Has self love gone too far?

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  • So many people have already said what I think: I think it is great to accept yourself at any weight, but I don't think it is OK to accept your weight at any weight... Big difference there. The whole message we are giving children that you are OK no matter what size you are is wrong to me. It is like saying "starve yourself, it is OK" or "binge yourself to death, it is OK". We should teach our children to be healthy - eat healthy, move their butts on a daily basis, and whatever size that is at, THAT is OK.
  • sunsetzen
    sunsetzen Posts: 268 Member
    Actually, it IS ok! You shouldnt hate yourself or your body for any reason, even as motivation for weight loss. How sad.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
    And i am no where slutty, skanky.. Crazy when i'm just being silly.

    I wasn't saying you were any of those things. I was saying that if you were to do the same thing, I (personally) would still consider it brave because you are setting yourself up for ridicule to make an artistic statement. Maybe everyone doesn't agree with that statement and that's okay. You don't have to. But recognize it for what it is, a very public expression of her own journey to discovering her self-worth.
  • "Over the past few months I have been blessed to be part of a body politic think tank at Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco. As a group we are engaging the question "what sits on the other side of my body's shame and joy?" That is a hard question to answer. For me, in order to understand what sits on the other side of body shame and body joy, I have to engage my internalized body shame and invite the possibilities of body joy."

    This is taken directly from the Huff Post article. What she is doing is exploring is a question of creative expression and using herself as the subject of the exploration. I'm not sure how this is confusing or disturbing to anyone. It seems fairly clear what the objective of the project was. If we like the project is a separate issue from her intent, which is stated clearly here. Everything beyond her statement is what we are projecting onto the art.

    It was an art piece dealing with a specific question, and not her pushing fat acceptance. What she did was an excellent (and brave) way in which to explore the topic she is working with. She could have been thin but still ashamed or critical of parts of her body (like many are) and approached the topic in the same way. Her weight wasn't really the root issue she was attempting to explore, body shame was, and that can be a problem for people of any weight.

    Agreed. That's how I read it too.
  • toutmonpossible
    toutmonpossible Posts: 1,580 Member
    After having read the article and keeping in mind that I'm more obese that she is, I think this was mostly an artsy cry for attention.

    Totally agree - it was a piece of performance art! Evoked strong emotional reactions, got people talking - all of us bringing our own stuff to it when forming an opinion....

    Thats exactly the point. Evoke strong emotion, get people questioning and talking. I dont think it matters if she thinks she's beautiful, and healthy is a completely different topic! What matters is that people will start wondering if she is beautiful--what is beauty? Can an obese woman be beautiful? Who determines what is beautiful? And you're kidding yourself if you think you're not influenced by companies selling you their crap.

    Maybe some of us are already well aware of these issues, starting when we were, say, 9, and don't need the added example of a lady who may or may not believe in her message making herself look ridiculous?
  • Fedup23
    Fedup23 Posts: 80 Member
    I think the better question is; Has caring about another persons choices gone too far?
  • Wildflower0106
    Wildflower0106 Posts: 247 Member
    In this case I don't think this type of performance art promotes anything but the artist. I took a look at her facebook page and I was a little sad. She is an artist and performer. She has made this about appearance and nothing else. She won't even comment when someone brings up health. I think she got the attention she was looking for and her story is all over the internet. I think we should be pushing for people to look at beauty in ways that don't solely depend on how someone looks. I lost weight and got healthy because I loved myself. She would not have been someone I would have looked to for inspiration.
  • teamAmelia
    teamAmelia Posts: 1,247 Member
    I think the message of accepting yourself and embracing your curves, having a positive body image, is a super awesome and lovely message. I agree with loving yourself. But I also agree that loving your self doesn't give you the ok to be obese and unhealthy.
  • snazzyjazzy21
    snazzyjazzy21 Posts: 1,298 Member
    I just hate the idea that if I don't love myself I'm terrible or broken. I don't see why self love is some sort of measure of happiness. Why isn't 'being satisfied' or 'okay' enough?
  • gramarye
    gramarye Posts: 586 Member
    Nope -- because people will still sit here body-policing and turning their noses up at an artist's idea of self-love because they don't like her body. It doesn't matter whether the intentions are good or bad. The underlying statement is, "How can she love her body when X, Y, and Z is wrong with it?"

