Why should I go VEGAN??

See the problem is I'm an analyst by profession. See the spreadsheet won't add up. Sorry.

To make calories with a animal based diet you will get less fiber, less vitamins without a supplement. The math won't work.

Let see, if I'm consuming the same amount of plant material as you do then I'm getting the same, but I consume more calories than you and if I'm eating animal products I'm getting more vitamins and minerals. Just to clarify I'm not against a plant based diet just against the dogma and righteous attitudes that some seem to project.

So which vitamins and minerals are you getting from which beef chicken and fish?

I'm not against animal diets per se. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the math. I may not stay vegan. I'm trying to figure out if I can get the nutrients I'm getting now, stay within my net calories for my TDEE, within my activity levels, accommodate my workout regimen, my cycling and fitness goals, and my backcountry skiing schedule, at my age. 54 by the way.

I want to know what has to give to enjoy that steak I gave up. Because I'm at my calorie level. Tell me what I should cut, and what my gains are. Which vitamins and minerals will I gain by eating the meat and/or dairy?

Your the analyst you figure it out. Nutritiondata is a good place to start.

Ya did it already. The only thing I gain from animal products is protein, fat, saturated fat. I lose fiber, Vitamin A, C, iron, and calcium.

So if I'm not getting enough protein, fat, and saturated fat, I need to introduce beef chicken fish milk and cheese. Oh and cholesterol. And that gives me the added bonus of triglycerides in my lipid profile. No big deal. I can handle it.

No thanks. You go ahead.

Only fat out of shape people die of heart disease. And get diabetes. Oh and old guys and girls. Like 50 somethings like me.

You are bullet proof. You are 30 something? Forty something? Twenty something? Think about it.

Do your research. I'm not dogmatic. Not religiously preaching.

Fair enough. Just to clarify triglycerides in our lipid profile are created by consuming too many carbohydrates, not animal fat or dietary cholesterol. Reducing carbs with protein reduces trigs in the blood. Elevated triglycerides are generally a sign of a diet high in sugar and refined carbs with low HDL and normal to low LDL, which most people with MetS, diabetes, IR have.

See the problem is I'm an analyst by profession. See the spreadsheet won't add up. Sorry.

To make calories with a animal based diet you will get less fiber, less vitamins without a supplement. The math won't work.

Let see, if I'm consuming the same amount of plant material as you do then I'm getting the same, but I consume more calories than you and if I'm eating animal products I'm getting more vitamins and minerals. Just to clarify I'm not against a plant based diet just against the dogma and righteous attitudes that some seem to project.

So which vitamins and minerals are you getting from which beef chicken and fish?

I'm not against animal diets per se. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the math. I may not stay vegan. I'm trying to figure out if I can get the nutrients I'm getting now, stay within my net calories for my TDEE, within my activity levels, accommodate my workout regimen, my cycling and fitness goals, and my backcountry skiing schedule, at my age. 54 by the way.

I want to know what has to give to enjoy that steak I gave up. Because I'm at my calorie level. Tell me what I should cut, and what my gains are. Which vitamins and minerals will I gain by eating the meat and/or dairy?

Your the analyst you figure it out. Nutritiondata is a good place to start.

Ya did it already. The only thing I gain from animal products is protein, fat, saturated fat. I lose fiber, Vitamin A, C, iron, and calcium.

So if I'm not getting enough protein, fat, and saturated fat, I need to introduce beef chicken fish milk and cheese. Oh and cholesterol. And that gives me the added bonus of triglycerides in my lipid profile. No big deal. I can handle it.

No thanks. You go ahead.

Only fat out of shape people die of heart disease. And get diabetes. Oh and old guys and girls. Like 50 somethings like me.

You are bullet proof. You are 30 something? Forty something? Twenty something? Think about it.

Do your research. I'm not dogmatic. Not religiously preaching.

Fair enough. Just to clarify triglycerides in our lipid profile are created by consuming too many carbohydrates, not animal fat or dietary cholesterol. Reducing carbs with protein reduces trigs in the blood. Elevated triglycerides are generally a sign of a diet high in sugar and refined carbs with low HDL and normal to low LDL, which most people with MetS, diabetes, IR have.

