Book Club: Women Food and God (Author: Geneen Roth)

pmjsmom

Chapter 6:

Wow. Page 83 really brought tears to my eyes. Again, I was reading this chapter waiting for that “Ah HA!” moment to hit. Boy did it ever!

“When you believe without knowing you believe that you are damaged at your core, you also believe that you need to hide that damage for anyone to love you. You walk around ashamed of being yourself. You try hard to make up for the way you look, walk, feel. Decisions are agonizing because if you, the person who makes the decision, is damaged, then how can you trust what you decide? You doubt your own impulses so you become masterful at looking outside yourself for comfort. You become an expert at finding experts and programs, at striving and trying hard and then harder to change yourself, but this process only reaffirms what you already believe about yourself – that your needs and choices cannot be trusted, and left to your own devices you are out of control.”
I haven’t been comfortable in my own skin in God knows how long. I grew up with a VERY judgmental mother, and I have since become very judgmental. So I then believe that everyone is also judging me, and everyone does to some extent. I’ve tried to change but have failed miserably. Like my mother, it’s easier to put others down than to focus on what’s going on with me. That’s only a small piece of the puzzle I’m sure. In my eyes, no matter what size I get down to, I don’t see myself being happy. I’ll focus on the skin that hangs over my c-section scar that will never go away unless I get surgery. I’ll focus on my nose or my double chin or something else that I know people will judge me for. How do I change this pattern of behavior??? It seems there are sooo many layers of this subject that it’s almost overwhelming. I’m not sure where to start; I don’t know how to change. I don’t know how to NOT see myself as unbroken, as discussed in chapter 5. :sad:

At this point, I almost feel more lost after reading this book. I would love someone else’s view on my responses. Can anyone help?? I’ll go back to chapter 5 in the meantime and re-read these last 2 chapters. Maybe I’ll get the light bulb moment that will help me understand the second time around.

I really don't know if I can shed any light on your responses but I can tell you what I think has worked for me.

When my girls entered their teen years they started having all sorts of the usual doubts about skin, hair, clothing, etc. We talked about how often they REALLY noticed these things on other people, which turned out to be almost never--unless someone was exceptionally different they did not notice if they had a pimple or not, for instance.

I started to listen to my own reassurances and now remind myself that others are noticing my 'faults' just about as much as I am noticing theirs, ie. almost never!

Who, other than your husband or kids--who love you--will be seeing your c-section scar?
When I think of the people I know and love I realize that I don't really remember if they are good-looking or not because to me, since I care about them, they are beautiful!

(I am assuming that your profile picture is you--if so, you are a very beautiful woman and have no need to be worrying about what others may be thinking of you!)

I really don't know if this will help or is even what you are looking for but I hope you know that I care.

Now, for your previous post about needing some quiet time for yourself: You need to listen to Fab50 and TAKE some time! It may seem difficult right now but it can be just a short amount of time at first. (It is so hard to get this time when you have young kids--I know. )
The thing is--now there are times when I have TOO much time for me and sometimes wish for those chaotic years! Peace and joy to you, always.:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:

BeautifulScarsWECHANGED

Thank you so much for your kind words. Your insight really helped...I'm going to marinate on that a little as I re-read chapters 5-6. I need to read 7-8 too! Wow! Lots of reading to do! LOL!

EboniA

Chapter 6:

Wow. Page 83 really brought tears to my eyes. Again, I was reading this chapter waiting for that “Ah HA!” moment to hit. Boy did it ever!

“When you believe without knowing you believe that you are damaged at your core, you also believe that you need to hide that damage for anyone to love you. You walk around ashamed of being yourself. You try hard to make up for the way you look, walk, feel. Decisions are agonizing because if you, the person who makes the decision, is damaged, then how can you trust what you decide? You doubt your own impulses so you become masterful at looking outside yourself for comfort. You become an expert at finding experts and programs, at striving and trying hard and then harder to change yourself, but this process only reaffirms what you already believe about yourself – that your needs and choices cannot be trusted, and left to your own devices you are out of control.”
I haven’t been comfortable in my own skin in God knows how long. I grew up with a VERY judgmental mother, and I have since become very judgmental. So I then believe that everyone is also judging me, and everyone does to some extent. I’ve tried to change but have failed miserably. Like my mother, it’s easier to put others down than to focus on what’s going on with me. That’s only a small piece of the puzzle I’m sure. In my eyes, no matter what size I get down to, I don’t see myself being happy. I’ll focus on the skin that hangs over my c-section scar that will never go away unless I get surgery. I’ll focus on my nose or my double chin or something else that I know people will judge me for. How do I change this pattern of behavior??? It seems there are sooo many layers of this subject that it’s almost overwhelming. I’m not sure where to start; I don’t know how to change. I don’t know how to NOT see myself as unbroken, as discussed in chapter 5. :sad:

At this point, I almost feel more lost after reading this book. I would love someone else’s view on my responses. Can anyone help?? I’ll go back to chapter 5 in the meantime and re-read these last 2 chapters. Maybe I’ll get the light bulb moment that will help me understand the second time around.

