Saying No to Vaccinations

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  • littlenature
    littlenature Posts: 46
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    You're all mostly Americans, huh? While I'm definitely an advocate of vaccinations for children against serious diseases (MMR specifically), I really had no idea that it was the 'done' thing in the US for normal adults to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. In the UK, only certain at risk groups receive this vaccination, for example, the elderly, front line health care workers and the immune-suppressed. I don't think I've ever had the flu either. My flatmate had it last winter though and although he was bedridden for half a week, he got over it and I honestly had no idea that this was something people felt the need to be vaccinated against!
  • MissStatement
    MissStatement Posts: 92 Member
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    I'll take my chances thank you.

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70295-X/abstract

    "Flu Vaccines Prevent the Flu in Only 1.5% of Adults

    A new study in The Lancet Infectious Diseases reveals that the flu vaccine prevents lab confirmed type A or type B influenza in only 1.5 out of every 100 vaccinated adults … but the media is reporting this to mean "60 percent effective."

    It is estimated that, annually, only about 2.7% of adults get type A or type B influenza in the first place. The study showed that the use of flu vaccines appear to drop this down to about 1.2%. This is a roughly 60% drop, but that ignores the fact that the vaccine has no protective health benefit for 97.5% of adults.

    The researchers' own conclusions are also somewhat more lackluster in their tone than the media would have you believe:

    "Influenza vaccines can provide moderate protection against virologically confirmed influenza, but such protection is greatly reduced or absent in some seasons. Evidence for protection in adults aged 65 years or older is lacking.""

    NaturalNews is not exactly unbiased, and they misinterpreted the actual study:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlipson/2013/02/04/how-effective-is-the-flu-shot/

    The findings from the abstract:

    We screened 5707 articles and identified 31 eligible studies (17 randomised controlled trials and 14 observational studies). Efficacy of TIV was shown in eight (67%) of the 12 seasons analysed in ten randomised controlled trials (pooled efficacy 59% [95% CI 51—67] in adults aged 18—65 years). No such trials met inclusion criteria for children aged 2—17 years or adults aged 65 years or older. Efficacy of LAIV was shown in nine (75%) of the 12 seasons analysed in ten randomised controlled trials (pooled efficacy 83% [69—91]) in children aged 6 months to 7 years. No such trials met inclusion criteria for children aged 8—17 years. Vaccine effectiveness was variable for seasonal influenza: six (35%) of 17 analyses in nine studies showed significant protection against medically attended influenza in the outpatient or inpatient setting. Median monovalent pandemic H1N1 vaccine effectiveness in five observational studies was 69% (range 60—93).
    This doesn't disprove what I originally posted. It still shows a sucky effectiveness. You also forgot the last part;

    "Influenza vaccines can provide moderate protection against virologically confirmed influenza, but such protection is greatly reduced or absent in some seasons. Evidence for protection in adults aged 65 years or older is lacking. LAIVs consistently show highest efficacy in young children (aged 6 months to 7 years). New vaccines with improved clinical efficacy and effectiveness are needed to further reduce influenza-related morbidity and mortality."

    You originally posted that 1.5% bull**** statistic, when the true efficacy is around 59% depending on the year. I agree that is "moderate" protection from the flu, and that vaccines can be improved, but that's a far cry from your suggestion that only 1.5% of the population is protected by the shot. That is simply false.

    As to the sentence "Evidence for protection in adults age 65 is lacking." Do you want to hazard a guess as to why? Never mind, I'll tell you. It's because the researchers could not find any randomized controlled studies on populations 65 and older, because giving a person age 65 years or older a placebo, which is against generally accepted medical advice, IS UNETHICAL. They didn't find any evidence because you can't develop a study that won't put a senior in possible harm's way.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/10/28/141800408/analysis-questions-flu-shot-effectiveness
  • gabbygirl78
    gabbygirl78 Posts: 936 Member
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    Do you know when you get the flu shot they are actually injecting the virus into you, and you get sick.
    Everybody in my family got it, except me. Once you get it you always have to. They all get the flu, I
    only get the flu like once every 5 years. People should let their bodies fight viruses off naturally, not
    depend on shots.

    thats-enough-internet-for-today.gif


    Love this

    :huh: I'm with the cat on this one..... advice from a health care professional... educate yourself before spouting off what are obviously your own uneducated thoughts :noway:
  • gonnamakeanewaccount
    gonnamakeanewaccount Posts: 642 Member
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    I haven't read any of the above posts, but I am completely against the flu shot. I've gotten the flu each and every time I got the shot. No, I'm not talking about flu-like symptoms for maybe one or two days, I'm talking about the full-blown flu, fever and all for about a week or so.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    You're all mostly Americans, huh? While I'm definitely an advocate of vaccinations for children against serious diseases (MMR specifically), I really had no idea that it was the 'done' thing in the US for normal adults to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. In the UK, only certain at risk groups receive this vaccination, for example, the elderly, front line health care workers and the immune-suppressed. I don't think I've ever had the flu either. My flatmate had it last winter though and although he was bedridden for half a week, he got over it and I honestly had no idea that this was something people felt the need to be vaccinated against!
    It isn't required for the general public, but it's offered.
  • whierd
    whierd Posts: 14,025 Member
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    I haven't read any of the above posts, but I am completely against the flu shot. I've gotten the flu each and every time I got the shot. No, I'm not talking about flu-like symptoms for maybe one or two days, I'm talking about the full-blown flu, fever and all for about a week or so.

    I will make sure you burn for this.
  • srpm
    srpm Posts: 275 Member
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    There are pros and cons to all vaccinations, personally I am of the opinion that the only way herd immunity works is if the majority of the herd is vaccinated. This wouldn't be a big deal except there are lots of people who CAN'T be vaccinated for various reasons, and those are usually the people who most need to be protected against the types of diseases that we are vaccinated against. Therefore, even though the flu probably won't kill me, and I hate getting shots, every year I roll up my sleeve and deal with it so that if I happen to come in contact with someone who is immuno-suppressed for whatever reason I won't be the person who gives them the flu causing them to get even more sick. I fully intend to take the same approach with my own children, I may or may not use a modified/alternate vaccination schedule (I haven't done enough research on them yet to make that decision, I don't have kids yet either so I don't need to know what I'm going to do!) but my children will be fully vaccinated before they reach an age where they could expose others and make them very sick.


    Herd immunity (or community immunity) describes a form of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.[1] Herd immunity theory proposes that, in contagious diseases that are transmitted from individual to individual, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted when large numbers of a population are immune or less susceptible to the disease. The greater the proportion of individuals who are resistant, the smaller the probability that a susceptible individual will come into contact with an infectious individual.[2] (Wikipedia)
  • Talako
    Talako Posts: 79 Member
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    Fact: 100% of people who get vaccines die. SCIENCE! :wink:

    This is the same reason I don't eat carrots. Every single person that ate carrots in 1873 is now dead. Every single one of them.

    I'm not taking any chances, so I just say no to carrots.
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
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    You really think Big Farma and the FDA has everyone's best interests at hear?

    I don't give a crap who makes money but when there's kickbacks going around to the pharmaceutical companies for writing out prescriptions that aren't needed then I have a problem with that. When the FDA approves drugs, puts them on the market and has a whole list of side effects -- 'FATAL EVENTS MAY OCCUR' -- then yes, I have a problem with it.

    One should not die, get cancer, TB, or any other disease because they took a medication to stop a disease.
    At least there's someone else with common sense in here.

    Oh goodie, what's a post about disease treatment/prevention without some good fear mongering thrown in?

    Oh goodie! What's a post about disease treatment/prevention without someone going back to the beginning and reading what was originally posted and what perpetuated the above comments.

    And as for the fear mongering: Really? You honestly have never actually listened to an ad for some sort of medication and heard the list of side effects that you need to watch out for? My favorite one being the "fatal events" that may occur.

