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A Calorie is a Caloire is a...... let's compare...

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  • Posts: 10,161 Member
    micro-nutrients or lack their of...

    because you know things like sugar, fiber, minerals etc. don't affect the body at all.

    Sugar and fiber are both macronutrients. Minerals are micros. Any kind of mineral deficiency is rather rare in western diets.. and minerals are typically something you really don't want to get too much of. There's a reason men's multivitamins don't have iron while women's do, for instance.
  • Posts: 12,589 Member

    what the **** do you do to work out!? 6,000 cal today???

    Today was high, a cheat day :wink: Hey, when your maintenance is 4100...your cheat's gonna' be real high.
  • Posts: 10,161 Member
    If I could maintain on 4000 calories I never would have gotten fat.
  • Posts: 12,589 Member
    If I could maintain on 4000 calories I never would have gotten fat.

    Difference now is that I exercise daily and make sure I hit my goals. Consciously change my intake if I don't. Versus...not tracking anything in the past.
  • Posts: 120 Member
    For those interested in the underlying science here is a reposting that covers the basics.
    Here is a bit more detailed answer for those who would like to learn a bit of biology and dietary labeling. The answer is 'No' and 'Yes'. Every calorie is not actually the same when it comes to the actual science, but this has been largely corrected for on food labels and so for the purpose of dieting you usually don't need to worry. Ironically, the example using almonds is one case where this is NOT true and where a 'calorie is not a calorie'.

    Calories, as noted above, are a unit of measure describing heat energy released during a chemical reaction. For organic compounds the reaction that matters is oxidation, which can be measured by combustion, even though oxidation in our bodies does not occur by combustion (lucky for us) but via more controlled chemical reactions, referred to in total as our 'metabolism'. Still, combustion is a handy estimator because both combustion and our metabolism use oxygen (O2) to break the carbon bonds in organic compounds and release energy and carbon dioxide (CO2) as a byproduct.

    As it turns out, its not hard to prove that not all calories are created equal, especially with respect to our metabolism. The easiest example of this is the cellulose and lignin that occurs in plant material. Cellulose is actually just a long chain of sugars, but we don't have the chemical machinery in our bodies to break those long chains of sugars into ones we can use so for the most part it passes through our bodies undigested. You know and love this cellulose as part of your dietary 'fiber'. Now here's thing, there is a ton of carbon-bond energy in that cellulose and if you combust it, as you do when you burn wood or paper, it gives off a lot of calories for its mass (it is energy dense). Nonetheless, we can't eat wood or grass and access those cellulose calories (Animals like cows use microbes in their digestive tracts to do the conversions for them).

    Also, it is very easy to show that our digestion is not anywhere near as efficient as combustion (as occurs in a bomb calorimeter, the simplest tool to measure calories). We come close with some simple sugars, like glucose, that are absorbed easily and used/stored efficiently by our cells but don't do anywhere near as good with absorbing or metabolizing most proteins. Things get even more complicated when you start working with the reality that foods are complex mixtures of different compounds and those mixtures can interact in funny ways. For example, adding fiber to most diets decreases the efficiency of absorbing other dietary components.

    So, no, not every calorie is the same, but this was recognized long ago by people like Wilbur Atwater, who then attempted to work out some conversions between caloric values obtained from combustion and what we humans can actually absorb, convert and assimilate. Atwater gave us the rule of thumb conversions that go into most dietary labels, like 4 calories per gram for proteins and carbs and 9 per gram for fats. For most foods, these conversions come close enough for our needs and so for the most part its not worth losing much sleep over whether to eat one food or another.

    Ironically, the example of almonds is one case where, at the moment, a 'calorie is not a calorie'. In 2012, a study by Novotny found that the energy we get from almonds is about 1/3 less than what is reported based on the Atwater values that go into nutrition labels. This is just an example of the challenge of estimating human-specific caloric values. Maybe food labels will be corrected...we'll see.
  • Posts: 2,219 Member

    Care to state your source for this statement? LOL It's completely ridiculous!
  • Posts: 49,032 Member

    I'm not sure what we're debating here. I agree 100%.
    Btw, I don't eat 2500 calls. I'm small. But I DO understand his need for that.
    I'm sorry I thought you were stating that 10,000 calories is achievable to consume with just clean food and not feeling full all the time or having bowel issues from too much good fats.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • Posts: 10,161 Member

    Care to state your source for this statement? LOL It's completely ridiculous!

    Which statement? That mineral deficiency is rare, or that there's a reason men's multivitamins don't have iron?
  • Posts: 2,219 Member

    Which statement? That mineral deficiency is rare, or that there's a reason men's multivitamins don't have iron?

    That mineral deficiency is rare in western diets. There are MANY people who are deficient in magnesium which is pretty important, I'm sure there are many others too. I'll try and source that while you source how rare deficiency is.
  • Posts: 10,161 Member

    That mineral deficiency is rare in western diets. There are MANY people who are deficient in magnesium which is pretty important, I'm sure there are many others too. I'll try and source that while you source how rare deficiency is.

    I've literally never heard of anyone actually having a magnesium deficiency. I'm sure a lot of people are, but I can't imagine it's that common. I think you'd need a kind of strange diet for that to happen. Doesn't sound like anything a multivitamin wouldn't solve anyway.
  • BURRITO!!!
  • Love that comparison and statement.
  • Posts: 2,219 Member

    I've literally never heard of anyone actually having a magnesium deficiency. I'm sure a lot of people are, but I can't imagine it's that common. I think you'd need a kind of strange diet for that to happen. Doesn't sound like anything a multivitamin wouldn't solve anyway.