    No one but her doctor can say for sure if she has any sort of illnesses or ailments related to her weight. All we can see is that she had the audacity to be fat in public and not be ashamed.
  • lovinmyselfagain
    lovinmyselfagain Posts: 307 Member
    'eh. I try not to concern myself with what other people do. I'm glad she thinks she's beautiful. No, it's not healthy to be obese. I don't see how the two facts are related.

    ^^^^^This. Her reasons for taking those pictures were not to proclaim she was physically healthy. It was so that she could learn to love herself in the body she's currently in...to love herself, despite the public and internal voices saying she should loathe herself. Hating yourself is NOT healthy, as well. This was about her emotional/mental health--reclaiming it. Can one not love their life( or just parts of it, etc.,)and still continue to improve it? We are all works in progress... Ya know, she may or may not decide to lose weight. And it's important regardless, that she can look herself in the mirror and still see a beautiful person and KNOW that she's worthy of love just like everyone else.

    And yes, I know it's ironic that my name is "lovinmyselfagain"...I have had this user name for months and, unlike her, could not convince myself I was indeed still worthy of love and respect while obese. Heck, even now, a size 6, I'm still trying to convince myself that I'm beautiful and worthy of love...so kudos to her...how freeing it must be...
  • toutmonpossible
    toutmonpossible Posts: 1,580 Member
    'eh. I try not to concern myself with what other people do. I'm glad she thinks she's beautiful. No, it's not healthy to be obese. I don't see how the two facts are related.

    ^^^^^This. Her reasons for taking those pictures were not to proclaim she was physically healthy. It was so that she could learn to love herself in the body she's currently in...to love herself, despite the public and internal voices saying she should loathe herself. Hating yourself is NOT healthy, as well. This was about her emotional/mental health--reclaiming it.


    Where's the gain in trying to completely redefine reality to please yourself? Who said you have to be beautiful not to hate yourself? If anything, people ought to be saying "I'm NOT beautiful and I like myself," because that's the case with most people.

    But most people aren't stimulated by ordinary goals. They want to be extraordinary, which is why there will always be a level of dissatisfaction for us all.
  • Hildy_J
    Hildy_J Posts: 1,050 Member
    If anything, people ought to be saying "I'm NOT beautiful and I like myself," because that's the case with most people.

    You ARE beautiful. My grandma, when she died, was 90 years old had white hair, no teeth and a very wrinkly face. All my childhood I would look at her in adoration because she WAS beautiful. Anna Wintour wouldn't have put her on the cover of Vogue but she was.

    I'm not talking about 'attractive' ie someone you want to get close to, nekkid... But there's a way... to catch the humanity in a person... in something they do or a way they move... so you can really see them - we're beautiful. The woman on the bus was beautiful because she was doing something crazy and hilarious. In heels.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
    I just hate the idea that if I don't love myself I'm terrible or broken. I don't see why self love is some sort of measure of happiness. Why isn't 'being satisfied' or 'okay' enough?

    Because we all deserve happiness. Happiness is not some ultimate trophy where only the most fabulous are worthy of it.
  • lovinmyselfagain
    lovinmyselfagain Posts: 307 Member
    'eh. I try not to concern myself with what other people do. I'm glad she thinks she's beautiful. No, it's not healthy to be obese. I don't see how the two facts are related.

    ^^^^^This. Her reasons for taking those pictures were not to proclaim she was physically healthy. It was so that she could learn to love herself in the body she's currently in...to love herself, despite the public and internal voices saying she should loathe herself. Hating yourself is NOT healthy, as well. This was about her emotional/mental health--reclaiming it.




    Where's the gain in trying to completely redefine reality to please yourself? Who said you have to be beautiful not to hate yourself? If anything, people ought to be saying "I'm NOT beautiful and I like myself," because that's the case with most people.

    But most people aren't stimulated by ordinary goals. They want to be extraordinary, which is why there will always be a level of dissatisfaction for us all.

