Santa!?!?! I hate the lie!
Replies
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Thanksgiving is about love.This is exactly what I am talking about. To me, Christmas is meaningless if the only thing that matters is getting presents.
So just call it Thanksgiving and be done.
Why? Why not let Christmas be about love?
On Thanksgiving, you get together with the people you love, eat and are thankful for your life.
Without the traditions involved in Christmas (and it doesn't just have to be about presents, but that's part of the fun -- even if they're all homemade and cheap), then it's just Thanksgiving in December.0 -
I'm not trying to be judgmental. The Santa Myth is one of my biggest pet peeves. In this, I am the "Annoying Atheist." Sorry.
Really? Why don't you go re-read some of your posts when you step down off your ivory tower.
Do atheists live in ivory towers?
I'm an atheist. Don't lump your behavior with the rest of us lol. You have been nothing but aggressive and judgmental from the start. This has nothing to do with atheism and everything to do with your behavior.0 -
(And actually my statement, "If you are God, then you can decide what is okay and what is not okay. For all of us", sounds super strong, i know that....however it was stated without any sarcasm or snark on my part...just as a matter-of-fact.)
If you are God, then you can decide what is okay and what is not okay. For all of us.What this really boils down to is how you teach your children about life. Is it ok to lie to anyone, no, absolutely not. But lets face it, we all do it to some degree every day. If you say you don't, then that is a lie in itself.
I disagree. There are lots of situations where it's not only okay to lie, but you could argue that it's the ethical thing to do.
You're living in Germany in the 1940s and there's a Jewish family living in your basement, in secret. The Gestapo knock on your door and ask you if you know of any Jews that are hiding anywhere. So you're going to tell them the truth....? Or you're going to claim that the ethical thing to do is tell the truth....? No, the ethical thing to do in this situation is to lie.
And there are a lot of comparatively minor situations where lying to save someone's feelings has no long term consequences, but telling the truth would hurt their feelings and do a lot more damage than the little white lie.
There are of course many, many situations where it's wrong to lie and they're certainly more common than situations where it's better to lie. But my point is that your statement that it's absolutely not okay to lie, is incorrect.
Seriously....? No-one's allowed to make ethical decisions except God? how do you function in your day to day life then? You're not allowed to decide for yourself in any situation what the right or wrong thing to do is? What about if you're that person in 1940s Germany? You stand there while the Gestapo are on the doorstep praying for God to give you a sign as to whether it's okay to lie to them? Or what?? How do you function like that?
We make ethical decisions all the time (as in the case of whether it is okay to tell your child that Santa is real). But it's not up to you do decide for me whether it is right or wrong. You are not my God.0 -
So my oldest is 3 and asked me about Santa and Christmas. I told him the basic crap that everyone spews and I hate myself for it! Wh does he need to believe in Santa just to have it crushed later in life? Why set them up for disappointment later in life. Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?
Thoughts please.
Your poor kid...who pissed in your wheaties? I don't think kids are all that crushed later in life when they realize he's not real...my parents never let me believe in Santa for religious reasons and it still irks me that they didn't just let me be a kid and enjoy a harmless fairy-tail for those few short years when magic is actually real.
Personally, yeah...I think you suck.0 -
Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.
My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.
Another crock!
Love = honesty
Disagree! There are adult things that children should NOT be exposed to. I believe lying is at times necessary to protect them.
Protecting little ones is NOT the same as telling them lies. Don't be absurd.
Semantics! Lying by omission is still a lie and although we are friends I think you are being extremely judgmental, condescending and frankly you are being absurd.
I'm not trying to be judgmental. The Santa Myth is one of my biggest pet peeves. In this, I am the "Annoying Atheist." Sorry.
ETA: I was originally playing "White Knight" to the OP because everyone was crapping on her. I know how that feels.
