Protein?? How do I eat less of it

Just eat your food and stop worring about "starches or fats"

weight loss is about calories nothing else.

Protein consumption is overrated. Ask any vegan bodybuilders (cough cough).

If you eat normally, you will get what you need, if you don't your body will make sure whatever you get in is optimized. People keep on saying "you need protein for your muscles blah blah blah" Yet they don't know carbs are more muscle sparing than protein.

So, I personally do not know of any vegan builders but there are some...But I just went through my vegetarian lifter friends diary she eats significantly more protein then me that is higher then the recommendation. And then I checked my non lifting vegan friends diary and she also eats more then the recommendation. There was also a vegan guy who stopped by my parents house who is big on protein...it solved allot of his health problems.

Also, all studies I have ever read comparing a high protein diet to any other seems to indicate that you retain more muscle with a high protein diet. I've yet to see one that shows increasing any of the other macro-nutrients retains muscle any better.

Steroids and muscle growth

There was a steroid study that contained 43 men who were experienced weight lifters. There were 4 groups in the study.
* Group 1: NO EXERCISE + NO STERIODS
* Group 2: EXERCISE + NO STERIODS
* Group 3: NO EXERCISE + WEEKLY STEROID INJECTION
* Group 4: EXERCISE + WEEKLY STEROID INJECTION.

Each member of this study consumed roughly 120g of protein (which is on the lower side of current recommendations) and about 16calories per pound of bodyweight.

Group 1: no gain in LBM
Group 2: gained 4.5lbs
Group 3: gained more than group 1
Group 4: gained over 13lbs of LBM

120g of protein was sufficient protein to be able to build up to 13lbs of LBM.
[Bhasin S, 1996].

Lacto-ovo vegeterians

Lacto-ovo vegeterians(I’ll just call them veggie’s for short) Consume about 79g of protein and about 450 calories less than non-vegetarians. Non veggie’s consume about 138g of protein on a daily basis. Both groups in this study gained between 2-5lbs of LBM. The point of this study is to show once you meet the minimum requirements you don’t need more protein. Remember 5lbs of LBM is what can be gained with a good resistance plan. In this study both groups came close to average results, even the veggies who ate very low amounts of protein.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14600563

Renal Disease

People with renal disease must consume low amounts of protein to delay their disease. They must under 0.3g of protein per pound of body weight. A man of 160lbs would consume 48g of protein. Their disease is highly catabolic(breaks down their muscles). One group lifted weights while the other group did not. Even with ridiculous low amount of protein the group that lifted weights had a slight increase of LBM. The group who didn’t do any resistance training? They lost 7lbs of LBM. This shows how powerful resistance training can be.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11730397

Excessive calories

In this study both groups consumed 2010 calories in addition to their normal daily intake. Group 1 also consumed an additional 106g of protein and group 2 consumed only an extra 24g of protein. The results are group 1 gained 6lbs of lBM and group 2 gained 7.5lbs while consuming roughly 120g of protein total. Yes the LOWER protein group gained LBM than the higher protein group.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11591884


I think there is 10 studies all together.

• Tarnopolsky et al. (1992) observed no differences in whole body protein synthesis or indexes of lean body mass in strength athletes consuming either 0.64g/lb or 1.10g/lb over a 2 week period. Protein oxidation did increase in the high protein group, indicating a nutrient overload.
• Walberg et al. (1988) found that 0.73g/lb was sufficient to maintain positive nitrogen balance in cutting weightlifters over a 7 day time period.
• Tarnopolsky et al. (1988) found that only 0.37g/lb was required to maintain positive nitrogen balance in elite bodybuilders (over 5 years of experience, possible previous use of androgens) over a 10 day period. 0.45g/lb was sufficient to maintain lean body mass in bodybuilders over a 2 week period. The authors suggested that 0.55g/lb was sufficient for bodybuilders.
• Lemon et al. (1992) found no differences in muscle mass or strength gains in novice bodybuilders consuming either 0.61g/lb or 1.19g/lb over a 4 week period. Based on nitrogen balance data, the authors recommended 0.75g/lb.
• Hoffman et al. (2006) found no differences in body composition, strength or resting hormonal concentrations in strength athletes consuming either 0.77g/lb or >0.91g/lb over a 3 month period.

LOL this again? The last time I seen you post this people argued with you for 6 pages and noted you had incorrect info from the beginning, changed it again (group info), got the results wrong, and others also noted info was left out (they were also taking creatine) and Acg67 kept telling you why you were incorrect over everything you said. If anyone wants to discuss it they should check out the thread you posted it in:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787083-muscle-growth-protein-recommendations-highly-over-rated

Given that those intelligent scientific minded people I know read it still agree the protein recommendations are low, I'm not going to read all that all over again. Not to mention since I upped my protein my nails and hair got nicer

Or we can check the thread when i proved both of them wrong, I don't remember the title of it though. We had a debate about this again. If you want to take the alan aragon approach, he recommends things by a dexa scan which is flawed. So that blows that out of the water.

