Santa!?!?! I hate the lie!
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Who gives a f*@k???? Each to their own. Do what you want to do.
If this is the correct approach for everyone, then the MFP forums are no longer needed and should be shut down.0 -
SOOOO... should we start burning all fiction and stop seeing fictional movies and put these kids to work? darn that sponge bob!!!! :devil:
Spongebob is awesome!
So is Santa. :flowerforyou:0 -
There's no place like home! There's no place like home!!! :huh:0
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If your parents got divorced and you were told "Your father died....that's why he's not here." That would be a lie. How a parent explains the divorce based on adultery is going to vary, but a child can understand unfaithfulness without being given inappropriate details.
I will never agree with that!Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.
My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.
You are in for a tough road ahead then.
Nope, not so tough. My kids are nearly grown, and have told us that they love the fact that they can know that we will always be honest with them. I feel sorry for kids whose parents lie to them for their own convenience. Screw that.
Our teens have an open and honest relationship. Since we have always been honest with them, they are free now to be honest with us, even on tough issues like sex/drugs. Being a liar is no good for long term relationships.
Let's be clear, I said protecting children from the truth isn't necessarily lying.
Let me ask you this....
If your parents would have gotten divorced when you were 3 years old cause your dad banged his secretary, and you asked your mother why they got divorced. Would you expect them to tell you "Because daddy banged the secretary?"
If you tell your child about the historical origin of Santa, that would be truthful. If you tell him Santa is going to show up on a flying sleigh and slide down your chimney, etc, that would not be the truth.
Why do I feel that you already know this?
I do know what you are saying, and agree, however, the first is still a lie in my opinion. My annoyance comes in when someone starts laying out blanket statements about "You always have to tell the truth" to your children. "Never lie!!!". Omitting truths is still lying.
I disagree. There are times when we simply tell our kids, "It's none of your business." In this way, we don't have to make up a lie.0 -
who believes in Santa etc past early childhood though?
Who ****ing cares? It's a myth, a story, enjoy the **** out of it or shut the **** up.
I have spoken.0 -
OP if you don't want to do Santa with your kids don't do it. But please be considerate of other families who incorporate it into the "magic" of Christmas. I am telling my 3 year old that some people believe in Santa and some don't. I hope that will help him when/if non Santa kids try to tell him there is no Santa.
There isn't a right or wrong way to celebrate Christmas. Whatever works for your family is fine. Just enjoy your traditions and try to understand that others might be different.0 -
So true! My kids understand and appreciate Christmas, whereas the ones that get told the Santa lie, end up believing that Christmas is all about presents.
False. I grew up with "the lie", as OP so dramatically puts it, and I was ALWAYS just as excited to give the presents I painstaking picked out and paid for with my own money to my brothers and sisters than I was about Santa's presents. I can't ever remember a time not feeling that way.
Selfish brat kids are a product of overly permissive parenting that encourages unreasonable senses of entitlement, not Santa.0 -
I hate to be Debbie Downer here, but most of the same people who are saying its silly to believe in Santa are the ones who are praying to someone in church each week. ?!?!
Let your kids be little. Have them believe in God, Santa, the Tooth Fairy, they are all the same. Kids need those things as a safety blanket when they're small. They need to know there is more out there than just our crazy world.....Then when they're older, they'll figure it out on their own.0 -
My parents never promoted santa... and my brother and I never believed in him. We didn't miss out on anything for it.0
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I find that learning from others experiences a great way to help navigate this thing we call life. At no point have I said it is wrong for others to indulge n this lie.
I have a 19-year-old college sophomore daughter. She and her friends grew up with Santa. They are the sweetest, most giving, unselfish children I know.
Is that so?Tell him the truth. My mom did, and I learned to appreciate Christmas for the family time and spirit of generosity. I'm going to do the same for mine.
So true! My kids understand and appreciate Christmas, whereas the ones that get told the Santa lie, end up believing that Christmas is all about presents.
That has been my observations over the years. My kids are now observing the same with their classmates in high school.
Gimme, gimme, mine, mine...