But your "White Knighting" did come across as very condescending and judgemental...in the way you wrote it...so if you don't truly feel that way or as strongly and were simply just defending the OP...didn't you just lie to all of us? Santa may be a myth, but I have always used him along the lines of Christmas Spirit. My children donate time, energy and toys to others in need this time of year, and this year my oldest has spent time cleaning up after the tornado that rocked Washington, IL as we live in Pekin. To say that allowing them to believe in Santa turns them into greedy liars is a sweeping generalization that is just not true. If you truly believe that I'm sorry...if you don't truly believe it...implying it is a lie....and you did imply it with one of your earlier posts. :-(
Oh, I'm sure it did, just as all the a-holes going off on the OP came across as condescending and judgmental. That's kinda the point of why I went down that road. I know how it feels to have people judging me for how I choose to raise my kids. It sucks when the shoe gets put on the other foot, eh?0 -
As a child, I thought Christmas was magical. As an adult, I was jealous of Santa getting the credit for my hard labor. LOL. My friend had an idea. She would allow one present to be labeled from Santa. The rest were from mom/dad, etc. If you would like to incorporate sunday school lessons, could teach about baby Jesus.
This is how I do it. All the wrapped presents are from us, but I've always left one or 2 unwrapped from Santa.0 -
I will never agree with that!Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.
My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.
You are in for a tough road ahead then.
Nope, not so tough. My kids are nearly grown, and have told us that they love the fact that they can know that we will always be honest with them. I feel sorry for kids whose parents lie to them for their own convenience. Screw that.
Our teens have an open and honest relationship. Since we have always been honest with them, they are free now to be honest with us, even on tough issues like sex/drugs. Being a liar is no good for long term relationships.
Let's be clear, I said protecting children from the truth isn't necessarily lying.
Let me ask you this....
If your parents would have gotten divorced when you were 3 years old cause your dad banged his secretary, and you asked your mother why they got divorced. Would you expect them to tell you "Because daddy banged the secretary?"
lmao
My parents are still happily married, and my husband and I are still happily married. Maybe honesty has something to do with it? *shrugs*
That's the way to deflect the question...you got that nailed down.
You are asking me something for which I have zero experience. My parents never cheated. i have never cheated. My husband has never cheated. How am I supposed to respond to something like that?
Its called a hypothetical. Its how you test theories.
I skipped that class in school. *shrugs*0 -
Better check your FL twice for liars...wouldnt want to associate with them, now would you?I can't believe this thread has gone on for so many pages.....
I thought it would go to 2 max!
Well a lot of people are very upset about your Santa beliefs. Maybe Santa should be added to religion in the ToS. People are acting like their entire holiday is crushed because someone on the internet disagrees.0 -
I will never agree with that!Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.
My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.
You are in for a tough road ahead then.
Nope, not so tough. My kids are nearly grown, and have told us that they love the fact that they can know that we will always be honest with them. I feel sorry for kids whose parents lie to them for their own convenience. Screw that.
Our teens have an open and honest relationship. Since we have always been honest with them, they are free now to be honest with us, even on tough issues like sex/drugs. Being a liar is no good for long term relationships.
Let's be clear, I said protecting children from the truth isn't necessarily lying.
Let me ask you this....
If your parents would have gotten divorced when you were 3 years old cause your dad banged his secretary, and you asked your mother why they got divorced. Would you expect them to tell you "Because daddy banged the secretary?"
lmao
My parents are still happily married, and my husband and I are still happily married. Maybe honesty has something to do with it? *shrugs*
That's the way to deflect the question...you got that nailed down.
You are asking me something for which I have zero experience. My parents never cheated. i have never cheated. My husband has never cheated. How am I supposed to respond to something like that?
What if one of your parents did cheat, but chose not to tell you? What if you just don't know and they chose to protect you?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
I thank you all for expressing your opinions, you have given me many things to think about. I apologize that it became such a polarized discussion. This is a time of year for celebration love and understanding.
Enjoy your holiday celebrations and embrace the unique traditions tha make them special for you.:flowerforyou:0 -
I have a 19-year-old college sophomore daughter. She and her friends grew up with Santa. They are the sweetest, most giving, unselfish children I know.
