Are men wired to cheat...?

Humans are animals. Cognitive reasoning is one aspect of human biology.

This. I'm glad to see there's at least one other smart person on MFP who understands the difference between biological imperatives vs. rational thinking, and how they coexist in the same being, and even the same brain. But ya gotta simplify...

Biological imperative: EAT CHOCOLATE CAKE UNTIL STUFFED. FEELS GOOD. NOW! NOW!!!
Cognitive reasoning: This is too much cake for my dietary needs, If I eat too much chocolate cake I'm going to be fat and miserable in the future, so I'm going to skip it.

Biological imperative: F--K SEXY HOT NEW PERSON. FEELS GOOD. NOW!! NOW! NOW!!!
Cognitive reasoning: Having sex with that person would be cheating since I promised not to. If I do I will lose the trust of my spouse, who won't trust me in the future, so I'm going to skip it.

Yes, we have "wiring" to seek sexual variety, men more so than women, since men can easily make 10 babies a day, and women can only make 1 every 9 months.. But we have rational brains to overcome that, in service of a greater goal. That's not a moral excuse to cheat, but it explains where the feelings come from.

Fortunately, these old part of our brains aren't very smart... it can be tricked with porn, 50 shades, and Splenda.

Yes indeed. Nicely stated!

If a man (or woman) is "wired" to cheat....then they have wired themselves that way through their behavior. Contrary to popular myth, sleeping around with a ton of people prior to making a marriage commitment (or habitual cheating inside supposedly committed relationships) does not "get it out your system". In fact it does the opposite, it makes it more unlikely you won't cheat in marriage since you have not been training yourself to be satisfied with one person. I'm not saying every person who has slept around before marriage is going to cheat. I'm saying you make it more difficult for yourself to be true. Though infidelity is a hurdle to be overcome in ALL marriage relationships, those with less sexual baggage are more likely to be satisfied with one person. Assuming of course that its a loving marriage to begin with, with 2 people who are absolutely committed to the other persons good.

That being said, just saying that "science proves that men are wired to cheat" without any supporting information is utter bull$hit.

Which would be why no one actually said that. 'Science proves' is a phrase that will never come out of the mouth (or from a keyboard) of a scientist.

Science provides evidence for x, y or z, or against them. Proof is for mathematicians.

Oooookaaaay.....

1. We are not animals.
a. Cognitive reasoning
b. Speech
c. If you don't understand the other two, we build and program computers, along with bridges, skyscrapers and indoor plumbig.

2. We sin.
a. We know what is right and do wrong

3. Just because some scientist said so doesn't mean you should believe it.

Humans are animals. Highly complicated, intelligent, emotional animals. But still animals.
Cognitive reasoning is one aspect of human biology. It could also mean it makes us clever enough to cheat and get away with it.
Speech ? So we can tell each other about it?? Not sure I get the reasoning here.
Yes, modern humans build all sorts of things. It doesn't mean we've abandoned all our biological imperatives.

'Sin' is a societal construct. It's not a concept with universal understanding by the majority of modern humans. We're talking about wiring, in the sense of instinct and natural behaviour. We put societal constraints on many of our natural urges, and we constrain them, but not every human does so, and it doesn't erase those instincts from existence. Love, faithfulness and not cheating are all good things, and many humans do them very naturally. But there are still instincts in there that can push us to do otherwise.

'right and wrong' Complicated, and not a good way to ask questions about 'wiring'. See above

Scientists generally say things that have evidentiary support provided by interrogative experimentation. It doesn't make us always right, but it certainly makes us *more likely* to be right, because we have evidence for our claims. Science is still science even if you don't like the answers!

Oh, we're do I begin?

Yes, evidence. Look in the mirror. In it you will see a complex organism whose genetic code written out would fill a library. Two orbs are complex input monitors wired to a supercomputer. Open your mouth - it serves as a part of outgoing audio, and part of a nutrient intake system. It sometimes serves as part of an emergency nutrient waste outflow system. The skin on your body serves as a heating and cooling unit, an antiviral and antibiotic coating, and a receiver of sensory input.

