A side thread off of the 5000 calorie day thread...

morkiemama

From Yoovie, who should be allowed to post in the main forums again

I think that many people assume that the 5000 (although it think it's more like 3000) calorie guys and girls are always advocating eating junk and eating dirty food.

1. They dont get all their calories from junk - most of their diets are 40% protein, 30% fat, 30% carbs or similar, macros people are always trying to match or meet. They dont say EAT CRAP! They say - you don't have to NOT eat it. I eat pizza 4 or 5 times a month. I eat ice cream whenever I want, I get fudge rounds and bagels with bacon eggs and cheese. I need to in order to get enough protein and fat and carbs. But MOST of the food I eat is nutritionally insane. Those on high calorie diets neeeeed that fuel for insane daily workouts. They dont cram their faces with junk. They just dont. And they have a different opinion of what junk food is. Most newbie dieters think of junk food as ALL high calorie foods, and bacon, ice cream, whole milk, pasta, burgers, etc - for a lot of us (and I use US lightly cause I SHOULD be eating a lot but yall know I suck at eating) these things are almost necessary. I see junk food as stuff like ramen noodles or chef boyardee that have nothing to offer me but calories and sodium. I eat tons of home cooked meals. I just have to.

2. By the time you get to the point where you need that many calories - you just are not a beginning dieter with triggers and behaviors you are learning to modify. That is the difference. Most of those people are used to being in the gym consistently for many months or years by now, and dont really have newbie food issues anymore because we dealt with them already or never had them. Make sense?

Just because they say we eat bacon and cheese burgers and burritos the size of our faces, does not mean they eat badly.

Newbs just hear those words and think -excessive gluttony- when it simply isnt the case.

#freeyoovie

Wait Yoovie isn't allowed to post anymore???

likitisplit

You see people advising others to eat more, because for some reason people on this site tend to believe that 1200 is a magical number, no matter how much you weigh, how tall or active you are.

I was 215 when I started on MFP. Even though, I set my weight loss for .5 pound a week, I was losing over 3 from portion control and running three days a week. I called my doctor for advice and all they could give me was a sheet showing a sample 1200 calorie diet.

I was like, "No thanks, I'm losing 3 pounds a week at 2300 a day. I don't think that eating less will help me figure out a sustainable loss."

They told me to wait a few weeks and see if it leveled off: it did.

But I can kind of see where the 1200 calorie crowd is coming from.

likitisplit

You haven't really done crunches until you have a one years old's help. Having a small child laying across you really helps your form.

Yours lays across you? My sits astride and BOUNCES!!!

likitisplit

FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.

Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.

1223345

FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.

Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.

I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.

JenMc14

I just want to suggest the controversial opinion that doing a 25-minute free youtube fitnessblender routine in the living room after the kids go to bed for the night does not constitute child abuse. But far be it from me to deprive anyone of their excuses.

Orrrrrrrrr also,


maybe do it when they are awake.


OH NO!


they might want to jump in and exercise too! We would never want that!

You haven't really done crunches until you have a one years old's help. Having a small child laying across you really helps your form. well ok not really but it does cause alot of laughter when he says boo.

I personally shall be abandoning my children tomorrow morning at 05:45 to go to the gym, I can then be there and back before they are up, or just as they are getting up at about 7 to get them ready for school. Do I want to get up at 5:15 to go exercise? Not always. Would laying in bed be lovely? Yes, totally. Will it help me achieve my goal? No, so I get up and move my butt when I am able to fit it in. Which at the moment is early AM.

I workout while my kids are sleeping, in my basement. But, I'm a whole floor away, so they're totally abandoned. And, you have also not lived until you're mid-deadlift on your heavy set when your 4 year old shrieks from the couch behind you.

I also *gasp* leave my children in the CARE OF THEIR FATHER every Saturday so I can run outside for 30-40 minutes. Oh, the horrors.

But, to be less sarcastic, and I've said it before, no one is advocating eating like crap every day and "offsetting" it by working out 5 hours a day. And, no one assumes that you're not getting a workout in just because you don't leave your kids. I work out 6 days a week, 5 of those are at home while my kids are at home. I think what people are commenting on is the statement that anyone who works out a lot, or is fit and eats crap foods, must be ABANDONING their children. When a bold statement like that is made, ridiculous answers come with it, I have found. It's not an all or nothing. There is some wiggle room in between no workouts at all and abandoning one's children for 3 hours a day to work out. Rarely is anything in life all or nothing, there's usually a nice, comfy middle ground.

likitisplit

FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.

Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.

I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.

