Santa!?!?! I hate the lie!

emirror

We're atheist, so we don't teach our kids that any gods are real.

Because, you know, Santa fits the definition of a god. As does the easter bunny, and tooth fairy.

We don't do any of the lies, not Santa, easter bunny, various religions, none of it.

I've told her the tooth fairy isn't real, either. I still leave money for her under her pillow, and she knows I am the one who does it, but we like to pretend that I am the tooth fairy.

My parents are atheists. They told me about Santa and the tooth fairy. They even told me the tooth fairy uses the teeth to make little tiny fairy piano keys. They didn't do the Easter bunny though. No idea what they had against the Easter bunny.

I don't think those kinds of things harm kids, and I wouldn't put them in the same category as gods either. No-one worships Santa or the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy. But people worship Thor and Odin.

The might not worship, but they believe in it. For Santa, he has supernatural powers to travel the entire globe, know where you are, know if you've been a good person, and passes judgement on you. His likeness is easily recognized, we sing songs about his greatness, we write letters to him begging for favor, we decorate with his image.

Sounds like a god to me.

As for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, they would be lesser gods, for sure. They are still anticipated, and dispense favors to those who believe in them.

doorki

What this really boils down to is how you teach your children about life. Is it ok to lie to anyone, no, absolutely not. But lets face it, we all do it to some degree every day. If you say you don't, then that is a lie in itself.

This "Reason for the Season" Is suppose to be about the celebration of the birth of Christ. The presents are a representation of the gifts that were given by the three wisemen and other visitors that came to witness the birth.

It was not until the Pagan holiday came about and was introduced that "Santa" came into the picture and that is when things got out of control.

You obviously have the right to teach you child/children what you want based on what you believe. But I know a lot of dedicated Christian families that celebrate Christmas both ways (including mine) and when their kids got older they and found out that Santa did not exist they were not devastated or disappointed. They came out just fine and understood that Santa was just for fun.

Just don't give into that whole "Elf on s Shelf" thing. That is creepy and stupid.

Did you know December 25 was the concluding day of the pagan winter festival called the "Saturnalia" long before Jesus's birth? Based on historical records Jesus would have been born between June 16th and June 22nd. December 25th was pagan long before it started as a Christian holiday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/judith-lewis/christmas---ancient-pagan-holiday-which-was-criminally-illegal-until-1907_b_2350974.html

Notice all of the Christian holidays fall on Solstices and Equinoxes? Also notice that there seem to be pagan elements to these holidays....hmmm. This was all due to marketing. How do you get the general populace (which is ALWAYS adverse to wholesale change) to accept a new religion without upsetting their festival days? You co-opt them into your religion. So Saturnilia or other related Winter Solstice festival becomes Christmas, Easter (which is actually the name for a nordic fertility festival - bunnies and eggs) or other Vernal Equinox related festivals becomes about the death of Christ. Heck, even the trinity is an marketing attempt to polytheism.

calibriintx

1. So it's okay to teach your child it's okay lie?
2. You expect your child to trust you?
3. Why not just teach them the truth, It;s about GOD
4. A creepy fat guy watching us all year long, then coming down our chimney eating our food and leaving. CREEPY! (and what if you don't have a chimney)
5. It's bribery, if you were are a good parent you wouldn't need to use gifts as a way to get your child to behave all year long.
6. I work to give my child those girts, why let some imaginary guy get the credit for my hard work and time.
7. it's NOT the reason for the season.
8. It's makes it all about getting gifts, instead of giving them.
9. How do you explain to your kid that Santa was in that store, but somehow is in the very next you also?
10. If your feeling bad about it it, maybe that's continence trying to tell you something.
11. my lil girl doesn't believe in it and she have never gotten picked on , i have a feeling thats YOUR OWN fear, projecting into your child's life, bc just maybe they don't just "go with the flow".
12. I would hate to be you on judgment day, trying to explain why you gave some made up guy the glory in time the was dedicated to God.
13. it does not deprive them of anything by not telling them a LIE. it teaches them gratitude for the hard work you put into giving them gifts,
14. how old is that guy anyway?!?!?!?
15. you dont t3ell your child that the Disney characters are real, why would you tell them santa is real?
i know i came off harsh, but it was all said in love.