Along the same lines as what Kathy said, if you think of your kids saying the things that you say to yourself, I'm sure you would disagree and tell them how beautiful they are. The other thing is that fighting with your image in the mirror isn't working so why not try embracing it and see if you get different results. The same thing with believing you are damaged or broken. What would happen if a very powerful influence in your life said you weren't? You are the most powerful influence in your life and you can make the decision to not be broken any more. No one else sees you that way... not your mother, not your husband, not the checker at the grocery store. Only you do and you have the power to change that.
As for taking time for yourself, Geneen said she made a place in her house (I think it was a blanket on the floor) that was her spot and no one else was allowed there and they couldn't bother her when she was there. After reading that, I got my kids together and told them that I was going to do my workout video and I would be unavailable to help them with anything until I was done. At first they needed me for the smallest things but the more I said no or reminded them that I would do it after my workout, they stopped asking. First you have to want the time or space more thatn anything (you need it and deserve it, by the way). Then tell everyone the plan and stick to it. They adapt... quickly. My kids even join me in working out sometimes so if anyone wants to join you, that could work too. I hope that helps a little.

BeautifulScarsWECHANGED

Thank you E. I had a moment of clairity yesteday....somebody here asked my what was behind my screen name. I responded by saying that I have both physical and emotional scars, and that I've started looking at these scars as life experiences. My C-section scar is a result of my two beautiful children. The scar on my arm a result of running through the house when I was a child. My knee; a bike ride. My emotional scars, my life lessons. As I was typing it the point of chapter 5 and 6 hit me like a ton of bricks. It was right in front of my face the whole time.

I now need to work on not picking myself apart in the mirror and embrace what I see. Like it or not, it's part of me and makes me who I am. I just have to be the best me I can be! :bigsmile:

pinbotchick

Is it too late to join in this discussion? I just downloaded the book from Audible. I'll follow along and read the posts as I read the chapters. It may take a week or 2 to catch up... Would this be a good book for my real bookclub?

BeautifulScarsWECHANGED

Chapter 7:

I noticed this week when I went over my calorie intake was directly due to some conflict occurring in our house. I had been trying to communicate to my husband that I needed more help with the baby. I take care of our son about 99% of the day, and my husband would come home from work (graphic designer, not blue collar) and take a nap on the couch. Meanwhile, I’m doing the whole bit. Cleaning, Cooking, Cleaning, Diaper. Bottle. Cuddle baby. Entertain baby. Cleaning. You get the idea. He claimed taking care of a baby was “exhausting” and that’s why he needed a nap. I reiterated that I do most of the work. I even get up in the middle of the night for the feedings because I’m still on maternity leave and don’t need to be at work. So, I did what I was supposed to do and brought my feelings to his attention, only to have nothing change. So I brought it up again in a different way, no result. This resulted in me craving all the wrong foods and overeating. Boo. So a few days later I just lost it and reamed him a new one, and he got it. He’s been helping me more. LOL!! The point? Apparently I eat when I’m in a situation where I feel helpless. Or as Roth puts it, “There is no possibility of change so I might as well eat.” The stupid thing was, I knew exactly why I was craving these things and tried to put those cravings aside, but did succumb. Argh!

Ok, so now onto the concept of this chapter, and it’s a doozy! “Eat what they want when they’re hungry and to feel what they fell when they’re not.” Wow! It’s so simple, yet so difficult! My first instinct is to not feel….to run away from the feeling. If I ignore it it will go away. Don’t make a big deal out of it, clearly I’m overreacting. This, too, shall pass. After reading this chapter, that’s obviously not a good choice or I wouldn’t be the whale I am today. I think this part is going to be really hard for me. I need to learn to
dive into what I’m feeling and take it apart. Analyze it. Feel it. I guess I’m wondering how I’m supposed to do this without falling into the “poor me” syndrome. I guess practice. Maybe after trying it, it will feel natural.

