Diet and Exercise vs. Surgery. Thoughts?

I see a lot of people stating that they "tried every diet out there" before getting the surgery. I think that's the issue.. a lot of people tried to fad DIET their way out of it and didn't deal with their overeating issues upfront.

If you have an overeating issue, you shouldn't resolve that by removing most of your stomach. Go through therapy and FIGHT to avoid the cravings. It's completely possible.. to say that you /had/ to get part of your stomach removed to lose weight seems silly to me. That is why people say it's the "easy way out". Everybody knows that surgery itself is not fun or easy.

i appreciate your point of view, but if you have never been a food addict, then you really cannot even begin to understand what our "cravings" do to us. i have been to counseling, therapy. weight watchers, take a buddy to the gym, high protein-low carb, low fat etc etc....they haven't been all fad diets. when people have an emotional attachment to food, it is literally like giving up your best friend. and if you have never had to deal with that, it may sound silly because "it's just food." you can buffalo a counselor, you can talk your way right out of therapy and hell, i can even convince myself that i'm ok without it.....but like any "addict" that needs help, at the end of the day, i always caved.......because it was that one thing that made me feel good(maybe only for a minute)for 20 some years of my life....that's not something you can just "fight" off the urge for. the problem with food addiction is that it is NOT like a drug addiction, you cannot be "cured" because unfortunately even food addicts HAVE to eat to survive....i dont need drugs or alcohol to SURVIVE......there is NO being "sober" from food ever! People who have not had to fight this type of addiction will never understand the reasoning behind surgery(if so chosen) and they will always see it as a simple solution.....i for one am/ was addicted to food, i fight that battle everyday of my life and i always will......when i had surgery, i willingly gave up my "best friend, comfort, security blanket, and companion" to be a better me, to be a better mother and girlfriend. without having done so i would be NO kind of example for my children, because i would still be a very fat, unhealthy and unhappy addict. there is no dealing with the issue upfront because sometimes even us addicts will never know what the real issue ever was.....no amount of counseling or therapy can MAKE me understand why I chose food for comfort instead of the loving and understanding family i had.

Although a little competition can be motivating I am losing weight to improve my health rather than to outdo anyone else. As such I would not regard having surgery as cheating in the same way that drug taking in sport is cheating.

On the other hand surgery has it's own risks, complications and time required to recover and here in the UK it may well be done on the NHS at the expense of the taxpayer so for all those reasons it should always be a last resort.

The surgery is necessary forsome people it is NOT the easy way out. That being said surgery is not at all easy and your stomach is not removed it is still there you can bypass the surgery and gain the weightback but why would you? You have to understand some of the people who have had the surgery have been overweight all of their lives and have never had a day that went by that some one wasn't telling them to just use their will power and to deal with their food issues. Most surgeons will not operate on people who are not at least 100 pounds overweight most people also have other health issues. You also have the wrong idea about no exercise and no diet you are on a very strict diet and you have to exercise every day. Some people will gain the weight back but it is a very few and most people went thru to much to ever bypass the surgery.

from personal experience, and from having done both, here is my take:

8 yrs ago, at 35, I was depressed and desperate, I had tried everything, and lost and regained over and over. On weight watchers some years prior, I had lost 60 lbs, and then, gained it all back. I was 272 ish at that time. I gave up. I figured there was no hope, that my stomach was so large, that I'd never be able to eat like a normal person. That I was DAMAGED and that I truly could never lose and stay at a healthy weight without surgical intervention. I BELIEVED this, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

This was NOT a cop out, not a desire to do this the 'easy' way, but a desperate attempt to keep myself from ballooning yearly until I became one of those people you see on TV that cannot get out of their homes.

I feared this. And I wanted to have a baby too - and figured I'd only gain a ton more weight if I got pregnant and - well - I was absolutely desperate.

Insurance was out of the question - it was out of pocket - and at $24k + as an the price, I began researching other options. I finally found a solution. Surgery in Mexico -at 7k for the band. I researched the band dr's and found one that had done over 1000 of the surgeries - which back then - was a BIG deal.

