All calories are not the same

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  • aliciap412
    aliciap412 Posts: 170 Member
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    Okay. So meat may be eaten raw, but even if it is cooked, it is considered a whole food? But if wheat is soaked and ground, then it is no longer a "whole food"?

    Is the problem the food or is the problem the arbitrary concept of "whole food"?

    when considering what is minimal processing of a food, its important to distinguish plant vs meat.

    eventually you end up with a food product and not a food

    I'd wager that apple is to wheat as chicken is to pepperoni, get it?
  • ShadeBlossom
    ShadeBlossom Posts: 99 Member
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    Or are you suggesting that wheat isn't meant to be eaten at all?

    I'm not, although there are many medical doctors making this suggestion, I'm not going there.

    I was suggesting that its not necessarily a whole food since its a plant that you can't pick and eat.

    in other words, bread is a processed food.

    I'm aware bread is a processed food. I was talking about flour, which is a component of bread.

    Wheat has to be picked, hulled, and milled to be made into flour which can be cooked and eaten. Chickens have to be cooked, bled, plucked, and cleaned of innards, which can then be cooked and eaten. You're not making a very convincing argument for why one is a 'whole food' and the other is not. Both are processed as minimally as they can be and still be edible.

    Of course, I think you're arguing just for the sake of arguing, so I suppose that makes me the fool for helping to entertain you.
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
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    Then perhaps what you learned in "Nutrition 101, chapter 1' was incorrect? But again, what is the significance of this concept? Does it have any relevance to human health?

    does it?

    thats why I brought it up

    And, I'm asking why this concept has significance for you.
  • aliciap412
    aliciap412 Posts: 170 Member
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    actually no, you're thinking that I define whole food for us but I don't.

    nutritionists and dietiticians do that

    if you consider this an argument rather than a discussion, then I'll no longer address you lol
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    The argument isn't about the number of calories, it's about the nutritional value of those calories. Yes, 250 calories is 250 calories, but you may not be getting quite as much that benefits you from a slice of pizza as you probably would from chicken with quinoa and spinach.

    It's the same concept as this: You need to cut your lawn. You COULD go out there and clip each blade individually with nail clippers or you could use a lawnmower. Sure, the job gets done either way, the BIG picture is fine. But when you look at it closely, which one sounds like the better option? They're not equal, despite accomplishing the same task (ie, being 250 calories.)

    That said, that doesn't mean that you can't spend your calories however the hell you want to. Just don't lie to yourself and think you're getting the same nutritional value out of 250 calories of marshmallow Fluff as you would out of 250 calories of protein, grains and vegetables.
    This again relies entirely on context. You get ZERO benefit from exceeding your micronutritient needs. So if one has already met their micronutrient needs, then eating 250 calories of any food is going to be the same, unless one of those foods contains some ingredient which manages to actively destroy other nutrients inside the body.
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
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    Okay. So meat may be eaten raw, but even if it is cooked, it is considered a whole food? But if wheat is soaked and ground, then it is no longer a "whole food"?

    Is the problem the food or is the problem the arbitrary concept of "whole food"?

    when considering what is minimal processing of a food, its important to distinguish plant vs meat.

    eventually you end up with a food product and not a food

    I'd wager that apple is to wheat as chicken is to pepperoni, get it?

    This is starting to sound more like a semantic game than science.
  • anewlife4me8610
    anewlife4me8610 Posts: 91 Member
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    The Calorie content is the same of course, but the fat content and how the body metabolizes the calories are both very different....Its the same theory that a lb of fat weighs the same as a lb of muscle.
    Of course a slice of pizza is going to metabolize very quickly and when I say metabolize I mean, the food is going to turn to glucose and go straight to fat storage...Its the same concept of putting cheap gas into your car, you get the same purpose but you also get a low grade of crap with fillers and things that slow your engine down and pollute your ride.....
    Take a look at a HUGE salad with 4 or 5 servings of slow burning carbs and 5 ounces of a protein like chicken or turkey, you get a huge amount of food, vs a single slice of pizza....if you are wanting volume, then the salad is the way to go, same calorie value, but its worth is much much more and what your body does with its nutritional content is again, much different. There are thin people who eat CRAP and have horrible cholesterol and high blood pressure because the food they eat has little to no nutritional value, but they may eat the same number of calories as the next woman who eats a higher volume of good nutritional foods like veggies and low fat protein. I guess it all boils down to nutritional knowledge and balance.
  • ShadeBlossom
    ShadeBlossom Posts: 99 Member
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    actually no, you're thinking that I define whole food for us but I don't.

    nutritionists and dietiticians do that

    if you consider this an argument rather than a discussion, then I'll no longer address you lol

    I didn't say you defined anything. I'm saying you're mislabeling things without any logical backup.

    ETA: Oh, yeah... 'lol'
  • ThickMcRunFast
    ThickMcRunFast Posts: 22,511 Member
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    Okay. So meat may be eaten raw, but even if it is cooked, it is considered a whole food? But if wheat is soaked and ground, then it is no longer a "whole food"?

    Is the problem the food or is the problem the arbitrary concept of "whole food"?

    when considering what is minimal processing of a food, its important to distinguish plant vs meat.

    eventually you end up with a food product and not a food

    I'd wager that apple is to wheat as chicken is to pepperoni, get it?

    I don't agree with the analogy. I'd say apple is to wheat what chicken is to carpacchio. Wheat is just dried and ground. Pepperoni is salted, cured, mixed with spices, and stuffed into casing.

