Fat-positive Feminism and Weight Loss
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Be unhealthy and proud!
Being an alcoholic isn't a personal problem to be addressed and overcome, it's a political statement. Embrace it and destroy your liver proudly!
How is that any different?
ETA: Is it different? If you are talking being positive and loving yourself, but wanting to be healthier, I can see it. That's just not the impression I get from the OP or what I've seen of the fat acceptance movement.0 -
Hi, Post feminist I am, but then I am post 40. Fat positive...naw, but positive right now maybe...but longer term aim to be lighter...regards0
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Wow, I think I want to look and feel my best. My personal best. As a 54 year old life long working woman, who votes as often as they open the polls, I wouldn't label any political group as adverse to that.0
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Well, I'm a feminist, and I'm positive that I'm fat. Does that count?
LOLZ! Get it, girl!0 -
I think part of the issue is also rejecting third party standards about what constitutes "normal" weight, or always equating overweight with poor health. For example, I am overweight by every metric, and according to the heigh/weight charts, I would be "normal" anywhere in the 115-151 pound range. However, I know for a fact that being 115 (or even 120) pounds would be totally and completely unhealthy for me. I have around 140 pounds of lean body mass right now--why should I sacrifice muscle to fit into some "normal" box on a chart. Right now my goal weight is 160, which is still overweight according to all of the charts. But I think it's up to me to decide what's good for my body. If that makes me "fat" by medical metrics, then F them, basically. In addition, it makes me angry when people say that fat people are unhealthy, as if they can somehow see into their internal organs and assess their function. Even when I was 200 pounds, I exercised 4-5 times per week, could ride 100 miles on my bike, had "normal" blood pressure/pulse/blood sugar readings. The only thing unhealthy about me was not fitting into the right category on a chart!
So in terms of fat positivity versus body recomposition, I think the real issue is about having your own choices about your body be respected by those around you.
you're not obese though. You're an illustration of everything that's wrong with BMI charts, and the most up to date medical research rejects BMI as a way to determine obesity.
my "healthy weight" range is 100-132lb. I'm currently 137lb and 20-25% body fat (depending on how it's measured) and I'm bulking (i.e. eating and training to gain muscle) hoping to get to 140lb (or more) without gaining too much fat.... Currently I have about 102-107lb lean body mass... I'm "overweight" according to BMI, and getting more "overweight".... but BMI is massively flawed so I blatantly ignore it and focus a) on how much I can bench, squat and deadlift, and b) body fat percentage, and that's for health reasons, not aesthetics. While six pack abs look very nice, I'm not bothered about having them myself, I'd much rather be able to deadlift 300+lb. And my ideal weight is the one that gives me the best wilks score.
What's interesting from a gender/feminist point of view, is that everyone accepts it more easily when a man has a lot of lean body mass for his height than when a woman does.... I've been told in the past that my numbers can't possibly be right, by people on internet forums who can't even see me, because I don't confirm to their idea that a woman of my height (5'1") should weigh 105lb, or some other ideal that only applies to small framed people.... really with my lean body mass being what it is, I should weigh 105lb?? pfft!! no way. But I'm not fat, I'm not close to being obese. 35% body fat is obese, I'm nowhere near that. I quoted a range rather than a specific value for my body fat percentage, because I know that there's difficulty getting a totally accurate measurement but I use several different ones and they're in that range and can't all be wrong.
ETA: I'm not currently close to deadlifting that much.... but that's one of my long term goals0 -
choosing to be fat as a way to "fight the power" so to speak, to challenge societal standards of beauty and femininity.
I think maybe a better term that would give you less internal turmoil would be Body Positive. Having a positive self-image no matter what body you're in and striving to make it the best you are comfortable with
I agree - go for the positive self-image. But 'choosing to be fat as a way to fight the power'? No, the only person you are hurting (or fighting) is yourself - the so called 'power' doesn't care. I spent most of my life being very obese and it hurts - it's not fighting the power or challenging societal standards when your body is screaming at you to fix it. I've experienced life on both sides - I was still the same person when I lost 153 pounds, just smaller. Choose healthy and a positive self-image no matter what size you are.0 -
I'm seeing myself as MY BODY POSITIVE rather than "fat positive"
I just wrote an apology to my body as part of my healing and I feel great since I stopped eating bread.