We haven't scratched the surface of just one aspect of a human (it's flesh). We see this highly organized evidence everyday, "science" said it was coincidental.

"Science" found a few bones in the dirt. More than 250 scientific papers were written on these bones which science said was the missing link. How many PhD dissertations were written on it I'm not sure, but I think near 100. Forty years later, wha wa waaaaa....it was a hoax.

One arrowhead or clay pot can convince a scientist intelligent beings created it, but the most complicated, intelligent thing on earth - man - the same scientist thinks is coincidence. No wonder he thinks he came from a monkey.

Sorry if I came off sounding like a know-it-all. I am just very frustrated by our generation. We have become so smart that we're dumb.

Oooookaaaay.....

1. We are not animals.
a. Cognitive reasoning
b. Speech
c. If you don't understand the other two, we build and program computers, along with bridges, skyscrapers and indoor plumbig.

2. We sin.
a. We know what is right and do wrong

3. Just because some scientist said so doesn't mean you should believe it.

Humans are animals. Highly complicated, intelligent, emotional animals. But still animals.
Cognitive reasoning is one aspect of human biology. It could also mean it makes us clever enough to cheat and get away with it.
Speech ? So we can tell each other about it?? Not sure I get the reasoning here.
Yes, modern humans build all sorts of things. It doesn't mean we've abandoned all our biological imperatives.

'Sin' is a societal construct. It's not a concept with universal understanding by the majority of modern humans. We're talking about wiring, in the sense of instinct and natural behaviour. We put societal constraints on many of our natural urges, and we constrain them, but not every human does so, and it doesn't erase those instincts from existence. Love, faithfulness and not cheating are all good things, and many humans do them very naturally. But there are still instincts in there that can push us to do otherwise.

'right and wrong' Complicated, and not a good way to ask questions about 'wiring'. See above

Scientists generally say things that have evidentiary support provided by interrogative experimentation. It doesn't make us always right, but it certainly makes us *more likely* to be right, because we have evidence for our claims. Science is still science even if you don't like the answers!

Oh, we're do I begin?

Yes, evidence. Look in the mirror. In it you will see a complex organism whose genetic code written out would fill a library. Two orbs are complex input monitors wired to a supercomputer. Open your mouth - it serves as a part of outgoing audio, and part of a nutrient intake system. It sometimes serves as part of an emergency nutrient waste outflow system. The skin on your body serves as a heating and cooling unit, an antiviral and antibiotic coating, and a receiver of sensory input.

We haven't scratched the surface of just one aspect of a human (it's flesh). We see this highly organized evidence everyday, "science" said it was coincidental.

"Science" found a few bones in the dirt. More than 250 scientific papers were written on these bones which science said was the missing link. How many PhD dissertations were written on it I'm not sure, but I think near 100. Forty years later, wha wa waaaaa....it was a hoax.

One arrowhead or clay pot can convince a scientist intelligent beings created it, but the most complicated, intelligent thing on earth - man - the same scientist thinks is coincidence. No wonder he thinks he came from a monkey.

Sorry if I came off sounding like a know-it-all. I am just very frustrated by our generation. We have become so smart that we're dumb.

Ok, I have to admit at this point that I do not have the time to devote to further intro-to-science classes - I have a job to do (as a scientist, somewhat unsurprisingly). However, I will close with this.

Evolution by natural selection is not 'a coincidence'.
Science is a process. We collect small pieces of evidence and fit them into a whole. From that we make assertions (not claims of proof) based on the weight of evidence. Science is often wrong, but by correcting and continuing to question what is currently known, it corrects itself and advances.

If you want to argue about the validity of scientific practice or knowledge, go crazy, but at least try to represent it correctly.

The Triceratops never even existed and Pluto isn't even a planet anymore?!?! Science seems like a bunch of crap to me!

"Cheating” is a moral term (at least I see it used). To “cheat” one must be in a committed relationship. Since this does not apply to “non-moral beings” (those that cannot commit themselves by moral choice to a single person) or “non-persons,” they are incapable of cheating, by definition. Certainly the scientists in this thread know that "cheating" would not apply to other animals.