1. It's teaching your children that it's okay to pretend, even when you're a grown up, and fun with your kids. Also it's teaching the spirit of giving.
2. Yup. If she asks if he's real, I'll tell her the truth.
3. It's not about god for everyone. Christmas is a lovely tradition in my house. It's about giving to the less fortunate and giving of yourself. You can tell your kids that it's about god and you're welcome to tell them that for some people it's not. I'll tell mine what it's about to us, and what it's about to others.
4. We have a chimney but we also have a big bronze key with Santa on it, for our doorknob. That way Santa can just come through the front door if the fire hasn't gone out (or if we move to a home with no fireplace). Little's thrilled when the cookie plate has nothing but crumbs, the milk glass is empty, and the carrots are gone (reindeer get hungry too).
5. Not all parents do this. I don't. We even have an elf on the shelf but we don't follow the "rules." My kid is good b/c she's good - not b/c she's afraid she might get reindeer poop in her stocking if she's bad. If she was a problem child, I might resort to threats and bribery, but she's not, so I don't.
6. Do you feel really unappreciated or something? This is weird. Anyway, my kid gets one gift from Santa and some stocking stuffers. Then she gets some gifts from us.
7. Again, not for YOU.
8. If that's the way you feel, then you're doing it wrong. We participate in coat drives, food drives, Toys for Tots, etc. We do holiday crafts and make ornaments for friends and family. It's about giving. When you give, someone receives, and that's great too.
9. Didn't have to. Little announced to me after seeing various Santas around town that they're not the real Santa - they're his helpers and they let him know what kids want since he can't be everywhere at once. She's 4 today and decided that herself.
10. I don't feel bad.
11. Beginning to wonder if you were responding to a specific person and don't know how to quote..
12. I don't speak Judgement or Hypocrisy, so I'm not sure what this says.
13. Wat? I don't need to bombard my kid with gifts one day a year, for her to be grateful for our hard work. She says thank you for breakfast, lunch, dinner, clean clothes, etc.
14. I asked little and she said he's really old, like Grandpa.
15. Because.

WendyTerry420

lmao

My parents are still happily married, and my husband and I are still happily married. Maybe honesty has something to do with it? *shrugs*

Ew. Get over yourself, seriously.

So, because your parents were brutally honest they had a better marriage? Is it really that simple? No, it isn't. And insinuating that those of us who came from divorced and/or cheating homes were not raised with honesty, or do not recognize the importance of honesty is as insulting as it is wrong.

To the person who posed the question about Dad banging his secretary....

Been there as a kid, Got the honest story at a very young age from both parents. Not the best experience then and still repairing the damage now.

I feel sorry for any child who has to go through something like this. I can't imagine how it must feel. :flowerforyou:

Collier78

Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.

My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.

Another crock!


Love = honesty

Disagree! There are adult things that children should NOT be exposed to. I believe lying is at times necessary to protect them.

Protecting little ones is NOT the same as telling them lies. Don't be absurd.

Semantics! Lying by omission is still a lie and although we are friends I think you are being extremely judgmental, condescending and frankly you are being absurd.

I'm not trying to be judgmental. The Santa Myth is one of my biggest pet peeves. In this, I am the "Annoying Atheist." Sorry.

ETA: I was originally playing "White Knight" to the OP because everyone was crapping on her. I know how that feels.

But your "White Knighting" did come across as very condescending and judgemental...in the way you wrote it...so if you don't truly feel that way or as strongly and were simply just defending the OP...didn't you just lie to all of us? Santa may be a myth, but I have always used him along the lines of Christmas Spirit. My children donate time, energy and toys to others in need this time of year, and this year my oldest has spent time cleaning up after the tornado that rocked Washington, IL as we live in Pekin. To say that allowing them to believe in Santa turns them into greedy liars is a sweeping generalization that is just not true. If you truly believe that I'm sorry...if you don't truly believe it...implying it is a lie....and you did imply it with one of your earlier posts. :-(

dinosnopro

Honestly I don't like all the lying to kids thing either. I try to keep it to a minimum. No elf on the shelf or black mailing them to behave.

:drinker:

If you have to use Santa, and the threat of not getting gifts to get your kids to listen and behave...your parenting may be lacking.

FindingMyPerfection

Santa is a tradition and folklore, that's all. If you want to deny them a piece of their heritage, that is fine. But it isn't any more wrong than celebrating any holiday or believing in a particular religion.

We can watch movies and read books about Santa without pretending that he's real.

