what's too much protein when bulking?

DatMurse

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

Orly?

Yes still waiting for someone to tell me they cut down their protein and lost muscle mass. It's "my papers against your papers" so the only thing left is experience... I have been waiting all day. Anyone who has challenged anything I have said on the subject.

I have challenged your experience but you got it deleted.
You still follow off of calipers and believe that they are a proper way of measuring LBM. After you stated that, that means you dont know how LBM is properly measured.

Using inaccurate forms of measurement = / = cant determine your LBM.
Your experience has been flawed

AnvilHead

The thing about protein is you will only need as much as you need and the rest just goes out of your system.. so if your going to the gym n ripping it up hard you are going to need alot more than if you are just sitting at home..

Google "gluconeogenesis". You're welcome.

Sarauk2sf

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

Orly?

Yes still waiting for someone to tell me they cut down their protein and lost muscle mass. It's "my papers against your papers" so the only thing left is experience... I have been waiting all day. Anyone who has challenged anything I have said on the subject.

Lolol - nice selective interpretation...as usual. Where is your debunking? Of everything? Or even anything?

DatMurse

The thing about protein is you will only need as much as you need and the rest just goes out of your system.. so if your going to the gym n ripping it up hard you are going to need alot more than if you are just sitting at home..

if only that was true I would be scarfing down chicken breast when I was hungry and then dieting would be alot easier. nom sayin?

chrisdavey

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

Orly?

Yes still waiting for someone to tell me they cut down their protein and lost muscle mass. It's "my papers against your papers" so the only thing left is experience... I have been waiting all day. Anyone who has challenged anything I have said on the subject.

What sort of self experiences are you after?

I've got a lot of data from years of training. My protein intake is typically 1-1.3g/lb of BW. Holding LBM just fine. Gaining when I'm in surplus.

And no I'm not prepared to drop it to .5g/lb for experimentation because:
A) I'm competing in powerlifting and strongman
I can't see any possible benefits from dropping P in favour of C or F when I already consume plenty of both.
C) I like meat :laugh:

Sarauk2sf

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

Orly?

Yes still waiting for someone to tell me they cut down their protein and lost muscle mass. It's "my papers against your papers" so the only thing left is experience... I have been waiting all day. Anyone who has challenged anything I have said on the subject.

Lolol - nice selective interpretation...as usual. Where is your debunking? Of everything? Or even anything?

You recommend 1g of protein minimum to maintain/gain LBM. FALSE, i done less... and maintained.

*sigh* You really are not good at applying context at all are you? And we already went through this..

DatMurse

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

Orly?

Yes still waiting for someone to tell me they cut down their protein and lost muscle mass. It's "my papers against your papers" so the only thing left is experience... I have been waiting all day. Anyone who has challenged anything I have said on the subject.

I have challenged your experience but you got it deleted.
You still follow off of calipers and believe that they are a proper way of measuring LBM. After you stated that, that means you dont know how LBM is properly measured.

Using inaccurate forms of measurement = / = cant determine your LBM.
Your experience has been flawed

You recommended DEXA.... DEXA can be inaccurate. I thought you knew science? See the problem? (debunked)

Like all other body fat estimation techniques, DEXA has numerous sources of error. There can be inconsistent results between different machines from different manufacturers, and even different results between machines from the same manufacturer. Software upgrades can change the algorithms that the device uses to calculate body composition. Different hardware and software configurations can result in different interpolations of soft tissue over bone, and different treatment of pixels of which a small portion is bone. The type of X-ray beam (fan beam or pencil beam) can also be a source of error; DEXA machines with fan beams can suffer from beam magnification (also known as parallax error). A final source of error is the same error that all 2-compartment models also have: the hydration of fat-free mass. In fact, a 5% variation in fat-free mass hydration can change your DEXA-determined body fat percentage by nearly 3%. This can be a problem when comparing different ethnicities or body types where fat-free mass hydration can vary. It can also be a problem when trying to measure change over time.