"Cheating” is a moral term (at least I see it used). To “cheat” one must be in a committed relationship. Since this does not apply to “non-moral beings” (those that cannot commit themselves by moral choice to a single person) or “non-persons,” they are incapable of cheating, by definition. Certainly the scientists in this thread know that "cheating" would not apply to other animals.

Sort of depends on what the definition of "is," is.

Humans are animals. Highly complicated, intelligent, emotional animals. But still animals.
Cognitive reasoning is one aspect of human biology. It could also mean it makes us clever enough to cheat and get away with it.
Speech ? So we can tell each other about it?? Not sure I get the reasoning here.
Yes, modern humans build all sorts of things. It doesn't mean we've abandoned all our biological imperatives.

'Sin' is a societal construct. It's not a concept with universal understanding by the majority of modern humans. We're talking about wiring, in the sense of instinct and natural behaviour. We put societal constraints on many of our natural urges, and we constrain them, but not every human does so, and it doesn't erase those instincts from existence. Love, faithfulness and not cheating are all good things, and many humans do them very naturally. But there are still instincts in there that can push us to do otherwise.

Hope you don't mind, but I'm quoting this as my opinion too, since I'm nowhere near as eloquent as you.

Hope you don't mind, but I'm quoting this as my opinion too, since I'm nowhere near as eloquent as you.

Cheating is NOT natural, Kimmy. Cheating is the moral choice to betray someone with whom you are in a committed relationship. How can science even try to explain morality?

More food for thought for our evolutionary biologist: The struggle to direct or order one’s biological desires in accord with reason and moral choice/commitment is definitely a part of human experience but that does not mean we are “hard-wired” for cheating. It simply means that there is sometimes (or even oftentimes) a struggle to harmonize one’s biological tendencies with intellectual and moral choice. So, for instance, we may choose to eat something we know is not healthy for us. This doesn’t mean we are “hard-wired” for eating junk food it only means that we struggle to bring our bodily desires into harmony with rational thought.

I agree with this. I restrict my diet for two reasons: 1. ethics (strongest by far), and 2. health/fitness. I may be 'hard-wired' to eat what is tasty and satisfying to me, but resisting those foods which mess with my moral choice is stronger.

Food and sex are basic needs, so I think this analogy works.

"Cheating" is a societal construct, though. I personally do not feel it's "natural" for people to be monogamous. Besides, the term "cheating" is relative.

I guess I'm just not clear on what you're saying. My understanding is that cheating in this context is having sex outside of a committed relationship. In that context, I cannot understand how we can be "wired"to cheat because we are equal to all animals. I've never seen 2 birds get married and profess their love to one another. Being in a committed relationship is a moral choice, so to cheat is also a moral choice.

"Cheating" is a societal construct, though. I personally do not feel it's "natural" for people to be monogamous. Besides, the term "cheating" is relative.

I guess I'm just not clear on what you're saying. My understanding is that cheating in this context is having sex outside of a committed relationship. In that context, I cannot understand how we can be "wired"to cheat because we are equal to all animals. I've never seen 2 birds get married and profess their love to one another. Being in a committed relationship is a moral choice, so to cheat is also a moral choice.

I'll be completely honest--I only came into this thread to see what you were talking about. I figured it was another "LOL MEN SUCK" thing, but when I saw the more complex posts, I just decided to jump in. I'm not looking at it from a viewpoint of "cheating" as much as "sex" in general. As in...people are wired to have sex, not make a moral choice to cheat. I PERSONALLY don't feel that people are hard-wired to CHEAT in the sense that they're wired to make a decision to hurt others in that respect. More that they are wired to want to have sex with people on a basic, primal level. I also don't associate "basic primal level" as a negative thing.

Hmmm... I think cheating is a possibility in anyone not just men.

Yes. Both men and women are 'wired' to cheat. HOWEVER, it takes brains to overcome those 'animal instincts' and make a choice to cheat or not to cheat. Hence, you can gauge one's intelligence by the probability of them cheating.

Men and women who cheat are less intelligent than the ones who don't (yes I realize that this might piss a lot of people off, but it's the truth).

Watch this documentary (the whole thing)... it explains EVERYTHING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA6nBS-KHEc