Scratches head and thinks WTF...

Well me, I'm one animal that cares...I'm not a preachy vegan/judgmental lentil. Not going in for the great vegan/omnivore debate, thanks but no thanks.

I would respectfully suggest that until you your self have been horribly tortured and then killed by another entity, you don't have enough experience to know if during this rather stressful act you would actually care what said entity was.

I suspect my feelings at the time would be "just make it stop".

Oh and yes, vegetarians make me "Scratches head and thinks WTF" .

Yes I imagine thoughts like "*kitten* let it stop" and "Nooo" would most probably be going through my mind. But to suggest that any animal other than humans would keep you caged,force-fed god knows what to make you grow at an accelerated rate for larger yield, tortured to a degree for the whole of your life than killed unnecessarily seems pretty unlikely and considering the geography of where I live the most probable thing to kill me as far as animals go is a human...maybe a shark when I swim in the ocean but I doubt it.

Don't get off the soap box, was just about to join you! ;-)

The last bit is exactly the point that makes no sense to the logical human brain - why grow food to feed animals to feed us? Why not just grow food?

You can store more energy in a cow than you could grow in the square footage it takes up.

And beef tastes better than lettuce.

how many people could you feed instead of feeding the cow? how much grain and water goes into one cow. its not about the land dude.

"If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million," David Pimentel, professor of ecology in Cornell University's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, reported at the July 24-26 meeting of the Canadian Society of Animal Science in Montreal. Or, if those grains were exported, it would boost the U.S. trade balance by $80 billion a year, Pimentel estimated.

With only grass-fed livestock, individual Americans would still get more than the recommended daily allowance (RDA) of meat and dairy protein, according to Pimentel's report, "Livestock Production: Energy Inputs and the Environment."

so yah, your logic level: flawed.

Having grown up with a family that raised cows, goats, chickens, rabbits, turkeys, pigs......

All animals "eat" more over the course of their lives before slaughter than they "give" once slaughtered. However, I don't buy this notion that the same items that are farmed on the lands that feed those animals would feed others...most of what we bought to feed them was not for human consumption.

Now could the land be re-purposed that the farmer that grows "feed" crops uses? I'm sure it can.

I'm more concerned with genetically modified seeds/plants, than I am with industry raised beef. When farmers have to buy seeds that are modified to allow a single season of growth, without the ability to cultivate the seeds themselves, it leads me to believe we are pushing crop production down the wrong road.

How much "crop" was destroyed to create "ethanol", who could that have "fed"? The cold hard truth is we as a society are not worried about "feeding" others, simply what makes monetary sense to us.

The cold hard truth is we as a society are not worried about "feeding" others, simply what makes monetary sense to us.

stone cold truth. amen brother.

I came here looking for lulz and found only arguments over vegetarianism. I haz a sad.

Drink a protein drink right after weight training.

Sure, you don't NEED to, but the evidence suggests you'll get best results if you do.

It's like doing your shopping and realising you've got a coupon for another item free sat in your wallet - you could spend a little time extra and get a bit back in return, or you could leave it and not have got quite as good a deal.

You might not particularly lose out if you don't dig it out, but if you do you can get that little bit more out of the time spent on your shopping trip.

I'm more concerned with genetically modified seeds/plants, than I am with industry raised beef. When farmers have to buy seeds that are modified to allow a single season of growth, without the ability to cultivate the seeds themselves, it leads me to believe we are pushing crop production down the wrong road.

How much "crop" was destroyed to create "ethanol", who could that have "fed"? The cold hard truth is we as a society are not worried about "feeding" others, simply what makes monetary sense to us.

This is all I have to say on this subject ^^. We were looking for weed killers the other day and I saw the Monsato Company logo and I know that they produce genetically modified seeds that are resistant to their weed killer and have to be re-purchased yearly by farmers. I don't care how good their product is... I'm not buying Round-Up or anything that proudly has their label.

You can't tell me that GMO's are "guaranteed" safe because we haven't done enough research on long-term effects and you can't tell me that it makes sense to nickel and dime farmers on their livelihood.

I'm not perfect, and I am poor so I have some trouble affording organic and locally raised food, but I just think we're doing it wrong as a society.

I'm more concerned with genetically modified seeds/plants, than I am with industry raised beef. When farmers have to buy seeds that are modified to allow a single season of growth, without the ability to cultivate the seeds themselves, it leads me to believe we are pushing crop production down the wrong road.

How much "crop" was destroyed to create "ethanol", who could that have "fed"? The cold hard truth is we as a society are not worried about "feeding" others, simply what makes monetary sense to us.

This is all I have to say on this subject ^^. We were looking for weed killers the other day and I saw the Monsato Company logo and I know that they produce genetically modified seeds that are resistant to their weed killer and have to be re-purchased yearly by farmers. I don't care how good their product is... I'm not buying Round-Up or anything that proudly has their label.

You can't tell me that GMO's are "guaranteed" safe because we haven't done enough research on long-term effects and you can't tell me that it makes sense to nickel and dime farmers on their livelihood.

