what's too much protein when bulking?

FunkyTobias

In that picture I had an LBM of 230 or so.

I call bull**** on that. Arnold Schwarzenegger is 6'2" and at the peak of his bodybuilding career during contest he weighed 235 with 4-5% body fat. That puts his lean body mass at just under 224 pounds.

http://www.bodybuilders.com/arnold.htm



ETA: Lean body mass includes ligaments, tendons and other connective tissues. At higher body fat percentage you could have had that much lean body mass, but it wasn't due to muscle. I know you used to weigh 400 pounds and your body had extra lean mass at that time that it needed to haul the extra weight around. So, high lean body mass does not always mean weight/strength training.

I was actually at 295lbs when those starts where taking. A personal trainer buddy of mine who took the nasm with me would measure my body fat with calipers. He would measure me around 20% at the time.

So do the math,. 236lbs of LBM. Now I do agree with you, it's hard to believe. That's what the numbers showed though... He would measure me on weekly basis and they where consistent. One time he wasn't there and another friend measured me. He measured me at like 28%. Which brings me at 230lbs of LBM.

Did I look like arnold? Not even close... I don't know what to tell you.

Anyone could get a NASM certification and not know how to properly use calipers, I've seen it. Based on all of your pictures your body fat was much higher than 20%. You don't need calipers to see it. Your math is wrong if you are saying 295 pounds with 28% (which would be closer to true). 295 pounds with 28% fat puts you at 212 pounds LBM.

Did you look like Arnold? Not even close because you didn't have 230 pounds of lean mass. As you stated it is hard to believe, because it wasn't true.

Yes your right, my math was wrong. I was doing it in my head... Okay so call it 212.

Not even close.

According to your own post, you looked like this at 250



This is between 25% and 30% LBM, which would put you between 175 and 187lbs LBM.

If you had 212lbs LBM at 296, then over half the weight you lost was LBM. If this was the case, then you need to stop advising others about their protein intake.

jofjltncb6

I'm literally speechless at this point.

^this

Sarauk2sf

<--- my pic is about 2 weeks old if anyone is interested - 10lb into my bulk, which I started after losing 37lb over about a year. I posted my progress pics in my success thread...

Sarauk2sf

<--- my pic is about 2 weeks old if anyone is interested - 10lb into my bulk, which I started after losing 37lb over about a year. I posted my progress pics in my success thread...

I will apologize to you if you feel the need to say this. That wasn't my intention. I know you and sidesteel put your work in. I just feel that sometimes you guys attack me, and of course I'd get defensive about it. When i said this,i was obviously just talking crap.

Pu, we do not attack you, we disagree with your stance on things. However, thank you for the apology.

DatMurse

I think this thread has pretty well run it's course. Somebody claiming that their nutrition/training regime is superior, calling out Sara and SideSteel for "no results in two years", then posting those pics as "proof". I guess it's really, really true that a picture is worth a thousand words.

I didn't mention anyone name. The guy beachiron(mad because he tried to punk me last time and it didn't go well for him.) He said, "listen to people who have pictures to prove their success" or something along those lines. That's a really bad indicator. 1 you have no idea how old pictures are. That's what i learned on here. Some people on here might be posting pictures 3yrs old. The picture of me in the blue hat, i could say that's my current picture, no one would know. I have seen many of these people around for a while now. They look the same day in and day out... not trying to be rude or anything, it's the truth. That isn't success, success is constantly improving yourself "year after year."

If you're talking about my pics i posted... It was to answer that guys questions, about my lower LBM.

who is beachiron?

cmriverside

-deleted- moderators handled it. thanks

Just so we're clear here.

Pu, ANY TIME someone challenges you in any significant way, you'll get their post deleted? Kind of like Dan deleting your posts about, "I rewrote IPOARM"?

You have derailed this thread enough. You've totally highjacked the OP's thread.

Make your own thread with your so-called "Progress pictures."

Ask in your thread what peoples' qualifications and degrees are in. Do your attacking in your Private Group.