    I think its just a case of hating wheat being trendy right now. Unless you have an allergy to wheat, it is in no way bad to eat.

    eta: and pepperoni isn't bad for you either unless it is all you eat.
  • MuseofSong
    MuseofSong Posts: 322 Member
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    I think this thread is a troll, so that people can get annoyed, say something wrong and get tattled on by the OP and other posters.

    n4hjlzz
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
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    Next thing you know, people are going to start claiming that pie isn't really pie, but I'll eat the hell out of some pie.


    gDRka.gif
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
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    actually no, you're thinking that I define whole food for us but I don't.

    nutritionists and dietiticians do that

    if you consider this an argument rather than a discussion, then I'll no longer address you lol

    Hum. I guess that depends on how you define "argument."

    1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.

    2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.

    ETA: I do enjoy the "i don't like these questions that you're asking me so I'm going to take my toys and go home" threat though.
  • Achaila
    Achaila Posts: 264 Member
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    Before I had my youngest I lost 75 pounds eating a 1600-1800 calorie diet. Guess what I ate? Pizza. Cookies. Cake. Candy. Whatever I wanted, I just watched the calories. I still lost 75 pounds. Very quickly. There's no doubt in my mind that I would of felt better had I ate foods that were nutritious and good for me, but I opted for food that I love instead. Still lost weight. Just saying.
  • Lleldiranne
    Lleldiranne Posts: 5,516 Member
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    An mile is a mile. Doesn't matter if you walked, ran, biked, or drove, you traveled a mile.

    A pound is a pound. Doesn't matter if it's feathers, iron, fat, or muscle. :wink:

    A gallon is a gallon. Milk, water, beer, petrol … it's still a gallon.

    And yes, a calorie is a calorie. "Calorie" is a unit of measurement, just like mile, pound, and gallon. Calories measure energy.


    As far as energy is concerned, the body doesn't care if it's from vegetables or twinkies. A surplus of energy means that it must be stored somehow - the body stores it as fat, generally. A deficit of energy means the body must pull it from something else, because energy must come from somewhere. It's thermodynamics -- it's physics.

    Of course, there are other issues involved. If you drive a mile, you'll probably get there faster than if you walk. A pound of muscle takes up less space than a pound of fat. And you'd better hope that was milk you drank, and petrol you put in your car and not the other way around :laugh:. You will be healthier overall if most of your calories come from sources that also give you a good balance of nutrients. But you won't lose weight faster on a 1500 calorie diet of vegetables and protein than on a 1500 calorie diet of pizza and chocolate. (And of course, you don't have to chose between the extremes, you can eat 1500 calories of mostly nutrient dense food with a slice of pizza or a piece of chocolate worked in from time to time).
  • aliciap412
    aliciap412 Posts: 170 Member
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    I don't agree with the analogy. I'd say apple is to wheat what chicken is to carpacchio. Wheat is just dried and ground. Pepperoni is salted, cured, mixed with spices, and stuffed into casing.

    I think its just a case of hating wheat being trendy right now. Unless you have an allergy to wheat, it is in no way bad to eat.

    eta: and pepperoni isn't bad for you either unless it is all you eat.

    high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer

    and again, you're still not considering plants and meat separately, and you should
  • ThickMcRunFast
    ThickMcRunFast Posts: 22,511 Member
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    I don't agree with the analogy. I'd say apple is to wheat what chicken is to carpacchio. Wheat is just dried and ground. Pepperoni is salted, cured, mixed with spices, and stuffed into casing.

    I think its just a case of hating wheat being trendy right now. Unless you have an allergy to wheat, it is in no way bad to eat.

    eta: and pepperoni isn't bad for you either unless it is all you eat.

    high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer

    source?

    edit after your edit: I don't usually consider meat because I'm a vegetarian...I just don't agree with your analogy from the perspective of degrees of 'processing'
  • aliciap412
    aliciap412 Posts: 170 Member
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    high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer

    source?

    here's a few, please follow the links for more data

    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/780553
  • Cindyinpg
    Cindyinpg Posts: 3,902 Member
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    Before I had my youngest I lost 75 pounds eating a 1600-1800 calorie diet. Guess what I ate? Pizza. Cookies. Cake. Candy. Whatever I wanted, I just watched the calories. I still lost 75 pounds. Very quickly. There's no doubt in my mind that I would of felt better had I ate foods that were nutritious and good for me, but I opted for food that I love instead. Still lost weight. Just saying.
    Adherence and sustainabilty are key, IMHO. Like you, I was/am successful eating the foods I like (in moderation). I have lost 120lbs in 14 months and have not given up anything. There is no need to overcomplicate everything. If a person feels they can only have 250 calories of chicken breast and then feel deprived and end up eating 5,000 calories worth of pizza instead, it won't matter anymore that the chicken breast might have been a better choice.
  • aliciap412
    aliciap412 Posts: 170 Member
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    source?

    edit after your edit: I don't usually consider meat because I'm a vegetarian...I just don't agree with your analogy from the perspective of degrees of 'processing'

    you're allowed to disagree haha, I ain't even mad
  • ThickMcRunFast
    ThickMcRunFast Posts: 22,511 Member
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    high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer

    source?

    here's a few, please follow the links for more data

    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/780553

    from those studies:

    hese results indicate that the decreased mortality in vegetarians compared with the general population is in large part due to a healthy lifestyle, that is, being non-smokers, being leaner and more physically active, and so on.

    I think the definition of 'whole food' is completely arbitrary, as Beach said. If you eat high calorie, high salt food, smoke, and sit on the couch all day, you have a lower quality of life than someone who eats a balanced diet, exercises, and takes care of themselves. Obviously.

    Oddly, many people on this site seem to randomly decide if something is 'processed' or not based on current diet trends. Ground wheat has seen far less processing than ground beef, yet it is somehow demonized. I just don't get it.

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