Santa!?!?! I hate the lie!

rml_16

And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.

It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.

Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.

That's just silly.

No more silly than saying "the Santa Myth."

Why is it necessary to call it that? Because she's purposely being insulting and condescending.

Because Santa is being taught as true, not as fiction. This entire thread is about whether children should be told that Santa is REAL, or not.

A lot of things that are parodies are labeled as parodies, movies have disclaimers that say the events are fictional and any similarities to persons living or dead is unintentional, and the fiction section of the book store is labeled as fiction.

Children are told, but adults they trust, that santa is real. They lack the cognitive development to discern the lie, until they are several years older. It is a lie.

That is so incredibly sad.

delicious_cocktail

Because Santa is being taught as true, not as fiction. This entire thread is about whether children should be told that Santa is REAL, or not.

No one cares how anyone else thinks their children should be raised, which is what makes this such a colossally stupid thread.

emirror

speaking as a child who was "lied to" about Santa... it didn't make me mistrust my parents or any of those things mentioned in the thread. I could understand it was just a bit of fun that parents tell their kids. Yes even at age 6 I could understand that, without adults explaining it to me.

For me, it was extremely painful to realize Santa wasn't true. I had a really, really ****ty childhood, and god, jesus, nor the church members I went to for help, bothered to help me. My last ditch string of hope was that santa was real, and he could see that I was a nice kid who didn't deserve the hellish life I had. When I realized that santa really wasn't real, it really sunk in that I was completely alone in the world, that no one was going to help me, that no one was going to come save me.

I felt the same thing when I finally rejected the christian myth as well.

So, does it color my perception on whether we should perpetuate the lie? Yes, it does. It also makes me feel that false hope, not matter how well-intentioned, is detrimental. Believing in any of these false gods is detrimental, because NOTHING supernatural is going to come to your aid, no matter how good of a person you are. If you don't expect a god to rescue you, you can devote your time to actually making the world a better place.

You had a crappy childhood so no one else should have any fun?

Yes, that is exactly what I said. You get an A+ for reading comprehension.

Grow up.

Learn how to read.

FindingMyPerfection

And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.

It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.

Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.

That's just silly.

No more silly than saying "the Santa Myth."

Why is it necessary to call it that? Because she's purposely being insulting and condescending.

Because Santa is being taught as true, not as fiction. This entire thread is about whether children should be told that Santa is REAL, or not.

A lot of things that are parodies are labeled as parodies, movies have disclaimers that say the events are fictional and any similarities to persons living or dead is unintentional, and the fiction section of the book store is labeled as fiction.

Children are told, but adults they trust, that santa is real. They lack the cognitive development to discern the lie, until they are several years older. It is a lie.

Repped!

MinMin97

Because Santa is being taught as true, not as fiction. This entire thread is about whether children should be told that Santa is REAL, or not.

No one cares how anyone else thinks their children should be raised, which is what makes this such a colossally stupid thread.

The OP asked, and .....we answer!:happy:

redladywitch

Where's the kitteh gifs when you need them? I think the discussion part of this thread is done!

Edited for grammar.

twooliver

I buy into it also with my grandkids...

However as a priest and chaplain I am constantly undoing the damage done by this myth. People grow up transfering onto God a Santa Clause persona who is making a list and checking it twice gonna find out whose naughty and nice and at some point you cross over onto the naughtly list and off to a firey hell you go!

Some people just don't want to let go of Santa Clause in adulthood!

delicious_cocktail

speaking as a child who was "lied to" about Santa... it didn't make me mistrust my parents or any of those things mentioned in the thread. I could understand it was just a bit of fun that parents tell their kids. Yes even at age 6 I could understand that, without adults explaining it to me.

For me, it was extremely painful to realize Santa wasn't true. I had a really, really ****ty childhood, and god, jesus, nor the church members I went to for help, bothered to help me. My last ditch string of hope was that santa was real, and he could see that I was a nice kid who didn't deserve the hellish life I had. When I realized that santa really wasn't real, it really sunk in that I was completely alone in the world, that no one was going to help me, that no one was going to come save me.

I felt the same thing when I finally rejected the christian myth as well.