I'm sorry if somebody has said that to you, but I didn't see that reasoning on this thread - I could have missed the comment. I know that I've never been put down anywhere on MFP because I sometimes have to run with a double stroller.

I saw the recommendation to work out for 45 minutes 6 days a week. I saw the suggestion to put the work in if you wanted to get ripped/eat millions of calories. But I didn't see anything about workouts not counting if they were done at home/with kids.

likitisplit

no one is advocating eating like crap every day and "offsetting" it by working out 5 hours a day.

As the saying goes, "you can't out exercises a bad diet."

I think one of the distinctions that gets lost is the difference between a bad diet and bad foods.

I'd like to suggest: A bad diet doesn't fit your macros/micros over a period of weeks. Bad foods don't exist. However, high quality foods DO exist and are an important part of a quality diet. How you balance this all out is really up to the individual.

ArroganceInStep

FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.

Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.

I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.

What astounds me is how you don't see the parallels between the broad generalizations you're making of others (and before you say I'm putting words in your mouth the statement 'I don't abandon my kids for two hours to go running 10 miles' implies that some parents, in fact, do go for long runs and that doing so constitutes abandoning their children) and the perceived slights you claim are being made against you.

jofjltncb6

FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.

Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.

I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.

*You* don't understand *their* logic?

As the kids these days are wont to say: LOLWUT?

Siege_Tank

FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.

Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.

I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.

What astounds me is how you don't see the parallels between the broad generalizations you're making of others (and before you say I'm putting words in your mouth the statement 'I don't abandon my kids for two hours to go running 10 miles' implies that some parents, in fact, do go for long runs and that doing so constitutes abandoning their children) and the perceived slights you claim are being made against you.

AHEM...

When Wal-Mart finds it necessary to put a sign on the front door reminding their patrons to remember to check their car so that they don't forget their kids, leaving them behind...

When it happens enough that they need SIGNS to remind shoppers..

Yes, it does happen, parents neglect their kids. Some would leave them behind to work on themselves.

likitisplit

One thing that I'd like to point out: 5000 calories OVER goal is only 1.5 pounds of fat.

So imagine somebody who has been losing at a half a pound a week for a year: 26 pounds, right?

+ one 5000 calorie day = 24.5 pounds lost that year.

What about a pound a week? 52 pound a year + one 5000 calorie day = 50.5 pounds that year.

And, if they are including a 1500 calorie a day allotment in that 5000 calorie day, then you're talking about a one pound difference over that year.

jofjltncb6

FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.

Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.

I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.

What astounds me is how you don't see the parallels between the broad generalizations you're making of others (and before you say I'm putting words in your mouth the statement 'I don't abandon my kids for two hours to go running 10 miles' implies that some parents, in fact, do go for long runs and that doing so constitutes abandoning their children) and the perceived slights you claim are being made against you.

AHEM...

When Wal-Mart finds it necessary to put a sign on the front door reminding their patrons to remember to check their car so that they don't forget their kids, leaving them behind...

When it happens enough that they need SIGNS to remind shoppers..

Yes, it does happen, parents neglect their kids. Some would leave them behind to work on themselves.

Saying it happens and saying that this particular MFPer had a basis to make her accusation that those in the target group did it is two totally different matters.

But trying to explain common logical fallacies on MFP is like...

...uh...

...trying to do a thing that can't be expected to be successful.

LiftAllThePizzas

So why make the average person feel like its wrong or stupid to try to eat "healthier" and avoid trigger foods (like sweets for me) and heavily processed foods, and that eating 5000 calories a day will not affect weight loss results and is actually good for the average overweight person?

People go from one extreme and unhealthy relationship with food, gluttony, to yet another extreme and unhealthy relationship with food: deprivation. There are many more than two ways to go about things.

Moderation is a basic life skill that we should be learning as children. It's like walking, swimming, riding a bike, eating with utensils, drinking from a glass, reading, writing, doing basic math, or using a toilet. When people discover this they can either choose to feel stupid and insulted that other people already have this skill, or they can learn it for themselves.

likitisplit

AHEM...

When Wal-Mart finds it necessary to put a sign on the front door reminding their patrons to remember to check their car so that they don't forget their kids, leaving them behind...

When it happens enough that they need SIGNS to remind shoppers..

Yes, it does happen, parents neglect their kids. Some would leave them behind to work on themselves.

I'm not sure I understand your point?

Nobody here was suggesting that parents SHOULD abandon their kids to exercise or that this would be a good thing. I think that everybody on the message board agrees that it is horrible for a parent to leave their kid alone so they could get a good workout in.