I Hopped on a plane on a wednesday night, flew to texas, stayed in a hotel until Thursday morning, was driven across the border to mexico with another patient. Checked in, and had surgery with in a few hours. Stayed the night in the mexican hospital, picked up my medication at the mexican pharmacy, and was driven back over the border Friday afternoon to stay in a hotel in texas until Saturday morning when I flew back home. I forget how many hours - but I think it was probably 3 or 4, on a plane, 2 days after surgery. Easy???? Cop Out???? Seriously???

I was alone - i forgot to mention that. my husband and family were still back here, I did this all by myself. Strangers, foreign country, surgery, flying back for hours on a plane so soon after...

ANYONE who says this is the lazy way out, seriously has no idea what they are talking about. They are coming from a point in their lives where they truly believe that anyone can do it if they try hard enough. What they don't understand, is that people that do this, believe with all their heart, that conventional methods will NOT work for them. That they are damaged, broken, and can't make it work without help. I don't believe anyone that goes under the knife with complication risks - including death - does so because they are too lazy to do it the other way.

Fast forward 7 years. I played with the same 40 or so lbs up and down until one day, i found I couldn't eat or drink easily anymore. Food and water wasn't going past the band easily, and I ended up sleeping in a chair because the water I drank was coming back up at night and I was choking in my sleep - waking up gagging and coughing. I had to get the band 'unfilled' which basically turns it off. It's a belt around the stomach that they tighten to squeeze close so you eat less. They loosened the belt all the way - I could eat anything I wanted, as much as I wanted - I was back to square one.

For other reasons, I never went back and had it 'filled' back up - I left it go. After a few months, the weight had started to come back on, and by march of this year, I had gained back to 268.

I was tired of the complications with the Band and was willing to give the diet and exercise one more attempt. I was half hearted, not convinced, and barely motivated because of how much I had failed in the past.

I started seeing a personal trainer, and counting calories. AND. Something happened. I began to figure it out. I began to understand, and - AND - I began to BELIEVE I could do this with out the assistance of surgery. I learned you don't have to be perfect, that it's NOT all or nothing. That you can have good days and bad, and as long as the good happen more often than the bad, you can still have progress. you don't have to be PERFECT.. you can have high calorie days dispersed among the lower days - you CAN eat treats and pizza and etc - in moderation. Life is not all about deprivation - and misery. I WAS LEARNING how to eat - and eat like a thin person eats. Not perfect all the time, but good most of the time. AND I realized I CAN DO THAT. I can be good 80-90% of the time and get results. I may not get 10-15 lbs a month results, but 5-10 lbs a month is fine, and I can handle that long term.

AND - I don't have the complications. I CAN do this - without surgery, but, I had to learn how. Knowledge is power. Understanding you don't have to be perfect. Love yourself, forgive yourself when you have bad days. I'm not doing anyone's diet or fad - I'm just burning more than I eat, 90% of the time and it's Simple. Not always easy. But simple.


So - from my place here, now, I say Diet and Exercise. but I understand it from both camps..

:flowerforyou:

I'm a nurse and I have seen the good things and bad things that go along with bariatric surgery.

I know that I am going to get lambasted for my comment, but here goes: People who need bariatric surgery are people who have weak minds and constitutions.

Yep, I just said that and I will hold to it.

Why do I say this?

I say this because every person that I know who has had bariatric surgery has learned nothing about eating healthy. They continue on with their old, junk food eating habits and then wonder why they are lacking in vitamins and mineral, why their hair is falling out, why they lack energy, etc. They also wonder why their stomach stretched back out and why they are gaining weight again.

Usually, before a person has bariatric surgery, they must go on a diet to show that they are capable of following the strict diet that people who get the surgery have to follow.

Say what??? They have to go on a diet!!!!

If they can maintain a diet before surgery, than why can't they lose the weight without the surgery.

Because they lack motivation. Bariatric surgery appeals to people who want the quick solution to a complicated problem. Just as people want the pill to control their blood pressure or diabetes instead of losing weight, some people want bariatric surgery to help them lose weight quickly instead of taking the long route where they really would learn how to eat healthy.

The motivation to follow a diet prior to bariatric surgery is the bariatric surgery itself. If only these same people would find a different motivation to get themselves to follow a diet, they would lose the weight without the surgery.