Fercryinoutloud, Pu. What is going on with you? We've heard your medical history eleventy seven times. Enough already.


I apologize to the OP for this ....whole last three pages. We don't know what's going on, either.

kms1320

40% protein macro, always between 1-1.5g / 1lb lbm

started at 300, about 35% bf, I had around 195lbs lbm:



currently at 214, and 12% bf, I am at about 188lbs lbm:



So, I know the sample size is really small and not scientific data by any means, but lifting weights, eating at a deficit, and overdoing the protein, I STILL lost 8 lbs lbm.

If I were bulking, why in the world would I short myself on protein? If you're going to eat at a surplus, you're going to gain some fat too, what does it matter if it's extra carbs or extra protein that is converted to fat? But you do need enouogh carbs for the workouts too.. I'd still err on the side of too much protein.

kms1320

Those are good results, a loss of 8LBM isn't to bad. Do you think your results would have been different if you reduced the protein and added more carbs??? Carbs are muscle sparing as well, just like protein.

Honestly I don't know. I'm not an expert on it at all. I just know that I was tearing down muscle, and I needed to rebuild it. Building muscle requires a surplus of complete proteins, ie: all BCAA profiles, and I didn't want to short myself. What was left in my calories, which wasn't enough after getting my essential fats, went to carbs. I admit I felt sluggish a lot, and I could have used more carbs. If I were bulking, most of the calorie increase would be from carbs. But that's only based on my own personal opinion.

usmcmp

Keep in mind i was sick around this time. I got sick around september, but it got really bad in january. This was around christmas time so of course i lost LBM. I remember around this time my weight was around 250-265. Lets use a picture when i wasn't sick...



estimate my bodyfat % there...

ETA: BTW my current total weight is 210lbs or so. As i mentioned above like 3x, I lost a lot of LBM due to illness.

30%. Which would put your LBM at 175-185.

usmcmp

Keep in mind i was sick around this time. I got sick around september, but it got really bad in january. This was around christmas time so of course i lost LBM. I remember around this time my weight was around 250-265. Lets use a picture when i wasn't sick...



estimate my bodyfat % there...

ETA: BTW my current total weight is 210lbs or so. As i mentioned above like 3x, I lost a lot of LBM due to illness.

30%. Which would put your LBM at 175-185.

Correct on Bodyfat, incorrect on LBM.

You stated above that your weight was 250-265.

zenJes

The thing about protein is you will only need as much as you need and the rest just goes out of your system.. so if your going to the gym n ripping it up hard you are going to need alot more than if you are just sitting at home..

usmcmp

250-265 pounds and 25% body fat. 187-198. Big lean mass drop there.

OP: Experiment on your own to find out what works for you! Only you know your body and only you will be able to tell if your macros are not working for your goals.

jofjltncb6

The thing about protein is you will only need as much as you need and the rest just goes out of your system.. so if your going to the gym n ripping it up hard you are going to need alot more than if you are just sitting at home..

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say that this differs from my understanding.

Are you saying that if I eat a calorie surplus, the carbs can be stored as fat...and fat can be stored as fat...but excess protein can't be stored as fat? That protein is actually passed out of the system without having been fully digested?

And yet, low carb diets (including those which are high protein) have not been shown to be significantly beneficial for weight loss.

How can these two points be reconciled?

chrisdavey

40% protein macro, always between 1-1.5g / 1lb lbm

started at 300, about 35% bf, I had around 195lbs lbm:


currently at 214, and 12% bf, I am at about 188lbs lbm:

So, I know the sample size is really small and not scientific data by any means, but lifting weights, eating at a deficit, and overdoing the protein, I STILL lost 8 lbs lbm.

If I were bulking, why in the world would I short myself on protein? If you're going to eat at a surplus, you're going to gain some fat too, what does it matter if it's extra carbs or extra protein that is converted to fat? But you do need enouogh carbs for the workouts too.. I'd still err on the side of too much protein.

