Dairy Alarmism
Showcase_Brodown
Posts: 919 Member
Maybe this has been around for a very long time, but I am starting to notice that many people regard milk and dairy as unhealthy. Considering that I do consume quite a bit of dairy, I spent a little time digging for information on why dairy is so bad for me.
With a quick web search, one can find numerous supposed reasons that dairy is terrible for you. However, after looking into many of the reasons, I feel that there is little to no scientific reason for me to avoid dairy. Everything seemed to either be a complete joke or at best lacking good support.
Help a man out. Are there any legitimate dairy concerns, backed by a consensus of good research?
With a quick web search, one can find numerous supposed reasons that dairy is terrible for you. However, after looking into many of the reasons, I feel that there is little to no scientific reason for me to avoid dairy. Everything seemed to either be a complete joke or at best lacking good support.
Help a man out. Are there any legitimate dairy concerns, backed by a consensus of good research?
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Replies
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Why not try a month without dairy, and decide for yourself?0
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Dairy is fine if your body produces the enzyme lactase. The very recent evolution of the ability to digest dairy products in adulthood is fascinating... this trait has evolved in populations with a long history of dairy farming/herding, e.g. Europeans, Masai (in Africa)... what's most interesting is that this trait evolved at least twice, i.e. separately in both those populations, and it may be the case that it's evolved separately in other dairy/herding populations (the alternative is that gene flow between populations resulted in the trait spreading from one population to another,but it's been demonstrated in scientific studies that the European mutation and Masai mutation for digesting dairy as adults are different and arose separately).
Anyway, whether you find that kind of thing interesting or not, the ability to digest lactose is quite closely tied to ethnic origin (although it's not 100% because of gene flow and archaic genes sticking around) so if your ancestors over the last few thousand years were dairy farmers or herders, chances are you can digest dairy just fine, and there's no reason to avoid it. If your ancestors from this time period didn't have anything to do with dairy, then there's a high probability that you can't digest dairy and in that case you should avoid it. But usually people who are lactose intolerant know about it without being told this information due to getting sick when they eat dairy.
Dairy allergy is separate to lactose intolerance and while I'd love to know the evolutionary history of allergy (which is probably a defence against parasitic infection) I don't know much about it or examples of any particular populations it evolved in. But if you're allergic to milk that's another reason not to drink it.
Unfortunately there's a lot of pseudoscience against milk because both the vegan crowd and the paleo crowd hate on it. There are few things that these two groups agree on, but hatred of dairy products is one. And both groups will tell you "milk is for baby cows not for humans" they also both tend to ignore or be unaware of the fact that humans are highly adaptable in terms of diet, and the ability to digest dairy products has evolved in populations with a long enough history of dairy farming/herding.
I, personally, am from the British Isles and the Britain a history of dairy farming going back at least 5000 years; I can digest dairy just fine and will continue to consume dairy products
:drinker: @ dairy products and the lactase persistence gene
tl;dr: if dairy makes you sick don't eat/drink it, if it doesn't and you like it then eat/drink it0 -
The dairy conspiracy started a very long time ago on a small dairy farm in Switzerland and after getting the local population hooked on icecream and chocolate milk has spread around the world.......be very weary of any person, place or gov't that offers it for sale......keep away for older people and small children especially. Thank you.0
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I can think of reasons to wince at the idea of drinking milk aside from dairy allergy/intolerance, primarily the sheer amount and variety of goodies being fed to conventionally raised livestock... but that also applies to meat in general, bonus points if we're talking animal liver. But there is a limit to how much dairy I can get away with due to the whole lactose thing so I appreciate the effort these "alarmists" sink into coming up with tasty non-dairy things.0
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Help a man out. Are there any legitimate dairy concerns, backed by a consensus of good research?
Unless you have an intolerance, no. I haven't seen anything beyond alarmism and agenda-pushing.0 -
I personally am lactose intolerant but I LOVE milk. I just buy the lactose free stuff. I think too much cheese can be bad since it is fattening, but I have never seen any legitimate research on a normal consumption of dairy being bad for you. I was raised being told that milk is important for strong bones, so I'm not sure what happened to that mindset.