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=260

This little chart you posted



This is not correct because ammonia has an equilibrium constant, it's temperature dependent, ammonia may not even be produced at all, depends on the temperature. SO your chart is wrong, (debunked)

2% is minor compared to calipers which skill is dependent upon the person. Even then it doesnt take visceral fat into account.

You were more than 30% bodyfat. more like 35%+.

someone at 30% bodyfat would not have as much loose skin as you did. I was 30% bodyfat in my first progress pic at 235 and did look anything like you.

My first caliper measurements said I was 18% body fat at 215. That was before I even touched weights. LOL
Ammonia may not be produced at all? According to what?

LOL

DatMurse

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

Orly?

Yes still waiting for someone to tell me they cut down their protein and lost muscle mass. It's "my papers against your papers" so the only thing left is experience... I have been waiting all day. Anyone who has challenged anything I have said on the subject.

Lolol - nice selective interpretation...as usual. Where is your debunking? Of everything? Or even anything?

You recommend 1g of protein minimum to maintain/gain LBM. FALSE, i done less... and maintained.

what physique?

usmcmp

You recommend 1g of protein minimum to maintain/gain LBM. FALSE, i done less... and maintained.

I hope it wasn't when you dropped from 300 to 265 in these pictures.

this is where i was 250-265lbs

You dropped from 30% to 25% in these pictures, but your LBM went from 212 to 198. That's a loss of 35 pounds, 21 pounds of fat and 14 pounds of lean mass meaning your loss was 60% fat and 40% lean mass.

I eat at least 1 gram of protein per pound of lean mass and I've gone from 217 pounds and 41% fat to 150 pounds and 18% fat. I only lost 5 pounds of lean mass and dropped 67 pounds total.

DatMurse

You recommend 1g of protein minimum to maintain/gain LBM. FALSE, i done less... and maintained.

I hope it wasn't when you dropped from 300 to 265 in these pictures.

this is where i was 250-265lbs

You dropped from 30% to 25% in these pictures, but your LBM went from 212 to 198. That's a loss of 35 pounds, 21 pounds of fat and 14 pounds of lean mass meaning your loss was 60% fat and 40% lean mass.

I eat at least 1 gram of protein per pound of lean mass and I've gone from 217 pounds and 41% fat to 150 pounds and 18% fat. I only lost 5 pounds of lean mass and dropped 67 pounds total.

You forget he used calipers on someone of his size.
Calipers are already very ineffective. the bigger you are the more room there is to be wrong

usmcmp

You recommend 1g of protein minimum to maintain/gain LBM. FALSE, i done less... and maintained.

I hope it wasn't when you dropped from 300 to 265 in these pictures.

this is where i was 250-265lbs

You dropped from 30% to 25% in these pictures, but your LBM went from 212 to 198. That's a loss of 35 pounds, 21 pounds of fat and 14 pounds of lean mass meaning your loss was 60% fat and 40% lean mass.

I eat at least 1 gram of protein per pound of lean mass and I've gone from 217 pounds and 41% fat to 150 pounds and 18% fat. I only lost 5 pounds of lean mass and dropped 67 pounds total.

You forget he used calipers on someone of his size.
Calipers are already very ineffective. the bigger you are the more room there is to be wrong

You're right. Calipers assume that 50% of the fat mass is visceral. Someone starting out at 400 pounds or even 300 pounds would make calipers highly inaccurate since the distribution is not equal between visceral and subcutaneous. Excellent point.

Sarauk2sf

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

Orly?

Yes still waiting for someone to tell me they cut down their protein and lost muscle mass. It's "my papers against your papers" so the only thing left is experience... I have been waiting all day. Anyone who has challenged anything I have said on the subject.

Lolol - nice selective interpretation...as usual. Where is your debunking? Of everything? Or even anything?

You recommend 1g of protein minimum to maintain/gain LBM. FALSE, i done less... and maintained.

*sigh* You really are not good at applying context at all are you? And we already went through this..

You're right it's about context. Setting 1g minimum would be false in certain contexts. So the question is, "is 1g of protein minimum required?" Yes or No? The obvious answer is No. claims that "could be true" or "may not be true" really have no basis in science.

you can reword it... "protein intake per lbs of LBM should be 0-10g" is this true? YES. problem solved. You shouldn't have a fixed number when things are context dependent.

