Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?

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  • SaraBrown12
    SaraBrown12 Posts: 277 Member
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    Clearly science proves second hand smoke is harmful or they would not have banned it and spent the money implicating the changes.
    Politicians work for votes, not for the best interest of the people they govern.
    Those that try to work purely for the latter won't stay in office.

    They also in the UK get paid via our taxes. Banning cigarettes that carry very hefty taxes? That seems a somewhat retarded thing to do without good reason because essentially they are hitting their own pockets?
  • Litlbeast
    Litlbeast Posts: 340 Member
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    First of all that link is pure BS and is no way a published medical journal. Second, my stance is simply dont go where smoking is allowed. Nobody is forced to breathe smoke. If you choose to attend a place that allows smoking, dont complain about the smoke.

    Here you go, burk. It's the EPA.

    http://www.epa.gov/smokefre/pubs/strsfs.html
  • Masterdo
    Masterdo Posts: 331 Member
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    Selfish scum, as demonstrated in this thread multiple times too :p

    I gave my parents TONS of crap growing up since they were smoking. It's pretty easy once you live on your own to avoid smoke since it's pretty much banned everywhere you might go, but I still firmly think parents smoking in front of heir children should be executed, starting with mine.

    The miserable excuse for a human being that quoted that it's "their" children so they get to choose probably thinks the same thing about, you know, beating or raping them. How dare they oppose their all mighty parents. I mean, you had sex, so you know better right?
  • Lisaherbalmomma
    Lisaherbalmomma Posts: 63
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    People should not be allowed to smoke in any place where the smoke might be inhaled by myself or my children. They should not be allowed to smoke in any place where any children whatsoever might inhale the smoke. That includes pretty much anywhere, including inside their homes in the case of an apartment building or thickly settled neighborhood unless they live in a place that is isolated enough. I used to be a smoker, quit four years ago. I'm ashamed that I exposed other people to cigarette smoke but I was ignorant at the time.

    No, you weren't ignorant 4 yrs ago unless your parents chained you to a bed, fed you cigs and let you loose 4 yrs ago. YOUdecided for your health that you would quit smoking, just like before that YOU decided it was bad, but you wanted to smoke anyway. Which by the way, is totally fine with me. Now, that you don't smoke in public anymore, YOU have decided that no one else should either. That's bordering on hypocrisy and is definitely controlling and selfishness. I'm amazed at all the people that think the gov't should control our every living, breathing moment. Has common sense become so rare that we need a dictatorial gov't telling us what to do? With so many people dependent on the gov't for their living and guidance, I'm afraid she's gonna run dry!

    I'm not a smoker and don't like smoke. I used to have a sign in my office that said, "Thank you for not smoking". It worked. My friend had a sign in her office that said, "Thank you for holding your breath while I smoke" I loved it. It was her choice!

    I can't even continue to read the posts on this thread. It saddens me how many people have lost their dignity and want the govt to control us and just because you have an opinion on the subject think it should be a law! Sad!
  • spiregrain
    spiregrain Posts: 254 Member
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    So far people are commenting on how smokers are inconsiderate. The debate isnt whether or not smokers should be more considerate. Should a business owner be told that they cant allow smoking in their own establishment?

    Yes, and a total *whatever* to arguments that focus on the consumer's right to smoke -- the consumer, also, can chose to step outside to smoke -- just as they can chose to follow other social niceties businesses enforce, like "no shirt, no shoes, no service". There are lots of places you can't pound shots of tequila, like at the supermarket or Babies"R"Us. Deal.

    The real reason that it shouldn't be allowed in the workplace is because if it is, the business owners are putting their employees health at risk for their own profit. Food service is such a huge industry, and it often employs people who could not at that time find a better job elsewhere. Including people with qualifications and education, especially in this crappy economy -- not that this should matter, but, it' not "just people too lazy for college" who work in food service. So, because you fell on harder times, you should just have to suck it up and deal with possible long term health risks? And how many of these businesses offer health benefits to help their employees with this risk, again?

