Asked for help, REFUSED! *rant*

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  • Mokey41
    Mokey41 Posts: 5,769 Member
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    Off on a bit of a tangent but i've heard the american use of enabling, and it is always negative.

    In the uk enabling is positive thing. It means giving someone the support, assisitance, information, resources, whatever, to acheive something they couldn't alone. People who work to support disabled people, for example, are sometimes called enablement workers. just a funny thing, one of these '2 nations seperated by a common language' things!

    Enabling an obese person, an alcoholic or a drug addict to continue with their destructive behaviour is much different than someone who enables a physically or mentally challenged person to live a more normal and productive life than they would on their own.

    You are looking for an enabler to help you lose weight which would be a good thing but from the attitude I see coming across I think the first person you might look to would be someone in the mental health industry who could help you understand the reason you feel the need to overeat and try to justify why the world is against you.
  • foleyshirley
    foleyshirley Posts: 1,043 Member
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    I know it is entitle to make it's own rules but I just think those rules are not fair. I don't want to have to go to a hospital to get help, I want help in that kind of setting. I really feel I would benefit from it, so I don't know why I can't. I think I could keep up because I have as good brain as anyone and I always try my best. I don't know why they assume I couldn't. I don't know that there are any other groups out there, this is the main local organisation for this sort of thing. It's just really frustrating

    I don't assume they are out to get me, I just feel it's not fair.

    I don't think they necessarily mean hospital. Just that you should be under medical supervision, which I agree with. With a bmi of 61, you should definitely see a doctor before starting an exercise program IMO. There is definitely a liability and safety issue.
  • southpaw0
    southpaw0 Posts: 4 Member
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    At a BMI of 61 one falls under the range of super super obese. Weight loss for someone this size should only be considered under medical supervision. This is because the person is at an very high risk of having a heart attack, stroke, etc. so activity and food intake has to be reduced very carefully. The fact that you want to do something about your weight is commendable, but please seek help first from your doctor who can set you up with a clinically supervised weight loss program until you are at a lower weight at which point you may be able to do it on yourself. This is in your best interest. Quite simply, your life depends on it.
  • MrsFowler1069
    MrsFowler1069 Posts: 657 Member
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    Off on a bit of a tangent but i've heard the american use of enabling, and it is always negative.

    In the uk enabling is positive thing. It means giving someone the support, assisitance, information, resources, whatever, to acheive something they couldn't alone. People who work to support disabled people, for example, are sometimes called enablement workers. just a funny thing, one of these '2 nations seperated by a common language' things!
    Enabling IS a negative thing. It's associated with folks surrounding those who have addictions and catering to them, so as not to rock the boat.

    That's always a bad thing and gives the person in question no motivation to change whatsoever.


    People in this thread are not jumping on you because you are overweight - they are jumping on you because you WANT to be enabled.


    Interesting point. Enabling has meant, traditionally, in the US, the same as you describe in the UK, but certainly there has been a shift since, oh, the 80's or so in term of its use in a psychological sense, which has gained a lot of traction. It is funny, isn't it? :)



    en·a·ble (-nbl)
    tr.v. en·a·bled, en·a·bling, en·a·bles
    1.
    a. To supply with the means, knowledge, or opportunity; make able: a hole in the fence that enabled us to watch; techniques that enable surgeons to open and repair the heart.
    b. To make feasible or possible: funds that will enable construction of new schools.
    2. To give legal power, capacity, or sanction to: a law enabling the new federal agency.
    3. To make operational; activate: enabled the computer's modem; enable a nuclear warhead.


    Enabling
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [bold]This article describes enabling in its counseling or psychological sense. [/bold]For enabling in an empowerment sense, see empowerment. For enabling in computer terms where an object or Graphical user interface widget is able to respond to events, see enabled/disabled.
    Enabling is a term with a double meaning in psychotherapy and mental health.[1]
    As a positive term, enabling references patterns of interaction which allow individuals to develop and grow. These patterns may be on any scale, for example within the family,[1] or in wider society as "Enabling acts" designed to empower some group, or create a new authority for a (usually governmental) body.
    In a negative sense, enabling is also used to describe dysfunctional behavior approaches that are intended to help resolve a specific problem but in fact may perpetuate or exacerbate the problem.[1][2] A common theme of enabling in this latter sense is that third parties take responsibility, blame, or make accommodations for a person's harmful conduct (often with the best of intentions, or from fear or insecurity which inhibits action). The practical effect is that the person himself or herself does not have to do so, and is shielded from awareness of the harm it may do, and the need or pressure to change. Enabling in this sense is a major environmental cause of addiction.[3]
    A common example of enabling can be observed in the relationship between the alcoholic/addict and a codependent spouse. The spouse who attempts to shield the addict from the negative consequences of their behavior by calling in sick to work for them, making excuses that prevent others from holding them accountable, and generally cleaning up the mess that occurs in the wake of their impaired judgment.[citation needed] In reality what the spouse is doing is hurting, not helping. Enabling prevents psychological growth in the person being enabled and can contribute to negative symptoms in the enabler.
    One of the primary purposes of a formal Family Intervention with alcoholics/addicts is to help the family cease their enabling behaviors.