I made a choice a few days ago to not speak to myself in a negative way especially relating to my body.
Feel free to add me if you want to!0 -
I am proud to call myself a feminist and have no qualms about losing weight. I am losing it for me, so that I am healthier and feel more comfortable in my own body,0
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I tried reading all the responses before I posted, but I couldn't take any more a few pages in. All I'm hearing is "fat is bad and you should feel bad blah blah blah"
I'm fat-positive.
I grew up in the neo-pagan community; the daughter of a 300lb witch of a woman. Big women are very common amongst American pagans. We call it "goddess sized" and we're cool with it. More than cool with it. "Goddess Size" is sexy. We're a sensual people. We like to eat, to drink, to dance, and to hug. I've seen more dancing, naked, fat people in my lifetime than you can possibly imagine.
The pagan community is gender positive, but very feminist. We overemphasize the feminine divine. Our leaders are women.
I was looking at fat people during my developmental life stages. In my early teens, I looked at all those soft rolls dancing by firelight and realized that I wanted to touch that. All that jiggly business. I've been a chubby chaser my whole life.
Fat people can have their health problems. They'll have painful joints if they stay sedentary. But sedentary and out of physical shape and fat don't go hand and hand. You can run/dance/climb all you want, but if you eat too many good meals, you'll be fat as *kitten*. I can't get down with hating fat people, shaming them, calling them all sorts of names (lazy, gross, in denial, selfish, stupid)----just because they overeat?
Maybe if they're fat because they under-exercise. That's easy to do. It's harder to burn calories than it is to eat them. Sedentary is lazy. A sedentary person can be in denial. But a sedentary person can be skinny, also, and that's just as unhealthy as being sedentary and fat.
You can run miles and miles and be fat. I know plenty of people in very good shape, hauling around a whole lot of hearty-meal-induced pounds.
and me? I am interested in the interesting people who enjoy fine wine, good meals. Happy people eat dessert. I'll hang out with someone who can appreciate cake long before I'll hang out with someone who whines about calories and always turns down doughnuts.
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and all that fat-positive belief does nothing to dissuade me from preferring myself thin
I don't like being heavy. Cars, clothes, carnival rides, bicycles, restaurant booths: they aren't comfortable to me when I gain weight. So I stay slim. I stay slim because I like me slim.
Maybe it's hypocritical?
but my skinny daughter-of-crazy-feminists self dates heavy because heavy can be sexy.0 -
I tried reading all the responses before I posted, but I couldn't take any more a few pages in. All I'm hearing is "fat is bad and you should feel bad blah blah blah"
I'm fat-positive.
I grew up in the neo-pagan community; the daughter of a 300lb witch of a woman. Big women are very common amongst American pagans. We call it "goddess sized" and we're cool with it. More than cool with it. "Goddess Size" is sexy. We're a sensual people. We like to eat, to drink, to dance, and to hug. I've seen more dancing, naked, fat people in my lifetime than you can possibly imagine.
The pagan community is gender positive, but very feminist. We overemphasize the feminine divine. Our leaders are women.
I was looking at fat people during my developmental life stages. In my early teens, I looked at all those soft rolls dancing by firelight and realized that I wanted to touch that. All that jiggly business. I've been a chubby chaser my whole life.
Fat people can have their health problems. They'll have painful joints if they stay sedentary. But sedentary and out of physical shape and fat don't go hand and hand. You can run/dance/climb all you want, but if you eat too many good meals, you'll be fat as *kitten*. I can't get down with hating fat people, shaming them, calling them all sorts of names (lazy, gross, in denial, selfish, stupid)----just because they overeat?
Maybe if they're fat because they under-exercise. That's easy to do. It's harder to burn calories than it is to eat them. Sedentary is lazy. A sedentary person can be in denial. But a sedentary person can be skinny, also, and that's just as unhealthy as being sedentary and fat.
You can run miles and miles and be fat. I know plenty of people in very good shape, hauling around a whole lot of hearty-meal-induced pounds.
and me? I am interested in the interesting people who enjoy fine wine, good meals. Happy people eat dessert. I'll hang out with someone who can appreciate cake long before I'll hang out with someone who whines about calories and always turns down doughnuts.