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My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow. Take a look at the constituents of bovine milk vs. human milk. It is pretty interesting. Is it the best thing to use dairy products formulated for a species so vastly different from our own? That is what makes me wonder. Of course, not when I eat my appropriate serving of Ben & Jerry's ice cream!
Edited to add: be wary when using the UDSA to evaluate meat and milk. The USDA's mission (at least one of them) is to promote our over-consumption of meat and dairy. That is why our food pyramids, for so long, has pushed meat, dairy, and cheese as particularly healthy. They are all loaded with saturated fats! There is a really good study out there about dairy, but I don't have my notes in front of me. I think it was the Nurses Heart research study or something like that. Try googling it. It is a real an eye opener about dairy.0 -
Help a man out. Are there any legitimate dairy concerns, backed by a consensus of good research?
Unless you have an intolerance, no. I haven't seen anything beyond alarmism and agenda-pushing.
^ This. The arguments against dairy seem to range from the mildly amusing to the truly laughable.0 -
I limit my dairy consumption only because I'm lactose intolerant (despite my family also coming from the British Isles, what gives?). That's the only reason I don't eat more dairy products. I'm not sure why dairy is getting such bad publicity. Is it an American thing? There are ads here in Canada promoting milk and milk products as part of a healthy and balanced diet. And I don't know of anyone personally (apart from those who follow paleo) who think dairy is bad.
tl;dr dairy is delicious and IMO the only reason to avoid it is if you have an intolerance or allergy to it.0 -
I've cut back on dairy recently. Just because I was way over-doing it on the dairy food (I can consume about 2 litres of milk in a day and I could also have cheese and yoghurt on top of that) and I've found that from cutting back, I feel less bloated than I used to. But that's just me, and like I said above, I was really over-doing it. So if you feel like you're having too much dairy, maybe cut back? Otherwise, I wouldn't worry!0
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My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow. Take a look at the constituents of bovine milk vs. human milk. It is pretty interesting. Is it the best thing to use dairy products formulated for a species so vastly different from our own? That is what makes me wonder. Of course, not when I eat my appropriate serving of Ben & Jerry's ice cream!
Edited to add: be wary when using the UDSA to evaluate meat and milk. The USDA's mission (at least one of them) is to promote our over-consumption of meat and dairy. That is why our food pyramids, for so long, has pushed meat, dairy, and cheese as particularly healthy. They are all loaded with saturated fats! There is a really good study out there about dairy, but I don't have my notes in front of me. I think it was the Nurses Heart research study or something like that. Try googling it. It is a real an eye opener about dairy.
And honey is food intended for bees. Should we avoid it then?0 -
Help a man out. Are there any legitimate dairy concerns, backed by a consensus of good research?
Unless you have an intolerance, no. I haven't seen anything beyond alarmism and agenda-pushing.
^ This. The arguments against dairy seem to range from the mildly amusing to the truly laughable.
Agreed ^^^^0 -
That's cool, I didn't know there were multiple mutant alleles. (One source I just googled says there are 4 known.)Anyway, whether you find that kind of thing interesting or not, the ability to digest lactose is quite closely tied to ethnic origin (although it's not 100% because of gene flow and archaic genes sticking around) so if your ancestors over the last few thousand years were dairy farmers or herders, chances are you can digest dairy just fine, and there's no reason to avoid it. If your ancestors from this time period didn't have anything to do with dairy, then there's a high probability that you can't digest dairy and in that case you should avoid it. But usually people who are lactose intolerant know about it without being told this information due to getting sick when they eat dairy.
I'm lactose intolerant, but I just use lactose-free milk. Problem solved. Technology for the win! (Same for my 3 year old who has been lactose intolerant since before 1 year old.)
1- An udder is not the sort of thing capable of having intentions. And 2- baby cows eat/drink nothing but milk. If adult humans were living on a diet of nothing but cow milk that might be a more valid concern.My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow.0 -
My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow. Take a look at the constituents of bovine milk vs. human milk. It is pretty interesting. Is it the best thing to use dairy products formulated for a species so vastly different from our own? That is what makes me wonder. Of course, not when I eat my appropriate serving of Ben & Jerry's ice cream!