And non-neglectful parents have tragically and accidentally left their kids in cars. Sometimes they fall asleep and you forget you have the kid with you when it's usually the other parent's responsibility at that time. That happens too.

ArroganceInStep

AHEM...

When Wal-Mart finds it necessary to put a sign on the front door reminding their patrons to remember to check their car so that they don't forget their kids, leaving them behind...

When it happens enough that they need SIGNS to remind shoppers..

Yes, it does happen, parents neglect their kids. Some would leave them behind to work on themselves.

[im.g]Big pointless picture[/im.g]

Genocide, rape, torture, drug abuse, murder, pedophilia, incest, and Fergie all exist in this world too...maybe I should talk to you like you're guilty of those attrocities?

Siege_Tank

I'm not sure I understand your point?

Nobody here was suggesting that parents SHOULD abandon their kids to exercise or that this would be a good thing. I think that everybody on the message board agrees that it is horrible for a parent to leave their kid alone so they could get a good workout in.

And non-neglectful parents have tragically and accidentally left their kids in cars. Sometimes they fall asleep and you forget you have the kid with you when it's usually the other parent's responsibility at that time. That happens too.

Once in a while is one thing. That it happens SO MUCH that signs need to be put up... that's not oops, that's people not caring.

I was responding to the idea that no one abandons their kids. In truth, I don't really know what you were trying to say, I just wanted a chance to say kids aren't an excuse, even for going shopping.

What astounds me is how you don't see the parallels between the broad generalizations you're making of others (and before you say I'm putting words in your mouth the statement 'I don't abandon my kids for two hours to go running 10 miles' implies that some parents, in fact, do go for long runs and that doing so constitutes abandoning their children) and the perceived slights you claim are being made against you.

My point was Kids are not an excuse. If a person can't find time for the gym, then they can punch up youtube inbetween arguing in this thread, and get a workout in.

And If the person didn't have kids, they'd find another reason why they can't be healthy.

ArroganceInStep

I was responding to the idea that no one abandons their kids.

What astounds me is how you don't see the parallels between the broad generalizations you're making of others (and before you say I'm putting words in your mouth the statement 'I don't abandon my kids for two hours to go running 10 miles' implies that some parents, in fact, do go for long runs and that doing so constitutes abandoning their children) and the perceived slights you claim are being made against you.

I wrote that. Where the hell did I say that no one abandons their kids?

Try reading it again.

Siege_Tank

I am just wondering because my mind is boggled. I'm not trying to be condescending or rude. This is an honest question/statement. Alot of the fittest people on this site (who I'm not naming cuz i dont want to finger point but are super knowledgeable and well known for giving great advice and they know who they are and can respond if they wish to) are the people that are condoning and even promoting eating dirty and super high calorie foods that have not much to offer from a nutritional or calorie defecit standpoint. Most of the people Im referring to have made posts on the recent 5000 calorie day thread, but I've seen it all over the forums when people talk about eating clean, avoiding traditional "junk foods" etc. Some even poke fun at people and make them feel like theyre doing something silly by trying to eat healthier to lose weight. These people I speak of all have super 6 packs and obviously have had great results with their lifestyles. Hence why my mind is boggled knowing that most of the people found a need to get on this site from eating meals such as these. Most average people aren't putting in the workouts that these ripped people obviously do that make eating like that and looking like THAT possible. They cant really be blessed with genetics that would allow eating that way and NOT working out to result in bodies like those works of art! So why make the average person feel like its wrong or stupid to try to eat "healthier" and avoid trigger foods (like sweets for me) and heavily processed foods, and that eating 5000 calories a day will not affect weight loss results and is actually good for the average overweight person? I understand it can be part of a whole lifestyle, or bodybuilding program. Things like carb cycling, backloading, high calorie days, intense workouts. But I think its misleading to the average joe trying to lose a few pounds to say "if you want to eat it, then just eat it, its not going to harm you" without a disclaimer of some sort saying "You best not do this all the time and you best get your *kitten* to the gym and lift some heavy weights and go for a run after binging like this cuz mopping doesnt count as exercise if you eat like me" .

Thoughts? :flowerforyou:

Wow, page 7 got FAR off from the OP... Sitting here going "Wait, how did we get here???"

DavPul

FALSE. It is a FACT that not everyone has a place to leave their kids.

Not every day, no. But I know plenty of single mothers who figure out how to work it in. The book "Train like a Mother" offers suggestions for how to get in 10 mile runs.

I DO get my work outs in, I just have to get it done with the kids. Why do people not understand that because I am not leaving my kids to go out to whatever, that I am not working out. The logic here astounds me.

Logic