Is that so?Tell him the truth. My mom did, and I learned to appreciate Christmas for the family time and spirit of generosity. I'm going to do the same for mine.
So true! My kids understand and appreciate Christmas, whereas the ones that get told the Santa lie, end up believing that Christmas is all about presents.
That has been my observations over the years. My kids are now observing the same with their classmates in high school.
Gimme, gimme, mine, mine...
LOL Just as one day of eating at Thanksgiving did not make anyone on MFP fat, one day of gift giving by Santa did not make any child self-centered and greedy. It is more in the day to day parenting that is done in homes to produce such children.
Stop it. That makes too much sense.
Sounds like you know a lot of kids with bad parents.
Oh, I don't doubt that. TBH, much of my ranting has just be reacting to idiotic attacks on the OP. When people get like that, I give them a taste of their own medicine. They never like it. :laugh:
The OP can, obviously, do what she wants. I just find this whole debate very sad. Equating letting kids believe in something like Santa to lynig makes me sad.
When I was little, I really and truly believed there was a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow and that unicorns existed. Sometimes, I still believe those things. I see Santa as something similar. Is it really a lie?
And then I see so many adults with no sense of humor or adventure or ... I don't know. Something is lacking. And I didn't know until recent years that there were families who celebrated Christmas and didn't allow Santa in their homes, but now I do and it explains a lot.
Obviously, it isn't about Santa specifically, since non-Christians for the most part wouldn't have used that. Half my family is Jewish, so I really do know this. It's the idea of stomping on that innocent wonder and belief that bothers me and it makes me want to cry.
So do you also teach your kids that Superheros are real? That there really is a Spiderman? Why or why not?
I just don't understand why it's so important to other people that some of us choose NOT to perpetuate the Santa Myth.
Why is it so important to you (and the OP) that some people do?
It isn't.
What is important to me is that people don't judge others. Feeling judged can be a good reminder as to why we shouldn't cast judgement.0 -
[/quote]
Easter is actuality pagan celibration of spring that was twisted by the church to help convert pagans. The same goes for Christmas it was a celibration of the days becoming longer again signaling winter wouldn't last for ever.
[/quote]
^ yup.
Either story is a lie really. I teach my children the truth, we don't celebrate them. We keep the biblical holy days. I don't see a reason to lie. Pretending is only pretending when the kids know it s not real, like playing house, they know its pretend lol! I do remember being devastated as a kid to find out the Easter bunny wasn't real. As an adult though its easy to understand why parents do it.0 -
If you don't want to share the idea of Santa wiht your kids, fine. That's your business. But don't fool yourself into thinkng you are a better person for it. Or a better parent.
And don't you dare have your little non santa belivin' kids spread the word to my kids who DO believe.
This is one of the many reasons we're friends :drinker:
I agree 100%...if people don't want to share Santa with their kids, that's their prerogative. But please don't have your kids ruin it for kids like ours who do believe (if mine don't, they haven't told me). Last year, Santa packed my daughter's iPod shuffle was packed up in multiple boxes. And my son's bike started out as a box with a ribbon in it that he had to follow to find it. My kids enjoy it & I want them to for as long as they can.
We're only kids once...admit it, as we grow, we lose most of that innocent wonder we had as munchkins. I don't see it as lying...I see it as protecting some of that imagination. When my kids eventually ask me about it, I will tell them that Santa, the man, isn't real. But Santa, the spirit is alive & well. And if some out there think that makes me a bad parent, may you get a stocking full of coal this year 0 -
As a child, I thought Christmas was magical. As an adult, I was jealous of Santa getting the credit for my hard labor.
I was just happy that my child was happy. I didn't need credit.
And eventually they realize you gave them those pesents and you get the credit later.0 -
SOOOO... should we start burning all fiction and stop seeing fictional movies and put these kids to work? darn that sponge bob!!!! :devil:
Spongebob is awesome!