What makes one person study more credible than another? You can't pick favorites in science.

I also offer this question to anyone who is talking about higher protein intake. Are they talking from education or experience? I am speaking from both.

I wouldn't call them scientifically minded. I would call it pick a favorite guru and parrot him.

Just eat your food and stop worring about "starches or fats"

weight loss is about calories nothing else.

Protein consumption is overrated. Ask any vegan bodybuilders (cough cough).

If you eat normally, you will get what you need, if you don't your body will make sure whatever you get in is optimized. People keep on saying "you need protein for your muscles blah blah blah" Yet they don't know carbs are more muscle sparing than protein.

So, I personally do not know of any vegan builders but there are some...But I just went through my vegetarian lifter friends diary she eats significantly more protein then me that is higher then the recommendation. And then I checked my non lifting vegan friends diary and she also eats more then the recommendation. There was also a vegan guy who stopped by my parents house who is big on protein...it solved allot of his health problems.

Also, all studies I have ever read comparing a high protein diet to any other seems to indicate that you retain more muscle with a high protein diet. I've yet to see one that shows increasing any of the other macro-nutrients retains muscle any better.

Steroids and muscle growth

There was a steroid study that contained 43 men who were experienced weight lifters. There were 4 groups in the study.
* Group 1: NO EXERCISE + NO STERIODS
* Group 2: EXERCISE + NO STERIODS
* Group 3: NO EXERCISE + WEEKLY STEROID INJECTION
* Group 4: EXERCISE + WEEKLY STEROID INJECTION.

Each member of this study consumed roughly 120g of protein (which is on the lower side of current recommendations) and about 16calories per pound of bodyweight.

Group 1: no gain in LBM
Group 2: gained 4.5lbs
Group 3: gained more than group 1
Group 4: gained over 13lbs of LBM

120g of protein was sufficient protein to be able to build up to 13lbs of LBM.
[Bhasin S, 1996].

Lacto-ovo vegeterians

Lacto-ovo vegeterians(I’ll just call them veggie’s for short) Consume about 79g of protein and about 450 calories less than non-vegetarians. Non veggie’s consume about 138g of protein on a daily basis. Both groups in this study gained between 2-5lbs of LBM. The point of this study is to show once you meet the minimum requirements you don’t need more protein. Remember 5lbs of LBM is what can be gained with a good resistance plan. In this study both groups came close to average results, even the veggies who ate very low amounts of protein.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14600563

Renal Disease

People with renal disease must consume low amounts of protein to delay their disease. They must under 0.3g of protein per pound of body weight. A man of 160lbs would consume 48g of protein. Their disease is highly catabolic(breaks down their muscles). One group lifted weights while the other group did not. Even with ridiculous low amount of protein the group that lifted weights had a slight increase of LBM. The group who didn’t do any resistance training? They lost 7lbs of LBM. This shows how powerful resistance training can be.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11730397

Excessive calories

In this study both groups consumed 2010 calories in addition to their normal daily intake. Group 1 also consumed an additional 106g of protein and group 2 consumed only an extra 24g of protein. The results are group 1 gained 6lbs of lBM and group 2 gained 7.5lbs while consuming roughly 120g of protein total. Yes the LOWER protein group gained LBM than the higher protein group.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11591884


I think there is 10 studies all together.

• Tarnopolsky et al. (1992) observed no differences in whole body protein synthesis or indexes of lean body mass in strength athletes consuming either 0.64g/lb or 1.10g/lb over a 2 week period. Protein oxidation did increase in the high protein group, indicating a nutrient overload.
• Walberg et al. (1988) found that 0.73g/lb was sufficient to maintain positive nitrogen balance in cutting weightlifters over a 7 day time period.
• Tarnopolsky et al. (1988) found that only 0.37g/lb was required to maintain positive nitrogen balance in elite bodybuilders (over 5 years of experience, possible previous use of androgens) over a 10 day period. 0.45g/lb was sufficient to maintain lean body mass in bodybuilders over a 2 week period. The authors suggested that 0.55g/lb was sufficient for bodybuilders.
• Lemon et al. (1992) found no differences in muscle mass or strength gains in novice bodybuilders consuming either 0.61g/lb or 1.19g/lb over a 4 week period. Based on nitrogen balance data, the authors recommended 0.75g/lb.
• Hoffman et al. (2006) found no differences in body composition, strength or resting hormonal concentrations in strength athletes consuming either 0.77g/lb or >0.91g/lb over a 3 month period.

LOL this again? The last time I seen you post this people argued with you for 6 pages and noted you had incorrect info from the beginning, changed it again (group info), got the results wrong, and others also noted info was left out (they were also taking creatine) and Acg67 kept telling you why you were incorrect over everything you said. If anyone wants to discuss it they should check out the thread you posted it in:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787083-muscle-growth-protein-recommendations-highly-over-rated

Given that those intelligent scientific minded people I know read it still agree the protein recommendations are low, I'm not going to read all that all over again. Not to mention since I upped my protein my nails and hair got nicer

Or we can check the thread when i proved both of them wrong, I don't remember the title of it though. We had a debate about this again. If you want to take the alan aragon approach, he recommends things by a dexa scan which is flawed. So that blows that out of the water.