Edited to add: be wary when using the UDSA to evaluate meat and milk. The USDA's mission (at least one of them) is to promote our over-consumption of meat and dairy. That is why our food pyramids, for so long, has pushed meat, dairy, and cheese as particularly healthy. They are all loaded with saturated fats! There is a really good study out there about dairy, but I don't have my notes in front of me. I think it was the Nurses Heart research study or something like that. Try googling it. It is a real an eye opener about dairy.
And honey is food intended for bees. Should we avoid it then?
Inter-species food theft is serious business! Think of the baby bees!0 -
a dairy cow ran over my wife and slept with my cat.
so, i'm opposed to dairy.
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That's just downright logical. How dare you bring logic into a MFP forum. Be prepared, the dairy industry plants are about to try and discredit you......My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow. Take a look at the constituents of bovine milk vs. human milk. It is pretty interesting. Is it the best thing to use dairy products formulated for a species so vastly different from our own? That is what makes me wonder. Of course, not when I eat my appropriate serving of Ben & Jerry's ice cream!
Edited to add: be wary when using the UDSA to evaluate meat and milk. The USDA's mission (at least one of them) is to promote our over-consumption of meat and dairy. That is why our food pyramids, for so long, has pushed meat, dairy, and cheese as particularly healthy. They are all loaded with saturated fats! There is a really good study out there about dairy, but I don't have my notes in front of me. I think it was the Nurses Heart research study or something like that. Try googling it. It is a real an eye opener about dairy.0 -
Why not try a month without dairy, and decide for yourself?
Why? If there is no scientifically justifiable reason not to, why bother?0 -
That's just downright logical. How dare you bring logic into a MFP forum. Be prepared, the dairy industry plants are about to try and discredit you......My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow. Take a look at the constituents of bovine milk vs. human milk. It is pretty interesting. Is it the best thing to use dairy products formulated for a species so vastly different from our own? That is what makes me wonder. Of course, not when I eat my appropriate serving of Ben & Jerry's ice cream!
Edited to add: be wary when using the UDSA to evaluate meat and milk. The USDA's mission (at least one of them) is to promote our over-consumption of meat and dairy. That is why our food pyramids, for so long, has pushed meat, dairy, and cheese as particularly healthy. They are all loaded with saturated fats! There is a really good study out there about dairy, but I don't have my notes in front of me. I think it was the Nurses Heart research study or something like that. Try googling it. It is a real an eye opener about dairy.
you are the most ... person on this entire site.0 -
Maybe this has been around for a very long time, but I am starting to notice that many people regard milk and dairy as unhealthy. Considering that I do consume quite a bit of dairy, I spent a little time digging for information on why dairy is so bad for me.
With a quick web search, one can find numerous supposed reasons that dairy is terrible for you. However, after looking into many of the reasons, I feel that there is little to no scientific reason for me to avoid dairy. Everything seemed to either be a complete joke or at best lacking good support.
Help a man out. Are there any legitimate dairy concerns, backed by a consensus of good research?
My late husband dealt with prostate cancer for 13 years. I remember a lecture we attended at Georgetown Hospital's Lombardi Cancer Center in Washington, D.C. My husband's oncologist was one of the speakers. He said during the lecture that diet appears to play a large part in prostate cancer. Men who eat a diet heavy in red meat and dairy get the disease at far higher rates than men who eat a diet with fish, vegetable protein like beans, and no dairy. Men in countries with the fish/veg/no dairy diet get prostate cancer at the same rate as men in the west when they move to countries like the United States and adopt a western style diet. Yes, studies were mentioned at the lecture, but I attended it years ago and don't have that information.0 -
I've heard a lot of the arguments against dairy milk, and I think some of them make sense. But I'm not so sure. So I started drinking less dairy milk. Instead of 3 to 5 cups daily, I now drink 1.5 cups in my morning smoothie. I then drink almond milk, coconut milk and soy milk the rest of the day.
Note: Soy milk was supposed to be good for you until it was supposed to be bad for you but now it's supposed to be good for you again unless maybe you're a female in which case it might still be bad for you. Unless it's not.
I don't want to drink too much of a bad thing. I would rather drink a little bit of a bad thing here and a little bit of a bad thing there.