    Have you seriously never read the pamphlet that has come with ANY prescription you have ever received (including your birth control)? By law, every and any possible side effect MUST be listed. You can thank the FDA for that. I can only think you have NOT ever read a pamphlet of side effects, if you have this kind of a reaction to these ads.
  • Holly_Roman_Empire
    Holly_Roman_Empire Posts: 4,440 Member
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    There are pros and cons to all vaccinations, personally I am of the opinion that the only way herd immunity works is if the majority of the herd is vaccinated. This wouldn't be a big deal except there are lots of people who CAN'T be vaccinated for various reasons, and those are usually the people who most need to be protected against the types of diseases that we are vaccinated against. Therefore, even though the flu probably won't kill me, and I hate getting shots, every year I roll up my sleeve and deal with it so that if I happen to come in contact with someone who is immuno-suppressed for whatever reason I won't be the person who gives them the flu causing them to get even more sick. I fully intend to take the same approach with my own children, I may or may not use a modified/alternate vaccination schedule (I haven't done enough research on them yet to make that decision, I don't have kids yet either so I don't need to know what I'm going to do!) but my children will be fully vaccinated before they reach an age where they could expose others and make them very sick.


    Herd immunity (or community immunity) describes a form of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.[1] Herd immunity theory proposes that, in contagious diseases that are transmitted from individual to individual, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted when large numbers of a population are immune or less susceptible to the disease. The greater the proportion of individuals who are resistant, the smaller the probability that a susceptible individual will come into contact with an infectious individual.[2] (Wikipedia)

    You're my hero. :-D
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    Have you seriously never read the pamphlet that has come with ANY prescription you have ever received (including your birth control)? By law, every and any possible side effect MUST be listed. You can thank the FDA for that. I can only think you have NOT ever read a pamphlet of side effects, if you have this kind of a reaction to these ads.

    Exactly. If only one person experiences a side effect -- out of millions, even -- it has to be listed.
  • littlenature
    littlenature Posts: 46
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    You're all mostly Americans, huh? While I'm definitely an advocate of vaccinations for children against serious diseases (MMR specifically), I really had no idea that it was the 'done' thing in the US for normal adults to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. In the UK, only certain at risk groups receive this vaccination, for example, the elderly, front line health care workers and the immune-suppressed. I don't think I've ever had the flu either. My flatmate had it last winter though and although he was bedridden for half a week, he got over it and I honestly had no idea that this was something people felt the need to be vaccinated against!
    It isn't required for the general public, but it's offered.

    Going by this thread (which I know isn't necessarily a reflection of the average American), it seems as though most people choose to get it though, would you say that's true? That it's a normal thing for a healthy adult to get the flu vaccination? This is just really interesting to me!
  • lorigem
    lorigem Posts: 446 Member
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    You're all mostly Americans, huh? While I'm definitely an advocate of vaccinations for children against serious diseases (MMR specifically), I really had no idea that it was the 'done' thing in the US for normal adults to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. In the UK, only certain at risk groups receive this vaccination, for example, the elderly, front line health care workers and the immune-suppressed. I don't think I've ever had the flu either. My flatmate had it last winter though and although he was bedridden for half a week, he got over it and I honestly had no idea that this was something people felt the need to be vaccinated against!
    It isn't required for the general public, but it's offered.

    And some generally look at you funny if you don't get the shot. When people find out I don't get the shot here, they actually say I'm selfish to not do so. :huh:
  • richardheath
    richardheath Posts: 1,276 Member
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    You really think Big Farma and the FDA has everyone's best interests at hear?

    I don't give a crap who makes money but when there's kickbacks going around to the pharmaceutical companies for writing out prescriptions that aren't needed then I have a problem with that. When the FDA approves drugs, puts them on the market and has a whole list of side effects -- 'FATAL EVENTS MAY OCCUR' -- then yes, I have a problem with it.

    One should not die, get cancer, TB, or any other disease because they took a medication to stop a disease.
    At least there's someone else with common sense in here.

    Oh goodie, what's a post about disease treatment/prevention without some good fear mongering thrown in?

    Right. Those are potential side effects for a specific treatment for a specific disease (rheumatoid arthritis) with a new type of therapy. Basically, you are trying to stop your own immune system from attacking yourself (which can lead to RA), so yes, it's not a surprise that there may be some side effects on the immune system itself.

    As a biomedical researcher, I would love to be able to make drugs to treat every possible human condition that had zero side effects. Unfortunately, given our current level of knowledge, that simply isn't possible. So, we list all the possible side effects (and the FDA ensures that these records are kept before a drug is released and after) and try to let people along with their doctor make informed decisions by weighing the risks with the benefits.