You sure about that Doctor? I'll trust you then. I stand corrected.

You sure about that Doctor? I'll trust you then. I stand corrected.

It's from scientific data on lipid and cholesterol research, not any particular Dr. LOL...........the day I rely on personal opinion for any in depth nutritional information, is the day I become vegan....just kidding.

You sure about that Doctor? I'll trust you then. I stand corrected.

It's from scientific data on lipid and cholesterol research, not any particular Dr. LOL...........the day I rely on personal opinion for any in depth nutritional information, is the day I become vegan....just kidding.

Hypertriglyceridemia denotes high (hyper-) blood levels (-emia) of triglycerides, the most abundant fatty molecule in most organisms. Elevated levels of triglycerides are associated with atherosclerosis, even in the absence of hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol levels), and predispose to cardiovascular disease. Very high triglyceride levels also increase the risk of acute pancreatitis. Hypertriglyceridemia itself is usually symptomless, although high levels may be associated with skin lesions known as xanthomas.[1]
The diagnosis is made on blood tests, often performed as part of screening. Once diagnosed, other blood tests are usually required to determine whether the raised triglyceride level is caused by other underlying disorders ("secondary hypertriglyceridemia") or whether no such underlying cause exists ("primary hypertriglyceridaemia"). There is a hereditary predisposition to both primary and secondary hypertriglyceridemia.[1]
Weight loss and dietary modification may be effective in hypertriglyceridemia. The decision to treat hypertriglyceridemia with medication depends on the levels and on the presence of other risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Very high levels that would increase the risk of pancreatitis is treated with a drug from the fibrate class. Niacin and omega-3 fatty acids as well as drugs from the statin class may be used in conjunction, with statins being the main drug treatment for moderate 1hypertriglyceridemia where reduction of cardiovascular risk is required.[1]

Or magically, another way to lower triglycerides in a lipid profile is a plant based diet. Crazy right?!?

You sure about that Doctor? I'll trust you then. I stand corrected.

It's from scientific data on lipid and cholesterol research, not any particular Dr. LOL...........the day I rely on personal opinion for any in depth nutritional information, is the day I become vegan....just kidding.

Hypertriglyceridemia denotes high (hyper-) blood levels (-emia) of triglycerides, the most abundant fatty molecule in most organisms. Elevated levels of triglycerides are associated with atherosclerosis, even in the absence of hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol levels), and predispose to cardiovascular disease. Very high triglyceride levels also increase the risk of acute pancreatitis. Hypertriglyceridemia itself is usually symptomless, although high levels may be associated with skin lesions known as xanthomas.[1]
The diagnosis is made on blood tests, often performed as part of screening. Once diagnosed, other blood tests are usually required to determine whether the raised triglyceride level is caused by other underlying disorders ("secondary hypertriglyceridemia") or whether no such underlying cause exists ("primary hypertriglyceridaemia"). There is a hereditary predisposition to both primary and secondary hypertriglyceridemia.[1]
Weight loss and dietary modification may be effective in hypertriglyceridemia. The decision to treat hypertriglyceridemia with medication depends on the levels and on the presence of other risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Very high levels that would increase the risk of pancreatitis is treated with a drug from the fibrate class. Niacin and omega-3 fatty acids as well as drugs from the statin class may be used in conjunction, with statins being the main drug treatment for moderate hypertriglyceridemia where reduction of cardiovascular risk is required.[1]

Scroll down to causes.

Dude. You saw your favorite words. Carbohydrates. And then your mind closed. Good luck to you.

I was you 10 months ago. Who knew?

I get where you're coming from and I've thought about it myself.

But those vegan substitutes are so processed, I'd rather eat chicken.
Can the average person pronounce all of the ingredients in those fake meat crumbles or the fake cheese?
Some of the additives are pretty bad...

Not all vegan "subs" are processed. Raw food vegan diets are also possible.

(not that I am condoning being vegan for health reasons, but I do agree with it for moral reasons)

You sure about that Doctor? I'll trust you then. I stand corrected.

It's from scientific data on lipid and cholesterol research, not any particular Dr. LOL...........the day I rely on personal opinion for any in depth nutritional information, is the day I become vegan....just kidding.