So, does it color my perception on whether we should perpetuate the lie? Yes, it does. It also makes me feel that false hope, not matter how well-intentioned, is detrimental. Believing in any of these false gods is detrimental, because NOTHING supernatural is going to come to your aid, no matter how good of a person you are. If you don't expect a god to rescue you, you can devote your time to actually making the world a better place.

You had a crappy childhood so no one else should have any fun?

Yes, that is exactly what I said. You get an A+ for reading comprehension.

Grow up.

Learn how to read.

And thus, Ladies and Gentlemen, we find the true meaning of Christmas. Insulting total strangers over the Internet for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Whether you're a winter solstice, Jesus, Santa Klaus, or other celebrant, at least we can agree on this one certain truth.

smdh.

bellesouth18

I haven't read every reply, so I don't know if this has been added yet. Here's an excellent letter about Santa.

neandermagnon

speaking as a child who was "lied to" about Santa... it didn't make me mistrust my parents or any of those things mentioned in the thread. I could understand it was just a bit of fun that parents tell their kids. Yes even at age 6 I could understand that, without adults explaining it to me.

For me, it was extremely painful to realize Santa wasn't true. I had a really, really ****ty childhood, and god, jesus, nor the church members I went to for help, bothered to help me. My last ditch string of hope was that santa was real, and he could see that I was a nice kid who didn't deserve the hellish life I had. When I realized that santa really wasn't real, it really sunk in that I was completely alone in the world, that no one was going to help me, that no one was going to come save me.

I felt the same thing when I finally rejected the christian myth as well.

So, does it color my perception on whether we should perpetuate the lie? Yes, it does. It also makes me feel that false hope, not matter how well-intentioned, is detrimental. Believing in any of these false gods is detrimental, because NOTHING supernatural is going to come to your aid, no matter how good of a person you are. If you don't expect a god to rescue you, you can devote your time to actually making the world a better place.

but being lied to about Santa was just one factor of many that made for a ****ty childhood though.

and you can't assume that the people who raised you are representative of all religious people. I know a lot of religious people who do a LOT to make the world a better place. Not all religions believe the same thing, not all concepts of what God is like involve God coming to rescue you. Many religious people emphasis personal responsibility rather than expecting God to rescue them "God helps those who help themselves" is one quote that comes to mind. You do seem to be tarring all religious people, and non-religious people who tell their kids about Santa, with the same brush. A lot of people do a great amount of good because of the teachings of their religion, or because of a religious upbringing even if they don't go on to follow that religion.

I know there are some extremely destructive beliefs within some sects of some religions, but I'm also not inclined to blame religion for that, but rather human nature. I've read some pretty appalling accounts of the childhoods of people raised by hardcore communists who held inflexible political beliefs and would take no "dissent" from the kids, i.e. the kids were not allowed to disagree with their political beliefs, in the same way some religious parents won't let their kids disagree with their religious beliefs.... in fact it was the same mentality as fundamentalist religious people, but with political beliefs, and yes they were atheists. Fact is some people have an inflexible mindset and can't tolerate beliefs that are different to their own. Religion doesn't cause that, it's a personality trait.

What I'm saying really, is you can't blame religion for the crappy behaviour of some humans. Personally, I blame the fact that we're primates (and humans are a heck of a lot nicer than baboons (to give an example of an extremely nasty primate species - they're a species of spiteful bullies, common chimps are bad enough, baboons are worse)). But really, some people have crappy personalities, some people are more secure being part of a "flock" (whether defined by religion, political belief or whatever) and will follow the flock rather than do what their conscience says is right.... you can't blame these things on the fact they believe things that other people consider to be untrue, or things that science has found to be untrue. yes people with certain personality flaws end up damaging their kids and in some cases passing on the same personality flaws. But these things are going to happen regardless of whether religions and myths exist or not. It's not the myths that make people do bad things. Humans are the kindest and most altruistic of all primates, but we're still primates, and primates are going to behave like primates a lot of the time. Humans are going to fight over territory and resources, they're going to follow a strong leader to be part of the flock (troop might be a better term, seeing as we're primates) and going to do selfish things. Religion has only ever been an excuse for that, and if religion wasn't there to be an excuse, something else would be.

redladywitch

Cranquistador

I can't believe this thread has gone on for so many pages.....

I thought it would go to 2 max!

Well a lot of people are very upset about your Santa beliefs. Maybe Santa should be added to religion in the ToS. People are acting like their entire holiday is crushed because someone on the internet disagrees.