LOL Just as one day of eating at Thanksgiving did not make anyone on MFP fat, one day of gift giving by Santa did not make any child self-centered and greedy. It is more in the day to day parenting that is done in homes to produce such children.
Stop it. That makes too much sense.
Sounds like you know a lot of kids with bad parents.
Oh, I don't doubt that. TBH, much of my ranting has just be reacting to idiotic attacks on the OP. When people get like that, I give them a taste of their own medicine. They never like it. :laugh:
The OP can, obviously, do what she wants. I just find this whole debate very sad. Equating letting kids believe in something like Santa to lynig makes me sad.
When I was little, I really and truly believed there was a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow and that unicorns existed. Sometimes, I still believe those things. I see Santa as something similar. Is it really a lie?
And then I see so many adults with no sense of humor or adventure or ... I don't know. Something is lacking. And I didn't know until recent years that there were families who celebrated Christmas and didn't allow Santa in their homes, but now I do and it explains a lot.
Obviously, it isn't about Santa specifically, since non-Christians for the most part wouldn't have used that. Half my family is Jewish, so I really do know this. It's the idea of stomping on that innocent wonder and belief that bothers me and it makes me want to cry.
So do you also teach your kids that Superheros are real? That there really is a Spiderman? Why or why not?
I just don't understand why it's so important to other people that some of us choose NOT to perpetuate the Santa Myth.
Why is it so important to you (and the OP) that some people do?0 -
I find it hard to believe that adults continue to confuse the date that a religious holiday is celebrated with some association to an actual historical date. Christmas falls in December on the Liturgical calendar (Catholic and many Christian faiths) because that was the date it was decided to celebrate the birth of the Savior (note on the Greek Orthodox calendar it is early January). This is the same reason for Easter in the spring, or the Epiphany or the Ascension. To use the fact that a liturgical date (Christian or otherwise) doesn't coincide with some historical determination of an actual date as a reason to question someone's religious beliefs is misguided at best.0
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I told my kids that Santa is real, and as they got older they asked me again, and I said yes, I believe in him. I said he may not fly around in a sleigh with reindeer, but he does exist..... IN US! what is so wrong with having a little magic and believe in something, especially this time of year and when there is so much ugly going on in the world. It is all what you make of it.
My 16 year daughter still believe in the magic of Christmas and Santa and Christ.0 -
Fairy tales are more than true- not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten. - G. K. Chesterton0
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I hate to be Debbie Downer here, but most of the same people who are saying its silly to believe in Santa are the ones who are praying to someone in church each week. ?!?!
Let your kids be little. Have them believe in God, Santa, the Tooth Fairy, they are all the same. Kids need those things as a safety blanket when they're small. They need to know there is more out there than just our crazy world.....Then when they're older, they'll figure it out on their own.
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If you are God, then you can decide what is okay and what is not okay. For all of us.What this really boils down to is how you teach your children about life. Is it ok to lie to anyone, no, absolutely not. But lets face it, we all do it to some degree every day. If you say you don't, then that is a lie in itself.
I disagree. There are lots of situations where it's not only okay to lie, but you could argue that it's the ethical thing to do.
You're living in Germany in the 1940s and there's a Jewish family living in your basement, in secret. The Gestapo knock on your door and ask you if you know of any Jews that are hiding anywhere. So you're going to tell them the truth....? Or you're going to claim that the ethical thing to do is tell the truth....? No, the ethical thing to do in this situation is to lie.
And there are a lot of comparatively minor situations where lying to save someone's feelings has no long term consequences, but telling the truth would hurt their feelings and do a lot more damage than the little white lie.
There are of course many, many situations where it's wrong to lie and they're certainly more common than situations where it's better to lie. But my point is that your statement that it's absolutely not okay to lie, is incorrect.
Seriously....? No-one's allowed to make ethical decisions except God? how do you function in your day to day life then? You're not allowed to decide for yourself in any situation what the right or wrong thing to do is? What about if you're that person in 1940s Germany? You stand there while the Gestapo are on the doorstep praying for God to give you a sign as to whether it's okay to lie to them? Or what?? How do you function like that?0 -
I can't believe this thread has gone on for so many pages.....