Roth also writes “To see that the associations we have with feelings are in the past. To see that we avoid feelings because of the story we tell ourselves about them. Grief hurts, sadness hurts, but it’s not the feelings that destroy us. It’s what we tell ourselves about the feelings. It’s that we perceive a present day feeling through historical eyes.” This really resonated with me because I know for a fact I’m guilty of this. I think a lot of people are guilty of this….that’s how we get caught up in negative cycles. I associate my current feelings with the past experiences I have been through. I need to learn to let go of the old stuff in order to process the new stuff. It’s something we are told over and over again, but are never given the tools to actually DO it.

I’m sorry if I quote too much, but I need to put it down in order to process it. I really like the part where Roth writes “Feelings are in the body, reactions are in the head; a reaction is the mental deduction of a feeling. (And beliefs are reactions that we’ve had so many times that we believe they are true.)” I really liked how this was worded! This is something I will constantly have to say to myself.

Chapter 8:

I was so relieved when I first started reading this chapter! I’ve always wanted to meditate because, like Roth, I’ve heard good things about it. But every time I try I get sleepy, bored, my mind races instead of relaxes, etc. I do try and pray at night, but usually it results in the same sort of mind-racing that Roth writes in this chapter. LOL! I’m sooo relieved that I’m not the only one! I always feel guilty when it happens, but then put myself at ease by reassuring myself that “at least I always start out by saying Thank you and I love you”. That’s the most important thing I needed to say right?

I might give this “belly mediation” a chance. :bigsmile:

EboniA

I realized something today. If I haven't said it enough, I hate my job. Well, today I was getting upset about one thing or another and really tried to FEEL it in my body. I couldn't. The anger and frustration was no longer in my body. I used to breathe heavy, get headaches, stomach cramps, and just stress out! Today, I looked for the bodily sensation and it wasn't there anymore. I was still upset about whatever it was but I didn't let it it take over. Unfortunately, that didn't happen when my husband wasn't home right after work. I ate a little too much but I couldn't shake it. I guess I still need to practice.

FabulousFifty

Is it too late to join in this discussion? I just downloaded the book from Audible. I'll follow along and read the posts as I read the chapters. It may take a week or 2 to catch up... Would this be a good book for my real bookclub?

:flowerforyou: Never too late! Welcome! ....would it be a good book for your real book club? Well, it depends on the interest of your club members. If they don't really have issues with food...then probably not. If they are like most of the rest of us....then probably yes! How vague was that for an answer! Maybe after you have read a couple of chapters you can decide if they will enjoy it. It does lead to some good discussions.

FabulousFifty

Chapter 9 - 10 Discussion Points:

Ponder and think about this for a while...G. Roth shares that we need to truly "occupy" our bodies. Some of us are not really taking up residence in our bodies. We don't see our spirits and bodies as one. When we talk about our thighs, it is as if they are on someone else or have a mind of their own! (I think mine do sometimes!) If we take residence somewhere, we want to care for that residence, not annilate it. If we begin to see our spirits and bodies as one, we can decide if this body, in it's current condition, will serve us well. If it does not then we can gently do things to change our body so it does serve us well. We can do things that work for us and fit into our lifestyles.

When we take up residence in our bodies we listen to it and it's needs. We eat when it tells us it is really hungry. We stop when we feel full sensations. We must take time to feel these sensations. Paying attention to these sensations may be new for us, or a part of our past. It takes time and focus to pay attention to what our bodies need. When we feel our bodies tiring, we must give it rest and relaxation. :yawn:

I don't know about you but I think I like this concept Roth presents in these two chapters. I feel I am quite guilty of treating my body like it is not a part of me. This forces me to really look at me. Who am I? How do I deserve to be treated? This is how I am defined....remember from past chapters we are not defined by a bad boss, bad husband, daunting childhood memories, etc. If we believe we are whole and not broken then we must treat our bodies as being whole and healthy. You are worthy of being treated well by others and yourself!

I am so proud of us for being brave enough to take a close look in the mirror and decide who we are. We are well worth it.

Your thoughts?

AmandaB4588

Just want you ladies to know I am still here! I went on vacation for a week and had family over for a few days right after. When I catch up with everything, I will post and respond to all of you.

