My Pizza Day Experiment - A Comparison
Replies
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I dunno. Seems to me that the only thing you proved here was that "pizza and nothing but pizza" is not a good diet plan :laugh:
johnnythan - one quick question before I stop wasting my time on this idiocy...do you think micronutrients unimportant?
Absolutely not. Of course they're important.0 -
You are allowing one sector of extremists to define an entire group of people.
and he's free to feel however he wants about "clean eating" - however, everything he said there about IIFYM, I agree with.
You *still* do not get it. Those people are NOT hitting their macros and therefore are not applying IIFYM.
Selective call to authority there!
"Now that said, I do believe that many IIFYMers actually go too far in one direction."
Layne refers to them as IIFYMers.
so... are they or are they not?
That's akin to saying all Germans are Nazi's, all Muslims are terrorists, all Mexicans are members of the Zeta.... You get the point.
That's just ridiculous. In every group of people, who have extremists who take an ideal too far. IIFYM is no different. Yet you choose to pretend that ALL IIFYMers eat nothing but junk and use IIFYM as an excuse to eat nothing but junk. Quite frankly, both you AND jonnythan's incessant arguing has grown tiresome and it just makes both of you look like children in a schoolyard who don't know how to share the sandbox.
You want to eat clean. He doesn't. What he does has zero effect on your success, and what you do has zero effect on him. It'd be one thing if you two could agree to respectfully disagree, yet you both go after each other, time and time again.
Kids, it's time to grow the hell up.
Thank you!
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guys i'm not talking about pizza as a food, which, just like ANYTHING ELSE has millions of variations that range from dominos and pizza hut bad to whole wheat or cauliflower crust with veggies galore - which are obviously much more nutritious. that's NOT what I'm talking about
frankly, this isn't even about PIZZA itself, simply testing the idea that you can get proper micro nutrition from fast foods. the pizza was just the easiest and cheapest way to go about doing that.
Which nutrients were missing in the end btw?
Probably some Vitamin K and other random nutrients that no one thinks about but him.
To OP:
I really have nothing valid to add but that.
You also might want to vary your fast food choices and see if it comes out the same.
Any good researcher knows that you can't only do one study and draw a conclusion on a topic.
i'm... not a researcher. it was just a one day thing that i did on a whim. lol
and ... um... you should look into that pesky vitamin K. it... ya know... might actually be really important. but what do i know? i'm not a researcher.
ok, using your methodology...
tomorrow, i will drink water with lemon in it. that's 100% clean, right?
the day after, i will drink nothing but Arby's milkshakes made with real ice cream. that's decidedly not clean and considered "unhealthy" by your standards.
on tuesday, i will check and see which day's intake gave me the most Vitamin B12 and Calcium. i will determine which intake is preferable solely on this simple comparison.
see except I kept the calories and macros consistent. guess i'm a better researcher than you!
You ate 3,000 something calories on Friday and 2,000 on Saturday.. So you only kept the macro's consistent.
If you ate the same amount of calories on both days, then you could say that you kept calories and macro's consistant.
Nice try and thanks for playing.
this is awkward... those aren't the days i was comparing in the original post... yikes.
might wanna work on that reading comprehension.
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You are allowing one sector of extremists to define an entire group of people.
and he's free to feel however he wants about "clean eating" - however, everything he said there about IIFYM, I agree with.
You *still* do not get it. Those people are NOT hitting their macros and therefore are not applying IIFYM.
Selective call to authority there!
"Now that said, I do believe that many IIFYMers actually go too far in one direction."
Layne refers to them as IIFYMers.
so... are they or are they not?
That's akin to saying all Germans are Nazi's, all Muslims are terrorists, all Mexicans are members of the Zeta.... You get the point.
That's just ridiculous. In every group of people, who have extremists who take an ideal too far. IIFYM is no different. Yet you choose to pretend that ALL IIFYMers eat nothing but junk and use IIFYM as an excuse to eat nothing but junk. Quite frankly, both you AND jonnythan's incessant arguing has grown tiresome and it just makes both of you look like children in a schoolyard who don't know how to share the sandbox.