I thought it would go to 2 max!
Well a lot of people are very upset about your Santa beliefs. Maybe Santa should be added to religion in the ToS. People are acting like their entire holiday is crushed because someone on the internet disagrees.0 -
Fairy tales are more than true- not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten. - G. K. Chesterton
^^Love this!0 -
If you don't want to share the idea of Santa wiht your kids, fine. That's your business. But don't fool yourself into thinkng you are a better person for it. Or a better parent.
And don't you dare have your little non santa belivin' kids spread the word to my kids who DO believe.0 -
Cinderella, Snow White and Ariel.
Down with the lie.
Stop the madness and close down Disneyland!0 -
We're atheist, so we don't teach our kids that any gods are real.
Because, you know, Santa fits the definition of a god. As does the easter bunny, and tooth fairy.
We don't do any of the lies, not Santa, easter bunny, various religions, none of it.
I've told her the tooth fairy isn't real, either. I still leave money for her under her pillow, and she knows I am the one who does it, but we like to pretend that I am the tooth fairy.
My parents are atheists. They told me about Santa and the tooth fairy. They even told me the tooth fairy uses the teeth to make little tiny fairy piano keys. They didn't do the Easter bunny though. No idea what they had against the Easter bunny.
I don't think those kinds of things harm kids, and I wouldn't put them in the same category as gods either. No-one worships Santa or the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy. But people worship Thor and Odin.
The might not worship, but they believe in it. For Santa, he has supernatural powers to travel the entire globe, know where you are, know if you've been a good person, and passes judgement on you. His likeness is easily recognized, we sing songs about his greatness, we write letters to him begging for favor, we decorate with his image.
Sounds like a god to me.
As for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, they would be lesser gods, for sure. They are still anticipated, and dispense favors to those who believe in them.
who believes in Santa etc past early childhood though? religious people believe in their gods their whole life, or if they stop believing in them, they lose their faith. When a religious person teaches their children about the god they worship, they do it from a place of sincere belief. When parents (of any faith or none) tell their children about Santa etc, they know it's not real, they're doing it out of wanting their kid to have a bit of fun and something to be excited about. For something to be a bona fide religion and for the imaginary people to count as gods, then the adults in the culture have to sincerely believe in them too. Otherwise all kinds of fictional characters and made up people could be counted as gods.
If you change your perception slightly, you'll see exactly where I am coming from. Not all religious persons really believe their faith... if they did, many faiths would be abandoned based on the horrible teachings contained within their texts (meaning, people cherry-pick for a reason). When parents tell their children about Santa, they are telling a story they know is not true, which inspires awe and wonder in the child, only to have that child eventually realize they were lied to. This instance is very much what it is like to lose your religion. Rather than base our society on myths, it would be so much better to base it on the idea that *people* are the reason that our holidays are special. It would be better for *people* to take accountability for the children of the world to be cared for. Once you realize why you don't believe in any other religion other than your own, you will realize you believe those other religions are fake... made up.. fictional characters... and you will start to think about whether your own is, as well.
I don't have a problem with fairy tales... but I have a huge problem with people being made to believe, by people they trust, that those fairy tales are true.0 -
Who gives a f*@k???? Each to their own. Do what you want to do.
QFT
Stop attacking people for their beliefs, and we won't feel the need to attack back in defense of our choices!
LOL. What the pro-santa people have been saying is that Santa is good for the imagination and that it's fun fairytale and to lighten up a bit.
What you have been saying is this:
1. Parents who let their kids believe in Santa are liars and inherently dishonest.
2. Children who celebrate with Santa are bound to be selfish, spoiled brats who only want gifts.
And I'm not even going to get into your marriage insinuation which was insulting, rude and completely uncalled for.
What sounds more like an attack to you?0 -
I don't teach one way or the other. I let my daughter (and my parents let me) believe as we would. If she believes Spiderman is real, who am I to burst her bubble?The OP can, obviously, do what she wants. I just find this whole debate very sad. Equating letting kids believe in something like Santa to lynig makes me sad.
