Steroids and Dating and Attraction

"Just be confident." It's amazing how people think you just flick a switch and there it is. How and where do I get confidence from when:

1. I have an ugly face.
2. I am short.
3. I am skinny.
4. I am old.
5. I have no money left after having to fight through court for years to see my child who my ex stopped me from seeing for no other reason than wanting to play happy families with a new guy.
6. Notwithstanding the above, I seem to have a gene that makes women look at me and instantly think: "Ewwwww! He's disgusting, I'm not even going to treat him with base level courtesy." I can't explain it. I feel utterly ashamed of myself for being so repulsive as to elicit that response. The last woman I was attracted to tried to get me fired for it (I didn't even ask her out, there was nothing inappropriate involved) and has smeared my name in the office amongst the women there. I cry every night after coming home, I hate it so much. I feel so grubby.

Read my profile synopsis. That's how I feel about myself through years of being made to feel like a leper for being a 'skinny little boy.' If I looked like a man, I would be treated differently. I don't go for shallow women, they just hate me for being repulsive. I hate myself so much for it.

So yeah, confidence in the face of a world telling me that I'm too s*** to be a part of it. Where do I buy it again?

Although this is off the rails from what this thread is about, I felt it was worth responding to. I have had confidence issues most of my life and your post/reasons above made me think about that a little bit. It made me want to look up the definition of confidence, self-esteem, self worth and things like that.

All I can say is, boy is it complicated. The official definitions are full of posited theories, notions of what it means to the psyche, and a whole bunch of other foundational psychic issues. I say to hell with all that. It's a bunch of psychological crap. Here's the trick to confidence:

Confidence is simply not giving a crap. Don't give a crap about what anyone thinks of you, don't give a crap about what women are thinking. Truth is women don't know what they want. Women are like any other social group, they say one thing and they mean something else. Or they think they know what they want, but they actually don't. Humans by their nature, are a crazy self-deluded species. We fall prey to our own imaginations, superstitions and biases on an hourly basis.

You will have confidence when you don't care about any of it. Do you find yourself looking at women? Don't do it. Don't give them the ego boost. Men aren't subtle at all we fail at this constantly. Women detect subtlety constantly. They always catch you looking at them, and they will form negative opinions about you because of it. Don't look at them, don't care, and they'll wonder why you're not looking. They're used to the attention. They will wonder about you in a positive way.

The art of attraction is the art of not giving them what they want while being distant and unavailable. When they see that you have your own thing going on, that you have your own goals and processes, you have your own life and other people who are interested in you, then they become interested in you. And you have to do it in a way where you don't care about the outcome. You don't care if they like you or not, you only care about what you need to do. You can't brag or try to be subtle because it will come off as being obvious. You just have to do your own thing and not give a crap.

You have to accept that many women won't like you, but some will. Women are naturally guarding, they don't want to put down their protective barrier unless it feels right. What makes it feel right? Anything can make it feel right. Again, just don't care.

Addressing your points specifically:
1. Women care less about this then cleanliness and how you take care of yourself. If you look sharp look nice, smell nice, or clean-shaven with a nice haircut, to many women that is "looks". Not all, but many. I don't know if you're ugly or not, no Homo.
2. I knew this woman who is 5'10", who always liked taller guys. If you asked her if she would date a short guy she would have said no. She fell for this guy who became unavailable to her who was about 5 foot six or seven. He had personality, he was muscular and athletic. Solution: add muscles. Play sports, be athletic be interesting. Conclusion: women don't know what they want. They say one thing, they do something else.
3. Better to be skinny than fat. Add muscles.
4. Yeah we are getting old aren't we. Doesn't matter as much as you think, it will rule out many women, but many others like the age.
5. Many if not most women will overlook money if you are interesting to them. If you are honest and intimate in a way that gives them a real relationship, maybe one they haven't had before. Most women probably want a deep emotional connection in their relationships. Trust and honesty are the most important things. I think being interesting, athletic, muscular, trustworthy and honest will outweigh money nine times out of 10.
6. This is not in addressable issue by itself. This is your self-esteem talking. Solution: stop caring. Just don't give a crap. Care about yourself and what you do but don't care about anybody else or what they think about what you do. Not giving a crap about what other people think of you will paradoxically cause them to like you more and be more interested in you, which in turn will give you more self-esteem.

You are at a low point stuck in a bad cycle. You can get out of it bit by bit, starting now.

I read your profile. You can be the most muscular rat atop the trash heap. And it should be done without performance enhancing drugs.

Sorry, I prefer brains over brawn. And taking steroids, to me, is pretty brainless.

