Lance Armstrong admits to cheating.
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He DID NOT admit to cheating.
Personally, I could care less. We want our athletes to be bigger, stronger and faster. We put the pressure on them to be bigger , stronger and faster and then condemn them when they succumb to that pressure and enhance their performance.
Let's dig up Lou Gehrig and see if he has any performance enhancing drugs in his body.
It's old news. Drop it. Come up with more accurate testing for the future.0 -
so if he's innocent hes going to let them strip him of everything he's won? nobody would do that. nobody would give you their legacy.
He's been fighting this for years. It's gone nowhere. He's never tested positive.0 -
From what i heard this morning - he is done dealing with these accusations and putting his family through it as well. It doesn't say guilt. We could never understand the pressure and harassment of allegations like these for someone in the spotlight.
Regardless, one way or the other, there was no confession of guilt - so agreed, the heading is not accurate, it is your assumption of the currents new.0 -
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Hard to believe the anti doping agency would "create" their findings in order to strip him of his titles, which it looks like they will soon. I'd like to believe Lance, but I don't.
The Europeans have been accusing him of doping since his third win. Did we not all look at that and think, wow, can this be real....seven tour wins, is that even possible?
After watching him for all these years I'm saddened that yet another American sportsman has been brought down.
When the needle is going in, don't you have to ask yourself "If get caught doing this, will the blow back be worth it"?
And for the foundation he created, all the people that believed in him and followed him and supported him, his teammates throughout the years, all lied to.
For each race he won doping, a clean rider was denied a win, and that plain wrong in my book.0 -
so if he's innocent hes going to let them strip him of everything he's won? nobody would do that. nobody would give you their legacy.
The USADA don't have the power to strip him of any titles won outside of the US. The titles he's made his name on; the Tour de France, can only be taken from him by the UCI, who have actually given him support in fighting the doping claims made by the USADA.
Basically, he's not giving up any of his legacy by not continuing to fight the allegations. However, if he was indeed doping (which seems impossible to prove so many years after the fact) then the UCI would take the appropriate action.0 -
It is pretty obvious that someone has an axe to grind against Lance. Based on the public evidence, Lance passed every drug test he was ever given. Until the USADA publishes some data to the contrary, I'll have to side with Lance. To say that because Lance has given up the fight, he has admitted to doping is absolute malarkey. In any civilized legal system, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Moreover, in the United States, you have a right to say nothing. The burden is _ALWAYS_ on the _PROSECUTOR_ not the accused to prove guilt. Of course in this case it is not a legal proceeding governed by those rules, but the spirit of our laws should still apply.0
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Lance Armstong's Statement of August 23, 2012
AUSTIN, Texas - August 23rd, 2012 - There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.
I had hoped that a federal court would stop USADA’s charade. Although the court was sympathetic to my concerns and recognized the many improprieties and deficiencies in USADA’s motives, its conduct, and its process, the court ultimately decided that it could not intervene.
If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA’s process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and – once and for all – put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?
From the beginning, however, this investigation has not been about learning the truth or cleaning up cycling, but about punishing me at all costs. I am a retired cyclist, yet USADA has lodged charges over 17 years old despite its own 8-year limitation. As respected organizations such as UCI and USA Cycling have made clear, USADA lacks jurisdiction even to bring these charges. The international bodies governing cycling have ordered USADA to stop, have given notice that no one should participate in USADA’s improper proceedings, and have made it clear the pronouncements by USADA that it has banned people for life or stripped them of their accomplishments are made without authority. And as many others, including USADA’s own arbitrators, have found, there is nothing even remotely fair about its process. USADA has broken the law, turned its back on its own rules, and stiff-armed those who have tried to persuade USADA to honor its obligations. At every turn, USADA has played the role of a bully, threatening everyone in its way and challenging the good faith of anyone who questions its motives or its methods, all at U.S. taxpayers’ expense. For the last two months, USADA has endlessly repeated the mantra that there should be a single set of rules, applicable to all, but they have arrogantly refused to practice what they preach. On top of all that, USADA has allegedly made deals with other riders that circumvent their own rules as long as they said I cheated. Many of those riders continue to race today.
The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced. The idea that athletes can be convicted today without positive A and B samples, under the same rules and procedures that apply to athletes with positive tests, perverts the system and creates a process where any begrudged ex-teammate can open a USADA case out of spite or for personal gain or a cheating cyclist can cut a sweetheart deal for themselves. It’s an unfair approach, applied selectively, in opposition to all the rules. It’s just not right.
USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles. I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. We all raced together. For three weeks over the same roads, the same mountains, and against all the weather and elements that we had to confront. There were no shortcuts, there was no special treatment. The same courses, the same rules. The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially not Travis Tygart.
Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities. This October, my Foundation will celebrate 15 years of service to cancer survivors and the milestone of raising nearly $500 million. We have a lot of work to do and I'm looking forward to an end to this pointless distraction. I have a responsibility to all those who have stepped forward to devote their time and energy to the cancer cause. I will not stop fighting for that mission. Going forward, I am going to devote myself to raising my five beautiful (and energetic) kids, fighting cancer, and attempting to be the fittest 40-year old on the planet.
Good on him. I believe him. Always have & always will.0 -
I'm sorry but him stating that he's tired of fighting these accusations after THIRTEEN years is not an admission of guilt. I dont know if he cheated or not. But these people have been after him for over a decade....I don't blame him even at the risk of losing his titles for saying I can't fight a losing battle anymore. It has to take a huge emotional and mental toll.0
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He was tested after every race. He always tested clean. The "Anti's" don't believe the tests? Sounds like a witch hunt to me. Where is the evidence? Present it. Get it over with. Shouldn't take forever. He has another life now and wants to get on with it. He knows he won the races and didn't or did use drugs. There are more important battles to fight these days.
Agreed. He passed between 500 and 600 tests. This is an absolute witchhunt. I don't blame him for giving up. He has been fighting accusations for 12 years. If he was under suspicion in 2000 for doping - why then would the let him continue to compete? Oh, that's right. Because he passed every. single. drug. test. The USADA says they have blood samples from 2009 and 2010 that prove he was doping? Really? Then why would you allow him to compete that year, then bring up your evidence 3 years later? Why didn't you disqualify him THEN? Oh, that's right. Because he passed every. single. drug. test. You are going to take away his Bronze medal from the Olympics? Why? He PASSED the drug tests! We all saw that this year when the American Judo Olympian was kicked out because HIS drug test came back positive. If you pass, you compete. If you fail - you are kicked out. It's so shocking to believe that he could win 7 years in a row? Why? Michael Phelps was just declared the most decorated olympian in history! He's not just better than any other swimmer. He is better than any other athlete in the history of the games. Bet he was using drugs too. What about the American Womens Sand Volleyball players? Misty May and Kerri Walsh? They have NEVER been beaten in the Olympics. NEVER. Are they on drugs too?
I guess now, if you are good at what you do, and you actually win - then you MUST be on drugs. NO ONE can win without drugs. SMDH0 -
He DID NOT admit to cheating.
Personally, I could care less. We want our athletes to be bigger, stronger and faster. We put the pressure on them to be bigger , stronger and faster and then condemn them when they succumb to that pressure and enhance their performance.
Let's dig up Lou Gehrig and see if he has any performance enhancing drugs in his body.
It's old news. Drop it. Come up with more accurate testing for the future.
OMG! Lou Gehrig cheated! Say it isn't so. LOL.0 -
so if he's innocent hes going to let them strip him of everything he's won? nobody would do that. nobody would give you their legacy.
You might if you had been fighting it since 1999. You might if it was wearing on you financially and mentally, causing your family anguish. You might if it was negitively effecting the work you do with your cancer foundation. In my opinion, you can't diminish his accomplishments in the sport of cycling. You can't strip him of his titles without proof from his samples that he was dirty. No proof has been found, there's just a bunch of haters and cheats who were caught pointing a finger out of jealousy or to promote another agenda, like selling their book.
He competed at a time of exceptional cheating, and he still won. Maybe he's just a freak with abilities far beyond his pears. He will always be the face of cycling to me, and i respect his accomplishments. Plus, he had the greatest lines ever in the movie "Dodgeball", when he asks Peter, "So what is it you're dying from?"0 -
He cheated.
He got away with it.
Develop better testing methods.
Until then, admit you effed up and didn't catch him instead of witch hunting him for more than a freaking decade.
If this was a criminal thing, the statute of limitations would have expired for all but the most heinous of crimes.
Heinous this is not.0 -
"I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. ... Nobody can ever change that"
Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Every single test he's been given he has passed. 100s of them. I wasn't there and have no idea if he doped or not but until they can prove it he's innocent!0 -
100% actually. Well, ok, there probably is one or two, but they never win. One person who got caught said it like this "There are two kinds of cyclist, those who use performance enhancing drugs, and those that havn't been caught yet"Seriously... assuming he did dope. Who cares? I am sure 90% of the guys at that level do it.0 -
The "but his accusers are all cheats!" defense some are throwing out don't really hold water. Of course many are. Criminals hang with criminals, cheats hang with cheats. Floyd landis certainly seems to have some anger toward Armstrong. But Tyler hamilton is very believable.
The biggest hit was expected to come from george hincapie. One of the most liked and respected riders out there. And with Armstrong for all seven tour wins. He was expected to testify to systematic doping by the entire team, including Armstrong. Was also believed to be able to corroborate some of landis' blood transfusion claims.
