Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?

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  • chinatbag
    chinatbag Posts: 249 Member
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    It can't be easy to do a 2nd hand smoke study though. Smoking diseases are typically long-term and slow-moving. You'd have to subject a large group of non-smokers to a set amount of smoke over a period of years and then compare their health to a control group to get results. I can't imagine many people would volunteer for that!

    Once you start taking self-selecting groups and trying to draw conclusions from their outcomes you leave yourself open to criticisms of your methods or stated results.

    But this study-talk is really OT so I'll stop now.

    I actually think your post is pretty valid. However, there are studies done on non-smokers who do get exposed to second hand smoke (casino workers, bar workers, restaurant staff, etc). The studies were done over years and include the measurement in the purity of air inside the establishment and the purity or quality of air outside the establishment. The results of the study are in agreement that due to the particle matter left in the air by smokers, removing smoking in that establishment has greatly improved the quality of air for workers and thus reduced risks for workers.
  • BeautyFromPain
    BeautyFromPain Posts: 4,952 Member
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    I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.

    Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.

    I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.

    Feel free to kill yourself in your home. The point is you shouldn't force other people to breathe in your toxic smoke.

    DO NOT EVER, EVER, EVER TELL SOMEONE IT IS OKAY TO COMMIT SUICIDE!!!!!!!!! :explode:
  • fraser112
    fraser112 Posts: 405
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    Fraser that could be the dumbest thing I ever heard.
    Which bit the reason drugs are illegal or the fact being fat is exactly like being a smoker?
  • ravenlaramie
    ravenlaramie Posts: 165 Member
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    I debated whether or not I should join this topic- personally I see it getting locked any time.

    I don't believe smokers are selfish scum anymore than I think they are persecuted. They and only they have made the choice to pick up smoking. No one made that choice for them. Neither should that choice be taken from them. If they choose to smoke in their own house and you don't want to be around it... then don't go.

    I also don't believe the government should have the authority to decide whether or not establishments allow smoking. The establishment should have the choice to allow it or not- they had that choice before and you had the ones that DID allow it, and the ones that did not.
  • EverlastBoston
    EverlastBoston Posts: 421 Member
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    I remember when I had my first beer!!
  • fraser112
    fraser112 Posts: 405
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    I remember when I had my first beer!!
    Are you high ?
  • thebigcb
    thebigcb Posts: 2,210 Member
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    I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.

    Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.

    I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.

    Feel free to kill yourself in your home. The point is you shouldn't force other people to breathe in your toxic smoke.

    Who exactly do I force to breath in toxic smoke?
  • OllyReeves
    OllyReeves Posts: 579 Member
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    I don't think smokers are selfish scum but I don't think they're 'persecuted' either.

    I think part of the problem for non-smokers is that cigarette smoke really is disgusting. It smells bad and clings to your clothes so it makes you smell bad. I don't like spending time in a smoky atmosphere because I find it so unpleasant. I'm not sure smokers are actually aware of just how bad it/they can smell.

    To me it's no different to asking me to sit next to a piss-soaked wino, except he won't bleat on and on about being opressed.
    So who is forcing you to sit in smokey atmospheres? You can always leave right?
    When did I say anyone was forcing me to do anything

    It is the case, however, that smokers smell bad. Not just when they are actually smoking, but all day, from the first cig to the last. I work with a smoker and she goes out to smoke. I can smell it on her from across the desk or when walking behind her in the office. I put up with it the same way I'd put up with a colleague's BO or bad breath, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I would object, however, if she lit up in the office as that gives me no way to avoid it.

    Does she know she smells bad? Probably. Does she continue to smoke? Yes. Does that make her selfish? I'd say that makes her an addict. She spends over £50 a week on a habit that wrecks her skin, makes her smell and could kill her - being selfish is the least of her worries! Maybe if she was persecuted *a bit* she'd give up?

    Just to carry on your point: Obese people smell bad, that foul smell of sweat and crap all rolled into one.
    and before anyone says discrimination im basing this on personal times when ive been stuck next to them.

    But god forbid i say anything about that fat guy or girl taking up 2 seats, making the bus smell of rancid mayo. But these are strong woman who no matter how horribly they hate skinny girls are all beautiful on the inside and should be proud of thier rolls of fat.

    I would go as far to say being obese has a much higher price to pay than a smoker.
    Fat kids will get bullied i school no matter what you do, they will die early and will suffer a worse life because of it.
    if you go after smokers you must go after the obese, its a choice just like smoking.

    obese people smell bad? you ignorant arrogant moron!!
  • Erisad
    Erisad Posts: 1,580
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    That's fine if they want to give themselves cancer but don't blow smoke in my face when I say that I don't smoke, that's just rude. Also, why do smokers get extra breaks at work but I don't? I should be entitled to a fresh air break as well. :)
  • MrsM1ggins
    MrsM1ggins Posts: 724 Member
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    I have a friend whose workplace lets you work shorter hours if you don't smoke - makes up for the smokers' smoke breaks.
  • fraser112
    fraser112 Posts: 405
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    obese people smell bad? you ignorant arrogant moron!!
    [/quote]

    smoking people smell bad? you ignorant arrogant moron!!

    see my point?
  • Erisad
    Erisad Posts: 1,580
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    I have a friend whose workplace lets you work shorter hours if you don't smoke - makes up for the smokers' smoke breaks.