    Magnesium deficiency is alive and well in the western world. Here are a few articles. I first learned about magnesium at the Whole Life Expo in Toronto when Dr. Carolyn Dean, author of "the Magnesium Miracle" spoke about it. Interesting reading.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/023199_magnesium_food_medicine.html

    http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/magnesium-mineral-deficiency

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/magnesium-the-most-powerf_b_425499.html

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/sep2005_awsi_01.htm
  • Posts: 10,161 Member

    Magnesium deficiency is alive and well in the western world. Here are a few articles. I first learned about magnesium at the Whole Life Expo in Toronto when Dr. Carolyn Dean, author of "the Magnesium Miracle" spoke about it. Interesting reading.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/023199_magnesium_food_medicine.html

    http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/magnesium-mineral-deficiency

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/magnesium-the-most-powerf_b_425499.html

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/sep2005_awsi_01.htm

    Not a single one of those links even attempts to provide any data on how common actual magnesium deficiency is. Maybe it's common, I dunno.
  • Posts: 2,219 Member
    Okay, if it's dry reading you want, it's dry reading you shall have lol

    http://web.mit.edu/london/www/magnesium.html
  • Posts: 2,219 Member
    I think this blurb in particular might interest the low carbers of the forum

    "Not only that, but magnesium also affects carbohydrate metabolism in a different manner, as a magnesium deficiency appears to create resistance to insulin, Insulin resistance increases levels of insulin, which may result in a form of diabetes. Additionally, insulin resistance by itself can distrupt intracellular magnesium levels, as the following web page explains.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8861135&dopt=Abstract"
  • Posts: 10,161 Member
    Okay, if it's dry reading you want, it's dry reading you shall have lol

    http://web.mit.edu/london/www/magnesium.html

    That's a lot of studies, some of which look interesting and I'll review. But not a single one of them actually gives data on the prevalence of magnesium deficiency, which is kind of astonishing. I can't find any actual data on it either.
  • Posts: 381 Member
    The first meal is probably better for you, but I would take the burrito all day long :)
  • Posts: 2,219 Member

    That's a lot of studies, some of which look interesting and I'll review. But not a single one of them actually gives data on the prevalence of magnesium deficiency, which is kind of astonishing. I can't find any actual data on it either.

    The article does specify that it is "very common" in the us, but I don't see the actual numbers either. Maybe everyone is wrong? What do they know over at MIT anyways those cocky *kitten*! Enjoy the studies!

    I'm off to have an epsom salt bath, get some magnesium in me :p
  • Posts: 10,268 Member

    That's a lot of studies, some of which look interesting and I'll review. But not a single one of them actually gives data on the prevalence of magnesium deficiency, which is kind of astonishing. I can't find any actual data on it either.
    Here you go.

    http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=15672
  • Posts: 10,161 Member
    Intake doesn't necessarily imply deficiency.
  • Posts: 3,348 Member
    and yet even he says you shouldn't do it. :wink:
    But for lack of evidence - which is a lot better reason than so many say we SHOULD do things ;).
  • Posts: 3,949 Member

    Difference now is that I exercise daily and make sure I hit my goals. Consciously change my intake if I don't. Versus...not tracking anything in the past.

    Maintain at 4k? Are you andre the giant?
  • Posts: 2,219 Member
    Intake doesn't necessarily imply deficiency.

    I digress. I'm still waiting on your references. You made some bold statements earlier about it not being good to get too many minerals and deficiency being rare. How did you come to such conclusions?
  • Posts: 12,589 Member

    Maintain at 4k? Are you andre the giant?

    5'10" 190. Heavy cardio 3 days / week, lift heavy 3 days / week. Scale doesn't move at 4k. *shrug*

    Edited to add: " Anybody want a peanut?!" & "I'm on the brute squad."
  • For the sake of trying to eat as healthy as possible and only eating what my body can efficiently use as fuel I would pick the salmon (although I don't know what quinoa is?) I am trying to avoid dairy, enriched flour and grease so the burrito is out of the question.
  • Posts: 1,165 Member

    5'10" 190. Heavy cardio 3 days / week, lift heavy 3 days / week. Scale doesn't move at 4k. *shrug*

    Edited to add: " Anybody want a peanut?!" & "I'm on the brute squad."
    You are the brute squad!
  • Posts: 12,589 Member
    I AM the brute squad!

    Actually:

    Miracle Max: Go away or I'll call the Brute Squad.
    Fezzik: I'm on the Brute Squad.
    Miracle Max: [sees Fezzik] You *are* the Brute Squad!

    Best. Movie. Ever.
  • Posts: 1,165 Member

    Actually:

    Miracle Max: Go away or I'll call the Brute Squad.
    Fezzik: I'm on the Brute Squad.
    Miracle Max: [sees Fezzik] You *are* the Brute Squad!

    Best. Movie. Ever.
    lol, yeah.. I fixed it, but you were too fast.
    Clearly, I need to watch it again soon... It's been far too long. Unfortunately, the wifey doesn't like it... I married her anyway for an assortment of other reasons.
  • Posts: 12,589 Member
    lol, yeah.. I fixed it, but you were too fast.
    Clearly, I need to watch it again soon... It's been far too long. Unfortunately, the wifey doesn't like it... I married her anyway for an assortment of other reasons.

    Pfffft. Better be some pretty damn good reasons! :wink:

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