Are these people happy with their decision to have bariatric surgery? I would say that half of the people that I know that have had it (I know about 20) wish they never had it. They can't eat anything with sugar without experiencing dumping syndrome. Two of them have to wear wigs because they are losing hair in patches. One can't eat more than half a cup of food or she gets nauseous. Half of them have to be near a bathroom for an hour after eating.

Oh what fun that sounds like!

Then we have a MFP friend who I unfriended who was losing 5-6 pounds a week by eating only 500-700 calories a day post bariatric surgery. You want to eat like that, fine. Just don't friend me.

Do they have bragging rights?

I don't feel that they do. They didn't really work hard to lose the weight. Yeah, maybe they exercised a bit, but they certainly are limited in the number of calories they can eat because the stomach is smaller. Additionally, they don't learn to listen to their body or eat healthy, unless they really go out of their way to do so. Some just continue eating their crappy food, like Fritos or potato chips, just in smaller portions.

So, no, I don't think that they should have bragging rights. If I had a person who had bariatric surgery and lost 100 pounds and another person who lost 100 pounds the old fashion way standing in front of me, I would respect the later more than the former because they worked hard in order to lose that weight. The person who had bariatric surgery took the easy route.

Basically, you gained the weight shoveling food in your mouth and sitting on your butt all day. Do the opposite and you will lose weight.

And don't give me that "I have a disease that causes me to eat" story. There are only two diseases that cause people to eat - Bardet-Biedl syndrome and Prader-Willi syndrome. Look them up. They are very uncommon, so you better have proof to show me that you have either of those two if you are going to say you have a disease that causes you to eat. Unless you have either of those two diseases, the only disease that you have is what I call hand-to-mouth syndrome.

Personally, i watched my sister go thru the weight loss surgery and lose over 200 pounds. She got major infections, spent a month in hospital nearly dying. She had the surgery not only for weightloss but to keep from becoming diabetic. Now, she is about 190 at 6'3 and is glad she had the surgery, but turns out she is diabetic after all. Only she is on the low side. She will be talking one minute and sugar drops to 35 and she has to lay down quickly. She gets cold and clamy and sweats terribly.. She brings it back up with M & M's. Switched her addiction from food to M&M's and beer casue she doesnt want to get fat again.. At the end of the day, i have decided that i too, need to do it the old fashioned way. I am a firm believer that surgery is for some but not all. I'm too afraid after watching what she went thru. She is much happier now, but still not healthy. The excess skin is an issue also. For me, i would like to have the surgery only so it will come off quickly because we all want results instantly. I just have to keep telling myself that i didnt put it on overnight, so its not going to come off overnight.

I see a lot of people stating that they "tried every diet out there" before getting the surgery. I think that's the issue.. a lot of people tried to fad DIET their way out of it and didn't deal with their overeating issues upfront.

If you have an overeating issue, you shouldn't resolve that by removing most of your stomach. Go through therapy and FIGHT to avoid the cravings. It's completely possible.. to say that you /had/ to get part of your stomach removed to lose weight seems silly to me. That is why people say it's the "easy way out". Everybody knows that surgery itself is not fun or easy.

i appreciate your point of view, but if you have never been a food addict, then you really cannot even begin to understand what our "cravings" do to us. i have been to counseling, therapy. weight watchers, take a buddy to the gym, high protein-low carb, low fat etc etc....they haven't been all fad diets. when people have an emotional attachment to food, it is literally like giving up your best friend. and if you have never had to deal with that, it may sound silly because "it's just food." you can buffalo a counselor, you can talk your way right out of therapy and hell, i can even convince myself that i'm ok without it.....but like any "addict" that needs help, at the end of the day, i always caved.......because it was that one thing that made me feel good(maybe only for a minute)for 20 some years of my life....that's not something you can just "fight" off the urge for. the problem with food addiction is that it is NOT like a drug addiction, you cannot be "cured" because unfortunately even food addicts HAVE to eat to survive....i dont need drugs or alcohol to SURVIVE......there is NO being "sober" from food ever! People who have not had to fight this type of addiction will never understand the reasoning behind surgery(if so chosen) and they will always see it as a simple solution.....i for one am/ was addicted to food, i fight that battle everyday of my life and i always will......when i had surgery, i willingly gave up my "best friend, comfort, security blanket, and companion" to be a better me, to be a better mother and girlfriend. without having done so i would be NO kind of example for my children, because i would still be a very fat, unhealthy and unhappy addict. there is no dealing with the issue upfront because sometimes even us addicts will never know what the real issue ever was.....no amount of counseling or therapy can MAKE me understand why I chose food for comfort instead of the loving and understanding family i had.