You want to eat clean. He doesn't. What he does has zero effect on your success, and what you do has zero effect on him. It'd be one thing if you two could agree to respectfully disagree, yet you both go after each other, time and time again.
Kids, it's time to grow the hell up.
i think the issue is that we both want to offer advice to people who are looking for it and to help people out, but we both find the other person's advice to be really bad advice. haha0 -
I dunno. Seems to me that the only thing you proved here was that "pizza and nothing but pizza" is not a good diet plan :laugh:
johnnythan - one quick question before I stop wasting my time on this idiocy...do you think micronutrients unimportant?
Absolutely not. Of course they're important.
so you make sure yours are solid on a daily basis?0 -
you didn't answer the question. why does he use the word "clean" to mean different things each time he uses it?
I don't think he does. You're the one who made the "he uses clean to mean whole foods" assumption. He never uses the term whole foods. He says if you're hitting your macros you're eating clean food.
Let me repeat that:
The quote, which you paste over and over, literally says if you're hitting your macros you're eating clean food.
this is not the case.0 -
To note, potassium info is missing for lots of foods, including pizza.
so then by the same token, my 4,600+ day should be higher too, yes?
Quite possibly which sucks for you because too much potassium is actually harmful.
Too much cocaine is harmful too. What's your point?
Ahh, in for cocaine in moderation . . .
lolwut?0 -
To note, potassium info is missing for lots of foods, including pizza.
so then by the same token, my 4,600+ day should be higher too, yes?
Quite possibly which sucks for you because too much potassium is actually harmful.
Too much cocaine is harmful too. What's your point?
Ahh, in for cocaine in moderation . . .
lolwut?
I know right! That was a serious leap right there.0 -
I dunno. Seems to me that the only thing you proved here was that "pizza and nothing but pizza" is not a good diet plan :laugh:
johnnythan - one quick question before I stop wasting my time on this idiocy...do you think micronutrients unimportant?
Absolutely not. Of course they're important.
so you make sure yours are solid on a daily basis?
No, I honestly don't pay that much attention to them. I think it's pointless to obsess over that stuff. What I do is try to make sure I eat a variety of foods and get a few servings of veggies every day. For example, today I had broccoli, avocado, beans, and potatoes. Yesterday I had green beans, carrots, broccoli, and potatoes.
I have way too much going on in my life to obsess over micro numbers. I think that eating a variety of foods, making sure you eat veggies, and getting the right macros is really all people need to worry about. And I absolutely don't think, as you do, that foods are somehow worsened or degraded because they came from McDonald's or a frozen meal or whatever.0 -
So anyway, I've had a great day full of beer, tennis, ice cream, guacamole, essay writing, and large chain restaurant food.
I appreciate the flattery etc etc. Have a nice night :laugh:0 -
My problem with the "just hit your macros, and you'll be fine" argument is that hitting your macros doesn't mean you're necessarily getting enough micronutrients. Sure, everything is fortified these days, but there's complex phytochemical reactions within whole foods that activate minerals and vitamins in ways that can't be derived from supplements or fortification. That's not to say anyone needs to eat clean, but it's certainly important to make some effort to eat meals derived from nutrient-packed whole foods. As I believe most IIFYMers do.0
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I dunno. Seems to me that the only thing you proved here was that "pizza and nothing but pizza" is not a good diet plan :laugh:
johnnythan - one quick question before I stop wasting my time on this idiocy...do you think micronutrients unimportant?
Absolutely not. Of course they're important.
Didn't think so.0 -
No. The issue is you're both unable to discuss differing viewpoints like reasonable adults. You both result to back handed jabs and insults when your argument starts to be torn apart. My 3 year old handles disagreements better.
You are allowing one sector of extremists to define an entire group of people.
and he's free to feel however he wants about "clean eating" - however, everything he said there about IIFYM, I agree with.
You *still* do not get it. Those people are NOT hitting their macros and therefore are not applying IIFYM.
Selective call to authority there!
"Now that said, I do believe that many IIFYMers actually go too far in one direction."