Hypertriglyceridemia denotes high (hyper-) blood levels (-emia) of triglycerides, the most abundant fatty molecule in most organisms. Elevated levels of triglycerides are associated with atherosclerosis, even in the absence of hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol levels), and predispose to cardiovascular disease. Very high triglyceride levels also increase the risk of acute pancreatitis. Hypertriglyceridemia itself is usually symptomless, although high levels may be associated with skin lesions known as xanthomas.[1]
The diagnosis is made on blood tests, often performed as part of screening. Once diagnosed, other blood tests are usually required to determine whether the raised triglyceride level is caused by other underlying disorders ("secondary hypertriglyceridemia") or whether no such underlying cause exists ("primary hypertriglyceridaemia"). There is a hereditary predisposition to both primary and secondary hypertriglyceridemia.[1]
Weight loss and dietary modification may be effective in hypertriglyceridemia. The decision to treat hypertriglyceridemia with medication depends on the levels and on the presence of other risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Very high levels that would increase the risk of pancreatitis is treated with a drug from the fibrate class. Niacin and omega-3 fatty acids as well as drugs from the statin class may be used in conjunction, with statins being the main drug treatment for moderate hypertriglyceridemia where reduction of cardiovascular risk is required.[1]

Scroll down to causes.

Dude. You saw your favorite words. Carbohydrates. And then your mind closed. Good luck to you.

I was you 10 months ago. Who knew?

LOL, wow. In your link it says the main cause of high triglycerides in the blood is a high carb diet, but for some reason you forgot to include that in your cut and paste ......your hilarious. Typical though. Look out cholesterol is going to kill us all.......lol

What the hell are you talking about? Show me that! I love to learn.

Yeah those evil cardiologists are making up that shiz about cholesterol. There's no real causal link between cholesterol, triglyclerides and atherosclerosis. Tell that to my daughter who is a cath lab RN at Presbyterian in Albuquerque. You know what she does all day and on call weekends? She operates the tool that puts in stents and angioplasties in surgery.

If you just step back it becomes very clear what's going on in our society. My youngest daughter lives in the Dominican Republic. Just so you know, they eat quite differently there. At least the common population. And they interestingly don't have the heart disease and stroke like the U.S.

Cholesterol levels above 150 put you at risk for heart disease. If you have a total cholesterol below 150, you will NEVER get heart disease.

You sure about that Doctor? I'll trust you then. I stand corrected.

It's from scientific data on lipid and cholesterol research, not any particular Dr. LOL...........the day I rely on personal opinion for any in depth nutritional information, is the day I become vegan....just kidding.

Hypertriglyceridemia denotes high (hyper-) blood levels (-emia) of triglycerides, the most abundant fatty molecule in most organisms. Elevated levels of triglycerides are associated with atherosclerosis, even in the absence of hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol levels), and predispose to cardiovascular disease. Very high triglyceride levels also increase the risk of acute pancreatitis. Hypertriglyceridemia itself is usually symptomless, although high levels may be associated with skin lesions known as xanthomas.[1]
The diagnosis is made on blood tests, often performed as part of screening. Once diagnosed, other blood tests are usually required to determine whether the raised triglyceride level is caused by other underlying disorders ("secondary hypertriglyceridemia") or whether no such underlying cause exists ("primary hypertriglyceridaemia"). There is a hereditary predisposition to both primary and secondary hypertriglyceridemia.[1]
Weight loss and dietary modification may be effective in hypertriglyceridemia. The decision to treat hypertriglyceridemia with medication depends on the levels and on the presence of other risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Very high levels that would increase the risk of pancreatitis is treated with a drug from the fibrate class. Niacin and omega-3 fatty acids as well as drugs from the statin class may be used in conjunction, with statins being the main drug treatment for moderate 1hypertriglyceridemia where reduction of cardiovascular risk is required.[1]

Or magically, another way to lower triglycerides in a lipid profile is a plant based diet. Crazy right?!?

You really analyzed that didn't you. You deduced that because a triglyceride was a fatty acid that it was 1.) a fat 2.)therefore it must be an animal fat. That's called a logical fallacy.