So is Santa. :flowerforyou:
I love Santa, except the Rudolph story. I like "The Santa Clause" and "Elf" the best! :flowerforyou:0 -
I'm not trying to be judgmental. The Santa Myth is one of my biggest pet peeves. In this, I am the "Annoying Atheist." Sorry.
Really? Why don't you go re-read some of your posts when you step down off your ivory tower.
Do atheists live in ivory towers?
I'm an atheist. Don't lump your behavior with the rest of us lol. You have been nothing but aggressive and judgmental from the start. This has nothing to do with atheism and everything to do with your behavior.
I like you! :flowerforyou: :drinker:0 -
as you sit and judge everyone.
I have a 19-year-old college sophomore daughter. She and her friends grew up with Santa. They are the sweetest, most giving, unselfish children I know.
Is that so?Tell him the truth. My mom did, and I learned to appreciate Christmas for the family time and spirit of generosity. I'm going to do the same for mine.
So true! My kids understand and appreciate Christmas, whereas the ones that get told the Santa lie, end up believing that Christmas is all about presents.
That has been my observations over the years. My kids are now observing the same with their classmates in high school.
Gimme, gimme, mine, mine...
LOL Just as one day of eating at Thanksgiving did not make anyone on MFP fat, one day of gift giving by Santa did not make any child self-centered and greedy. It is more in the day to day parenting that is done in homes to produce such children.
Stop it. That makes too much sense.
Sounds like you know a lot of kids with bad parents.
Oh, I don't doubt that. TBH, much of my ranting has just be reacting to idiotic attacks on the OP. When people get like that, I give them a taste of their own medicine. They never like it. :laugh:
The OP can, obviously, do what she wants. I just find this whole debate very sad. Equating letting kids believe in something like Santa to lynig makes me sad.
When I was little, I really and truly believed there was a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow and that unicorns existed. Sometimes, I still believe those things. I see Santa as something similar. Is it really a lie?
And then I see so many adults with no sense of humor or adventure or ... I don't know. Something is lacking. And I didn't know until recent years that there were families who celebrated Christmas and didn't allow Santa in their homes, but now I do and it explains a lot.
Obviously, it isn't about Santa specifically, since non-Christians for the most part wouldn't have used that. Half my family is Jewish, so I really do know this. It's the idea of stomping on that innocent wonder and belief that bothers me and it makes me want to cry.
So do you also teach your kids that Superheros are real? That there really is a Spiderman? Why or why not?
I just don't understand why it's so important to other people that some of us choose NOT to perpetuate the Santa Myth.
Why is it so important to you (and the OP) that some people do?
It isn't.
What is important to me is that people don't judge others. Feeling judged can be a good reminder as to why we shouldn't cast judgement.0 -
LOL...for being imaginary and so generous, that jolly old magical elf sure is creating discord in families.
Two friends of mine have just told me their views on the subject. One is a mom who was born into Judaism and felt bad not partaking of the santa stories. So with her child in her immediate family in her home she does her families traditions as well as the santa actions the rest of us do in spite of the thoughts others in her fam might have. She has chosen to include the santa myth as part of her families traditions for the magic and joy it brings to childhood that she felt was missing in her own childhood &/or a feeling of "left out" she recalls as she observed the other kids.
Another friend told me she is reprimanding her husband for telling their little one there is not this magical person because she fears the backlash from parents at a school where she is very active. She put him on notice that any angry parents who come complaining that Jr. spilled the beans to their little one will be diverted to him.
Yes, I have brave and awesome friends. Every single one. I
my friends! :drinker:
It's not a bad mom to want your child to beleive in something bigger than themselves and that personifies and embodies the spirit of generosity, unconditional love, magic, and wonder, and have a sweet childhood? Kids make up so many of their own myths and stories for everything. My kid has a doozy for how babies get here and he just "knows" it's true. Childhood is filled with imagination and creativity as part of learning. There is plenty of time for the truths and realities that their more mature minds and hearts will be able to handle once the time comes. I think it's fine and fun to partake of the Santa legends.