Ex-teammate hamilton has said he saw doping. Hincapie is reported by CBS and others to have agreed in front of a grand jury. And to the didn't fail a test thing, he is said to have tripped several alarms. Once, according to hamilton, he full-on failed in 2001. That's when he met with the head of UCI in Switzerland and donated 125,000 to the joint. A bit sketchy. The cash 'took care of it,' hamilton said. The lab director has them told the fbi in a sworn statement that UCI made it clear it didn't want the flagged test investigated further.
Yeah. That all seems up-and-up.0 -
he said:
In a statement sent to the AP, Armstrong said: “Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities.”
Did he cheat? I don't know. Did he ADMIT TO CHEATING? I've read nothing that suggests he has.
^^THIS! The USADA has said his decision to quit is an admission of guilt. Personally, I believe he just got tired of repeating himself. The only thing they have against him at this point is the word of ten of his teammates/competitors who he beat consistently. Hundreds of negative blood tests don't lie, sore losers do. If you can't prove he doped before, during, or immediately after, let it go. The man is officially retired for crying out loud! It's in the past and shouldn't even be an issue anymore. In my opinion, this whole thing has been an unfair, unfounded, and unnecessary witch hunt.0 -
He didn't admit to ANYTHING. Honestly I can't blame the guy for just saying "Screw it." and giving up his titles because it's not worth the fight. Why? Because obviously no matter what he says, no matter what the past tests he's done have said they will find him guilty of it period because it's a witch hunt.
What I don't get is why HE'S the one they're making an example of and not these baseball players who have been convicted of using performance enhancing drugs and get a slap on the wrist, a finger wag and an "Oh YOU! Just don't do that again!" They sit out one game and they're back playing again. They're the ones that should be banned from the sport for life.
"Giving up" is not an admission of guilt. Corporations do it all the time in law suits because it's easier and less expensive to say "screw it" and pay up or, in the case of Lance Armstrong, just say "I'm done. No matter what I say you will not believe me so screw it." They can take his titles but he still won. And what now? Are you going to call up all the second place people and say "Hey! Guess what? YOU won!" I would laugh my butt off at that if I were them considering the fact that I saw Lance's *kitten* in front of me as he flew over the finish line and won.
I like Lance and I'm not going to fault him for not fighting.0 -
yeah i definitely should have headed this wrong but it seems you cant edit the title.
but any reasonable person can see he's guilty of cheating. mountains of evidence and now he's not even going to fight it.
very disappoinnting. what will all the people he inspired think?
All the people he inspired will think the same thing they think when another sports idol gets exposed- "I probably shouldn't put so much faith in someone that I barely know who gets paid to do what kids do for free." I was a big Mark McGwire fan when I was a kid, but was I shocked when he was accused of steroid use (which he subsequently admitted)? No. You know why? Because he was built like a pro wrestler. In my childhood room, I had 3 posters- McGwire, Darryl Strawberry and Lawrence Taylor. Was I shocked when Darryl and LT admitted drug use? No. I was thankful for the production they brought to their respective teams.
What I'm trying to say is that this story will be hued according to your own personal prism. You can look at Armstrong as a cheat, which he more than likely is, and feel that you were misled into feeling empathy for him and being inspired by him and wearing yellow bracelets... OR... you can look at him as a cheat who brought increased awareness to cancer and raised over $500 million for cancer research, which in turn helped save lives. Yeah, he's a prick. And yeah, he's a really good guy (maybe to make up for being a prick). Nobody is just one thing- it's the duality of man- 2 sides of the same coin. In many ways, it's not clothes or money but contradictions that makes the man. People are fallible (well, people not named Derek Jeter, who may very well be the 37th reincarnation of Buddha), which is why many people look to religion, because only god is infallible, or so I've been told. Or if you're like me, you place no faith in man or spirit, still try to do more right than wrong, and enjoy sports for what they are- games. Games being played by men/women in suspended adolescence/arrested development.
Thank you for your time.
Fantastic post.0 -
he said:
In a statement sent to the AP, Armstrong said: “Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities.”
Did he cheat? I don't know. Did he ADMIT TO CHEATING? I've read nothing that suggests he has.
This!!
I live in Belgium where, for many, Eddy Merckx is a god, and even he faced doping charges- Eddy always defended Lance and, if Lance is good enough for Eddy, then he is good enough for the Belgians- one of the few places where the people are truly passionate about the sport
sometimes you simply can't win against agencies like the USADA and the amount of time and money involved may simply not be worth it considering the appeal rights are limited for the athlete
Eddy tested positive three times ...0 -
Whether or not he's guilty I think my respect for him is the highest right now.0
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Why is everyone freaking out about this? It is a well known fact that most every cyclist in the Tour de France 'cheats' and uses dope...