What about being 5ft 8? That's deemed WAY too short for dating these days. Won't more muscle make a short guy look more like a man, not a boy?

Deemed way too short by who? I know a guy who is 5ft 4 and he is HOT :bigsmile: he's not muscly either - to be honest, excess muscle would just make him look out of proportion. There is no blanket answer - It's just what looks good on each individual body.

By most women, who expect 6ft or above? That's what my online experience has taught me, at least.

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No. Dudes on steroids tend to act crazy with that 'roid rage crap, and it isn't cute at all. Also, I am not really turned on by huge, bulging muscles.

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All so confusing. Everybody says "don't do them" but I need to get a man's body so that women will look at me like one.

Again- this is not about muscles, it's clear you have low self esteem. Try working on coming across as more confident, girls LOVE confidence in a man! It's true. Being friendly, confident, and not shy and awkward will really make a huge difference. My current boyfriend doesn't have muscles and I really do not care whatsoever. Funny and charming beats out big muscles any day of the week. Also, if you're just going after girls who would be into big muscly guys and nothing else, you gotta ask yourself- why are you into shallow girls?? Try looking for someone with substance, who cares more about your personality than your looks.

"Just be confident." It's amazing how people think you just flick a switch and there it is. How and where do I get confidence from when:

1. I have an ugly face.
2. I am short.
3. I am skinny.
4. I am old.
5. I have no money left after having to fight through court for years to see my child who my ex stopped me from seeing for no other reason than wanting to play happy families with a new guy.
6. Notwithstanding the above, I seem to have a gene that makes women look at me and instantly think: "Ewwwww! He's disgusting, I'm not even going to treat him with base level courtesy." I can't explain it. I feel utterly ashamed of myself for being so repulsive as to elicit that response. The last woman I was attracted to tried to get me fired for it (I didn't even ask her out, there was nothing inappropriate involved) and has smeared my name in the office amongst the women there. I cry every night after coming home, I hate it so much. I feel so grubby.

Read my profile synopsis. That's how I feel about myself through years of being made to feel like a leper for being a 'skinny little boy.' If I looked like a man, I would be treated differently. I don't go for shallow women, they just hate me for being repulsive. I hate myself so much for it.

So yeah, confidence in the face of a world telling me that I'm too s*** to be a part of it. Where do I buy it again?

Based solely on your profile and pictures, I believe that you could meet women just fine if your mentality wasn't such a downer! Confidence and a positive attitude are sexy to women. Self-loathing can make even the most beautiful man in the world unattractive. That's just my two cents.

QUESTION FOR THE WOMEN: Would you ever date/marry a man who has used/uses steroids or prohormones? Would you be able to respect them? Because after the first impressions of physical attraction, a conscious effort has to be made to overcome that, once knowing he shoots himself in the butt with steroids lol. Would that be morally a dealbreaker for you? Granted, this may be a morality issue, as I'm sure lots of people here use recreational drugs and whatnot and steroids can be arguably defended as safer than prescription pill poppers looking to get high.

I would consider dating with someone who made a mistake (in this case, using steroids) in the past, but not in the present.

As an aside, may i just say that not all women are attracted to HUGE muscles? I know many are, but many women prefer more natural muscles. Muscles that looked like they were obtained doing normal work, not gym work. And there is a HUGE difference. I can almost tell from looking at a man whether they are "gym rat" muscles or a combination of some "gym rat" muscles and real, manly work outside of the gym. Also, if you look like a jersey shore cast member, I would automatically not be interested. If your muscles are so inflated your head seems tiny and out of proportion, I'm turned off. Immediately. It's just not sexy to me.

However, to many, many women, the bigger the better (muscles). So it's a matter of taste, I guess.

For men, I would not recommend taking steroids to attract women. Steroids can do much more harm in potential for attractiveness than good. They can impact sexual performance, create bacne, mood swings. An increase in muscle mass isn't worth it.

If you want bigger muscles, lift weights. There is no substitute for a good lifting regimen.

This. When I was 18 I dated a steroid user. Not interested in ever going down that road again.

All so confusing. Everybody says "don't do them" but I need to get a man's body so that women will look at me like one.

Again- this is not about muscles, it's clear you have low self esteem. Try working on coming across as more confident, girls LOVE confidence in a man! It's true. Being friendly, confident, and not shy and awkward will really make a huge difference. My current boyfriend doesn't have muscles and I really do not care whatsoever. Funny and charming beats out big muscles any day of the week. Also, if you're just going after girls who would be into big muscly guys and nothing else, you gotta ask yourself- why are you into shallow girls?? Try looking for someone with substance, who cares more about your personality than your looks.