Now get to baking some cookies for our old bud. And if you ask me how many calories are in the cookies and milk we leave out for Santa, I'm gonna have to scream.0 -
We probably should also ban those tofu looking burgers and hot dogs too cuz they are not REALLY hot dogs or burgers! Now that's a outright lie!!! And turkey bacon too!!!!!!! :devil:0
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I will never agree with that!Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.
My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.
You are in for a tough road ahead then.
Nope, not so tough. My kids are nearly grown, and have told us that they love the fact that they can know that we will always be honest with them. I feel sorry for kids whose parents lie to them for their own convenience. Screw that.
Our teens have an open and honest relationship. Since we have always been honest with them, they are free now to be honest with us, even on tough issues like sex/drugs. Being a liar is no good for long term relationships.
Let's be clear, I said protecting children from the truth isn't necessarily lying.
Let me ask you this....
If your parents would have gotten divorced when you were 3 years old cause your dad banged his secretary, and you asked your mother why they got divorced. Would you expect them to tell you "Because daddy banged the secretary?"
lmao
My parents are still happily married, and my husband and I are still happily married. Maybe honesty has something to do with it? *shrugs*
That's the way to deflect the question...you got that nailed down.
You are asking me something for which I have zero experience. My parents never cheated. i have never cheated. My husband has never cheated. How am I supposed to respond to something like that?
Its called a hypothetical. Its how you test theories.
I skipped that class in school. *shrugs*
Now that you know, try answering the question.
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Who gives a f*@k???? Each to their own. Do what you want to do.
QFT
Stop attacking people for their beliefs, and we won't feel the need to attack back in defense of our choices!
LOL. What the pro-santa people have been saying is that Santa is good for the imagination and that it's fun fairytale and to lighten up a bit.
What you have been saying is this:
1. Parents who let their kids believe in Santa are liars and inherently dishonest.
2. Children who celebrate with Santa are bound to be selfish, spoiled brats who only want gifts.
And I'm not even going to get into your marriage insinuation which was insulting, rude and completely uncalled for.
What sounds more like an attack to you?
You have the right to your opinion. That right stops where the rights of others begins. :flowerforyou:0 -
I thank you all for expressing your opinions, you have given me many things to think about. I apologize that it became such a polarized discussion. This is a time of year for celebration love and understanding.
Enjoy your holiday celebrations and embrace the unique traditions tha make them special for you.:flowerforyou:
Have a Merry/Happy Christmas/Saturnilia/Winter Solstice.
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I don't teach one way or the other. I let my daughter (and my parents let me) believe as we would. If she believes Spiderman is real, who am I to burst her bubble?The OP can, obviously, do what she wants. I just find this whole debate very sad. Equating letting kids believe in something like Santa to lynig makes me sad.
When I was little, I really and truly believed there was a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow and that unicorns existed. Sometimes, I still believe those things. I see Santa as something similar. Is it really a lie?
And then I see so many adults with no sense of humor or adventure or ... I don't know. Something is lacking. And I didn't know until recent years that there were families who celebrated Christmas and didn't allow Santa in their homes, but now I do and it explains a lot.
Obviously, it isn't about Santa specifically, since non-Christians for the most part wouldn't have used that. Half my family is Jewish, so I really do know this. It's the idea of stomping on that innocent wonder and belief that bothers me and it makes me want to cry.
So do you also teach your kids that Superheros are real? That there really is a Spiderman? Why or why not?
I just don't understand why it's so important to other people that some of us choose NOT to perpetuate the Santa Myth.
No one ever did that to me and I'm grateful they didn't. To this day, I recognize that the universe is vast and there are many things that my tiny mind cannot and will not ever comprehend. For all we know, there is an alternate universe somewhere that these things do exist. Or maybe there is a veil in this world where they exist and we can't see them.