I'm not perfect, and I am poor so I have some trouble affording organic and locally raised food, but I just think we're doing it wrong as a society.

i have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. are you interested?

This thread quickly went to ****.

wait... what.. you're gaining? you need to eat more.... WTF?

This is the one that kills me. I get the eye rolling thing going on at this point. Energy balance and whatnot. Someone creating their own energy out of nothing seems pretty incredible.

I've reached the point of



with that one. like... oh, your gaining weight, must be that caloric deficit. how the frick is that possible. either there is no deficit, infact a surplus, or you have health problems.

I don't see how that works.

The deeper the deficit, the more likely you are to be malnourishing yourself, which in turns causes your body to produce hormones that conflict and prevent weight loss.

OP, you're treading on some very dangerous ground. Watch yourself.

Actually it's most everyone else, not the OP. The OP actually had a good idea for a thread that got turned into yet another vegan/vegetarian/meat eater debate.

I scratched my WTF and thought "head"

That's just how I roll....

wait... what.. you're gaining? you need to eat more.... WTF?

This is the one that kills me. I get the eye rolling thing going on at this point. Energy balance and whatnot. Someone creating their own energy out of nothing seems pretty incredible.

I've reached the point of



with that one. like... oh, your gaining weight, must be that caloric deficit. how the frick is that possible. either there is no deficit, infact a surplus, or you have health problems.

I don't see how that works.

The deeper the deficit, the more likely you are to be malnourishing yourself, which in turns causes your body to produce hormones that conflict and prevent weight loss.

so if your gaining.... eat more? that would be a plateau, and it kinda sounds like bro science, although it might just sound like bro science. how long can this hormonal weight loss prevention last? at what threshold does it usually kick in? any studies. I would actually like to know.

You know what makes me nuts? ANY weight-loss product hyped via MLM.

"Have you tried THAT CRAZY WRAP THING? You can lose a BAJILLION inches by sticking this magical papery stuff to your body. Just look at my before and after photos, because those are TOTALLY NOT FAKE!"

or

"Hi! I'm with Team Beachbody! The best way to lose weight is with my $4 shakes!"

or any of the other eight million different MLM products that are out there now, promising to not only make you skinny but make you rich! I swear, if I get one more high school classmate contacting me through Facebook, trying to get me to buy their overpriced snake oil....

EVERYTHING I need to lose weight I can find at my grocery store and my gym. Take your $4 shakes and your magical Acai berry juice and your seaweed wraps and stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

wait... what.. you're gaining? you need to eat more.... WTF?

This is the one that kills me. I get the eye rolling thing going on at this point. Energy balance and whatnot. Someone creating their own energy out of nothing seems pretty incredible.

I've reached the point of



with that one. like... oh, your gaining weight, must be that caloric deficit. how the frick is that possible. either there is no deficit, infact a surplus, or you have health problems.

I don't see how that works.

The deeper the deficit, the more likely you are to be malnourishing yourself, which in turns causes your body to produce hormones that conflict and prevent weight loss.

so if your gaining.... eat more? that would be a plateau, and it kinda sounds like bro science, although it might just sound like bro science. how long can this hormonal weight loss prevention last? at what threshold does it usually kick in? any studies. I would actually like to know.

Read New Rules of Lifting for Women. Primarily, this occurs for long-term deficits and long-term nutrient deficiencies. I'm not sure at what point it would begin. I think it depends on the individual. A lack of unsaturated fats over the long-term causes the body to produce grehlin (the hormone that stimulates hunger) in abundance. I've experienced this one firsthand and it sucks. Also, a potassium deficiency is likely to cause edema, or excess water retention (experienced this one too). And, lastly, a prolonged, under-nourished calorie deficit puts the body under stress, and it responds by producing excess cortisol that will make the body perform more efficiently (calorie burns are affected).

The evidence for this is out there. You just have to take the time to do some research.

Read New Rules of Lifting for Women. Primarily, this occurs for long-term deficits and long-term nutrient deficiencies. I'm not sure at what point it would begin. I think it depends on the individual. A lack of unsaturated fats over the long-term causes the body to produce grehlin (the hormone that stimulates hunger) in abundance. I've experienced this one firsthand and it sucks. Also, a potassium deficiency is likely to cause edema, or excess water retention (experienced this one too). And, lastly, a prolonged, under-nourished calorie deficit puts the body under stress, and it responds by producing excess cortisol that will make the body perform more efficiently (calorie burns are affected).

The evidence for this is out there. You just have to take the time to do some research.

^The above is what my nutritionist told me. She had me increase my calories from my self-imposed 1200 a day up to 1850 because of how much I work out. She also had me INCREASE the fat I was eating, which scared me to death. Most days I just can't eat that much, but it feels SO good not to be hungry anymore! Plus, while I was sure I was going to end up blimp sized... I lost six pounds the first week and have been having small losses since, either on the scale or -- much more dramatically -- in my measurements. The info posted above is pure GOLD.

(Edited because all the quote boxes were messing with my OCD.)