You lost a total of 86lbs. 78lbs of fat and 8lbs LBM or in otherwords about 90% of weight lost was fat. That is the definition of doing it right. Well done.

And the reasoning for going higher in protein in a deficit is because you are more likely to lose LBM in a deficit (obviously than a surplus). You could call it catabolism insurance.

Sarauk2sf

40% protein macro, always between 1-1.5g / 1lb lbm

started at 300, about 35% bf, I had around 195lbs lbm:


currently at 214, and 12% bf, I am at about 188lbs lbm:

So, I know the sample size is really small and not scientific data by any means, but lifting weights, eating at a deficit, and overdoing the protein, I STILL lost 8 lbs lbm.

If I were bulking, why in the world would I short myself on protein? If you're going to eat at a surplus, you're going to gain some fat too, what does it matter if it's extra carbs or extra protein that is converted to fat? But you do need enouogh carbs for the workouts too.. I'd still err on the side of too much protein.

You lost a total of 86lbs. 78lbs of fat and 8lbs LBM or in otherwords about 90% of weight lost was fat. That is the definition of doing it right. Well done.

And the reasoning for going higher in protein in a deficit is because you are more likely to lose LBM in a deficit (obviously than a surplus). You could call it catabolism insurance.

Agreed. And I like the bolded term.

BeachIron

I think this thread has pretty well run it's course. Somebody claiming that their nutrition/training regime is superior, calling out Sara and SideSteel for "no results in two years", then posting those pics as "proof". I guess it's really, really true that a picture is worth a thousand words.

I didn't mention anyone name. The guy beachiron(mad because he tried to punk me last time and it didn't go well for him.) He said, "listen to people who have pictures to prove their success" or something along those lines. That's a really bad indicator. 1 you have no idea how old pictures are. That's what i learned on here. Some people on here might be posting pictures 3yrs old. The picture of me in the blue hat, i could say that's my current picture, no one would know. I have seen many of these people around for a while now. They look the same day in and day out... not trying to be rude or anything, it's the truth. That isn't success, success is constantly improving yourself "year after year."

If you're talking about my pics i posted... It was to answer that guys questions, about my lower LBM.

PU, you've claimed at various times to be a trained boxer, a hacker, a scientist and now this latest one with muscle mass that you obviously don't have. I have nothing personal against you, never have, it's just at some point you need to take an honest assessment of yourself and stop trying to be something that you clearly are not. Your PMs to me the last time were laughable and it was then that I became convinced that you live in your mom's basement. Personally, IDGF, but really just stop embarrassing yourself.

MyChocolateDiet

I think this thread has pretty well run it's course. Somebody claiming that their nutrition/training regime is superior, calling out Sara and SideSteel for "no results in two years", then posting those pics as "proof". I guess it's really, really true that a picture is worth a thousand words.

I didn't mention anyone name. The guy beachiron(mad because he tried to punk me last time and it didn't go well for him.) He said, "listen to people who have pictures to prove their success" or something along those lines. That's a really bad indicator. 1 you have no idea how old pictures are. That's what i learned on here. Some people on here might be posting pictures 3yrs old. The picture of me in the blue hat, i could say that's my current picture, no one would know. I have seen many of these people around for a while now. They look the same day in and day out... not trying to be rude or anything, it's the truth. That isn't success, success is constantly improving yourself "year after year."

If you're talking about my pics i posted... It was to answer that guys questions, about my lower LBM.

PU, you've claimed at various times to be a trained boxer, a hacker, a scientist and now this latest one with muscle mass that you obviously don't have. I have nothing personal against you, never have, it's just at some point you need to take an honest assessment of yourself and stop trying to be something that you clearly are not. Your PMs to me the last time were laughable and it was then that I became convinced that you live in your mom's basement. Personally, IDGF, but really just stop embarrassing yourself.

DatMurse

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

Sarauk2sf

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

Orly? Who are *they* out of interest?

DatMurse

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

that wasnt me

what have you debunked from me?
your protein studies you linked about your LBM was just ridiculous