    Isn't this generally a law that people voted on? It's one thing if the government was a dictatorship but it's not... just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's unfair.

    Businesses that went out of business because they couldn't offer smoking sections anymore must not have had much to offer -- I say good riddance if we can have great businesses that survive on their merits.
  • BamsieEkhaya
    BamsieEkhaya Posts: 657 Member
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    The real question is why is smoking still legal at all. It has been proven to kill. But then again McDonalds is still here and their food will kill you. lol
    I am a former smoker.

    Cell Phones and Driving ARE illegal in my state. The combination HAS been proven to be a killer. Yet, everyday I drive, I see well over 50% of the drivers with a cell phone to their head as they drive.

    You won't be able to legislate a country of non-smokers. You'll add legal pot-smokers to the mix before you stop smoking in America.

    Put this debate to rest. It's useless and non-productive. Where are all the underpantie threads?

    not to mention in the UK of 75% of the price of ciggs are tax, as a de-merit good people are willing to spend more money on *kitten* than what they are actually worth and governments can exploit the addiction to a certain extent and also if it were to be banned likelihood like most drugs it'd end up on the black market.
  • trudance4
    trudance4 Posts: 75
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    Well smoking is bad big deal, up to the person if they smoke or not!! Nanny state is bloody right - they are gonna make alcohol and fast food illegal soon!!

    You cant say smokers cause all the trouble on the NHS when 10% of the NHS budget is for diabetes and then you have regular problems with drinkers every week!! dont get me wrong I love a bottle of wine!

    I grew up with my granda, uncle and mother smoking, and yes I have modertaly severe asthma but that is nothing to do with smoking, it runs in my family, my mother stopped smoking when she was pregnant withg me and guess what my baby sister doesnt have asthma!

    I have seen how distructive smoking can be with my granda, but you know what, he liked a cigeratte, so if that was one of his only joys - go for it!!

    My boyfriend smokes and yes I do shout at him because it isnt nice kissing a smoker but even more than that he doesnt even like it! so thats why I shout at him!!

    Freedom of choice in my opinion - do what ya gotta do - live and let live!!

    But people have got to stop telling others what to do just because they dont agree with it!
  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,720 Member
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    Selfish scum, as demonstrated in this thread multiple times too :p

    I gave my parents TONS of crap growing up since they were smoking. It's pretty easy once you live on your own to avoid smoke since it's pretty much banned everywhere you might go, but I still firmly think parents smoking in front of heir children should be executed, starting with mine.

    The miserable excuse for a human being that quoted that it's "their" children so they get to choose probably thinks the same thing about, you know, beating or raping them. How dare they oppose their all mighty parents. I mean, you had sex, so you know better right?

    And when I see reactions like this I know I'm on the right side of the argument.

    Or.. you know.. kill people for smoking. Sounds swell.
  • MattBoySlim
    MattBoySlim Posts: 62 Member
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    It's right that smoking should be banned in enclosed public spaces, the legislation is to protect the employee's and staff, not the other patrons, after all why should someone have to change career/job in order to not breath in cigerette smoke.
    Ah, well I'm getting back from using this computer chair in our hot-desk office.

    I say all computer chairs should be banned and replaced with bean bags.

    Why should I have to change career/job in order to not get bad back?

    (Ok, I'm self employed and the only employee, so that scenario isn't a reality.)

    Anyone getting a job in somewhere that allows smoking would have known that smoking was allowed before they started the job - they chose the job regardless.
    Just as other jobs have dangers associated with them - for instance construction work, factory work or yes even office work.