OMFG....you still cannot apply context.

Sarauk2sf

Let's talk about context:

and to be honest, looking at your pictures. The higher BF% you are at the less protein is actually needed to maintain lean body mass.

Fuel availabilty is a factor on top of protein intake on where the energy is pulled from

Your response

I do agree with you to some extent. We also have to take in to consideration protein intake vs cutting and and bulking... Plus different body fat % (as you mentioned).

The leaner you are the more protein you need I'll give you that, also when you're cutting you need more protein(supposedly). I do agree with that, but the question is "how much?" the common recommendations are to high IMO. Nothing wrong with them, they work, I rather be eating something else then trying to "get my macros" in.

Hmmmm...debunked?

oh, and

you:

I don't know the condition of the OP but for example if he's severely over weight

Where it is clear that the OP is not overweight and is looking to bulk (it says so in the title ffs).


And, you have mentioned my 'cookie cutter' recommendations before and I have clarified on a number of occasions, but it appears you have a very very short memory. I have pointed you to the thread I did and the fact that it mentions the cases where lower amounts would be ok (hint: higher BF%).

Where is the debunking again?

usmcmp

When i was at 400lbs i was like 38% bodyfat I believe.

No possible way. I am 5'9" and weighed 217 pounds with 42% body fat. Mine was accurate because it was tested by both hydrostatic and dexa scan. You weighed almost twice as much as I did, there is no way your body fat was lower than mine.

400lbs

Sarauk2sf

I dont think PU actually realizes his presentation of information and general attitude is a problem with this community. Everyone has had a problem with his presentation of information and all of his claims
"If you cant spot the crazy person, its you"

You mean they're mad because I debunk everything they say... Oh that reminds how can protein be stored??? You where bashing that women about it. I am curious.

Orly?

Yes still waiting for someone to tell me they cut down their protein and lost muscle mass. It's "my papers against your papers" so the only thing left is experience... I have been waiting all day. Anyone who has challenged anything I have said on the subject.

Lolol - nice selective interpretation...as usual. Where is your debunking? Of everything? Or even anything?

You recommend 1g of protein minimum to maintain/gain LBM. FALSE, i done less... and maintained.

*sigh* You really are not good at applying context at all are you? And we already went through this..

You're right it's about context. Setting 1g minimum would be false in certain contexts. So the question is, "is 1g of protein minimum required?" Yes or No? The obvious answer is No. claims that "could be true" or "may not be true" really have no basis in science.

you can reword it... "protein intake per lbs of LBM should be 0-10g" is this true? YES. problem solved. You shouldn't have a fixed number when things are context dependent.

OMFG....you still cannot apply context.

I did.... 0-10g fits all contexts. yours only fits certain contexts. Mine is more accurate.

So 0g fits some? Orly?

I have to say, that is a very helpful response.

Poster: how much protein should I have

Response: oh, somewhere between 0 - 10g per lb of LBM

Oh, and that is not the context I was referring to btw.

usmc01462

I do about 100 grams of protein and thats alot for me and im 260lbs

Warchortle

It really depends on a lot of factors that no one on this forum can answer for you because of certain choices someone can make while training. If you decide you want to go paleo or ketogenic you'll be well over 1g per : lb of lbm and depending on your current lbm and bf% you may need more just to keep a balanced diet at a higher caloric intake.

usmc01462

And I follow a vegan diet..

AnvilHead

I did.... 0-10g fits all contexts. yours only fits certain contexts. Mine is more accurate.

Curious - under what context(s) would you recommend 10g/lb LBM, and why? Same question for 0g/lb LBM. I'm very interested to hear your educated scientific opinion of when such intakes would be appropriate. Context is obviously very important.

usmcmp

I do about 100 grams of protein and thats alot for me and im 260lbs

Are you being sarcastic???

You keep saying people don't need 1 gram per pound LBM, but someone states they are eating lower levels of protein and you question it?