Or maybe not. Does it matter? As long as the kid isn't doing anything harmful due to such a belief, why take that away?
That's fair enough. That is exactly how we have been with our kids. I have simply given honest answers when they ask questions.0 -
Thanksgiving is about love.This is exactly what I am talking about. To me, Christmas is meaningless if the only thing that matters is getting presents.
So just call it Thanksgiving and be done.
Why? Why not let Christmas be about love?
On Thanksgiving, you get together with the people you love, eat and are thankful for your life.
Without the traditions involved in Christmas (and it doesn't just have to be about presents, but that's part of the fun -- even if they're all homemade and cheap), then it's just Thanksgiving in December.
Thanksgiving is about being thankful. Christmas is about love and being with loved ones. Our traditions have to do with spending time together. We have had Christmas without any presents because no money. If we had done the Santa Myth, then my kids would totally hate that guy. :laugh:0 -
We probably should also ban those tofu looking burgers and hot dogs too cuz they are not REALLY hot dogs or burgers! Now that's a outright lie!!! And turkey bacon too!!!!!!! :devil:
So much food is a lie. The biggest perpetrator being cauliflower.0 -
I'm not trying to be judgmental. The Santa Myth is one of my biggest pet peeves. In this, I am the "Annoying Atheist." Sorry.
Really? Why don't you go re-read some of your posts when you step down off your ivory tower.
Do atheists live in ivory towers?
I'm an atheist. Don't lump your behavior with the rest of us lol. You have been nothing but aggressive and judgmental from the start. This has nothing to do with atheism and everything to do with your behavior.
But are you an "Annoying Atheist" or are you a respectful one? There's a *huge* difference.0 -
Except that even with no money, you can do presents of some kind. They don't have to be store bought or expensive or the latest thing.
Thanksgiving is about love.This is exactly what I am talking about. To me, Christmas is meaningless if the only thing that matters is getting presents.
So just call it Thanksgiving and be done.
Why? Why not let Christmas be about love?
On Thanksgiving, you get together with the people you love, eat and are thankful for your life.
Without the traditions involved in Christmas (and it doesn't just have to be about presents, but that's part of the fun -- even if they're all homemade and cheap), then it's just Thanksgiving in December.
Thanksgiving is about being thankful. Christmas is about love and being with loved ones. Our traditions have to do with spending time together. We have had Christmas without any presents because no money. If we had done the Santa Myth, then my kids would totally hate that guy. :laugh:
There are ways around it.
And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.0 -
We probably should also ban those tofu looking burgers and hot dogs too cuz they are not REALLY hot dogs or burgers! Now that's a outright lie!!! And turkey bacon too!!!!!!! :devil:
So much food is a lie. The biggest perpetrator being cauliflower.
And don't get me started on margarine!!!! :sad:0 -
So my oldest is 3 and asked me about Santa and Christmas. I told him the basic crap that everyone spews and I hate myself for it! Wh does he need to believe in Santa just to have it crushed later in life? Why set them up for disappointment later in life. Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?
Thoughts please.
Your poor kid...who pissed in your wheaties? I don't think kids are all that crushed later in life when they realize he's not real...my parents never let me believe in Santa for religious reasons and it still irks me that they didn't just let me be a kid and enjoy a harmless fairy-tail for those few short years when magic is actually real.
Personally, yeah...I think you suck.
Exhibit....I don't know which number we are on. But um yeah. Another example of being judgmental... (but somehow I am the only one catching flak)0 -
Better check your FL twice for liars...wouldnt want to associate with them, now would you?I can't believe this thread has gone on for so many pages.....
I thought it would go to 2 max!
Well a lot of people are very upset about your Santa beliefs. Maybe Santa should be added to religion in the ToS. People are acting like their entire holiday is crushed because someone on the internet disagrees.
You think my FL is full of liars? Or perhaps religious people? Or Santa believers?
you crack me up!0
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