.
.
.
and all that fat-positive belief does nothing to dissuade me from preferring myself thin
I don't like being heavy. Cars, clothes, carnival rides, bicycles, restaurant booths: they aren't comfortable to me when I gain weight. So I stay slim. I stay slim because I like me slim.
Maybe it's hypocritical?
but my skinny daughter-of-crazy-feminists self dates heavy because heavy can be sexy.
Would you marry me? I think I love you!0 -
I am happy to find this mostly intelligent discussion thread in the MFP sea (except for a few hateful comments in here).
I am a feminist. I was not insecure about my body when I was overweight. However I was rightfully unhappy and angry with some other very painful problems and relationships issues in my life. But I was doing the best I could at the time to take care of myself and be healthy.
I started going to therapy and focusing on surrendering and de-stressing and being happy and taking care of myself. I started to become happier inside. And then one day I realized that I had also started losing weight without trying. Being healthy externally was a byproduct for me of being healthy and happy internally.
So for me I didn't have to reconcile a decision to lose weight with questioning if I was accepting myself or not. It was the reverse: because I accepted and cared for myself, I started to lose weight. I do think this will be the case for many people. I understand there are exceptions such as people who are overweight because of medical issues. However the majority of people are overweight because of emotional challenges. Obviously people can be underweight or ideal weight too with emotional challenges and stresses. I don't judge people and never assume anything about their reasons when I meet them.
I still have those painful external problems and relationship issues in my life - they haven't gone away. I am now maintaining a healthy weight and trying to focus on taking care of myself. I don't want to take my anger at my circumstances out on myself and punish myself by overeating, not exercising and gaining weight. A way for me to fight the power is to keep being healthy and happy despite the crap that life throws at me, to rise above my problems and triumph.
Another note is that I actually enjoy physical activity, sports, exercise, walking, hiking, dancing. These can be really enjoyable things that make your life fulfilling if you find activities that you enjoy and don't just feel forced to do. Engaging in these healthy ways to enjoy my life are ways to value myself.
Thank you so much for sharing0 -
I would say that in considering if your fitness goals are based on societal influences, you are allowing yourself the self-doubt that makes it so you don't have to work so hard for it. A bit of an excuse really.... no offense... ha ha I have these all the time! Just that yours, is a different way to look at it.0
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I tried reading all the responses before I posted, but I couldn't take any more a few pages in. All I'm hearing is "fat is bad and you should feel bad blah blah blah"
I'm fat-positive.
I grew up in the neo-pagan community; the daughter of a 300lb witch of a woman. Big women are very common amongst American pagans. We call it "goddess sized" and we're cool with it. More than cool with it. "Goddess Size" is sexy. We're a sensual people. We like to eat, to drink, to dance, and to hug. I've seen more dancing, naked, fat people in my lifetime than you can possibly imagine.
The pagan community is gender positive, but very feminist. We overemphasize the feminine divine. Our leaders are women.
I was looking at fat people during my developmental life stages. In my early teens, I looked at all those soft rolls dancing by firelight and realized that I wanted to touch that. All that jiggly business. I've been a chubby chaser my whole life.
Fat people can have their health problems. They'll have painful joints if they stay sedentary. But sedentary and out of physical shape and fat don't go hand and hand. You can run/dance/climb all you want, but if you eat too many good meals, you'll be fat as *kitten*. I can't get down with hating fat people, shaming them, calling them all sorts of names (lazy, gross, in denial, selfish, stupid)----just because they overeat?
Maybe if they're fat because they under-exercise. That's easy to do. It's harder to burn calories than it is to eat them. Sedentary is lazy. A sedentary person can be in denial. But a sedentary person can be skinny, also, and that's just as unhealthy as being sedentary and fat.
You can run miles and miles and be fat. I know plenty of people in very good shape, hauling around a whole lot of hearty-meal-induced pounds.
and me? I am interested in the interesting people who enjoy fine wine, good meals. Happy people eat dessert. I'll hang out with someone who can appreciate cake long before I'll hang out with someone who whines about calories and always turns down doughnuts.