DeeVaz

Hello ladies,

So glad to have found this site, I came across it purely by accident (or was it?). Saw Oprah's show with Geneen Roth and haven't gotten around to purchasing it, but will DEFINITELY do tomorrow. Would love to be a part of this book club. I've been reading alot of your posts and you all sound like amazing women. I'll be back soon as I start my reading, I think this book IS what I've been searching for. Amazing how the Universe will lead you to what is real. Peace and blessings to everyone.

pmjsmom

I am behnd in my reading--mainly because I find myself rereading lots of the book! I will try to get caught up as soon as I can! I love reading everyone's thoughts about what Geneen has to say.

EboniA

Chapter 9-10: I think this book came along at the perfect time for me because I know HOW to eat right but haven't practiced doing it in a long time. So much has changed in my life since then, like kids, a husband, a live-in mom (my mom). This book is showing me how out of touch I have become with myself. I don't see myself when I look in the mirror... I only see my face, my hair, my stomach but that is not me. At work, I see myself through my mind. At home, I am mom or wife or daughter. I finished school to become an accountant and I want to continue to become a financial planner. Is that who I am? I don't think I know how to define myself yet. Am I still trying to follow the GPS out of the Twighlight Zone? LOL!

So, to quote Oprah: "What I know for sure" is that I am here and I am not broken? Everything else is not going to come to light overnight.

Still pondering...

FabulousFifty

:flowerforyou: Good morning!

This week we begin Part 3 of our book and journey: Eating. Chapter 11 addresses two types of eaters; restrictors and permitters.

Restrictors believe in control. They like to control themselves their food intake, their enviroment and THE WORLD! We all know one or two. They like lists and believe in deprivation as a way to control their weight. For a restrictor, deprivation is comforting. This unhealthy state of mind can lead to anorexia. They believe less is more. Since they are always controlling they can never really relax. Touching home with anyone?

Then we have permitters. Permitters simply merge with their chaos. They have a need to feel safe within hostile or dangerous situations. They have decided that they cannot really control the chaos around them and just become a part of it.. They do this by "becoming blurry and numb and join the party." Roth refers humorously to her "what the he__ __ " friend, who is a permitter. Permitters like company and often get you to join in with them when they are enjoying their dessert first or the second bottle of wine!

Sadly, permitters and restrictors believe there is not enough to go around and that they won't get what they need. Both are a type of compulsive eating. Restrictors control and permitters numb themselves. If you are trying to decide whether you are one or another, stop. Roth says we gravitate to both. A restrictor turns into a permitter the moment she binges. A permitter becomes a restrictor when she starts another program to finally lose the weight. I think just realizing that we have these predispositions and giving them a name may reveal something about your relationship with food. You may see yourself more predisposed as one or another. You may do well when you are around one type of person or another.

This week let's think about these predispositions and how it has affected our own relationship with food. I know we have both but I think my dominant predisposition is a permitter. I am more of a free spirit. I do tend to numb myself with food rather than deal with tough issues head-on. I do not like conflict. I avoid it all costs. I don't do well around my free-spirited friends. We encourage each other to be out of control! We feed off of each other but love each other dearly. I am intrigued by my organized friends who are strict with themselves and in-control of every aspect of their lives. I don't get them but I try to be like them. It is not going to happen. But I have "copped" some great tips by watching them. I have all of the right equipment and tools to be like them. I am just not "wired" like them. Thanks God!

I believe God made me like I am for a reason. I am creative and helpful. I am a giver and optimistic. I see that cup half full. BUT, I am a fretter and a worrier. You don't need to worry because I will do it for you. Instead of facing big problems, I worry and fret and medicate that with food. I have really hit something important by reading and pondering on Chapter 11 and 12. I believe I am moving into what Chapter 12 discusses....freedome from obsession. This involves trust...in myself and my choices and in others. I know I have trust issues.

What are your thoughts on Chapter 11 and 12. I am wishing you a blessed week and weekend. Chew on this a while and post your thoughts and comment on someone else's thoughts.

All the best,
Fab

EboniA

Chapter 11: I had to fall off the wagon to figure this out. I am an accountant so I like rules and order but this does not make me a restrictor with my food... or much else. I AM A PERMITTER. It really explains how I can create spreadsheets and guidelines for eating and exercise but never follow them! I'm ok for a week or two but end up convincing myself that the restriction is not worth it. I don't want to live like that forever. I like hamburgers so I eat them. I choose to make 1/2 turkey, 1/2 beef burgers but I won't ever stop eating burgers (oh, end-of-month lunch at work today is hamburgers:laugh: ). This past weekend was really, really bad for me. I got stressed about losing 4 more lbs in one week for the June challenge. Instead of buckling down, I went buck wild on the fast food and bad choices. I'm glad I can recognize this pattern now so I won't try to be so rigid.