    Shorter hours = less money. Sooo they get paid longer hours when they spend most of it outside smoking? I mean, most of the managers smoked there so I was the odd one out. Happy to say my current job doesn't do that. Smokers have their own separate break room with a vent that leads outside and if they want to smoke, they gotta do it on the same break times as everyone else. :)
  • ilovedeadlifts
    ilovedeadlifts Posts: 2,923 Member
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    I'm not a fan of people who smoke in public. I think it's rude.

    Bottom line is you shouldn't really have the right to smoke in public. It is an addiction, and I hate it for you, but do it at home. Aside from bothering people with allergies or asthma, you're also setting a bad example for the kids that may be around you.................
  • MrsM1ggins
    MrsM1ggins Posts: 724 Member
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    I have a friend whose workplace lets you work shorter hours if you don't smoke - makes up for the smokers' smoke breaks.

    Shorter hours = less money. Sooo they get paid longer hours when they spend most of it outside smoking? I mean, most of the managers smoked there so I was the odd one out. Happy to say my current job doesn't do that. Smokers have their own separate break room with a vent that leads outside and if they want to smoke, they gotta do it on the same break times as everyone else. :)
    Wouldn't be much of a perk for the non-smokers if they lost money - they don't. I appreciate that it wouldn't work in an environment where you get paid based on the hours you are clocked-in.
  • OllyReeves
    OllyReeves Posts: 579 Member
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    obese people smell bad? you ignorant arrogant moron!!

    smoking people smell bad? you ignorant arrogant moron!!

    see my point?
    [/quote]

    No I don't see your point. Smokers smell of smoke, it's unavoidable. Some non smokers smell bad whether they are obese or thin as a rake. One is not connected to the other.
  • Erisad
    Erisad Posts: 1,580
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    I have a friend whose workplace lets you work shorter hours if you don't smoke - makes up for the smokers' smoke breaks.

    Shorter hours = less money. Sooo they get paid longer hours when they spend most of it outside smoking? I mean, most of the managers smoked there so I was the odd one out. Happy to say my current job doesn't do that. Smokers have their own separate break room with a vent that leads outside and if they want to smoke, they gotta do it on the same break times as everyone else. :)
    Wouldn't be much of a perk for the non-smokers if they lost money - they don't. I appreciate that it wouldn't work in an environment where you get paid based on the hours you are clocked-in.

    Wait. I'm confused. You said you get shorter hours if you don't smoke. I'm too tired for this. Off to work! :laugh:
  • MrsM1ggins
    MrsM1ggins Posts: 724 Member
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    I have a friend whose workplace lets you work shorter hours if you don't smoke - makes up for the smokers' smoke breaks.

    Shorter hours = less money. Sooo they get paid longer hours when they spend most of it outside smoking? I mean, most of the managers smoked there so I was the odd one out. Happy to say my current job doesn't do that. Smokers have their own separate break room with a vent that leads outside and if they want to smoke, they gotta do it on the same break times as everyone else. :)
    Wouldn't be much of a perk for the non-smokers if they lost money - they don't. I appreciate that it wouldn't work in an environment where you get paid based on the hours you are clocked-in.

    Wait. I'm confused. You said you get shorter hours if you don't smoke. I'm too tired for this. Off to work! :laugh:
    Yes. Everyone doing the same job gets the same pay. The smokers do more hours, since some of their time is spent smoking, not working.
  • fraser112
    fraser112 Posts: 405
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    obese people smell bad? you ignorant arrogant moron!!

    smoking people smell bad? you ignorant arrogant moron!!

    see my point?

    No I don't see your point. Smokers smell of smoke, it's unavoidable. Some non smokers smell bad whether they are obese or thin as a rake. One is not connected to the other.
    [/quote]

    I would say 8 outta 10 of the real obese people i see have a strong smell. Honestly the bit i dont get
    Both make the person less atractive
    both cost the goverment money
    Both destroy peoples lifes
    both ruin the kids life
    why the hell is it ok to say we can bully this group but not the others?
    It honestly makes no sense to me at all.

    If i made the same thread about a woman chosing to love her obesity it would be
    oh you hero, so brave so idependent.

    why is one detrimental habit ok and the other not? please tell me because i see no logic in it.
  • ilovedeadlifts
    ilovedeadlifts Posts: 2,923 Member
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    I would say 8 outta 10 of the real obese people i see have a strong smell. Honestly the bit i dont get
    Both make the person less atractive
    both cost the goverment money
    Both destroy peoples lifes
    both ruin the kids life
    why the hell is it ok to say we can bully this group but not the others?
    It honestly makes no sense to me at all.

    If i made the same thread about a woman chosing to love her obesity it would be
    oh you hero, so brave so idependent.

    why is one detrimental habit ok and the other not? please tell me because i see no logic in it.

    I'd say I draw the line at the point where obese people don't negatively affect my health if they're in the same room as me. But smokers do................................

    I can see your points, and I'm not a fan of obese people either. I think they need to get their **** together in most situations.
  • chinatbag
    chinatbag Posts: 249 Member
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    why is one detrimental habit ok and the other not? please tell me because i see no logic in it.

    For the most part, I think it's because personal body image is important and obesity isn't necessarily harmful to someone who is just nearby where has second hand smoke can be. Second, body image is pretty important, otherwise, why would slim people want to put on muscle mass or why would someone who is large want to lose weight? Judging people on looks is considered taboo, you wouldn't openly call someone ugly, it's hurtful and an attack on their appearance, it doesn't benefit the person hearing it unless they turn it into motivation.

    It's unfitting to compare the two, even though they carry similar risks to the individual.

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