Better check your FL twice for liars...wouldnt want to associate with them, now would you?

You think my FL is full of liars?

No, you do.

I mean, I am sure some of your FL are liars that participated in the Santa tradition and now according to you have greedy and horrible children.

I can see that you failed to understand the point. I don't care how other people raise their kids, just don't tell me how to raise mine. No one in my FL has EVER tried to tell me how to raise my kids.

:laugh:

i didnt think they did. You seemed to have missed the point. You are the one telling people how to raise their kids, or at least insulting people who do let their kids believe in Santa. I am just responding to your statements.

MinMin97

Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?

Thoughts please.

Yes. The innocence of youth is gone earlier and earlier every year. Why steal the magic from them any earlier than necessary?

Believing in Santa =/= innocence. Where did you get that?

calibriintx

So my oldest is 3 and asked me about Santa and Christmas. I told him the basic crap that everyone spews and I hate myself for it! Wh does he need to believe in Santa just to have it crushed later in life? Why set them up for disappointment later in life. Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?

Thoughts please.

Your poor kid...who pissed in your wheaties? I don't think kids are all that crushed later in life when they realize he's not real...my parents never let me believe in Santa for religious reasons and it still irks me that they didn't just let me be a kid and enjoy a harmless fairy-tail for those few short years when magic is actually real.

Personally, yeah...I think you suck.

Exhibit....I don't know which number we are on. But um yeah. Another example of being judgmental... (but somehow I am the only one catching flak)

You're sweet but the people who judge me personally without knowing me are ignored. Shrug* I understand some people make these snap judgments because it scares them to think people may be doing things different from them.

I just like to let people know how it feels. Some of these folks are just cracking me up. Others are making me feel sorry for them.

The majority of the "pro-Santa" people haven't had anything negative to say to the OP or about people who don't do the Santa thing. You came in attacking and insulting an entire group of people because a couple of them were nasty to the OP. Good job. Now we all know how it feels to be judged, even if we weren't the ones doing any judging. Feel better about yourself?

rml_16

Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?

Thoughts please.

Yes. The innocence of youth is gone earlier and earlier every year. Why steal the magic from them any earlier than necessary?

Believing in Santa =/= innocence. Where did you get that?

Not in itself. But it is symbolic of the innocence of youth. It's part of it in a lot of ways.

Also, the people calling it a "lie" don't really know what a lie is.

calibriintx

I can't believe this thread has gone on for so many pages.....

I thought it would go to 2 max!

Well a lot of people are very upset about your Santa beliefs. Maybe Santa should be added to religion in the ToS. People are acting like their entire holiday is crushed because someone on the internet disagrees.

Better check your FL twice for liars...wouldnt want to associate with them, now would you?

You think my FL is full of liars?

No, you do.

I mean, I am sure some of your FL are liars that participated in the Santa tradition and now according to you have greedy and horrible children.

I can see that you failed to understand the point. I don't care how other people raise their kids, just don't tell me how to raise mine. No one in my FL has EVER tried to tell me how to raise my kids.

:laugh:

i didnt think they did. You seemed to have missed the point. You are the one telling people how to raise their kids, or at least insulting people who do let their kids believe in Santa. I am just responding to your statements.

Ding Ding Ding!

WendyTerry420

I can't believe this thread has gone on for so many pages.....

I thought it would go to 2 max!

Well a lot of people are very upset about your Santa beliefs. Maybe Santa should be added to religion in the ToS. People are acting like their entire holiday is crushed because someone on the internet disagrees.

Better check your FL twice for liars...wouldnt want to associate with them, now would you?

You think my FL is full of liars?

No, you do.

I mean, I am sure some of your FL are liars that participated in the Santa tradition and now according to you have greedy and horrible children.

I can see that you failed to understand the point. I don't care how other people raise their kids, just don't tell me how to raise mine. No one in my FL has EVER tried to tell me how to raise my kids.

:laugh:

i didnt think they did. You seemed to have missed the point. You are the one telling people how to raise their kids, or at least insulting people who do let their kids believe in Santa. I am just responding to your statements.