Wow. I'm sorry, but most of us wouldn't be here if we didn't have an unhealthy relationship with food. It's not just you, it's ALL of us. The path that you choose to resolve the issue is what is being discussed.. not whether or not you had a difficult relationship with food.

You ARE capable of eating less/healthier options without surgery. To think otherwise is ridiculous and this is why people call it the easy way out. Instead of investing time to sort all of these issues out, most people just give up and say "well, I guess I don't know how to stop eating all of this food. I'll just go get surgery and maybe that will work and I'll magically figure everything out that way".

With the exception of very extreme medical conditions, you are capable of doing this but you couldn't fully commit. This is why some people will refer to those who get surgery as 'weak', because you gave up the fight and opted to have a doctor solve your problems for you.

I considered it seriously. And, if this doesn't work, then I am not taking it off the table. It turns out, that I had an undiagnosed thyroid condition for years that made weight loss nearly impossible. I would try, struggling for years on a very calorie restrictive diet and doing crazy amounts of exercise; losing a smidge each week before it would stop altogether. I would leave weight watchers in tears. It was horrendously frustrating and it left me feeling hopeless. So yes, I looked into surgery. Fortunately, now that I am under the care of an endo, it's coming off and will hopefully continue to do so. But, I will never, ever judge someone for whatever path they take in their weight struggles.

Deciding to go ahead with a painful & life-threatening surgery isn't easy, it's an act of desperation.

What is with this concept of "Bragging rights?"
We're talking about life and death stuff here. I'll take life without bragging rights any day.

I am in no way a proponent of surgery. It's serious business and I had a hard time accepting my wife's decision at first. But I have seen how transformational this has been for her.

It's kind of a double edged sword. One side of the argument is "OH you just cut your stomach in half so you would force yourself to eat more" and the other side is "I still had to plan meals, count calories, etc." My personal opinion? It is an accomplishment, by far, to lose weight. Someone who does it without surgery I would say deserve more credit, as they naturally did it with teaching themselves how to eat correctly, how to feel satiated and what is good and bad. Those with surgery they also deserve credit, but to an extent. I would give the person 60-80% of the congratulations, but the remainder to the surgery. Now you could simply eat less and not change your dietary habits at all with the surgery, or do something more effective and simply eat the right foods to live a more healthier lifestyle, just with a small tummy.

Just one other thought---

how many of you ladies had an epidural when you delivered your child?

Shame on you--you cheater, you did not do it the natural way---you took a short cut, the easy way out, you didn't really experience the pain of childbirth. You can't brag on that baby because you didn't do it naturally.

How foolish--celebrate your child and that you are healthy and happy and forget the rest!!!!

I don't think anyone walks around saying "yay me for delivering my baby" do you? They're proud of the child--not the fact that they experienced pain. Much different than someone wanting a pat on the back for losing weight via surgery.

no it's not...based on your judgemental earlier posts its exactly the same...so shame on every mom out there for taking an epidural...

im not hating on anyone or anyone's opinion. but most of the people who have commented about the weight loss surgeries are wrong and uneducated about the procedures and qualifications. i was sincere when i said i appreciated your point of view. a sick relationship with food is what, eventually, leads to the path of surgery. it's just not as simple as finding the cause of the one's overeating that will fix the problem. i was not trying to pick at your comment just simply trying to get people who have not had the surgery to understand or at least attempt to be empathetic.....we all have our demons, and sometimes we need a helping hand to cut them loose.

You asked that someone "correct you if you are wrong"--you are wrong if the person had a RNY weightloss surgery. The surgery can change your hormonal function and cause your body to respond differently to the food you eat. That is why some people no longer have diabetes immediately after their surgery--- not, after losing the weeight, but before even leaving the hospital.