:drinker: :drinker: :drinker:
This is where I think I will land. I have no problem with the story I just don't like pretending it is anything more than Cinderella or Pinocchio.

LoraF83

Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.

My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.

I will never agree with that!

You are in for a tough road ahead then.

Nope, not so tough. My kids are nearly grown, and have told us that they love the fact that they can know that we will always be honest with them. I feel sorry for kids whose parents lie to them for their own convenience. Screw that.

Our teens have an open and honest relationship. Since we have always been honest with them, they are free now to be honest with us, even on tough issues like sex/drugs. Being a liar is no good for long term relationships.

Gosh, my mom told me about Santa and yet I still managed a close relationship with her. We talked about everything - including the time I thought my birth control failed.

Surprising isn't it? Especially since she *lied* to me when I was a little kid in an effort to make the holiday a little more magical. It's a wonder I still talk to her every day and consider her to be a good friend.

doorki

Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.

My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.

I will never agree with that!

You are in for a tough road ahead then.

Nope, not so tough. My kids are nearly grown, and have told us that they love the fact that they can know that we will always be honest with them. I feel sorry for kids whose parents lie to them for their own convenience. Screw that.

Our teens have an open and honest relationship. Since we have always been honest with them, they are free now to be honest with us, even on tough issues like sex/drugs. Being a liar is no good for long term relationships.

Let's be clear, I said protecting children from the truth isn't necessarily lying.

Let me ask you this....

If your parents would have gotten divorced when you were 3 years old cause your dad banged his secretary, and you asked your mother why they got divorced. Would you expect them to tell you "Because daddy banged the secretary?"

lmao

My parents are still happily married, and my husband and I are still happily married. Maybe honesty has something to do with it? *shrugs*

That's the way to deflect the question...you got that nailed down.

You are asking me something for which I have zero experience. My parents never cheated. i have never cheated. My husband has never cheated. How am I supposed to respond to something like that?

Its called a hypothetical. Its how you test theories.

CountryDevil

This "Reason for the Season" Is suppose to be about the celebration of the birth of Christ. The presents are a representation of the gifts that were given by the three wisemen and other visitors that came to witness the birth.

It was not until the Pagan holiday came about and was introduced that "Santa" came into the picture and that is when things got out of control.

The Pagans shot first.

The Pagans invented Santa...never heard that one before?!

Crapola!! Got my facts all mixed up.. Belay my last...

My point to the whole thing is that nothing wrong with having fun with the holiday.

Lifelink

Then don't.. tell him its all a lie and you just buy him gifts and write santa on them.. or let him enjoy the holidays..

Next tell him Easter isn't about a bunny but rather a guy that got betrayed by his friend, then nailed to a cross and bled to death for hours, but he came back.. that gets em every time.

Easter is actuality pagan celebration of spring that was twisted by the church to help convert pagans. The same goes for Christmas it was a celebration of the days becoming longer again signaling winter wouldn't last for ever.

Despite claims being made that Easter Eggs were originally pagan symbols, there is no solid evidence for this. It was not until the 18th Century that Jakob Grimm theorized a pagan connection to Easter Eggs with a goddess of his own whom he named Ostara, a suggested German version of Eostre.

At the Passover Seder, a hard-boiled egg dipped in salt water symbolizes both new life and the Passover sacrifice offered at the Temple in Jerusalem. The ancient Persians painted eggs for Nowrooz, their New Year celebration falling on the Spring Equinox. This tradition has continued every year on Nowrooz since ancient times.

An Orthodox tradition related with Easter celebrations is the presenting of red colored eggs to friends while giving Easter greetings. According to history, the custom derives from a biblical event where Mary Magdalene went to the emperor of Rome and told him of Jesus rising from the grave. The story is actually quite long, but nonetheless, it makes since why eggs are involved. Enough about this.

AprilMae1975

I love it!!! My ex-husband was against it because he was a so called "Christian" Santa was banned from our home. I grew up believing in Santa and at some point knew he wasn't real but still loved the tradition. After my divorce I brought Santa back!! My kids are now teenagers and know there's no Santa but we still set out milk and cookies and they have "Santa" gifts on Christmas morning.

kellenas

Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.

My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.

I will never agree with that!

You are in for a tough road ahead then.