In Armstrong's seven wins, all but one rider finishing in the top three has been accused of or found guilty of doping. Every winner since his last win have been accused of or found guilty of doping. Yet he, some seem to believe, didn't participate. Please.0 -
TEAM LANCE!
but i was also behind Marion Jones.......:grumble:0 -
I didn't read anywhere that he admitted to cheating. Just that he was done fighting. (I haven't read any of the other posts in this thread, simply the OP)
Who cares? There are more important things to worry about than Lance Armstrong doing steroids.0 -
TEAM LANCE!
but i was also behind Marion Jones.......:grumble:
As was I. And, like barry bonds, she never failed a drug test. Cheaters become very good at cheating. Kind of the whole point, really. Several Tour winners who never tested positive have later come out and admitted doping, also.
Couple more random thoughts ... while some say 'irrelevant!' I say that a guy who would leave his wife after she both raised his kids while he was riding all over and who stood by him through cancer treatment already lacks a bit morally. I mean, Sheryl crow is hot and all, but come on. (Course, then he broke it off with her after three months - claiming pressure to have kids, which he later had with another woman - and moved on to one of the full house twins. Next up was kate hudson, I think.)
There is also a line of thinking, brought up by sports illustrated, that all the drugs he took actually caused the cancer in the first place.0 -
With all due respect to this message title, based on the data it is currently wholly inaccurate. He has not to this point ever said anything but that he is innocent. He has been the subject of an intense investigation based on nothing but hearsay evidence for well over 13 years. During that time, he was tested based on the rules of testing well over 500 times. So there is no hard data, no proven evidence of his cheating. All they have is some disgruntled employees.
More importantly, he never failed a single test, not one, not ever. They have done everything they could, including waking him in the middle of the night at his home many times, to test him and yet he never failed a single one. Is it still possible he did cheat? Sure, anything is possible. But again, based on the rules and regulations in effect at the time, which are strict and precise, he passed over 500 tests! In all other sports, if you pass you pass. It's over. Only in the USADA is innuendo more important than factual data.
As he said, at some point enough is enough. Could you continue to fight every moment of your life for 12, 13, 14 years or more? My father was wrongfully accused of his ex-wifes brutal rape and murder. He was the county tax collector just to stop any profiling. He was pursued for over 2.5 years, being awoken in the middle of the night many times to be dragged down for interrogation. He was pulled, picked at, prodded, and talked to like an animal at times. They had no proof at all. They were trying to get him to confess to something he did not do. They finally caught the right person, but not until they almost destroyed his marriage and our family. None of us are the media spotlight. Mr. Armstrong has gone through this witch hunt for over 13 years or more! I cannot imagine having to answer these questions every moment of my life that I am not huddled in my house. Again, with all due respect, until you live through something, you really don't understand the tool it takes.
Finally, please do not judge those that would use data and facts to come to a conclusion (in reference to the "any reasonable person... comment.) You have every right to come to the conclusion you want to, but don't denigrate others that do not see it that way.0 -
The only thing they have against him at this point is the word of ten of his teammates/competitors who he beat consistently.
The Lance defenders say that the USADA is on a witch hunt, conspiring to ruin Lance.
The Lance supporters also say that his ten former teammates conspired to defame him.
Which conspiracy is the correct? Both?
Or is there any conspiracy at all?
Perhaps he did dope.0 -
None of us know what whether he doped or not.
I also know that, no matter what the cost, I would not let anyone take my titles away from me if I was earned them honestly. You worked your *kitten* off for decades only to give them the upper hand in the end, admit guilt by association when you drop out.
I've never been a fan of the man, honestly, but I won't outright say he cheated without proof.0 -
He didn't say he cheated, he basically said he doesn't give a **** what they say because they can't take his money LOL.
Actually - depending on the findings and which organizations decide to take action, he CAN be stripped of winnings, meaning he'd have to give back what he won. I don't think it will come to that because UCI is supporting him (for the moment), but it can happen.
Meanwhile, as for those talking about him passing all his tests, from what I'm hearing that's not necessarily true. I'm reserving judgement for the moment (though I'm not really a fan of cycling or Lance), but I look at it like this. If new science and technology can clear someone through DNA evidence years and years after they have been convicted of a crime (or the reverse, find someone guilty), I would imagine newer technologies can detect things in older blood samples that weren't detected before.0 -
Really OP - What in tasking some responsibility when you report something you have read!!
NO - He has NOT admitted to cheating!!! Being persecuted by people is very different to admitting to cheating (or cheating)....
In the end of the day he has NEVER - EVER failed any drug tests.......
^^ This!0
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