For those of you that invite others to objectify you:

dirtnap63

i see a vast difference between wanting to be judged on your moral integrity and intellect and wanting to be judged on how appealing a slab of meat you are.

Why do people think this is an either/or thing? Am I the only one who understands that we see each other and ourselves differently depending on context?

No, you are not alone. Well said.

OneEyeUp

When you post things like "bang, date, marry?" or "cute, hot, or sexy?" and ask people to objectify you, you are training them to think of everyone around them in those terms. You invite them to make a value judgement of your body, and they begin to make those judgements about others. I speak not just on behalf of women but of everyone on this site. Our culture places way too much value on judgements about people. Is it not enough to just be what you are? Do you have to be "bangable" or "flirty" or have all of these other labels attached to you? And if you do, could you handle that somewhere other than a site for folks who aren't satisfied with their bodies anyways? I realize an ego boost is nice, and I don't mind getting ego boosts every so often, but maybe the place for that is your personal profile or a "hot or not" site.

I can't tell you guys what to post or what to think- the purpose of this post is to invite some discussion about how we create these labels and values for each other and ourselves even as they make us uncomfortable or sad. Many women feel that a "male-dominated culture" has set up these cages of self-judgement for them, but then they go out in pants that say "juicy" across their butts or ask others how hot they are from 1-10. I try really hard to avoid these types of discussions, firstly because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and secondly because I feel that I have value in and of myself, not just when I'm given a number or a name.

What do you guys think? Do you like it when people tell you you're a certain type of person? Do you like it when people rate you? Do you think others like it when you rate them?

Never stop thinking the way you do. Most people will disagree with you, because most people are materialistic,spiritless, possibly intelligent, but marginally intellectual , misguided, animals.

CorvusCorax77

I avoid those threads because I think they're stupid. But it has no effect on me whatsoever if others do. In short, who cares?

Anyone perceptive enough to realize that gender issues are one of the biggest problems in western society.

and they're not in the east?

Might be. Probably are. Dunno. Not much experience with those cultures, and they don't seem to be represented much on MFP.

It doesn't take much reading around to realise that 'gender issues' are a far bigger issue outside of the 'Western world'. Today there are still places where a woman can be stoned to death for being raped...

And, returning to the thread, where women do not have the choice to choose to be objectified freely. Here, I can wear what I want, flaunt what I want and not be killed for it. Perhaps the ability to 'ask to be objectified' at will is a freedom we should be proud of...

This kind of thinking is problematic if we are talking about gender issues. Your "freedom to be objectified" is still limited inside a larger context in which what is considered beautiful is predetermined by a sexist culture. I *do* think there are elements of MFP that are in direct opposition to that mainstream bs, in the sense that we will call someone beautiful after losing 100 lbs that we probably wouldn't consider a supermodel...but there is still the total buying into objectification that impacts all of us.

FireEngineRedHead

*opens thread*
omg this is still happening?

CorvusCorax77

The OP needs to get laid. HARD

NO.

n2thenight24

It's nice to be objectified every now and then, and if you don't think so, you should live a little more

LOL...I read this as "you should shave a little more"

That as well, very much.

trojanbb

*opens thread*
omg this is still happening?

no kidding. This thread is a theatre of the absurd

twelfty

Trust me, my self worth is not being altered by this thread. The point is that I have no problem with people judging me to be worthwhile because they think my ideas and character are good. That's not a problem.

Judging people isn't somehow automatically wrong.

The problem is when people, especially women, are judged based on their appeal as a piece of meat. That's a very different concept.

but you're missing the point?! it's men AND women? this isn't a women post so we can rate you thread we're talking about, infact more men post to get rated themselves

good god...

i'd love to see your reaction if a woman genuinely and completely randomly (without me having said it) as a joke rated you 9 or something you'd probably climax your pantyhose

I think he's extending the point, rather than missing it.

The point is no longer about the rating threads.. it's about judgment of appearance on the whole, and judgment of women's appearances in particular.

Yes, it happens that women are judged based on their appearances, and sometimes (maybe oftentimes) the good looking woman with the nice rack gets hired by the male employer.

BUT... I would stand behind the fact that same male employer would hire a clean cut "unattractive" (based on his judgment) woman over a slovenly dressed man - due to same reasons for discrimination.

And now that there are a lot more women in places in power, I also stand behind the fact that often the converse is true... a good looking, sharply dressed man, will win out over a scrawny, poorly dressed, or "unattractive" male when the employer doing the hiring is female.

