0 -
Lets face it if these chemicals are dangerous - where are the successful law suits against them? The US and UK loves suing everyone for everything.0
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Lets face it if these chemicals are dangerous - where are the successful law suits against them? The US and UK loves suing everyone for everything.
Inb4conspiracytheories0 -
Lets face it if these chemicals are dangerous - where are the successful law suits against them? The US and UK loves suing everyone for everything.
Inb4conspiracytheories
I think you are too late for that 0 -
Sometimes I think people don't read the studies they post, they just jump to the Conclusion without really absorbing and analysing the study. Then they call out their opponents for their "blind faith" and not thinking critically.
Some questions to ask yourself might be, is this an observational study or a randomised controlled trial? What was the dose and under what context was it administered? Is this a study in a journal or a website article? Even worse, is this a news article where the reporter almost always misinterprets the results? Keep in mind it is very possible to quote a study accurately yet imply a meaning other than what was originally intended. One of the most important questions of all is "do I understand what the hell all these terms mean?" If you're a layperson and you're not spending more time researching the underlying science then actually reading the study, you're probably going to reach unscientific conclusions. It seems like everyone is trained in nutritional science and molecular biology these days...
Yes! Good post. We need a "like" and "unlike" button on here.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMihS5pFzQ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW__LPYTlk0
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