Sorry, but I'm not. I am simply defending the position that it's ok to raise your kids without the Santa Myth.

ironmonkeystyle

Use it as an opportunity to explain solipsism, and the fact that there is no objective reality divorced from our perception thereof.

cwolfman13

So my oldest is 3 and asked me about Santa and Christmas. I told him the basic crap that everyone spews and I hate myself for it! Wh does he need to believe in Santa just to have it crushed later in life? Why set them up for disappointment later in life. Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?

Thoughts please.

Your poor kid...who pissed in your wheaties? I don't think kids are all that crushed later in life when they realize he's not real...my parents never let me believe in Santa for religious reasons and it still irks me that they didn't just let me be a kid and enjoy a harmless fairy-tail for those few short years when magic is actually real.

Personally, yeah...I think you suck.

Exhibit....I don't know which number we are on. But um yeah. Another example of being judgmental... (but somehow I am the only one catching flak)

You're sweet but the people who judge me personally without knowing me are ignored. Shrug* I understand some people make these snap judgments because it scares them to think people may be doing things different from them.

Not judging you...you asked people on a public forum if they thought you were a bad mom...I was just answering your question as honestly as possible...sorry you didn't like my answer...perhaps you shouldn't ask questions like that on a community forum if you don't want people to actually answer.

WendyTerry420

So my oldest is 3 and asked me about Santa and Christmas. I told him the basic crap that everyone spews and I hate myself for it! Wh does he need to believe in Santa just to have it crushed later in life? Why set them up for disappointment later in life. Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?

Thoughts please.

Your poor kid...who pissed in your wheaties? I don't think kids are all that crushed later in life when they realize he's not real...my parents never let me believe in Santa for religious reasons and it still irks me that they didn't just let me be a kid and enjoy a harmless fairy-tail for those few short years when magic is actually real.

Personally, yeah...I think you suck.

Exhibit....I don't know which number we are on. But um yeah. Another example of being judgmental... (but somehow I am the only one catching flak)

You're sweet but the people who judge me personally without knowing me are ignored. Shrug* I understand some people make these snap judgments because it scares them to think people may be doing things different from them.

Not judging you...you asked people on a public forum if they thought you were a bad mom...I was just answering your question as honestly as possible...sorry you didn't like my answer...perhaps you shouldn't ask questions like that on a community forum if you don't want people to actually answer.

Yep, some people equate Santa Claus with being a good parent or a bad parent. That's so sad.

redladywitch

CallMeCupcakeDammit

CallMeCupcakeDammit

Is there really a book called The Farting Dog?! I need to find that!

rml_16

Is there really a book called The Farting Dog?! I need to find that!

I know there is one called The Gas We Pass: The Story of Farts.

redladywitch

Here, take a nap.

emirror

but being lied to about Santa was just one factor of many that made for a ****ty childhood though.

and you can't assume that the people who raised you are representative of all religious people. I know a lot of religious people who do a LOT to make the world a better place.

I agree, I have known, and am friends with, many very nice christians.

My point was that a lot of people were saying that they didn't experience anything negative from it, but some people do. I did, in a rather dramatic way, and I have friends who did, but in a "why did you lie to me, I'm never going to trust you again" way.

The issue I have with this is telling children it is true, even when people know it is false. I just don't get it, I don't understand lying about something like that. I don't see how it makes anything more fun. My kids love the holiday, and look forward to it, and get excited by the gifts and mass quantities of cookies... but they know that santa is not real.

onmyown326

Is there really a book called The Farting Dog?! I need to find that!

I know there is one called The Gas We Pass: The Story of Farts.

I HAVE THEM BOTH-LMFAO!

redladywitch

Is there really a book called The Farting Dog?! I need to find that!

OMG. We had so many books like that for the kids. My youngest discovered why swiss cheese has holes in it....he googled for it....the bacteria farts and makes the holes in the cheese. :laugh: He was about 8 years old and still laughs about it at 18 years old.

JewelsinBigD

let them have magic. or hide away in a cave somewhere and don't let your kid out until he is like 11 when the other kids are over Santa. BTW- my 10.5 yo still believes- his position on it is - he could care less if other kids don't believe. As long as the big man keeps delivering the goods- he is onboard!

LauraMacNCheese

Is there really a book called The Farting Dog?! I need to find that!

I know there is one called The Gas We Pass: The Story of Farts.

I've seen this one in Barnes & Noble...very interesting read :drinker:

There's also this one: