Clean Eating Bashing?

I'd like to think my BF% has gone down along my road to fit and it wasn't a chore doing so. If a certain eating style fits you, fine. But I'll keep being dirty and healthy. Okay, I'll bathe on occasion, too.. just to be a little cleaner.

Avoiding saturated fat is another myth, as there are plenty of heart healthy saturated fats (butter and coconut oil for example.)

There are many nutrition experts and scientists (I would guess most) that would disagree that butter should be considered a healthy fat.

True...there are many who are still influenced by the lipid hypothesis. These same people once espoused margarine as a preferable alternative to butter...and they pushed the low-fat approach to dieting. Not every expert keeps up with the latest research. That doesn't mean they are right.

(Personally, I'm firmly in the "butter is healthy" camp.)

Many still say margarine is preferable to butter, if the margarine contains no partially hydrogenated oils. Though most would likely recommend using less of both. To be an expert, one would have to keep up with the latest research.

I find there is too much bias, ignorance, and propaganda to believe anyone who claims to be an expert on food science. Butter is awesome, but margarine is cheaper, so I use both for different reasons. Screw all the "experts!" :laugh:

I notice when i eat more processesed.foods.i feel like ****. I like a balance. My diet is prob 70/30 clean vs not. I love using whole.ingredients and cooking my own food. But i still like my breads n pastas and i work it in.

Holy crap, I absolutely did first learn about vitamins from the backs of my Captain Crunchberry boxes. That, along with the Flintstone vitamins is where all of my original micronutrient programming came from. I never thought about it in those terms.

For me, I eat clean because I've eaten at a deficit using processed foods and have eaten at a deficit eating more whole foods and I simply feel more energetic, get sick less often, and have less gastrointestinal problems when I eat cleaner. The issue is not about weight loss for me, it's about overall well-being.

Has anyone ever tried both and noticed no difference in how they feel? I'm just curious. I'm open to the possibility that my experience is not yours. :flowerforyou:

I kept the part most relevant to my experience and findings. I've been on both sides. In my younger days I ate anything and everything. Fast food, junk food, processed food, even some normal "healthy" food. While yes I was lean, could bench press a house and was in shape...my energy levels were low, my digestive system an utter disaster, and would badly want a nap every day after lunch. Fast forward many years and the shift to eating a predominantly "clean" diet comprised mostly of whole foods, with the occasional ice cream, or other sweet treat and my energy levels are high and constant, no crashing mid afternoon and my digestive system does not cause me any issues or discomfort at all. The change in my energy and the way I feel is all the proof I need to continue to eat the way I do.

Obviously, from a health standpoint, nutrient dense foods will do a better job at helping you meet your nutritional needs.

Except that the term "nutrient dense" as used is so detached from what it actually means that it is practically backwards.

Cookies are nutrient dense.
Vegetables are extremely sparse nutritionally.

People so worship at the alter of micronutrients, downright pointlessly I might add, and so demonize macronutrients, that discussion of nutrients is nonsensical. One would survive FAR longer on a diet of pure cookies than a diet of pure broccoli.

Eat a variety of foods and micronutrients aren't a concern. Nutrient deficiencies are rare in those without a very limited diet (with the exception of pregnant women).

I agree.
Maybe I wasn't very clear. When I think of "nutrient dense" foods, I think of foods that pack a variety of macro and micro nutrients. I didn't mean to imply that lettuce was more nutrient dense or necessarily better for you than a cookie, and I certainly don't demonize macronutrients.

Besides, I like cookies.

For me, I eat clean because I've eaten at a deficit using processed foods and have eaten at a deficit eating more whole foods and I simply feel more energetic, get sick less often, and have less gastrointestinal problems when I eat cleaner. The issue is not about weight loss for me, it's about overall well-being.

Has anyone ever tried both and noticed no difference in how they feel? I'm just curious. I'm open to the possibility that my experience is not yours. :flowerforyou:

I kept the part most relevant to my experience and findings. I've been on both sides. In my younger days I ate anything and everything. Fast food, junk food, processed food, even some normal "healthy" food. While yes I was lean, could bench press a house and was in shape...my energy levels were low, my digestive system an utter disaster, and would badly want a nap every day after lunch. Fast forward many years and the shift to eating a predominantly "clean" diet comprised mostly of whole foods, with the occasional ice cream, or other sweet treat and my energy levels are high and constant, no crashing mid afternoon and my digestive system does not cause me any issues or discomfort at all. The change in my energy and the way I feel is all the proof I need to continue to eat the way I do.

This has been my experience as well...

Clean eating doesn't mean much to me. How does it differ from eating whole-foods? Genuine question by the way!

PS apologies for butting in without reading the whole thread, but it's very loooong

In to hear more about these elusive standards of health that can't be objectively measured . . .

Because human beings are such simple systems that everything can be objectively assessed...

Part of the issue is that "eat clean" is in itself a meaningless statement. At what point does that become "only eat things one has picked from the bushes oneself", or "only eat meat one has personally slaughtered and dressed".

There are second and third order considerations around how food is processed prior to reaching the consumer. Personally I try to avoid meat that isn't free range as I'm very aware of the animal welfare aspects. Grew up in a rural area and around farm animals. It also tastes far better, and it seems to be a bit leaner.

As far as wellbeing is concerned there are lots of intangibles, although causality =/= causation. If one is more sensitive to the food chain does that make one more thoughtful about what one eats, how it's prepared and what is the effect of that on what one consumes? What's the psychological effect of actually taking the time to prepare food. Personally I find cooking quite therapeutic, it's something I revert to when I'm stressed as the process of preparation helps me relax. How does one quanitfy all of that?

Moving on to actually growing food, again what's the effect of that process, since we make choices about our time what are we choosing not to do as we're spending time on that?

Whilst anecdote is not evidence, much of the evidence is quite narrow and there isn't a significant amount that looks at the whole system.

Essentially it's all about choices, and if some find that their lifestyle becomes improved as a result of their choices then that's a good thing. Of course "improved" remains undefined and is very much a subjective thing as well.

What?

Just because I don't "eat clean" doesn't mean I don't put effort into my meals or grab a box of twinkles or fast food. The vast majority of food I make is from scratch because I enjoy cooking, I enjoy the prep. When I make lemon meringue pie, I make everything from scratch, including squeezing the lemons. I make my own pasta and sauce. It takes hours. Not exactly lazy.
It's not about effort.


ETA - the arrogance of that post floors me.

I'm not sure why you are associating home cooked meals with my comments, which only referenced junk food and fast food. It sounds like you are trying very hard to be offended.