    Edit: Sorry, I was taking a guess at how to bold a phrase. I don't know how, which is now obvious. lol If anyone would like to share information with me which might enable me to accomplish this, I would appreciate it. :wink:
  • NonnyMary
    NonnyMary Posts: 982 Member
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    A person must be really in bad shape, more than they know, if a group of overweight people reject him. And for one of those overweight people to look at him and exclaim "you need a doctor!" is telling something.

    I beleive when the fat person (like me) realizes that the world does not or cannot accommodate their girth, when things become so uncomfortabel, and the person cant even find a two-seater to sit in, cant go to the theatre because there are no seats wide enough, and cant walk more than 1 city block, and cant breathe while walking up steps, and things get so hard that their pants rip in public, when they try to join a fat group and even the fat people reject him, then when life becomes so uncomfortble that they cant even breathe, they cant even control their food choices, and when the person realized how deathly sick that their fat might actually kill them and they will have to be on a breathing tube because their poor heart gave out finally, then that is the pain that will motivate them to change.

    As long as someone is catered to, is not made uncomfortable, wants only someone to pity them, and coddle them, and if a person can go along in life "ok" and not be discomforted because of their large girth, then they will not change.. no reason to. coz food tastes better than the denying of it. and life accommodates them in general, so no need to change.

    I think its a damn good thing that the OP got rejected.. This is the first step in getting so angry - that they will get angry enough at themselves for getting so damn big that even the fatties reject him. He needs to get angry at himself ,, and how he got there, and now how to get out of it so he wont go there EVER again.

    yes i said it - "fatties".. its a hard word to take, but its reality.

    I think I love you... :drinker: :flowerforyou:

    QWell I'm sure you'll be both delighted to my weight causes my daily abuse, discomfort and humiliation. Isn;t that wonderful?
    It has done for the last 8 yrs or so, and i have felt so much anger about how i have been treated (yes, i think it is WRONG to suffer verbal abuse, no one 'deserves' that) and how things are for me, at myself and others.... but still I am fat??? Maybe people can't be humiliated into losing weight because it is actually totally demotivating. The ppl who succeed tend to be those who are leaning to feel good about themselves. I am trying to love myself because i think it is helpful ingeneral and for weightloss. Is it ok? Or is it better that I hate myself? Because I can easily do that too.

    ps.i hear 'fattie' just about everyday, you gonna have to try a lot harder,i bet you wont even come close to some of the stuff i heard.

    If what I said made you get so mad at me that you will make a change to show me you can do it, then good! Your words cant hurt me, I want you to get so riled up at yourself that you will want to stop being sick and fat!

    I hope whatever I said challenges you to get off your butt and lose weight.

    You got yourself into it, now, what are you going to do about it? curse the world for being unfair, or get mad at yourself for putting yourself into 500 pounds!

    As I said, anger or negative feelings don't mptivate me to change. If anything they make me feel worse and less motivated. I have taken a maasive amount of abuse and also inconvenience and humiliation for my weightm it's nothing new at all. It doesn't work! When stuff like that happens, it has me running for the takeaway. feeling GOOD about myself is what helps.

    Don't flatter yourself that your words hve had any power, I have not been challenged to anything. I am doing this for myself (even though i sorta would like to show those ppl who told me i couldnt be in their group!), not to please someone on line who i don't even know, or because I have decided the words on a forum are the gospel truth You say my words dont hurt you, well your words dont hurt ME, I am so used to it. But make no mistake they dont help me.

    If there is anyone in the this thread who has helped me on the path back to weight loss, it's the people who are kind constructive and supportive.

    Also, i don't weight 500lbs. Not that I am judging ppl who do but i dont.

    PS for all- I called the exercise class, they told me the reason is the BMI limits represents their remit and as an NHS service they really can't deviate from that, as its how funding works.

    Ok in the meantime, while you are searching for that thing to make you feel good - then are you going to do something about weight loss yourself? You feel like you have been slighted and neglected, ok so you said it, you got it out of your system. Now that that is over, you still have your weight to deal with.

    What is the reality of your situation? Not what you wish for, not what you hope for, not what some group who dissed you rejected you, but now you are stuck with YOU.

    What are you going to do with you?

    Try this - fill one hand with "Im so mad at those idiots" and fill the other with "I'm going to lose weight with or without them, whether or not "I feel good".. and see which one fills up faster.