Nope, not so tough. My kids are nearly grown, and have told us that they love the fact that they can know that we will always be honest with them. I feel sorry for kids whose parents lie to them for their own convenience. Screw that.

Our teens have an open and honest relationship. Since we have always been honest with them, they are free now to be honest with us, even on tough issues like sex/drugs. Being a liar is no good for long term relationships.

Let's be clear, I said protecting children from the truth isn't necessarily lying.

Let me ask you this....

If your parents would have gotten divorced when you were 3 years old cause your dad banged his secretary, and you asked your mother why they got divorced. Would you expect them to tell you "Because daddy banged the secretary?"

lmao

My parents are still happily married, and my husband and I are still happily married. Maybe honesty has something to do with it? *shrugs*

That's the way to deflect the question...you got that nailed down.

You are asking me something for which I have zero experience. My parents never cheated. i have never cheated. My husband has never cheated. How am I supposed to respond to something like that?

What if one of your parents did cheat, but chose not to tell you? What if you just don't know and they chose to protect you?

WendyTerry420

Tell him the truth. My mom did, and I learned to appreciate Christmas for the family time and spirit of generosity. I'm going to do the same for mine.

So true! My kids understand and appreciate Christmas, whereas the ones that get told the Santa lie, end up believing that Christmas is all about presents.

Is that so?

That has been my observations over the years. My kids are now observing the same with their classmates in high school.

Gimme, gimme, mine, mine...

LOL Just as one day of eating at Thanksgiving did not make anyone on MFP fat, one day of gift giving by Santa did not make any child self-centered and greedy. It is more in the day to day parenting that is done in homes to produce such children.

Stop it. That makes too much sense.

I have a 19-year-old college sophomore daughter. She and her friends grew up with Santa. They are the sweetest, most giving, unselfish children I know.

Sounds like you know a lot of kids with bad parents.

Oh, I don't doubt that. TBH, much of my ranting has just be reacting to idiotic attacks on the OP. When people get like that, I give them a taste of their own medicine. They never like it. :laugh:

The OP can, obviously, do what she wants. I just find this whole debate very sad. Equating letting kids believe in something like Santa to lynig makes me sad.

When I was little, I really and truly believed there was a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow and that unicorns existed. Sometimes, I still believe those things. I see Santa as something similar. Is it really a lie?

And then I see so many adults with no sense of humor or adventure or ... I don't know. Something is lacking. And I didn't know until recent years that there were families who celebrated Christmas and didn't allow Santa in their homes, but now I do and it explains a lot.

Obviously, it isn't about Santa specifically, since non-Christians for the most part wouldn't have used that. Half my family is Jewish, so I really do know this. It's the idea of stomping on that innocent wonder and belief that bothers me and it makes me want to cry.

So do you also teach your kids that Superheros are real? That there really is a Spiderman? Why or why not?

I just don't understand why it's so important to other people that some of us choose NOT to perpetuate the Santa Myth.

LoraF83

Tell him the truth. My mom did, and I learned to appreciate Christmas for the family time and spirit of generosity. I'm going to do the same for mine.

So true! My kids understand and appreciate Christmas, whereas the ones that get told the Santa lie, end up believing that Christmas is all about presents.

Is that so?

That has been my observations over the years. My kids are now observing the same with their classmates in high school.

Gimme, gimme, mine, mine...

LOL Just as one day of eating at Thanksgiving did not make anyone on MFP fat, one day of gift giving by Santa did not make any child self-centered and greedy. It is more in the day to day parenting that is done in homes to produce such children.

Stop it. That makes too much sense.

I have a 19-year-old college sophomore daughter. She and her friends grew up with Santa. They are the sweetest, most giving, unselfish children I know.

Sounds like you know a lot of kids with bad parents.

Oh, I don't doubt that. TBH, much of my ranting has just be reacting to idiotic attacks on the OP. When people get like that, I give them a taste of their own medicine. They never like it. :laugh:

The OP can, obviously, do what she wants. I just find this whole debate very sad. Equating letting kids believe in something like Santa to lynig makes me sad.

When I was little, I really and truly believed there was a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow and that unicorns existed. Sometimes, I still believe those things. I see Santa as something similar. Is it really a lie?

And then I see so many adults with no sense of humor or adventure or ... I don't know. Something is lacking. And I didn't know until recent years that there were families who celebrated Christmas and didn't allow Santa in their homes, but now I do and it explains a lot.