"Just be confident." It's amazing how people think you just flick a switch and there it is. How and where do I get confidence from when:

1. I have an ugly face.
2. I am short.
3. I am skinny.
4. I am old.
5. I have no money left after having to fight through court for years to see my child who my ex stopped me from seeing for no other reason than wanting to play happy families with a new guy.
6. Notwithstanding the above, I seem to have a gene that makes women look at me and instantly think: "Ewwwww! He's disgusting, I'm not even going to treat him with base level courtesy." I can't explain it. I feel utterly ashamed of myself for being so repulsive as to elicit that response. The last woman I was attracted to tried to get me fired for it (I didn't even ask her out, there was nothing inappropriate involved) and has smeared my name in the office amongst the women there. I cry every night after coming home, I hate it so much. I feel so grubby.

Read my profile synopsis. That's how I feel about myself through years of being made to feel like a leper for being a 'skinny little boy.' If I looked like a man, I would be treated differently. I don't go for shallow women, they just hate me for being repulsive. I hate myself so much for it.

So yeah, confidence in the face of a world telling me that I'm too s*** to be a part of it. Where do I buy it again?

From looking at your profile, I don't see that you are any of those things. I don't think 5'8" is that short. I suspect your difficulties with dating have more to do with your attitude. Personally, the thing that is most important to me is a sense of humor and good personality. I'm sorry you have such low self esteem, but that is something you can work on.

THIS IS AN OPEN DISCUSSION.

Okay let's face it, women love muscles and are immediately attracted to a strong looking male - sociobiological theory and whatnot. That said, the temptation of anabolic steroids or prohormones or anything of the sort is pretty strong amongst men, whether they admit it or not. I, for one, have FLEETINGLY (I stress fleetingly here) thought about it. I'd never ever do it though, as I've come to the simple conclusion that I would not be happy with myself if I did (not even going into the illegality of it - not worth it). I could never be proud of my accomplishments, although I do agree it takes massive amounts of work as well. I simply could not respect myself for going that route. I'm young enough where I can still reach my genetic limit by the time I'm in my lower/mid-30s, and I'm more than fine with that.

QUESTION FOR THE WOMEN: Would you ever date/marry a man who has used/uses steroids or prohormones? Would you be able to respect them? Because after the first impressions of physical attraction, a conscious effort has to be made to overcome that, once knowing he shoots himself in the butt with steroids lol. Would that be morally a dealbreaker for you? Granted, this may be a morality issue, as I'm sure lots of people here use recreational drugs and whatnot and steroids can be arguably defended as safer than prescription pill poppers looking to get high.

That is not true for all women...I prefer my man and what he looks like...he is not "muscled"...he is fit...

I would not date or marry anyone who took steriods mainly because of the other side effects. For me it's not moral it's a health issue....and I have little to no respect for men who take the shortcuts...there is one here in town and he is such a knob and "angry".

Someone who smokes some pot is way different then someone to lazy to work hard to get built and considering all the effects..yah no.

I would. I wouldn't go seeking out a guy on steroids but I think there's a lot of misconceptions about them and the people who take them. Not everyone who takes them is a crazy rage monster. I know people who have used them and they were date-able men.

I probably would not be attracted to a man who uses steroids for the simple reason that he would not be my type physically; I'm not a fan of muscles. For example, my man is tall and skinny fat but very handsome and I'm very attracted to him on a physical level. To be perfectly honest, if I'm going to date somebody I'm looking at the entire package and not just wrapping paper because there are certain traits that will be dealbreakers regardless of how good a man happens to look.

What about being 5ft 8? That's deemed WAY too short for dating these days. Won't more muscle make a short guy look more like a man, not a boy?

My husband is 5'6".

Your problem isn't your height.

I don't know if this has been posted, but in my experience, women are about as attracted to men with muscles as men are to thin women... Men think we're attracted to the ULTRA muscular when in fact most of us are thinking "ew gross!" Just like women think men want skinny skinny skinny when in fact most like a little cushion! I think we all think we need to live up to some crazy standard for the opposite sex when really everyone is in search of healthy. Also I heard this the other day, made me laugh: "abs on a skinny guy are like boobs on a fat girl."

I'm 40 next month, low self esteem has been ingrained in me since childhood. How do I work on it?

Find something you are good at and passionate about. Focus on improving yourself, not just physically but mentally, too. Don't tell people the negative things you feel about yourself. There is a huge difference between confidence and arrogance. Trust me, there are tons of women out there who don't care that you are 5'8" - but no one likes a Debbie Downer. And you are not ugly. So I have to think it's your attitude that turns women off. Also, 40ish is not old! LOL