I don't remember ch 12 so I will need to look at it again. I don't know how anyone gets through this journey without this book! Thanks again for this topic Fab! :flowerforyou:

EboniA

Ok, so I read chapter 12 again. Sometimes I can eat what my body needs and not overdo it but other times I lose control. To describe it, it feels like a familiar comfort to eat and eat. The food tastes really good and I am truly comforted. THEN I start to feel fuller and fuller, and stuffed, and UNcomfortable! Geneen even says it takes awhile to unlearn this habit. I'm proud that I can accept it without beating myself up. I think that is what chapter 12 is about. Always being kind to ourselves and treating ourselves with love. I realize it's going to take practice and patience. It's a little conflicting to join challenges when I'm a permitter because I just end up blowing it. I'm going to need to set my goals lower so they are a no brainer. It's worth a try since I've never tried it before.

Sharon: A good friend of mine is a giver like you and numbs with food too. Just remember that people love you because of who you are and not for what you do for them. As far as trust, didn't Geneer say if you believe you are whole, you can trust yourself. I still think it takes practice and patience. :flowerforyou:

FabulousFifty

Ok....I am still chewing on our previous chapters but it is time to ponder our last couple of chapters. After reading Chapters 13 and 14 let's discuss these points:

New rule: You can have what you want. Geneen R. states that your spirit of rebellion will dissapear when you give yourself this permission to eat, within limits, what you want. By easing into this state the compulsion to overeat, binge, and other bad habits should go away. We should begin to discover that when we eat certain foods we feel better. Also, that we can live without certain foods. In a sense, you get your life back. Food and it's compulsions no longer control you. I find this comforting. I am heading in this direction. Hmmmm....eating to nourish yourself......loving yourself with food.....I think I can live this way. I am worth it and you are too!

The guidelines: Your guidelines are really just being aware of your feelings and sensations. Are you truly hungry? What are you hungry for? Are you full??? Satisfied???? Somewhere in between???? Roth says when you pay attention to this you end the obsessions because awareness and obsessions cannot coexist. Do you buy into this? I believe it. I think it is something we did as small children and have gotten away from it. I believe, if we let it, our bodies would tell us what it needs and how much it needs. I am willing to try to be more aware and let go of obsessing about food.

What, if anything, have you learned from this book? I have learned to stop and experience my feelings. I am learning to face these feelings rather than just reacting to them. Reacting to them in the past has been to practice feeding them or numbing myself by binging. I have also learned to listen to my body. I don't have to eat by the clock or make sure I have 3 square meals a day. I can listen to my body and eat when I am hungry, and stop when I feel comfortable and satisfied. I have learned to love my body and self and do this by feeding it what it needs to thrive and be healthy. I have learned that my value is not determined by how someone reacts to me. Yes, I think it was worth the read! How about you?

pmjsmom

I just want you to know that I haven't forgotten this group. I have been busy with the new grandson and my daughter and family visiting, etc., etc., etc.

I am reading the book still but I have to admit that not much after the meditation chapter seems to apply to me--so far, anyway! Maybe I have been so busy that I'm not really comprehending what I read.

I am copying the discussion topics into a Word document so that I can think about them as I read and I will try to get caught up as soon as I can.

FabulousFifty

Eboni: I know what you mean...it will take practice to not go out of control. I think you are giving yourself permission to enjoy things withhin reason and with this comes a release from obsession and compulsive eating. BUT...I understand about taking some time and practice. I get that. I have some bad habits that haunt me from time to time. I still find myself wandering in the kitchen when I am bored or tired. This is just a habit for me. But....I will get there....I have the tools and understand myself better now......I am glad we took this journey together!:flowerforyou:

PMJs mom: good idea to print these topics out and think on them. Then respond later. Love that idea. Thanks!:flowerforyou:

EboniA

Well, I have some thoughts on the final chapters. I had another aha moment in chapter 14, "what will kill her is wanting another life than the one she has". It clicked in my head that I have been "dieting" to get to a life other than my own. What I really need to do is embrace my situation, my life, as it is. That doesn't mean giving up, that means keeping focus on my goals while accepting where I am now. It's like working toward career goals or money saving goals, it's not a separate thing. It's something that you incorporate into your life so you can learn and grow. It has made choosing what's good for me easier.

I hope everyone else is able to get something out of this book. I'd still like to discuss the book at whatever pace anyone else wants.