Another note: The argument that dairy milk was intended for baby cows does make some sense to me, and that gets compounded when you consider the treatment of factory farmed animals. What I'm not clear on is coconut milk. Was my coconut milk supposed to go to baby coconuts?0 -
That's just downright logical. How dare you bring logic into a MFP forum. Be prepared, the dairy industry plants are about to try and discredit you......My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow. Take a look at the constituents of bovine milk vs. human milk. It is pretty interesting. Is it the best thing to use dairy products formulated for a species so vastly different from our own? That is what makes me wonder. Of course, not when I eat my appropriate serving of Ben & Jerry's ice cream!
Edited to add: be wary when using the UDSA to evaluate meat and milk. The USDA's mission (at least one of them) is to promote our over-consumption of meat and dairy. That is why our food pyramids, for so long, has pushed meat, dairy, and cheese as particularly healthy. They are all loaded with saturated fats! There is a really good study out there about dairy, but I don't have my notes in front of me. I think it was the Nurses Heart research study or something like that. Try googling it. It is a real an eye opener about dairy.
you are the most ridiculous person on this entire site.
Nice. I'll be sending you a friend request soon. Please hold your breath in the meantime.0 -
I've heard a lot of the arguments against dairy milk, and I think some of them make sense. But I'm not so sure. So I started drinking less dairy milk. Instead of 3 to 5 cups daily, I now drink 1.5 cups in my morning smoothie. I then drink almond milk, coconut milk and soy milk the rest of the day.
Note: Soy milk was supposed to be good for you until it was supposed to be bad for you but now it's supposed to be good for you again unless maybe you're a female in which case it might still be bad for you. Unless it's not.
I don't want to drink too much of a bad thing. I would rather drink a little bit of a bad thing here and a little bit of a bad thing there.
Another note: The argument that dairy milk was intended for baby cows does make some sense to me, and that gets compounded when you consider the treatment of factory farmed animals. What I'm not clear on is coconut milk. Was my coconut milk supposed to go to baby coconuts?
I love chocolate soy milk, but discovered I can't digest it. Apparently that's a big problem for a lot of people.
Almond milk is low calorie but doesn't have the protein of dairy -- it's okay if you just want some liquid on your cereal, etc.
I don't have problems digesting dairy milk, but stopped drinking it because Georgetown Hospital doctors said a longterm diet raised your cancer risk (detailed in my post above).
I also agree with the baby cow statements -- dairy contains hormones intended for animals, plus I don't like the way factory farm animals are treated. I don't have to consume dairy. There are plenty of other foods out there.0 -
Well said, Jim. That comment didn't even show up on my end; whoever it was who said that is already on my ignore list. Gee, i wonder why....
you are the most ridiculous person on this entire site.
Nice. I'll be sending you a friend request soon. Please hold your breath in the meantime.0 -
My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow.
This is why my family has invested in a lactating chimp. More genetic similarities and all.
Kidding, obviously.
I seriously don't get this idea that natural items used for food are designed for a particular purpose or not. Just because cow milk is suited for the nutritional needs of a baby cow says nothing about whether it also fits human nutritional needs. My avatar's nutritional needs are well met with poultry, but that doesn't mean that poultry was designed for cats to eat and not humans (or "designed" to be nutrition at all, really). People mostly seem to do this with milk, and I don't get it.
Anyway, as others have said, lots of people have issues, physical or ethical, with dairy and so they probably shouldn't drink milk. Since I don't (ancestors from NW Europe, so not surprising), I don't see why I shouldn't.0 -
I've heard a lot of the arguments against dairy milk, and I think some of them make sense. But I'm not so sure. So I started drinking less dairy milk. Instead of 3 to 5 cups daily, I now drink 1.5 cups in my morning smoothie. I then drink almond milk, coconut milk and soy milk the rest of the day.
Note: Soy milk was supposed to be good for you until it was supposed to be bad for you but now it's supposed to be good for you again unless maybe you're a female in which case it might still be bad for you. Unless it's not.
I don't want to drink too much of a bad thing. I would rather drink a little bit of a bad thing here and a little bit of a bad thing there.