.
.
.
and all that fat-positive belief does nothing to dissuade me from preferring myself thin
I don't like being heavy. Cars, clothes, carnival rides, bicycles, restaurant booths: they aren't comfortable to me when I gain weight. So I stay slim. I stay slim because I like me slim.
Maybe it's hypocritical?
but my skinny daughter-of-crazy-feminists self dates heavy because heavy can be sexy.
Yes yes , thank you!! Excellent0 -
I consider myself feminist and body positive. I don't believe that anyone should have their value as a person judged based on their weight, appearance, or ability. I have people I love in my life of all different sizes, and I accept and love them where they're at. However, I don't think it is incompatible to love/accept/don't judge someone where they are at, and also endorse a healthier lifestyle.
I think it's important to love yourself and your body - but loving it invokes taking care of it. I don't want to body-shame anyone, including myself, but no one does themselves any favors by remaining unhealthy, making choices that will, in the long run, affect mobility and even life span. It's hard for men to "get" how much emotional and societal baggage women have about weight and their bodies,and I appreciate a lot of the affirming parts of the "fat positive" movement - but I also think it enables women to not have to heal the relationships they have with food or their bodies. If you're "perfectly fine" the way you are then you never have to change anything or understand why you overeat or overcome your fears of working out, and you never get to be amazed by watching yourself rise to a physical challenge and meet it. It seems like a bandaid to cover/redefine the situation, not a solution. And I think it may do as much harm as it does good.
So, for me, I am body positive. I don't talk *kitten* about my body or anyone else's, I try not to judge myself, I challenge body shaming, and I take myself and others where they're at. But I also owe it to myself and my kids to make the most out of this one life I have, and this one body I have. And that means confronting my own issues with food, getting myself to a healthy weight, and getting myself active and strong.
Wow! Said so well! I needed to read this-thanks!0 -
This is starting to sound like a Tumblr debate...! Heh.
On that note: I follow a lot of fitness blogs, but I also follow a lot of women who are feminists, or part of the fat acceptance movement... OR Just fat positive/body positive in general.
I AM NOT STATING I AGREE WITH ALL OF THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION, but these are the statements I see the most when fat acceptance/haes supporters are questioned:
The big reason a lot of them are against dieting or trying to change their lifestyles is because many like to read articles or studies that contradict most of the information we have out there, especially the idea that diet and exercise can "cure" obesity. Here is something I have read myself that may shock you: Scientifically, they have not actually found a cure for obesity. Like any longterm ailment, such as asthma, diabetes, or depression: once you have it chances are it will never go away completely! Even if you have gotten yourself healthy you have to continue managing/treating it for the rest of your life to prevent it from coming back or getting worse. Many studies have found certain people can't ever keep weight off, they just have naturally larger bodies and more fat cells just like other people are underweight regardless of how much or how little they consume. Many also dispute just how bad it is to be overweight or obese in the first place. It is more of a "Why bother?" mentality since many assume any weight loss will not last/will cause more harm than good.
That being said, I don't think carrying a little extra weight is AS MUCH of a problem as doctors and the media make it seem like it is... but once you start getting up there at 40, 50, 100+ pounds it is undisputed that there are certain health risks that dramatically increase. When I was 50 lbs overweight I was exhausted all the time, unable to run up stairs without having to catch my breath, and often I would park it in front of the tv and literally scarf down an entire extra-large tub of Nutella in one sitting. That isn't healthy no matter how big or small a person is.
Fat is often the first thing we look for when we try to figure out if a person is healthy or not, and sometimes that isn't always a very accurate way to look at it. There are plenty of thin people with poor eating habits and a sedentary lifestyle, they aren't any healthier than I was, but because of genetics it may never catch up with them in terms of weight!
ANYWAY, back to the point: I believe you can be a feminist and body positive no matter what your size, you CAN love your body and still try to lose some weight. The two are not mutually exclusive. I don't believe you should shame anybody for the way they look, fat or thin, because you have no idea what their story is and frankly, unless you are a parent or medical professional, their bodies are none of your business.!0 -
I'm fat positive and want to lose weight. It's not an oxymoron you can desire health and still hate discrimination0
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This is starting to sound like a Tumblr debate...! Heh.