Elevated triglycerides in the blood are attached to LDL cholesterol and more directly attached to low density LDL cholesterol and the reason they can, and do measure triglycerides when we get a cholesterol panel done. Low density cholesterol means that the lipoprotein that carries that LDL cholesterol to our body contains very little actual cholesterol and the main body that makes up that lipoprotein are triglycerides. The irony is that low density lipoproteins are actually 2 to 3 times bigger than a regular LDL lipoprotein and when we consume sugar and refined carbs the liver that actually produces our serum cholesterol manufactures small dense LDL preferentially. The bonus of a high refined carb diet is it reduces HDL as well. Reduce carbs we reduce trigs in the blood and one of the reasons why a low carb diet is recommended to people that have diabetes, IR, MetS etc. Any Dr. that see's high triglycerides in the blood will also see that in the majority of cases that HDL is greatly reduced, and yup refined carbs and sugar reduce HDL big time.

You sure about that Doctor? I'll trust you then. I stand corrected.

It's from scientific data on lipid and cholesterol research, not any particular Dr. LOL...........the day I rely on personal opinion for any in depth nutritional information, is the day I become vegan....just kidding.

Hypertriglyceridemia denotes high (hyper-) blood levels (-emia) of triglycerides, the most abundant fatty molecule in most organisms. Elevated levels of triglycerides are associated with atherosclerosis, even in the absence of hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol levels), and predispose to cardiovascular disease. Very high triglyceride levels also increase the risk of acute pancreatitis. Hypertriglyceridemia itself is usually symptomless, although high levels may be associated with skin lesions known as xanthomas.[1]
The diagnosis is made on blood tests, often performed as part of screening. Once diagnosed, other blood tests are usually required to determine whether the raised triglyceride level is caused by other underlying disorders ("secondary hypertriglyceridemia") or whether no such underlying cause exists ("primary hypertriglyceridaemia"). There is a hereditary predisposition to both primary and secondary hypertriglyceridemia.[1]
Weight loss and dietary modification may be effective in hypertriglyceridemia. The decision to treat hypertriglyceridemia with medication depends on the levels and on the presence of other risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Very high levels that would increase the risk of pancreatitis is treated with a drug from the fibrate class. Niacin and omega-3 fatty acids as well as drugs from the statin class may be used in conjunction, with statins being the main drug treatment for moderate 1hypertriglyceridemia where reduction of cardiovascular risk is required.[1]

Or magically, another way to lower triglycerides in a lipid profile is a plant based diet. Crazy right?!?

You really analyzed that didn't you. You deduced that because a triglyceride was a fatty acid that it was 1.) a fat 2.)therefore it must be an animal fat. That's called a logical fallacy.

Elevated triglycerides in the blood are attached to LDL cholesterol and more directly attached to low density LDL cholesterol and the reason they can, and do measure triglycerides when we get a cholesterol panel done. Low density cholesterol means that the lipoprotein that carries that LDL cholesterol to our body contains very little actual cholesterol and the main body that makes up that lipoprotein are triglycerides. The irony is that low density lipoproteins are actually 2 to 3 times bigger than a regular LDL lipoprotein and when we consume sugar and refined carbs the liver that actually produces our serum cholesterol manufactures small dense LDL preferentially. The bonus of a high refined carb diet is it reduces HDL as well. Reduce carbs we reduce trigs in the blood and one of the reasons why a low carb diet is recommended to people that have diabetes, IR, MetS etc. Any Dr. that see's high triglycerides in the blood will also see that in the majority of cases that HDL is greatly reduced, and yup refined carbs and sugar reduce HDL big time.

See you're right (not 'your' btw)... except that part about me keying in on "fatty acid"... sorry I didn't just fall off the turnip truck Junior. Carbs aren't the enemy. Sorry. The food factories that turn foods into the concentrated pleasure of flavor and energy extracted down to the essence of getting the most of that for the least amount of effort for the lowest possible price for the goal of selling the most product and taking over the Universe. You said it. Refined carbs and sugar. If you have diabetes (I assume you don't) a whole foods plant based diet will have you off all meds for the disease in SEVEN DAYS. 80 percent carb diet. 7 days. Crazy right?