Layne refers to them as IIFYMers.
so... are they or are they not?
That's akin to saying all Germans are Nazi's, all Muslims are terrorists, all Mexicans are members of the Zeta.... You get the point.
That's just ridiculous. In every group of people, who have extremists who take an ideal too far. IIFYM is no different. Yet you choose to pretend that ALL IIFYMers eat nothing but junk and use IIFYM as an excuse to eat nothing but junk. Quite frankly, both you AND jonnythan's incessant arguing has grown tiresome and it just makes both of you look like children in a schoolyard who don't know how to share the sandbox.
You want to eat clean. He doesn't. What he does has zero effect on your success, and what you do has zero effect on him. It'd be one thing if you two could agree to respectfully disagree, yet you both go after each other, time and time again.
Kids, it's time to grow the hell up.
i think the issue is that we both want to offer advice to people who are looking for it and to help people out, but we both find the other person's advice to be really bad advice. haha
Honestly, it's embarrassing to watch.0 -
I dunno. Seems to me that the only thing you proved here was that "pizza and nothing but pizza" is not a good diet plan :laugh:
johnnythan - one quick question before I stop wasting my time on this idiocy...do you think micronutrients unimportant?
Absolutely not. Of course they're important.
Didn't think so.
"No, I honestly don't pay that much attention to them. I think it's pointless to obsess over that stuff."0 -
You two should get a room
there's a fine line between love and hate. 0 -
I dunno. Seems to me that the only thing you proved here was that "pizza and nothing but pizza" is not a good diet plan :laugh:
johnnythan - one quick question before I stop wasting my time on this idiocy...do you think micronutrients unimportant?
Absolutely not. Of course they're important.
Didn't think so.
"No, I honestly don't pay that much attention to them. I think it's pointless to obsess over that stuff."
I think what he's saying is they are important in general, but he's not going to make it a focus like he does with macros.0 -
No. The issue is you're both unable to discuss differing viewpoints like reasonable adults. You both result to back handed jabs and insults when your argument starts to be torn apart. My 3 year old handles disagreements better.
You are allowing one sector of extremists to define an entire group of people.
and he's free to feel however he wants about "clean eating" - however, everything he said there about IIFYM, I agree with.
You *still* do not get it. Those people are NOT hitting their macros and therefore are not applying IIFYM.
Selective call to authority there!
"Now that said, I do believe that many IIFYMers actually go too far in one direction."
Layne refers to them as IIFYMers.
so... are they or are they not?
That's akin to saying all Germans are Nazi's, all Muslims are terrorists, all Mexicans are members of the Zeta.... You get the point.
That's just ridiculous. In every group of people, who have extremists who take an ideal too far. IIFYM is no different. Yet you choose to pretend that ALL IIFYMers eat nothing but junk and use IIFYM as an excuse to eat nothing but junk. Quite frankly, both you AND jonnythan's incessant arguing has grown tiresome and it just makes both of you look like children in a schoolyard who don't know how to share the sandbox.
You want to eat clean. He doesn't. What he does has zero effect on your success, and what you do has zero effect on him. It'd be one thing if you two could agree to respectfully disagree, yet you both go after each other, time and time again.
Kids, it's time to grow the hell up.
i think the issue is that we both want to offer advice to people who are looking for it and to help people out, but we both find the other person's advice to be really bad advice. haha
Honestly, it's embarrassing to watch.
Embarrassing. Entertaining. You say tomato, I say tomato . . . .
:flowerforyou:0 -
I dunno. Seems to me that the only thing you proved here was that "pizza and nothing but pizza" is not a good diet plan :laugh:
johnnythan - one quick question before I stop wasting my time on this idiocy...do you think micronutrients unimportant?
Absolutely not. Of course they're important.
Didn't think so.
"No, I honestly don't pay that much attention to them. I think it's pointless to obsess over that stuff."
I think what he's saying is they are important in general, but he's not going to make it a focus like he does with macros.
Yep - when you quote something out of context its, well....out of context.0 -
So did OP make a thread to say how you can't fit your micro's by IIFYM, then get proven that he ****ed up the calculations and you can, and he's still going off about it?