People tend to surround themselves with those they are attracted to - regardless of whether that attraction is based on the visual or the intellectual.

extending a point is different to taking it to some wildly inapropriate area

to me getting to "rape culture" from a thread rating the attractiveness of people is a bit like saying people who bite their nails will end up commiting suicide because they clearly self harm

infact i'm not easily offended but having taken part in a couple of these threads i am offended that some little tree hugging hippy thinking he's got womens' backs on this because he can talk complete drivel and make it sound educated and on point thinks he has the right to say i'm part of "rape culture"

and while i wont be losing any sleep over it or reporting it as i couldn't give a toss, i'm most definitely not part of "rape culture" and i think it's disgusting to throw about accusations like that over a bit of fun between both sexes

infact it wouldn't suprise me if he was protesting too much and that he's probably a ****ing rapist himself, he definately talks like one!

CorvusCorax77

Also, I think OP just needs to get laid. Someone volunteer. Some extra cardio for the day...

wow. Yeah. Ok. With all the "she needs to get laid" stuff just because she brought something up, I'm pretty sure this thread went to total *kitten*.

jonnythan

i am offended that some little tree hugging hippy thinking he's got womens' backs on this because he can talk complete drivel and make it sound educated and on point thinks he has the right to say i'm part of "rape culture"

Now you're offended? Oh my.

CorvusCorax77

'People' also need tougher skin when it comes to teasing and not take crap so seriously.

classic playground justification.

I dont' know who you are, but I like the way you think, glovepuppet (so far, i'm just working my way through this thread.)

FireEngineRedHead

i am offended that some little tree hugging hippy thinking he's got womens' backs on this because he can talk complete drivel and make it sound educated and on point thinks he has the right to say i'm part of "rape culture"

Now you're offended? Oh my.

Imagine that.

twelfty

i am offended that some little tree hugging hippy thinking he's got womens' backs on this because he can talk complete drivel and make it sound educated and on point thinks he has the right to say i'm part of "rape culture"

Now you're offended? Oh my.

didn't fancy quoting the rest then?

CorvusCorax77

i'm too lazy to go look for it. there's almost 200 posts in this thread.
what was your original comment?

It was from the previous page.

With all of the truly horrible things that go on in the world, from sex trafficking of minors to genocide to Justin Beiber, I really think that trying to link a couple of obvious flirt threads in a fun and games section of an online forum to the overarching objectification of women and general bias against the obese or ugly in Western culture is a waste of time.

And to your point about video games, that connection has not been established and is arugably a copout for poor parenting, lack of detection of mental illness, and generally poor local role models for young people.

http://jiv.sagepub.com/content/27/15/3016.abstract

jonnythan

i am offended that some little tree hugging hippy thinking he's got womens' backs on this because he can talk complete drivel and make it sound educated and on point thinks he has the right to say i'm part of "rape culture"

Now you're offended? Oh my.

didn't fancy quoting the rest then?

The rest was nonsensical. The part I quoted was funny and ironic.

CorvusCorax77

Rape culture? That's a made up thing right? Something some woman who doesn't get enough male attention invented to explain with other girls are getting attention. I mean looking at a woman or telling her you think she's good looking doesn't mean you want to rape her.

Oh, this guy.

You don't know what rape culture is, Dr. Chimp. And for all your complaining about how pretty girls didn't like you when you were fat, you'd think this is the pot calling the kettle black.

FireEngineRedHead

i am offended that some little tree hugging hippy thinking he's got womens' backs on this because he can talk complete drivel and make it sound educated and on point thinks he has the right to say i'm part of "rape culture"

Now you're offended? Oh my.

didn't fancy quoting the rest then?

The rest was nonsensical. The part I quoted was funny and ironic.

Can I intervene in this love fest?
Twelfty: Really?

milf_n_cookies

*opens thread*
omg this is still happening?

no kidding. This thread is a theatre of the absurd

I'm here just to strare at your profile pic, do you feel objectified? I hope you do, b/c I am objectifying the hell out of you.

BurtHuttz

Both genders participate in the rate/date threads and for the same reasons. Men are equally objectified in such threads. It has nothing to do with gender inequality.

While sexual objectification of women can be a facet of 'rape culture', it is not determinate. Certainly not where there is equitable objectification occurring.

Is it blaming the victim if we say that women who post in a rate/date thread are asking for it?

This is the most absurd thread I've seen on MFP.

FireEngineRedHead

Can we please make a twelfty vs jonnythan fight thread?
Am I objectifying both of you by saying that this heated argument is super hot? =P