Those damn evil carbs! All that plant food you claim to enjoy is mostly carbs! Oh Em Gee!

Elevated triglycerides in the blood are attached to LDL cholesterol and more directly attached to low density LDL cholesterol and the reason they can, and do measure triglycerides when we get a cholesterol panel done. Low density cholesterol means that the lipoprotein that carries that LDL cholesterol to our body contains very little actual cholesterol and the main body that makes up that lipoprotein are triglycerides. The irony is that low density lipoproteins are actually 2 to 3 times bigger than a regular LDL lipoprotein and when we consume sugar and refined carbs the liver that actually produces our serum cholesterol manufactures small dense LDL preferentially. The bonus of a high refined carb diet is it reduces HDL as well. Reduce carbs we reduce trigs in the blood and one of the reasons why a low carb diet is recommended to people that have diabetes, IR, MetS etc. Any Dr. that see's high triglycerides in the blood will also see that in the majority of cases that HDL is greatly reduced, and yup refined carbs and sugar reduce HDL big time.

See you're right (not 'your' btw)... except that part about me keying in on "fatty acid"... sorry I didn't just fall off the turnip truck Junior. Carbs aren't the enemy. Sorry. The food factories that turn foods into the concentrated pleasure of flavor and energy extracted down to the essence of getting the most of that for the least amount of effort for the lowest possible price for the goal of selling the most product and taking over the Universe. You said it. Refined carbs and sugar. If you have diabetes (I assume you don't) a whole foods plant based diet will have you off all meds for the disease in SEVEN DAYS. 80 percent carb diet. 7 days. Crazy right?

Those damn evil carbs! All that plant food you claim to enjoy is mostly carbs! Oh Em Gee!

I've never said carbs were bad, I consume lots of carbs and I guarantee more than you do, nor have I said that a plant based diet was bad, nor did I say that an omnivore diet was the only way. I"m repeating myself here, but I detest dogma and blind faith based in biased literature.......try reading something other than vegworld etc, maybe you'll learn something. Hey, I'm older than you by the way.

I enjoy my veggie diet, I'm not vegan yet. It's still new to me. I also saw forks over knives, food inc. and read the china study. I try to keep my mind open, I love to learn. I found the information quite compelling and unbiased. I'm not about to jump on the plant based wagon and preach its not who I am.
I like the idea that I'm not consuming factory farmed meat. I like that I've lost 15lbs since becoming vegetarian, I'm realistic that I would have to work harder to get a ripped muscle body, but I'm clear that depending on how much I want anything I will do what it takes.
I get confused with people who say they only eat a little meat and mostly veggie. Not people who know what they are doing and have a reason for it but just people that want to associate with vegetarianism but still consume meat. If you like the membership then become one of us!! (One of us one of us!) lol. A lot of people have asked me why i chose to stop eating meat and I'm still not sure of my answers. I somehow feel embarrassed in front of omnivores that my feelings towards loving animals are unmanly. But I think there are different types of humans around the world. I for one couldn't kill an animal and eat it, even when I was consuming meat I didn't make the connection not clearly anyways. On the other hand I could gather fruits nuts seeds and veg till the cows come home.
I think my answer towards the OP question. Why should I go Vegan?
Well my answer is because its possible and I actually think personally its probably an even better way to live than we do now. I try not to sound to weird here but the big picture that we can't see that's wider than anyone can really grasp is quite disturbing. You'd have to really go behind the scenes. The world isn't perfect, but so many lies and much deceit hide behind the veil of 'normality' disease is huge, medicine is huge, vaccinations are mandatory, people that recommend what we should eat are subsidised by the companies that provide food, adverts can display no fat per minuscule serving when they do contain fat , adverts perpetuate half truths to promote products with 'new found science' that no one really needs, that fact that diabetes (in some people I can't say everyone) can be controlled by diet alone is not publicly promoted, red meat it finally being linked to cancer so that's kinda good I guess but still people say that a little is fine you know, just like smoking, a little bits fine, similar to strychnine, there is a dose small enough to take that wont kill you so why not try that?
Right I realise I'm ranting but my point is. No one really know who to believe, experts aren't the be all and end all. They've just done a lot of studying in their field. They don't know all they need to know, they just know all there currently is to know. Taking it back to veganism. Eating this way will help you bypass all the crap that you see on TV read online and hear about from pseudo celebrities. The one and only thing I trust when I'm looking at what foods to eat is how I feel. I feel great eating like this, I find it easy to eat like this, I'm exercising more than I ever used to without complaint and I'm pleased with my inner self that I'm not consciously eating animals. That makes me feel good, not morally superior just good inside. My mum says god put animals on earth to provide food for her, I disagree and am an atheist but I still love my mum. Where is this all going?
Try veganism or just try vegetarianism, if you don't like it then do what feels right, I still believe (personally) that its the correct diet and we don't need meat or dairy or eggs. I still eat products that contain eggs because it is the food I was brought up on and I'm used to it. I could change but I haven't made that commitment yet.
If you're still reading then thanks. Give it a try.....or don't you know, it's only an Internet forum :-D