Obviously, it isn't about Santa specifically, since non-Christians for the most part wouldn't have used that. Half my family is Jewish, so I really do know this. It's the idea of stomping on that innocent wonder and belief that bothers me and it makes me want to cry.

So do you also teach your kids that Superheros are real? That there really is a Spiderman? Why or why not?

I just don't understand why it's so important to other people that some of us choose NOT to perpetuate the Santa Myth.

Why is it so important to you (and the OP) that some people do?

MinMin97

What this really boils down to is how you teach your children about life. Is it ok to lie to anyone, no, absolutely not. But lets face it, we all do it to some degree every day. If you say you don't, then that is a lie in itself.

I disagree. There are lots of situations where it's not only okay to lie, but you could argue that it's the ethical thing to do.

You're living in Germany in the 1940s and there's a Jewish family living in your basement, in secret. The Gestapo knock on your door and ask you if you know of any Jews that are hiding anywhere. So you're going to tell them the truth....? Or you're going to claim that the ethical thing to do is tell the truth....? No, the ethical thing to do in this situation is to lie.

And there are a lot of comparatively minor situations where lying to save someone's feelings has no long term consequences, but telling the truth would hurt their feelings and do a lot more damage than the little white lie.

There are of course many, many situations where it's wrong to lie and they're certainly more common than situations where it's better to lie. But my point is that your statement that it's absolutely not okay to lie, is incorrect.

If you are God, then you can decide what is okay and what is not okay. For all of us.

WendyTerry420

Who gives a f*@k???? Each to their own. Do what you want to do.

QFT

Stop attacking people for their beliefs, and we won't feel the need to attack back in defense of our choices!

neandermagnon

We're atheist, so we don't teach our kids that any gods are real.

Because, you know, Santa fits the definition of a god. As does the easter bunny, and tooth fairy.

We don't do any of the lies, not Santa, easter bunny, various religions, none of it.

I've told her the tooth fairy isn't real, either. I still leave money for her under her pillow, and she knows I am the one who does it, but we like to pretend that I am the tooth fairy.

My parents are atheists. They told me about Santa and the tooth fairy. They even told me the tooth fairy uses the teeth to make little tiny fairy piano keys. They didn't do the Easter bunny though. No idea what they had against the Easter bunny.

I don't think those kinds of things harm kids, and I wouldn't put them in the same category as gods either. No-one worships Santa or the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy. But people worship Thor and Odin.

The might not worship, but they believe in it. For Santa, he has supernatural powers to travel the entire globe, know where you are, know if you've been a good person, and passes judgement on you. His likeness is easily recognized, we sing songs about his greatness, we write letters to him begging for favor, we decorate with his image.

Sounds like a god to me.

As for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, they would be lesser gods, for sure. They are still anticipated, and dispense favors to those who believe in them.

who believes in Santa etc past early childhood though? religious people believe in their gods their whole life, or if they stop believing in them, they lose their faith. When a religious person teaches their children about the god they worship, they do it from a place of sincere belief. When parents (of any faith or none) tell their children about Santa etc, they know it's not real, they're doing it out of wanting their kid to have a bit of fun and something to be excited about. For something to be a bona fide religion and for the imaginary people to count as gods, then the adults in the culture have to sincerely believe in them too. Otherwise all kinds of fictional characters and made up people could be counted as gods.

WendyTerry420

SOOOO... should we start burning all fiction and stop seeing fictional movies and put these kids to work? darn that sponge bob!!!! :devil:

Spongebob is awesome!

Holly_Roman_Empire

Sometimes being a good parent means lying to them.

My kids still believe. I love that Christmas is magical to them. Believing in santa doesn't mean you don’t teach them the meaning of Christmas though.

Another crock!


Love = honesty

Disagree! There are adult things that children should NOT be exposed to. I believe lying is at times necessary to protect them.

Protecting little ones is NOT the same as telling them lies. Don't be absurd.

Semantics! Lying by omission is still a lie and although we are friends I think you are being extremely judgmental, condescending and frankly you are being absurd.

I'm not trying to be judgmental. The Santa Myth is one of my biggest pet peeves. In this, I am the "Annoying Atheist." Sorry.

ETA: I was originally playing "White Knight" to the OP because everyone was crapping on her. I know how that feels.

I don't think anyone was crapping on her. She asked for opinions and got them.