When I was little, I really and truly believed there was a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow and that unicorns existed. Sometimes, I still believe those things. I see Santa as something similar. Is it really a lie?
And then I see so many adults with no sense of humor or adventure or ... I don't know. Something is lacking. And I didn't know until recent years that there were families who celebrated Christmas and didn't allow Santa in their homes, but now I do and it explains a lot.
Obviously, it isn't about Santa specifically, since non-Christians for the most part wouldn't have used that. Half my family is Jewish, so I really do know this. It's the idea of stomping on that innocent wonder and belief that bothers me and it makes me want to cry.
So do you also teach your kids that Superheros are real? That there really is a Spiderman? Why or why not?
I just don't understand why it's so important to other people that some of us choose NOT to perpetuate the Santa Myth.
No one ever did that to me and I'm grateful they didn't. To this day, I recognize that the universe is vast and there are many things that my tiny mind cannot and will not ever comprehend. For all we know, there is an alternate universe somewhere that these things do exist. Or maybe there is a veil in this world where they exist and we can't see them.
Or maybe not. Does it matter? As long as the kid isn't doing anything harmful due to such a belief, why take that away?0 -
*reads more of thread*
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So my oldest is 3 and asked me about Santa and Christmas. I told him the basic crap that everyone spews and I hate myself for it! Wh does he need to believe in Santa just to have it crushed later in life? Why set them up for disappointment later in life. Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?
Thoughts please.
I never told my daughter that lie. I don't know about your religious background, but I'm a Christain. Christmas is about the birth of the Christ and nothing more. That was what my daughter was taught. I didn't do the Easter bunny or Tooth Fairy either, by the way.0 -
I'm not trying to be judgmental. The Santa Myth is one of my biggest pet peeves. In this, I am the "Annoying Atheist." Sorry.
Really? Why don't you go re-read some of your posts when you step down off your ivory tower.
Do atheists live in ivory towers?0 -
I enjoy it. I like seeing my 4 year old get excited about the magic of Christmas. She's got the rest of her life to grow up and realize how much life can suck. I like letting my kid be a kid.
Exactly. When I was a kid, I had classmates who went around saying that their parents told them that Santa wasn't real. Even though I was beginning to have my suspicions at that time (my mom and Santa had the same handwriting... what are the odds?), I felt a little sad for them that they weren't getting to have the fun and experience the magic like the other kids.
I'm not saying that Santa is necessary in order to enjoy Christmas, but to me, that was part of the fun of Christmas as a kid. I knew what it was really about, but Santa just made it more special.0 -
This is exactly what I am talking about. To me, Christmas is meaningless if the only thing that matters is getting presents.
So just call it Thanksgiving and be done.
Why? Why not let Christmas be about love?0 -
I avoided that one.. Never had to tell my kids one way or the other about Santa being real or a lie.
my oldest son came to me at 3yrs old, after preschool one day (in December) and says something like..."You know that big guy in red that brings presents?" ME: "Santa??" Son:"Ya, Santa.... well, don't believe it mom, it's a lie."
I asked why he thought Santa wasn't real and he said something about it being too silly and ridiculous then asked why so many kids fall for it.. I made sure he knew that it was the parents job to let their child know about Santa's reality when the parent thought the child was ready and to NOT EVER tell any of the kids it's a lie, that would make the kid and their mom very sad.
My middle son cried and got mad when I said something about the tooth fairy giving him money for his first truth.."Mom,, why would you lie to me like that?? You know the Tooth Fairy isn't real!!!"
my poor youngest son was just a normal kid who thought those characters might be real and was confused for a few years.
(I was like my older two and never ever believed in any of the Holiday Characters either. No wonder I never had friends growing up)
That's awesome!0 -
OP has amazing lips. I would believe whatever lies come out of those.
The vitriol is somewhat unappealing, however.0 -
As a child, I thought Christmas was magical. As an adult, I was jealous of Santa getting the credit for my hard labor. LOL. My friend had an idea. She would allow one present to be labeled from Santa. The rest were from mom/dad, etc. If you would like to incorporate sunday school lessons, could teach about baby Jesus.0
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