    Ok so i understand your being mad, now however, the only thing you could be mad about is your SELF. Get mad at yourSELF so that you continue to lose the next 5 pounds.

    I know you are frustrated becuse you want so bad for something or someone to make you feel good. But if that thing is not found, are you going to be miserable?

    so look around, see what is in your life now. See what you can do. Feeling good will come - when you get a victory over your efforts.. when you yourself make a victory in something, whatever that is. Make a goal. dont worry about feeling good yet. But make a goal that you can see. Then when you achieve, it, by God, you WILL feel good, and you did it yourself.

    If I waited till i "felt good" to do something I'd still be a fattie. but now im less of a fattie.

    You still should not be phobic of doctors. You can see one in his office. You need one to assess how unwell you are. Physically.

    I would recommend, try to stop the psycho-babble kind of thing a lot of people think they need.

    Thats it,, I am really here to try to help. I'm not here to poke fun of you.. But i like to challenge you to actually DO something, not just get mad and wish and hope, but actually do something.. little bit by bit.

    if you are for real, and not just wishin and hopin and gettin mad, then lets see some progress.. Hang out with us in MFP. Start logging food. if you cant exercise yet, then dont worry about it. Lets see what you can do or else maybe you just want to complain,., if not prove it.
  • WillowWindow
    WillowWindow Posts: 100 Member
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    I admit I didn't read this whole thread because, though some people were sympathetic and helpful, too many were just jumping on the tough love bandwagon and insulting and disparaging the OP, who I believe has demonstrated his will and determination to improve his health by losing 65 pounds, far more than some of you people with lots of advice for him to "stop pitying himself and do something". If you had bothered to go to his profile you would have seen that he is and must have been for some time on the weight loss track. It's also positive that he's trying to find lifestyle help to increase his chances of success. Frankly, I'm rather tired of people jumping on people on these forums -- seems to me that some of you are really talking to yourselves you get up such a head of steam. The OP has said clearly several times that only positive encouragement works but that hasn't stopped some of you. I agree that trying to shame someone into something rarely works and conversely amost certainly doesn't. Do people really need to experience more shame and abuse on these boards than they get in everyday life in the name of "help"?
  • joselo2
    joselo2 Posts: 461
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    Awww, thanks Jean. It's true, I have lost mre weight already than most of these lot ever will

    Yes Nonny, I like to feel good. It helps me. Bleive it or not I can feel good while still fat because there is more to me than my weight.

    Enablement is NOT a bad thing, in my context, only the american pschyco speak langauge which seems to have been adopted as the meaning. Enablement means helping people. And that is in essence a positive.

    lol, I never thought of myself as 'super super obese'!!
  • Adw7677
    Adw7677 Posts: 201 Member
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    It seems there's a general attitude that big people don't want to lose weight. My bmi is around 40 and it took forever to find workout clothes, sports bras, etc... Even the Bodymedia armband (the ones they use on Biggest Loser) ships with a "medium" armstrap, which was too small for me.

    Don't take it personal. I just tell myself that manufacturers are dumb and are missing out on a large piece of the pie. (haha)
  • mrsshortstack
    mrsshortstack Posts: 4 Member
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    I agree that the hospital mention might just really mean "under a doctor's supervision" - but have you checked out any groups offered by a local hospital? When I worked in Cardiac Rehab there were multiple classes that sounded just like this group you're wanting in to. They were beautifully fit to the participants - folks with limitations due to weight/heart/muscle/blood sugar conditions and very safe as trained staff were always around. Our program ran in a building run by the hospital, not the actual hospital building itself - much more comfortable. I highly recommend checking this out! So many people told me how wonderful their experience was and how cared for they felt because things were really fit just to them.
  • HelenTheZ
    HelenTheZ Posts: 42 Member
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    It seems there's a general attitude that big people don't want to lose weight. My bmi is around 40 and it took forever to find workout clothes, sports bras, etc... Even the Bodymedia armband (the ones they use on Biggest Loser) ships with a "medium" armstrap, which was too small for me.

    Don't take it personal. I just tell myself that manufacturers are dumb and are missing out on a large piece of the pie. (haha)

    THIS x 1,000. So many fat-judgers say ugly things about just having to be AROUND fat people ... but we apparently aren't entitled to buy workout clothing or show up at the gym, either! HA! I LOVE ordering fatty workout clothes online, putting them on, and then going out and being all FAT at people while I exercise! Nyaaaaahhhh!

    PS: If shaming, scolding, insults, and berating had any value for weight loss, NOBODY in the world would be overweight. 'Cause there's a surplus of THAT kind of motivation.
  • Hearts_2015
    Hearts_2015 Posts: 12,031 Member
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    To hell with them. You got us! :-D xxx
    :happy: :flowerforyou:

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