This surgery doesn't just make your stomach smaller so you cannot eat as much, but also changes your bowel and the way your body absorbs the food you eat--so, it is forcing your body to work differently than before hormonaly as well as functionally.

That is why it is now being considered as a surgery that can possibly cure diabetes Type 2.

So many people on this site have so much to say about something they know nothing about!!!

First of all I asked the question and I guess you "think" you answered it, but you did NOT. There is NO surgery out there that literally removes the weight off a person except liposuction or lopping the fat off your butt! Okay this type of WLS changes your hormonal functioning and makes it so you fill fuller sooner, and your body responds different to food that you eat - I will give you that - I believe you - but it does not remove the weight! That is done when your body responds to the surgery and you can't eat like you did - For WHATEVER reason, hormones, feeling full, eating less, feeling hungry sooner. Any WLS person will have to alter their style of eating, relationship with food and what they put in their mouth in order to lose weight and when if they (or anyone that has lost weight even without surgery) stop doing that - and makes crappy food choices and eats (in whatever manner) more calories than they need - they will gain weight. It's not rock science. And there is NO cure for diabetes - period, even in the cases of WLS it's not proven the sugery cures diabetes. I can assure you if the person remains sedentary, gains weight and eats unhealthy regardless of how much surgery has re-routed and bypassed their innerds, the blood sugar levels will become elevated again.

I am giving those with WLS surgeries a kudo for at least knowing their limits and for those that have lose weight - I am acknowledging their very hard work - I am not giving credit to the surgery! My post was saying it bothers me when I hear people say "I could not lose weight without the surgery" because the surgery only assists them with one aspect of losing weight and getting healthy - and it's a aspect so many of them COULD do themselves and DO after the surgery in order to actually lose the weight!

I think the phrase should be "I was not able to lose weight without the sugery". You know what there are alot of people on this site that has something to say, and it's their right to do so. Just because it's something you don't want to hear, or because you disagree does not mean they know nothing.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that generally people who have gastric bypass/lap band are put on a high protein/low carb/low fat diet, therefore they end up burning a lot of their own body fat. If this type of diet was first recommended to the patient and the protocol was strictly followed, then couldn't it save lots of people from thousands of dollars worth of surgery, not to mention the irreversible effects?

Second point: type II diabetes is reversed almost instantly (within a week give or take) after gastric bypass, again, mostly due to reduction of carbohydrate intake and fasting.

Either way I think a diet intervention would be much preferable. I haven't had it and hope to never have it, nor do I judge people who have. I just wish patients were more informed of the diet intervention previous to making the decision.

The reason that they are put on the high protein diet is to reduce the insulin output from the pancreas. It works like this:

In individuals who are morbidly obese, when they eat something that contains sugar or will be broken down into sugar (carbohydrates), the pancreas puts out insulin. In a normal weight person, the amount put out would be fairly close to what the body needs to move the glucose into the cells. For a morbidly obese person, the pancreas has figured out that it better put out more insuline than needed, just in case. So, the morbidly obese person eats the food, the pancreas puts out more insulin than needed, and once the glucose is moved into the cells, there will be insulin running around in the blood. This causes the person to become hungry and so they eat again, repeating the positive feedback cycle.

Now, if a morbidly obese person has bariatric surgery, they will be limited on what they can ingest. The pancreas doesn't compute this immediately. Therefore, when the obese person eats their first meal after surgery, the pancreas will fall back to its old habit of producing more insulin than needed. This will through the person into a state of hypoglycemia and could kill them.

In order to prevent this from happening, the patient is put on a low carb or absent diet. Basically, it is very high protein. This is done so that the pancreas can reset itself back to a normal state where it will only put out enough insulin to move the glucose into the cells.

Problem is that many patients cheat on the diet. They are often not told about the true intent of the high protein diet prior to surgery. Where they think it is just to show that they can follow the diet, they will cheat a little, maybe a donut hear or a crumpet there. In the end, this harms them because they will then have hypoglycemic episodes post-surgery because the pancreas will not have been retrained.

Hope that makes sense.