    If you google I am sure you will find the correct position for setting up your chair and desk to avoid back pain and discomfort :) all the other jobs you refer to take pre appropriate action to limit dangers dont they? safety hats, goggles, gloves.
  • lenniebus
    lenniebus Posts: 321 Member
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    I am an ex-smoker...and it is an addiction no doubt. I do believe I was somewhat selfish in that I was killing myself when I had people that relied on me. I also wasn't treating myself very well. I was considerate around others in that I didn't believe my addiction was their problem, but I'm also very sympathetic and don't believe anyone should be treated badly. I think many people are rude and insensitive to smokers, but I've also seen rude and insensitive smokers.
  • lovemykids58
    lovemykids58 Posts: 195 Member
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    I dont smoke but I find all the anti smoking crap to be over the top. Here in Ohio smoking is banned in all public places which is crazy. If I own a business, it should be my choice as to whether or not I allow smoking in my establishment. If someone wants to eat at my restaurant but doesnt like all the smoke, guess what? They can go eat somewhere else. No one is making them eat there. You have to make a choice. Either my food is so good that you will put up with the smoke, or you can go eat else where. Pretty simple. Here in the town I live in I have seen businesses go out of business due to the smoking ban. Bowling allies are getting crushed. Smokers are not going to spend their money at a place, spend 4-5 hours there and not be able to smoke. Also, the whole argument that smokers cost us money in healthcare is also false. Smokers die younger, thats a fact. Therefore, they save us money in the long run. What ever happen to personal choices and personal responsibility? Whatever happen to a property owners right to decide what they are going to allow on their own property? The nanny state is out of control. And there is no shortage of people that think that anything they dont like should be banned. Its crazy.
    I also live in Ohio. I WAS a smoker when the ban took place. I no longer smoke ( not due to the ban)

    I think that its GREAT people can no longer smoke in restaurants. Why should non-smokers be FORCED to breath 2nd hand smoke and get negative side effects from something someone else has done. People are free to smoke in their cars, homes and outside at bars and other locations.

    If i want to take my family out to eat or go bowling I dont want to be forced to sit in a toxic environment-period
  • CincinnatiDEIFan
    CincinnatiDEIFan Posts: 188 Member
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    Cig smoke is a migraine trigger for my 9 year old (as is caffeine and barometric pressure changes). In order to continue keeping her off her preventative medications *yes at 9 she has been on several*....I have to keep her away from it....

    Even if that means having a watress pack up our food and leave a resturant. How fair is that to a 9 year old?

    :-(
  • Pedal_Pusher
    Pedal_Pusher Posts: 1,166 Member
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    neither
  • lovemykids58
    lovemykids58 Posts: 195 Member
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    Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.


    That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.

    Oh really? Not a single study anywhere in the world? How about this one from the World Health Org.:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/11/26/us-smoking-passive-deaths-idUSTRE6AP00D20101126

    I guess 165,000 deaths a year is a small price for these children to pay for the liberty of their parents to smoke, though, is what you're saying.

    As a mom I should add that passive smoking is considered a risk factor for SIDS, due to -- gasp -- evidence that it's a risk factor for SIDS.
    I have no compassion for self absorbed people who think they should be able to tell others how to live.

    LOL. Yes, people who don't want to breathe your smoke are definitely the ones who are self absorbed. And you're not imposing on others at all when you do it.

    You know, typically I am for the right of people to be able to do their own self destructive crap, find their own way with it. But your arguments for it have singlehandedly tipped me completely into the against camp on this topic.

    I'm an ex-smoker.

    This^
  • magj0y
    magj0y Posts: 1,911 Member
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    Discuss :explode:

    everyone wanted smoking highly taxed banned in as many places as possible.