On that note: I follow a lot of fitness blogs, but I also follow a lot of women who are feminists, or part of the fat acceptance movement... OR Just fat positive/body positive in general.
I AM NOT STATING I AGREE WITH ALL OF THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION, but these are the statements I see the most when fat acceptance/haes supporters are questioned:
The big reason a lot of them are against dieting or trying to change their lifestyles is because many like to read articles or studies that contradict most of the information we have out there, especially the idea that diet and exercise can "cure" obesity. Here is something I have read myself that may shock you: Scientifically, they have not actually found a cure for obesity. Like any longterm ailment, such as asthma, diabetes, or depression: once you have it chances are it will never go away completely! Even if you have gotten yourself healthy you have to continue managing/treating it for the rest of your life to prevent it from coming back or getting worse. Many studies have found certain people can't ever keep weight off, they just have naturally larger bodies and more fat cells just like other people are underweight regardless of how much or how little they consume. Many also dispute just how bad it is to be overweight or obese in the first place. It is more of a "Why bother?" mentality since many assume any weight loss will not last/will cause more harm than good.
That being said, I don't think carrying a little extra weight is AS MUCH of a problem as doctors and the media make it seem like it is... but once you start getting up there at 40, 50, 100+ pounds it is undisputed that there are certain health risks that dramatically increase. When I was 50 lbs overweight I was exhausted all the time, unable to run up stairs without having to catch my breath, and often I would park it in front of the tv and literally scarf down an entire extra-large tub of Nutella in one sitting. That isn't healthy no matter how big or small a person is.
Fat is often the first thing we look for when we try to figure out if a person is healthy or not, and sometimes that isn't always a very accurate way to look at it. There are plenty of thin people with poor eating habits and a sedentary lifestyle, they aren't any healthier than I was, but because of genetics it may never catch up with them in terms of weight!
ANYWAY, back to the point: I believe you can be a feminist and body positive no matter what your size, you CAN love your body and still try to lose some weight. The two are not mutually exclusive. I don't believe you should shame anybody for the way they look, fat or thin, because you have no idea what their story is and frankly, unless you are a parent or medical professional, their bodies are none of your business.!
Interesting perspective, thanks. It's true a majority of people who lose weight will gain at least some of it back. Yo yo dieting can also have negative consequences on metabolism. I have never heard it argued that therefore obesity should be accepted as a permanent/irreversible condition, but I understand how that information could be floating out there. And if it's a permanent condition that you cannot escape, it makes more sense to embrace and accept it. That sheds a lot of light on the movement, for me.0 -
From Merriam-Webster:
I don't consider myself a feminist in the modern meaning of the word by any means.
Feminism: : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
Just curious...which part of this don't you believe in?
It no longer represents those things, in my opinion. MODERN feminism as a whole, has turned into women playing victims, and wanting to be BETTER than men, not equal to them. We should all be as good as each other, and we have the rights we fought for. Being better than 'the other gender' is not beneficial at all, it's childish.0 -
It no longer represents those things, in my opinion. MODERN feminism as a whole, has turned into women playing victims, and wanting to be BETTER than men, not equal to them. We should all be as good as each other, and we have the rights we fought for. Being better than 'the other gender' is not beneficial at all, it's childish.
No, we don't have all those rights we fought for.
*Women on average STILL earn less than men for performing the same jobs.
*Women on average STILL comprise less of the power positions in society. (CEO's, Lawmakers, etc etc)
*Women on average STILL fight for equal healthcare.
*Women on average STILL fought to be properly heard in cases of sexual assault.
And that's just in America. Overseas we have women fighting for their right to basic education. Are feminists angry? **** YEAH. I don't understand why the above issues DON'T anger women. It depresses me to see so many women - younger ones specifically - act as if we have done all we needed to do. Women, minorities, gays, transgender folks - we are not yet equal.
We have not yet reached home. We still have a lot of work to do.0 -
i don't think so...because heavy ppl who hang together and just go ...oh we're fat...tend to stay fat together because they comfort eachother...not trying to change themselves. being excepting of yourself is great so that you like yourself to make healthy changes not try to live up to societies standards0
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