Health problems are caused by bad diet, ie processed stuff, too much sugar and so on, not meat, unless you are eating crazy amounts of it.

As for animals and ethics and morals, that's an artificial thing we have created. Nature does not have ethics and morals, that's why lions eat gazelles instead of grazing the plains. No doubt like most ppl you hate seeing the lion catch a gazelle on nature programmes but if it didn't catch it the lion would die.

Humans are meant to eat a mixture of vegetable and animal matter. Not eating meat is a bad idea health wise, just as not eating veg is. You can try and replace it with processed proteins but that's not the same, just as multivitamin tablets are not the same as veg etc.


You can be vegan (or whatever) you like as it's your life and you are free to do as you please.
However don't make out it's anything but an ethical choice. It is NOT a health choice.
And while you're free to do as you please with your own body please don't force this restricted diet on your kids. Let them make their own choice, which doesn't mean just brainwash them by giving your view only. Show them the alleged pros and cons of both and let them choose freely.

Health problems are caused by bad diet, ie processed stuff, too much sugar and so on, not meat, unless you are eating crazy amounts of it.

As for animals and ethics and morals, that's an artificial thing we have created. Nature does not have ethics and morals, that's why lions eat gazelles instead of grazing the plains. No doubt like most ppl you hate seeing the lion catch a gazelle on nature programmes but if it didn't catch it the lion would die.

Humans are meant to eat a mixture of vegetable and animal matter. Not eating meat is a bad idea health wise, just as not eating veg is. You can try and replace it with processed proteins but that's not the same, just as multivitamin tablets are not the same as veg etc.


You can be vegan (or whatever) you like as it's your life and you are free to do as you please.
However don't make out it's anything but an ethical choice. It is NOT a health choice.
And while you're free to do as you please with your own body please don't force this restricted diet on your kids. Let them make their own choice, which doesn't mean just brainwash them by giving your view only. Show them the alleged pros and cons of both and let them choose freely.

Don't worry everybody, this guys just cleared it all up, no need for any more information then I guess.
*facepalm*

Sorry I don't accept your propaganda that is putting other people's health at risk.
Sorry I don't read the latest "science" on the benefits of being a vegan.
Sorry for seeing all the posts from people trying to be fashionably vegan who are wondering how to get their daily dose if protein and iron without limiting themselves to 1 plant every day.
Sorry I believe that natures way is the right way.

We are human and therefore special and the rules don't apply to us.

You are correct. We must bury chickens eggs in a meaningful ceremony and scatter cows milk over the fields.

What do you want me to tell you??!

Your "information" is not information.
It's selective, propaganda and has a moral and ethical agenda.

It is not about health and is no more ok of an agenda to push then for me to suggest you eat meat only and take a multi vit.

If you can't see that I can't help you.

I like to eat meat, eggs, & dairy so I could never go vegan.

I also beleive in the food chain, if chickens weren't meant to be eaten they would have evolved a defense mechanism to prevent it, like being poisonous or revolting but they aren't & they taste nice.

Each to their own I say but if you choose not to eat animal products then don't go preaching to those who do & vice versa.