    Now they're highly taxing other things and starting to ban stuff like large sodas in NYC.
    Start taking away one right, and your's is next. hahahahaha suckers. Your double cheeseburgers are next!
  • bulbadoof
    bulbadoof Posts: 1,058 Member
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    I am someone who gets lightheaded and nauseous from just the smell of cigarette smoke. For this reason, I do not keep company with smokers. I'm grateful to the laws that protect me from cigarette smoke in public places. I have nothing against people who choose to smoke - it's not their fault I'm sensitive and it's not my place to tell them what they should or shouldn't do with their bodies. I just choose not to be around them and I'm glad legislation makes it easier for me to do so.
  • nukehiker
    nukehiker Posts: 457
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    wont date a smoker. ewwwwwwwwwwwwww!!! @ u! lol


    I completely agree 100 percent !! nothing worse then kissing someone and tasting their cigs, also the smell is in their clothes etc also. getting back on point I also live in Ohio and fully support the fact that people cant smoke in food establishments etc... why would i want smoke to be mixed in with the meal i want to enjoy ?? also if they want to smoke they can go outside and pollute themselves there !
  • randomtai
    randomtai Posts: 9,003 Member
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    Discuss :explode:

    everyone wanted smoking highly taxed banned in as many places as possible.

    Now they're highly taxing other things and starting to ban stuff like large sodas in NYC.
    Start taking away one right, and your's is next. hahahahaha suckers. Your double cheeseburgers are next!

    Yup yup because cigarettes are almost $20 a pack here and you can only smoke them in your house pretty much... And now our sodas are gone. :sad:
  • Corryn78
    Corryn78 Posts: 215
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    I'd like to enjoy a meal without inhaling a cancerous toxin!!


    Ok, so then eat somewhere that doesnt allow smoking. There were non smoking places long before smoking was banned. What gives you the right to tell me that your right to eat my food supercedes my right to make the rules for my estabishment? I would like to enjoy a meal without hearing kids whine and cry. I would like to enjoy a meal without the person next to me being covered in tattoos.


    Shouldn't be forced to eat a meal next to someone with tattoos? Bahahahahhaha :huh:

    Former smoker with tattoos :)
  • spiregrain
    spiregrain Posts: 254 Member
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    First of all that link is pure BS and is no way a published medical journal. Second, my stance is simply dont go where smoking is allowed. Nobody is forced to breathe smoke. If you choose to attend a place that allows smoking, dont complain about the smoke.

    Hahaha wow. Sorry I only went to the unreliable source that is reuters and the WHO. Here are a small number of articles from PubMed:

    Impact of a Comprehensive Smoke-Free Law Following a Partial Smoke-Free Law on Incidence of Heart Attacks at a Rural Community Hospital.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23024248

    A survey examining the countermeasures taken by restaurants to prevent passive smoking and an analysis of the economic impact of smoking prohibition in restaurants.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22991768

    Epigenetic mechanisms and the development of asthma.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23026498

    Passive Smoking and Cervical Cancer Risk: A Meta-analysis Based on 3,230 Cases and 2,982 Controls.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22938442

    Analysis of selected maternal exposures and non-syndromic atrioventricular septal defects in the National Birth Defects Prevention Study, 1997-2005.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22903798

    Parental smoking and risk of childhood cancer: hospital-based case-control study in Shiraz.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22259888

    Clearly not one of these studies exists in the whole world...

    Edit -- I should add, this was a small selection of what is on PubMed. I skipped over ones that seemed tangentially related to the topic (like for example -- ones that list what all the risk factors are for some condition, and there are like 90 of them, and smoking is one of the 90) and went for the first handful that seemed more or less directly related to the topic. I didn't look for ones that prove smoking is bad, but, by some crazy coincidence, they all suggest it's a lot worse than I ever thought it was. Like -- I didn't realize smoking increased your risk of developing cervical cancer by so much. I never thought the heart attack rate in a community would decrease by that much when smoking was banned. And I was surprised that in the survey about restaurants, 95% who banned smoking outright saw no change, and 1 point something saw an increase in business, and only 3 point something saw a decrease in business -- I guess my pipe dream that restaurants that subsist on being trashy smoky dives alone would fold was presumptive. I was also surprised to see the interesting result that while maternal smoking was not linked to childhood cancer, paternal smoking and maternal passive smoking are strongly linked. You would think the mom smoking while pregnant would be a bigger factor -- interesting stuff, these nonexistent-in-the-whole-world articles.

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