Another note: The argument that dairy milk was intended for baby cows does make some sense to me, and that gets compounded when you consider the treatment of factory farmed animals. What I'm not clear on is coconut milk. Was my coconut milk supposed to go to baby coconuts?
I love chocolate soy milk, but discovered I can't digest it. Apparently that's a big problem for a lot of people.
Almond milk is low calorie but doesn't have the protein of dairy -- it's okay if you just want some liquid on your cereal, etc.
I don't have problems digesting dairy milk, but stopped drinking it because Georgetown Hospital doctors said a longterm diet raised your cancer risk (detailed in my post above).
I also agree with the baby cow statements -- dairy contains hormones intended for animals, plus I don't like the way factory farm animals are treated. I don't have to consume dairy. There are plenty of other foods out there.
You and I have similar opinions and see similar drawbacks. The difference seems to be that you went further with the info than I did.
Last year I read that the typical American diet requires the slaughter of 100 animals annually. That bothered me. It took a while for me to take action, but I eventually tried a vegan lifestyle. That lasted just a little over 3 months, and then I started adding meat and dairy back in to my diet. My diet is now mostly whole food plant based. I eat much less meat and dairy than I did a year ago.
If 100 animals were dying annually on my behalf before, it's probably only about 30 animals now. I try not to think about the 30 animals. I think instead of the 70 animals I'm saving each year.0 -
This is why my family has invested in a lactating chimp. More genetic similarities and all.
My brain knows this is a joke, but my stomach (which is getting over a bug) feels more like ...
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Oh, come on, why is the milk of one species good, but the other invokes the immediate response of disgust?
This is why my family has invested in a lactating chimp. More genetic similarities and all.
My brain knows this is a joke, but my stomach (which is getting over a bug) feels more like ...0 -
My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow. Take a look at the constituents of bovine milk vs. human milk. It is pretty interesting. Is it the best thing to use dairy products formulated for a species so vastly different from our own?
I'm an extended breastfeeding mom, going on 23 months with this kiddo, and to be honest, people would have the same issues with human breastmilk if it were used in foods as they do with cow, sheep, goat, buffalo, and any other kind of animal milk. Some people are repulsed that I'm nursing a child who walks, talks, and has a full set of teeth because apparently breastmilk is only for teeny tiny babies.
Most, if not all, of the things we eat in this world (save breastmilk) were not formulated specifically for us, that doesn't necessarily make consuming them a bad thing. If someone doesn't want to eat dairy, that's fine, I just don't see any validity in the "not for humans" claims that people make from their soapboxes.*
*Not you, I know that you were contributing a thought to the discussion and not being preachy.0 -
Maybe this has been around for a very long time, but I am starting to notice that many people regard milk and dairy as unhealthy. Considering that I do consume quite a bit of dairy, I spent a little time digging for information on why dairy is so bad for me.
With a quick web search, one can find numerous supposed reasons that dairy is terrible for you. However, after looking into many of the reasons, I feel that there is little to no scientific reason for me to avoid dairy. Everything seemed to either be a complete joke or at best lacking good support.
Help a man out. Are there any legitimate dairy concerns, backed by a consensus of good research?
Legitimate concerns ==> lactose intolerance, milk allergy, simply don't like the taste
I don't drink milk and never had must to the dismay of my doctor when I was expecting. All the kids were born healthy without the benefit of cow's milk during pregnancy and all are lactose intolerant. I am lactose intolerant but can tolerate some cheeses and yogurt without a problem. Hard cheeses are least problematic. As far as alarmism, you can find that with just about anything you eat although there is more research supporting that alarm with some foods than others.0 -
Oh, come on, why is the milk of one species good, but the other invokes the immediate response of disgust?
This is why my family has invested in a lactating chimp. More genetic similarities and all.
My brain knows this is a joke, but my stomach (which is getting over a bug) feels more like ...
I apologize if I've offended your delicate sensibilities. If you enjoy chimp milk, by all means, please continue to do so, I give you my blessing (which is to say, lighten up, I never intended to disparage the chimp-milking industry... the juxtaposition of lactating and chimp makes my primitive, unenlightened stomach do flip-flops after 48 hours of constant nausea).
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