Also, with your physique you shouldn't be coaching anyone above the age of 12 on fitness.0 -
You two should get a room there's a fine line between love and hate.
oh i know.
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So did OP make a thread to say how you can't fit your micro's by IIFYM, then get proven that he ****ed up the calculations and you can, and he's still going off about it?
Also, with your physique you shouldn't be coaching anyone above the age of 12 on fitness.
No. this is just based off of arguments they've had on other people's threads who have asked for advice. Or on other threads that have some sort of study posted, etc.0 -
So anyway, I've had a great day full of beer, tennis, ice cream, guacamole, essay writing, and large chain restaurant food.
I appreciate the flattery etc etc. Have a nice night :laugh:
Sounds like a complete day. Can Reddy stop by and tuck you in? That would complete his day as well.0 -
I dunno. Seems to me that the only thing you proved here was that "pizza and nothing but pizza" is not a good diet plan :laugh:
johnnythan - one quick question before I stop wasting my time on this idiocy...do you think micronutrients unimportant?
Absolutely not. Of course they're important.
Didn't think so.
"No, I honestly don't pay that much attention to them. I think it's pointless to obsess over that stuff."
Has it occurred to you that some people might not be able to sustain at that level of logging? I'm not saying that's the case with the person you quoted...but I think rather than people (the ones who don't necessarily eat "clean" the majority of the time) using IIFYM as an excuse to eat as much fat and sugar as they can fit into their day, maybe they're just doing the best that they can manage and sustain, and their version of IIFYM is helping them to hit their macros, which they might not otherwise.
Just like a diet devoid of any sweets probably isn't sustainable for a lot of people, just maybe paying attention to micros isn't either. Maybe that level of detail and attention would overwhelm some people and hitting their macros is the best they can manage without getting frustrated and throwing in the towel?
I'm sure time devoted plays a role here also, but I can tell you that it's going to be a long while before I'm able to give micros the attention they deserve. Right now I'm learning how to fit my macros and still have some of the "junk" that I enjoy, and it's a struggle. The last few days I've just forgotten about macros and shot for my calorie goal (b/c sometimes it's overwhelming feeling like I have to try to meet those numbers everyday. Taking a break for a couple days makes me feel in control and like I can keep this up since I can change things up for a few days as needed), but when I'm trying, which is the norm, everyday is a struggle. I'm always trying to figure out how the hell to get enough protein and or carbs and not go over on fat. While it's possible that paying more attention to micros would actually assist me in meeting my macros, for right now, it's just all too much to worry about at once. I'm slowly making changes that will allow me to meet my macros and once I feel more accustomed to and confident in those changes, micros will probably seem less daunting.
I know this particular post was intended for a specific person, but generally your IIFYM attacks paint with a wide brush. Most people doing IIFYM aren't using it as justification to eat a bunch of junk. And people attempting IIFYM and ignoring micros aren't necessarily "doing it wrong" or misunderstanding the intent. Maybe they're just intentionally cherry picking the part of IIFYM that they feel they can successfully manage. Either way, it's really unfair that you consistently post and comment with this "you're-all-doing-it-wrong" attitude.0 -
I have read 6 pages and still can't get over the fact that coach eats clean and can't hit his iron and calcium for the day
You suck at clean eating, big time0 -
AGREED!0 -
I did a little experiment yesterday to see what would happen if I ate a ton of pizza, but still stayed within my calorie limit and mostly within my macros.
No idea how you managed that. I've never been able to make "a ton of pizza" fit my macros. Note the "mostly" within my macros caveat. Mostly within your macros =/= IIFYM.