    This goes for vaccines too. Unfortunately, people like Jenny McCarthy have been very successful at getting a lot of mis-information out there. You can't make an informed decision if you give equal weight to her lies as you do to actual scientific knowledge.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    You're all mostly Americans, huh? While I'm definitely an advocate of vaccinations for children against serious diseases (MMR specifically), I really had no idea that it was the 'done' thing in the US for normal adults to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. In the UK, only certain at risk groups receive this vaccination, for example, the elderly, front line health care workers and the immune-suppressed. I don't think I've ever had the flu either. My flatmate had it last winter though and although he was bedridden for half a week, he got over it and I honestly had no idea that this was something people felt the need to be vaccinated against!
    It isn't required for the general public, but it's offered.

    Going by this thread (which I know isn't necessarily a reflection of the average American), it seems as though most people choose to get it though, would you say that's true? That it's a normal thing for a healthy adult to get the flu vaccination? This is just really interesting to me!
    It's very common, yes.

    So common, you can walk into pretty much any grocery store and get one for a very low price.
  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
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    Fact: 100% of people who get vaccines die. SCIENCE! :wink:

    This is the same reason I don't eat carrots. Every single person that ate carrots in 1873 is now dead. Every single one of them.

    I'm not taking any chances, so I just say no to carrots.

    youre right and every single person in that year who drank water is dead even the ones who lived in Okinawa!! holy crap we are doomed.
  • Holly_Roman_Empire
    Holly_Roman_Empire Posts: 4,440 Member
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    You're all mostly Americans, huh? While I'm definitely an advocate of vaccinations for children against serious diseases (MMR specifically), I really had no idea that it was the 'done' thing in the US for normal adults to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. In the UK, only certain at risk groups receive this vaccination, for example, the elderly, front line health care workers and the immune-suppressed. I don't think I've ever had the flu either. My flatmate had it last winter though and although he was bedridden for half a week, he got over it and I honestly had no idea that this was something people felt the need to be vaccinated against!
    It isn't required for the general public, but it's offered.

    Going by this thread (which I know isn't necessarily a reflection of the average American), it seems as though most people choose to get it though, would you say that's true? That it's a normal thing for a healthy adult to get the flu vaccination? This is just really interesting to me!

    Yes, healthy people get the vaccine. As a side note, there are many places of business that require their employees to get the flu vaccine, namely day cares, schools, healthcare facilities, and the military.
  • littlenature
    littlenature Posts: 46
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    Also, in the UK, getting chickenpox is seen as a rite of passage in childhood! The chickenpox vaccination isn't part of the normal vaccine schedule. Again, I didn't know that it was in the US! Learn something new everyday!
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    Also, in the UK, getting chickenpox is seen as a rite of passage in childhood! The chickenpox vaccination isn't part of the normal vaccine schedule. Again, I didn't know that it was in the US! Learn something new everyday!
    That started being required for school 10-15 yeas ago.

    My daughter is 19 and it came out after she was born and wasn't required until a couple years after she started kindergarten. But she'd already had the pox, so she didn't get the vaccine.
  • Holly_Roman_Empire
    Holly_Roman_Empire Posts: 4,440 Member
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    You're all mostly Americans, huh? While I'm definitely an advocate of vaccinations for children against serious diseases (MMR specifically), I really had no idea that it was the 'done' thing in the US for normal adults to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. In the UK, only certain at risk groups receive this vaccination, for example, the elderly, front line health care workers and the immune-suppressed. I don't think I've ever had the flu either. My flatmate had it last winter though and although he was bedridden for half a week, he got over it and I honestly had no idea that this was something people felt the need to be vaccinated against!
    It isn't required for the general public, but it's offered.

    And some generally look at you funny if you don't get the shot. When people find out I don't get the shot here, they actually say I'm selfish to not do so. :huh:

    It is your choice, of course. People get to choose what they put in their bodies, for the most part. I guess I'm just too altruistic in thinking that if getting the vaccine for myself, I might be able to prevent spreading the flu to someone who does not have the immune system to handle it.
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