What makes one person study more credible than another? You can't pick favorites in science.

I also offer this question to anyone who is talking about higher protein intake. Are they talking from education or experience? I am speaking from both.

I wouldn't call them scientifically minded. I would call it pick a favorite guru and parrot him.

Legit request - could you see if you can find that post where you apparently proved everyone wrong. I would love to read it.

You and sidesteel where in it, our last debate, i don't remember the topic, if you do please go get it.

LOL this again? The last time I seen you post this people argued with you for 6 pages and noted you had incorrect info from the beginning, changed it again (group info), got the results wrong, and others also noted info was left out (they were also taking creatine) and Acg67 kept telling you why you were incorrect over everything you said. If anyone wants to discuss it they should check out the thread you posted it in:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787083-muscle-growth-protein-recommendations-highly-over-rated

Given that those intelligent scientific minded people I know read it still agree the protein recommendations are low, I'm not going to read all that all over again. Not to mention since I upped my protein my nails and hair got nicer

Just ignore him, he's MFP's anti-protein troll. The worst part is, even if he was right, he's got no point. If we pretend he's right, and you don't REQUIRE lots of protein to build or maintain muscle, having MORE than the recommended amount is not detrimental. All of the studies that show that a high protein diet will build more muscle, make better gains in the gym, maintain LBM better, etc will even concede that if you eat more than their recommended amount, there are diminishing returns but THERE ARE STILL RETURNS WITH NO NEGATIVES. Read carefully: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129150/ (most recommendations were in the 1.2g-2.2g per kg of body mass, I believe averaging out to 1.8g/kg)

Long story short, there is no downside to eating lots of protein, barring a rare medical condition. I repeat, there is no reason NOT to consume lots of protein. I recommend at least 1g per lb of lean body mass, personally. Even if you never go in the gym a day in your life, at the bare minimum it will help with satiety which can be PARAMOUNT to most people adhering to their diet.

1.4-2g of protein per kg of bodyweight is beneficial for individuals engaged in intense exercise:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20048505
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19278045
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17908291
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18500966

2-3g/kg is beneficial for athletes:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14971434

Older subjects lost lean mass getting the RDA protein recommendations (.8g/kg):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11382798

Double the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/495538
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16046715

Triple the RDA outperformed the RDA for individuals in a calorie deficit: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027

Subjects with a 1.5g/kg protein intake lost fat and gained lean mass:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10838463

Of people that don't exercise, high protien intake causes less lean-mass loss:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17299116

Oh here is some really really basic physiology for you guys.

When we lift the energy comes from glucose, this is what produces the ATP for our lifting. Once we're done, we recover wit glucose. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHERE IS THE PROTEIN???!?!?!?! (cough cough)

If you are avoiding sugar don't eat too much protein as it does turn to glucose in your blood. I know not many folks here are doing "low carb" but if you are, you shouldn't avoid good fats. You can get energy from fat vs carbs. Not sure that makes any sense...I have to watch and not go over on my protein.

If you are avoiding sugar don't eat too much protein as it does turn to glucose in your blood. I know not many folks here are doing "low carb" but if you are, you shouldn't avoid good fats. You can get energy from fat vs carbs. Not sure that makes any sense...I have to watch and not go over on my protein.

Protein never turns to glucose, carbs become glucose. That is a medical fact!

read more carefully we're not talking about gluconeogenesis, read more carefully next time. (Even the gluconeogenesis theory is being challenged just so you're update on research)

Why people with low glycogen levels suffer wit performance, you thik they can build muscle with crappy performance. think about that one.

You have never proved yourself right in any protein debate with me and/or SideSteel so I have no idea what you are talking about - a link would be good.

With you I asked you if you are speaking from experience or education. You said something like you'd never lower your protein intake. Implying you're only speaking from education.

There is 2 parts to knowledge education and experience. Remember the eat 6x a day thing. People would do it all the time. They did it out of "education" someone told them to do so. Then probably a few guys stopped and said "wow that was a big load of crap."

I have lowered protein without any issues at all.

Please stop changing the subject - what thread were you referring to and what does my comment that I probably did make have to do with the topic at hand...you 'proving' you were right?.

And you should know as well as anyone your assertions in a non -controlled study are meaningless.

Here is food for thought, nothing in science is controlled. I told you I don't remember the name of the topic, i asked you what was the last topic we debated on???

read more carefully we're not talking about gluconeogenesis, read more carefully next time. (Even the gluconeogenesis theory is being challenged just so you're update on research)

Why people with low glycogen levels suffer wit performance, you thik they can build muscle with crappy performance. think about that one.

This doesn't even make any sense. You don't know anything about human metabolism, biochemistry, metabolic pathways, or nitrogen balance.

Talk is cheap, all you say "that dosn't make sense" anyone can say that... Prove it..