This is IMO a strawman argument, because if your macros are set right, you really can't fit large quantities of junk food into your macros, and no-one doing IIFYM is advocating eating "a ton of pizza" every day... because it isn't going to fit anyone's macros. Yes you can eat pizza if it fits your macros, but in order to make a couple of slices of pizza fit my macros I have to be really careful what I eat the rest of the day, which basically means a day of eating lean meat/fish/eggwhites and salad veggies for the other meals, then a couple of slices of pizza. And I'm not going to do that very often, because the carbs and fat in pizza don't contain much in the way of micronutrients or essential fatty acids. Thirdly, I really like foods that contain healthy fat, like egg yolks, dairy products, olive oil, nuts and so on. I'm not going to sacrifice those in order to eat lots of pizza. I will eat pizza sometimes. Even if I'm going to eat junk food, I'd rather go for something that's higher in protein like burger or chicken nuggets (the good quality kind that are made from chicken breast, not the McMegaprocessed ones that taste of I don't know what but it doesn't taste like chicken.
Additionally, you can pick pretty much any meal you like, and if you ate that meal in huge quantities every day, you'll be able to find some micronutrients you're not getting enough of. No food is healthy or unhealthy in isolation, it's only within the context of a healthy diet. Eating a wide variety of different foods is healthy.
I do IIFYM. I also focus on getting all the nutrition my body needs before I start indulging in high calorie foods that are going to use up all my fat and carb allowances for the day, without giving me a chance to get some essential fatty acids and a lot of macronutrients along with them.
this who IIFYM v clean eating debate is stupid, because the *ONLY* difference betweeen the two is that IIFYM people don't demonise food like pizza and burgers, and will have it *after* they've ensured they've eaten enough clean foods to get what their body needs.......... while the eat clean people won't have it at all........... except for the eat clean people who follow the 80/20 rule, then it's just semantics whether you call yourself an "eat clean 80/20" person or an "IIFYM" person... because it's the same thing. Junk food does not fit your macros unless you're being really careful with portion control and also eating plenty of nutritious foods before you try to fit the junk food into your macros. Therefore they're the same thing. /debate0 -
guys i'm not talking about pizza as a food, which, just like ANYTHING ELSE has millions of variations that range from dominos and pizza hut bad to whole wheat or cauliflower crust with veggies galore - which are obviously much more nutritious. that's NOT what I'm talking about
frankly, this isn't even about PIZZA itself, simply testing the idea that you can get proper micro nutrition from fast foods. the pizza was just the easiest and cheapest way to go about doing that.
Which nutrients were missing in the end btw?
Probably some Vitamin K and other random nutrients that no one thinks about but him.
To OP:
I really have nothing valid to add but that.
You also might want to vary your fast food choices and see if it comes out the same.
Any good researcher knows that you can't only do one study and draw a conclusion on a topic.
i'm... not a researcher. it was just a one day thing that i did on a whim. lol
and ... um... you should look into that pesky vitamin K. it... ya know... might actually be really important. but what do i know? i'm not a researcher.
ok, using your methodology...
tomorrow, i will drink water with lemon in it. that's 100% clean, right?
the day after, i will drink nothing but Arby's milkshakes made with real ice cream. that's decidedly not clean and considered "unhealthy" by your standards.
on tuesday, i will check and see which day's intake gave me the most Vitamin B12 and Calcium. i will determine which intake is preferable solely on this simple comparison.
see except I kept the calories and macros consistent. guess i'm a better researcher than you!
You ate 3,000 something calories on Friday and 2,000 on Saturday.. So you only kept the macro's consistent.
If you ate the same amount of calories on both days, then you could say that you kept calories and macro's consistant.
Nice try and thanks for playing.
this is awkward... those aren't the days i was comparing in the original post... yikes.
might wanna work on that reading comprehension.
You might want to work on your definition of consistant.
Even with the days you picked, you still ate 200 more on Friday then you did on that one random day.. which means, they are still not consistant.
Frankly the only thing you did right in this "experiment" is pick a random day to compare to.
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I don't understand the hate. OP is totally right. Calorie quality matters.0
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I don't understand the hate. OP is totally right. Calorie quality matters.
welcome to the myfitnesspal nutrition forum0 -
I have read 6 pages and still can't get over the fact that coach eats clean and can't hit his iron and calcium for the day
You suck at clean eating, big time
i actually don't. just as we established with the pizza day, i'm sure many of the foods i log don't have vitamins listed.0
This discussion has been closed.
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