    I think the point is we aren't talking about conventional beauty, what society defines as beautiful...why should she limit herself to the constraints of other people's definition of beauty, even if it is how the majority of the world thinks? Why should anyone let someone else or society define them? So many of us are miserable because we are trying to live up to other people's ideals and expectations. So again, I say it's freeing for her and anyone else who can say "eff" society's narrow view of what is beautiful and strut their stuff, no matter their weight...
  • toutmonpossible
    toutmonpossible Posts: 1,580 Member
    'eh. I try not to concern myself with what other people do. I'm glad she thinks she's beautiful. No, it's not healthy to be obese. I don't see how the two facts are related.

    ^^^^^This. Her reasons for taking those pictures were not to proclaim she was physically healthy. It was so that she could learn to love herself in the body she's currently in...to love herself, despite the public and internal voices saying she should loathe herself. Hating yourself is NOT healthy, as well. This was about her emotional/mental health--reclaiming it.




    Where's the gain in trying to completely redefine reality to please yourself? Who said you have to be beautiful not to hate yourself? If anything, people ought to be saying "I'm NOT beautiful and I like myself," because that's the case with most people.

    But most people aren't stimulated by ordinary goals. They want to be extraordinary, which is why there will always be a level of dissatisfaction for us all.

    I think the point is we aren't talking about conventional beauty, what society defines as beautiful...why should she limit herself to the constraints of other people's definition of beauty, even if it is how the majority of the world thinks? Why should anyone let someone else or society define them? So many of us are miserable because we are trying to live up to other people's ideals and expectations. So again, I say it's freeing for her and anyone else who can say "eff" society's narrow view of what is beautiful and strut their stuff, no matter their weight...

    She's presenting herself as if she wants to be judged by conventional beauty standards, which are physical. There are variations, but physical conventional standards usually start with tight, smooth skin and regular features, a general appearance of health, not morbid obesity. She's not touting her inner beauty. If she thinks it's freeing, fine, but many of us think she's deluded and we're allowed to think that as well.
  • toutmonpossible
    toutmonpossible Posts: 1,580 Member
    If anything, people ought to be saying "I'm NOT beautiful and I like myself," because that's the case with most people.

    You ARE beautiful. My grandma, when she died, was 90 years old had white hair, no teeth and a very wrinkly face. All my childhood I would look at her in adoration because she WAS beautiful. Anna Wintour wouldn't have put her on the cover of Vogue but she was.

    I'm not talking about 'attractive' ie someone you want to get close to, nekkid... But there's a way... to catch the humanity in a person... in something they do or a way they move... so you can really see them - we're beautiful. The woman on the bus was beautiful because she was doing something crazy and hilarious. In heels.

    I think we all are or can be beautiful in a larger sense. We do that with our thoughts and acts. I believe in enlarging the concept of physical beauty, for too long in the West it's been Eurocentric. But I think it's ridiculous to try to completely redefine the entire concept of physical beauty, which may have evolutionary roots.

    She is demanding to be judged by physical beauty/attractiveness standards, otherwise she wouldn't be parading in her undies in heels.

    I also think it's ridiculous when, based purely on physical standards, someone tries to argue that a 40 year old is as good looking as a good looking 20 year old. There's no comparison. Don't get me wrong, in prosperous societies older people are looking better and better and there's no reason they shouldn't keep up their appearance if it's important to them, but true physical beauty is rare and fleeting and belongs to youth.
  • toutmonpossible
    toutmonpossible Posts: 1,580 Member
    It's really only recently that anyone has felt entitled to walk around naked and be worshiped. In the past, people had a very different relationship with their bodies.
  • LifeEternal
    LifeEternal Posts: 9 Member
    Honestly the way that society has gone, they make being fat seem like something that should be shameful.It isbecause of this that there are people who fight that notion and have articles like this.There would be no need for this article if people of all sizes felt generally represneted or at least accepted as a person and not an anomaly in film and news.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    It's really only recently that anyone has felt entitled to walk around naked and be worshiped. In the past, people had a very different relationship with their bodies.

    Judgement of Paris

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    Ruebens
    rubens-judgement-paris-NG194-fm.jpg

    Dean Brown
    dean-brown-the-incomplete-history-of-art-the-judgement-of-paris.jpg

    18-famous-paintings-improved-by-cats-rubens-judgement-of-paris-cat-15.jpg?w=660

    Art, especially about esthetics, is often taking those ideas and challenging them.